Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

[TeamTragic]

Wall is owed 4 years/140 mil. If we could include Knight and Dudley it would like signing him to a 4 year/110 mil deal which I would do. He’s not perfect but would be great for Booker and Ayton. The question would be how comfortable would we be giving up picks because we’re not unloading salary on Washington without them.

I would do that trade in a heartbeat. Wizards have to be rebuilding though.

[DirtyDez]

Wall is owed 4 years/140 mil. If we could include Knight and Dudley it would like signing him to a 4 year/110 mil deal which I would do. He’s not perfect but would be great for Booker and Ayton. The question would be how comfortable would we be giving up picks because we’re not unloading salary on Washington without them.

I would do that trade in a heartbeat. Wizards have to be rebuilding though.

The Wizards are still over 100 mil in salaries two years from now so they’ll need relief. Wall is still on his original deal so Knight works straight up before his deal blows up. I would trade #16 and the Bucks pick for sure (I value #31 over the MIL pick).

[MathiasPW]

Wall is owed 4 years/140 mil. If we could include Knight and Dudley it would like signing him to a 4 year/110 mil deal which I would do. He’s not perfect but would be great for Booker and Ayton. The question would be how comfortable would we be giving up picks because we’re not unloading salary on Washington without them.

I would do that trade in a heartbeat. Wizards have to be rebuilding though.

The Wizards are still over 100 mil in salaries two years from now so they’ll need relief. Wall is still on his original deal so Knight works straight up before his deal blows up. I would trade #16 and the Bucks pick for sure (I value #31 over the MIL pick).

First, Wall is owed 4 years at 140M AFTER the next season, where he still makes 20M only. So even if you discount Knight and Dudley from that amount, you still have 3 years where his cap hit is higher than 40M per, which effectively kills our chances to do anything else with the team. Too risky for a team we still haven't seen playing to know how much tuning it may need.

[bwgood77]

I would do that trade in a heartbeat. Wizards have to be rebuilding though.

The Wizards are still over 100 mil in salaries two years from now so they’ll need relief. Wall is still on his original deal so Knight works straight up before his deal blows up. I would trade #16 and the Bucks pick for sure (I value #31 over the MIL pick).

First, Wall is owed 4 years at 140M AFTER the next season, where he still makes 20M only. So even if you discount Knight and Dudley from that amount, you still have 3 years where his cap hit is higher than 40M per, which effectively kills our chances to do anything else with the team. Too risky for a team we still haven't seen playing to know how much tuning it may need.

It's 4 years $170 million AFTER next season

Approximately:

19-20 - $37.8 million
20-21 - $40.8 million
21-22 - $44.1 million
22-23 - $47.6 million

This is NOT including the 15% trade kicker, however that works.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/wizards/2017/07/22/john-wall-agrees-four-year-170-million-contract-extension/501656001/

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-john-wall-wizards-agree-on-207-million-extension-through-2023/

[DirtyDez]

The Wizards are still over 100 mil in salaries two years from now so they’ll need relief. Wall is still on his original deal so Knight works straight up before his deal blows up. I would trade #16 and the Bucks pick for sure (I value #31 over the MIL pick).

First, Wall is owed 4 years at 140M AFTER the next season, where he still makes 20M only. So even if you discount Knight and Dudley from that amount, you still have 3 years where his cap hit is higher than 40M per, which effectively kills our chances to do anything else with the team. Too risky for a team we still haven't seen playing to know how much tuning it may need.

It's 4 years $170 million AFTER next season

Approximately:

19-20 - $37.8 million
20-21 - $40.8 million
21-22 - $44.1 million
22-23 - $47.6 million

This is NOT including the 15% trade kicker, however that works.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/wizards/2017/07/22/john-wall-agrees-four-year-170-million-contract-extension/501656001/

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-john-wall-wizards-agree-on-207-million-extension-through-2023/

Wow hoopshype salary page wouldn’t load past 2022. Forget that idea lol.

[JMac1]

The Wizards are still over 100 mil in salaries two years from now so they’ll need relief. Wall is still on his original deal so Knight works straight up before his deal blows up. I would trade #16 and the Bucks pick for sure (I value #31 over the MIL pick).

First, Wall is owed 4 years at 140M AFTER the next season, where he still makes 20M only. So even if you discount Knight and Dudley from that amount, you still have 3 years where his cap hit is higher than 40M per, which effectively kills our chances to do anything else with the team. Too risky for a team we still haven't seen playing to know how much tuning it may need.

It's 4 years $170 million AFTER next season

Approximately:

19-20 - $37.8 million
20-21 - $40.8 million
21-22 - $44.1 million
22-23 - $47.6 million

This is NOT including the 15% trade kicker, however that works.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/wizards/2017/07/22/john-wall-agrees-four-year-170-million-contract-extension/501656001/

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-john-wall-wizards-agree-on-207-million-extension-through-2023/

For that guy.....? That’s what happens when you have more money than you need, just give it away.

[bwgood77]

First, Wall is owed 4 years at 140M AFTER the next season, where he still makes 20M only. So even if you discount Knight and Dudley from that amount, you still have 3 years where his cap hit is higher than 40M per, which effectively kills our chances to do anything else with the team. Too risky for a team we still haven't seen playing to know how much tuning it may need.

It's 4 years $170 million AFTER next season

Approximately:

19-20 - $37.8 million
20-21 - $40.8 million
21-22 - $44.1 million
22-23 - $47.6 million

This is NOT including the 15% trade kicker, however that works.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/wizards/2017/07/22/john-wall-agrees-four-year-170-million-contract-extension/501656001/

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-john-wall-wizards-agree-on-207-million-extension-through-2023/

Wow hoopshype salary page wouldn’t load past 2022. Forget that idea lol.

Last year is player option but I'm sure he takes it. That's why I would take Conley first...a lot less money and ends a couple years earlier (player option in 20-21 for $34 million).

However I don't expect Conley to be dealt.

[Dr Manute]

1) Zhaire Smith
2) Devin Booker
3) Josh Jackoson
4) Luka Doncic
5) Dragon Bender

[WeekapaugGroove]

1) Zhaire Smith
2) Devin Booker
3) Josh Jackoson
4) Luka Doncic
5) Dragon Bender

That would be a tremendously weird yet fascinating lineup.

[thamadkant]

Suns NEED to sign or trade for a star in any case to maximise their cap space and take advantage of signing their Bird rights players.


If 33 year old Paul is demanding 35 million a year and potentially 46 million as a 38 year old...

I would rather have that money on a younger player like Wall who could even elevate more of his game under a free flowing offense.

[bwgood77]

Just because Paul might get vastly overpaid it doesn't mean I want the Suns to vastly overpay Wall. That's ridiculous.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If Houston goes into cost cutting mode to keep Paul and Capella I would inquire about Eric Gordon. He might have enough playmaking to share a backcourt with Booker and you would also stagger their minutes some and play them with real PG off the bench.


On the Wall topic; it's an insane contract but to me it would really come down to if Sarver is willing to pay the lux tax a couple of years from now. If he is then hey why not it's his money.

[bwgood77]

I just realized this was old after reading it (he just retweeted it), but it's pretty interesting...some interesting stuff about what people leak and why..

Read on Twitter

This was especially funny...

One example of so-called “foul play” is rather humorous and well-known among league circles. Years ago, an executive believed that he had the necessary pieces to acquire Amar’e Stoudemire from the Phoenix Suns. He wanted to trade for Stoudemire and then flip him to another team because he felt he could get more in return for Stoudemire than Phoenix could. He started calling teams to ask what they’d be willing to trade him if he could get Stoudemire. Well, he accidentally called the Suns and asked what they’d be willing to give up if he could acquire Stoudemire… from the Suns. He offered Phoenix their own player. Needless to say, that executive did not acquire Stoudemire.

[Kerrsed]

I just realized this was old after reading it (he just retweeted it), but it's pretty interesting...some interesting stuff about what people leak and why..

Read on Twitter

This was especially funny...

One example of so-called “foul play” is rather humorous and well-known among league circles. Years ago, an executive believed that he had the necessary pieces to acquire Amar’e Stoudemire from the Phoenix Suns. He wanted to trade for Stoudemire and then flip him to another team because he felt he could get more in return for Stoudemire than Phoenix could. He started calling teams to ask what they’d be willing to trade him if he could get Stoudemire. Well, he accidentally called the Suns and asked what they’d be willing to give up if he could acquire Stoudemire… from the Suns. He offered Phoenix their own player. Needless to say, that executive did not acquire Stoudemire.

Such a great article. Probably Alex Kennedy's best. I remember when he first started back on Hoopsworld (Before it was sold and all the writers created BasketballInsiders.com). He looked like a 13 year old and his articles were straight trash. Nice to see him stepping it up.

[lilfishi22]

Chris Paul asking for max contract. WOW.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1712109

There should be multiple bans handed out in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1709523

Comparatively, Wall's almost untouchable deal almost looks like a bargain next to CP3's max deal

[thamadkant]

Just because Paul might get vastly overpaid it doesn't mean I want the Suns to vastly overpay Wall. That's ridiculous.

Wall is an all star a legit 20 point 10 assists 5 rebound 2 steals with an improved shot type of player.


With the way the max is structured players like him will get 150 million max contracts either way.


If suns want to compete they need game changers.


You want to bring in talent to lock up in contracts as well as signing your drafted players.



You want Conley... Sure... He's good. But Wall is better by all accounts and he's younger. So in my opinion although Wall has longer contract he is younger and is worth that extra years because he will be productive until that last year.




Better to be "stuck" with an All Star player at max money than someone like Aaron Gordon at 75% of that value since he's no way near as good as Wall.

[BobbieL]

If Houston goes into cost cutting mode to keep Paul and Capella I would inquire about Eric Gordon. He might have enough playmaking to share a backcourt with Booker and you would also stagger their minutes some and play them with real PG off the bench.


On the Wall topic; it's an insane contract but to me it would really come down to if Sarver is willing to pay the lux tax a couple of years from now. If he is then hey why not it's his money.

I just think the Wall deal is horrible.

Now Post 7/1, Gordon straight up works or better yet, Gordon and Tucker for Daniels

[lilfishi22]

Random question but what kind of contract would TJ Warren be looking at if he were a RFA this summer? I guess probably somewhere around the 12 per he got with the Suns but maybe not in this depressed market and considering with his lack of outside shooting he's not the most seamless guy to slide into any lineup.

I don't really see it buying significantly more than what he got if he got more. $12m per is about right for a guy who doesn't stretch the floor and can't really create his own shot (consistently). But at his level of production and efficiency, it's about right.

[lilfishi22]

The Wizards are still over 100 mil in salaries two years from now so they’ll need relief. Wall is still on his original deal so Knight works straight up before his deal blows up. I would trade #16 and the Bucks pick for sure (I value #31 over the MIL pick).

First, Wall is owed 4 years at 140M AFTER the next season, where he still makes 20M only. So even if you discount Knight and Dudley from that amount, you still have 3 years where his cap hit is higher than 40M per, which effectively kills our chances to do anything else with the team. Too risky for a team we still haven't seen playing to know how much tuning it may need.

It's 4 years $170 million AFTER next season

Approximately:

19-20 - $37.8 million
20-21 - $40.8 million
21-22 - $44.1 million
22-23 - $47.6 million

This is NOT including the 15% trade kicker, however that works.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/wizards/2017/07/22/john-wall-agrees-four-year-170-million-contract-extension/501656001/

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-john-wall-wizards-agree-on-207-million-extension-through-2023/

Trade kicker only 'kicks in' if you can fit it under a rising cap. So without the cap rising by 15%, he'll never get the full kicker and I believe it's the Wizards who are on the books, not us. If Wall doesn't get the full 15% trade kicker, he can elect not to waive the kicker which would effectively be a no-trade clause.

[lilfishi22]

Just because Paul might get vastly overpaid it doesn't mean I want the Suns to vastly overpay Wall. That's ridiculous.

Wall is an all star a legit 20 point 10 assists 5 rebound 2 steals with an improved shot type of player.


With the way the max is structured players like him will get 150 million max contracts either way.


If suns want to compete they need game changers.


You want to bring in talent to lock up in contracts as well as signing your drafted players.



You want Conley... Sure... He's good. But Wall is better by all accounts and he's younger. So in my opinion although Wall has longer contract he is younger and is worth that extra years because he will be productive until that last year.




Better to be "stuck" with an All Star player at max money than someone like Aaron Gordon at 75% of that value since he's no way near as good as Wall.

His issue isn't production. It's the length of his deal and his health. The guy has already had surgery on both knees prior to the 16-17 season

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/timeline-john-walls-injury-history-washington-wizards

With his play style, I'm not comfortable in paying the guy nearly $47m 5 seasons from now.