Dennis Schroder thoughts?

[Pacers_Freak]

Would you guys do the following deal:

Collison, Leaf, 23, 50 for Schröder, 19, 30

Not unless I could swap Schroder to another team and pick up some minor assets. I like Collion he's been a good player for us, he's a great shooter and he takes care of the ball, doesn't make a lot of TO's. Assists to TO ratio is 4.4 to 1 and he gets more steals than TO's in a game.

The biggest issues with Schroder is that battery charge and that he cannot shoot. His play reminds me of Monta Ellis. He's small and makes a lot of TO's, can't shoot and facing a battery charge. So no unless I can flip him and I wouldn't want to give up DC to do it.

How about:

Atlanta gets: Al Jefferson, 23 and DJ Augustin
Orlando gets: Schroder and #50 plus $4 million to buy out Al.
Indana gets: Jonathon Simmons, 19, 33 and 35.

Atlanta gets out of Schroders contract, buys out big Al, gets a replacement for DS and only moves down 4 spots and gives up the 33rd pick.

Orlando gets Schroder who might help them for Augustine and Simmons and #35. They get out of DJ's deal which has 2 more years.

The Pacers pick up Simmons to help at SF, move up 4 spots and get 2 early 2nds. Pacers draft Kyrie Thomas, Bates-Diop and Chimezie Metu. The cost is $4 million to buy out Al and #50.

Seems a little advantageous for us. We trade big Al, move up 4 sports, get 2 high 2nds, and Simmons? Don't think that flies.

[Ruaidri]

How about this trade:

Schroder, Plumlee, 3th pick for
Turner, Leaf, Pothrys, Collisson, Jefferson.

Salarywise it works.
Atlanta gets 3 young players who are used to a winning culture, a starting point guard that doesn't need to be the star in Collisson and they can get shed some salary with Jefferson.

Indiana gets a better point guard, in the same age as Oladipo. The third pick. with the third pick I would select Porter or Doncic

Line-up
Schroder, Joseph
Oladipo, Stephenson
draftee, Bogdanovic
Young, Booker
Sabonis, PLumlee.

I don't believe that Turner will get much better than he is now. Turner for third pick seems right to me. Schroder for a couple of youngster plus a good veteran pg. Plumlee for Jefferson, saves Atlanta money.

[basketballwacko2]

How about this trade:

Schroder, Plumlee, 3th pick for
Turner, Leaf, Pothrys, Collisson, Jefferson.

Salarywise it works.
Atlanta gets 3 young players who are used to a winning culture, a starting point guard that doesn't need to be the star in Collisson and they can get shed some salary with Jefferson.

Indiana gets a better point guard, in the same age as Oladipo. The third pick. with the third pick I would select Porter or Doncic

Line-up
Schroder, Joseph
Oladipo, Stephenson
draftee, Bogdanovic
Young, Booker
Sabonis, PLumlee.

I don't believe that Turner will get much better than he is now. Turner for third pick seems right to me. Schroder for a couple of youngster plus a good veteran pg. Plumlee for Jefferson, saves Atlanta money.

Welcome to the Pacers board! But No! We don't want Schroder, as long as he's facing criminal charges in the beating case.

[Topofthekey]

How about this trade:

Schroder, Plumlee, 3th pick for
Turner, Leaf, Pothrys, Collisson, Jefferson

I'd take that trade and run

The 3rd pick has a shot at Doncic, but I would look to trade down a few spots to pick up Mo Bamba + spare value instead

Bamba doesn't have 3pt range like Myles does, but he looks like he's going to be a stronger defensive player; I'm salivating at the prospect of having a 3 man rotation of Bamba-Thad-Domas at the C-PF positions, that combination should give Pacers plenty of hustle and defensive grit, no more being bullied inside

Pacers would still have enough trade assets in Schroder/cap space(Bojan)/#23/spare value picked up from trading down to further upgrade the roster

[Pacers_Freak]

How about this trade:

Schroder, Plumlee, 3th pick for
Turner, Leaf, Pothrys, Collisson, Jefferson

I'd take that trade and run

The 3rd pick has a shot at Doncic, but I would look to trade down a few spots to pick up Mo Bamba + spare value instead

Bamba doesn't have 3pt range like Myles does, but he looks like he's going to be a stronger defensive player; I'm salivating at the prospect of having a 3 man rotation of Bamba-Thad-Domas at the C-PF positions, that combination should give Pacers plenty of hustle and defensive grit, no more being bullied inside

Pacers would still have enough trade assets in Schroder/cap space(Bojan)/#23/spare value picked up from trading down to further upgrade the roster

First of all no way Atlanta does that trade. Myles contract is due for a big raise and they aren't going to trade away 3 for that return. Secondly, no really interested in Schroeder. Thirdly, if you move up to 3 you stay at 3 and try and get a franchise changing player. Fourthly, where Bamba is a fine player I don't think he is franchise changing therefore I'd stay at 3 in this hypothetical trade that has no chance.

[Cresy06]

I like Schroder more than other people on this board, but I agree he is a reach.
I would put him on the same level as DC, but the difference is, DC is way more effective, while Schroder might just be a better player overall.

A straight up trade DC for Schroder (plus a pick maybe?) is something I would do, just because he fits the timeline better. I think, over time, Schroder still has the potential to be an All-Star caliber player. Plus, he is long and athletic, so he should become better on Defense, once he grows up and becomes more professional (which should be very soon as he is 24 by now).

[Indy4Life]

Let's not put DC and Schroeder on the same page. DC can't even break down Kevin Love or Kyle Korver in an ISO situation. He is a solid spot up shooter, but only takes wide open shots. He doesn't turn the ball over, but he also doesn't make plays.

We need another play maker in this offense that can handle the rock if we are playing the likes of Thad/Myles/Sabonis at the 4/5 who also struggle to create.

[Pacers_Freak]

Let's not put DC and Schroeder on the same page. DC can't even break down Kevin Love or Kyle Korver in an ISO situation. He is a solid spot up shooter, but only takes wide open shots. He doesn't turn the ball over, but he also doesn't make plays.

We need another play maker in this offense that can handle the rock if we are playing the likes of Thad/Myles/Sabonis at the 4/5 who also struggle to create.

Agree with all of your points. The Pacers do need to find another creator. I just don't believe the Schroder is a great fit.

[Wizop]

The Pacers do need to find another creator.

I really dispute that. I think we need another shooter particularly behind Bogie more than a creator. I have hopes for Leaf behind Thad but think we need a wing. I think the shot will be created by other teams doubling Vic not by us having another ball handler.

[Pacers_Freak]

The Pacers do need to find another creator.

I really dispute that. I think we need another shooter particularly behind Bogie more than a creator. I have hopes for Leaf behind Thad but think we need a wing. I think the shot will be created by other teams doubling Vic not by us having another ball handler.

I think we are saying the same thing just differently. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I am not talking about another ball handler necessarily. I think we need someone else that can create their own shot. Someone to take a little pressure off of Vic and more importantly be able to stagger their minutes with Vic so there is always a creator on the floor. If you look at our roster, which I enjoyed watching everyone on the roster, but Vic is the only one that could really create his own shot. Everyone else was dependent on Vic or someone else to get them a shot. I think that is the next step. Finding someone else that the offense can go through at times.

[Indy4Life]

I think we are saying the same thing just differently. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I am not talking about another ball handler necessarily. I think we need someone else that can create their own shot. Someone to take a little pressure off of Vic and more importantly be able to stagger their minutes with Vic so there is always a creator on the floor. If you look at our roster, which I enjoyed watching everyone on the roster, but Vic is the only one that could really create his own shot. Everyone else was dependent on Vic or someone else to get them a shot. I think that is the next step. Finding someone else that the offense can go through at times.

Agreed...it could also be a little better offensive scheme. Dipo and his ability to create really hid a lot of the issues we have seen on offense the past couple of years under Nate. Adding the player next to Dipo who can make teams pay for double the high PNR would have been more than enough to get past Cle.

[Wizop]

I think we are saying the same thing just differently. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I am not talking about another ball handler necessarily. I think we need someone else that can create their own shot.

perhaps it is just a matter of emphasis but I think we need more people who can make their own shot not more people who can dribble themselves open or break down a defense.

could Reggie create a shot? he could get open with his constant movement but that isn't what I normally think of as shot creation. Korver is another example of a shooter who I wouldn't call a shot creator. Seth Curry creates shots. Does Klay Thompson?

Lance can create a shot. I just don't want it to be his own shot. he doesn't hit them often enough. he can get the ball to an open man though as well as anyone can. the problem is that there are too few shooters on our second unit who can nail that shot that Lance creates for them. ultimately we also want a younger 4 who shoots better than Thad.

I hope the plan is to use ball movement and not iso plays to create the shots.

[Pacers_Freak]

I think we are saying the same thing just differently. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I am not talking about another ball handler necessarily. I think we need someone else that can create their own shot.

perhaps it is just a matter of emphasis but I think we need more people who can make their own shot not more people who can dribble themselves open or break down a defense.

could Reggie create a shot? he could get open with his constant movement but that isn't what I normally think of as shot creation. Korver is another example of a shooter who I wouldn't call a shot creator. Seth Curry creates shots. Does Klay Thompson?

Lance can create a shot. I just don't want it to be his own shot. he doesn't hit them often enough. he can get the ball to an open man though as well as anyone can. the problem is that there are too few shooters on our second unit who can nail that shot that Lance creates for them. ultimately we also want a younger 4 who shoots better than Thad.

I hope the plan is to use ball movement and not iso plays to create the shots.

100% with you on not being an ISO offense. Again, I think we are saying the same thing just differently. I'm not necessarily talking about someone dribbling at the top of the key breaking down the defense. Yes Reggie could create his own shot. He's wasn't going to kill you off the bounce but he was very capable of putting the ball on the ground and getting to his spot. Same with Klay. They also both move excellently off the ball, to me that is another way of creating your own shot. Klay will post up smaller defenders on occasion. That is another way. My point was we have too many catch and shoot guys. Even like Bogey.... he doesn't move great without the ball. So it is hard for him to be a catch and shoot creator. You saw our offense when Vic wasn't on the floor. I've seen horror movies that were less scary.

[Tom White]

I hope the plan is to use ball movement and not iso plays to create the shots.

Absolutely! We don't need a player who stops the ball/player movement. The team has been there and done that. This version of the team is much better. Keep everyone involved.

[Tom White]

Even like Bogey.... he doesn't move great without the ball. So it is hard for him to be a catch and shoot creator. You saw our offense when Vic wasn't on the floor. I've seen horror movies that were less scary.

I think Bogey got better at those things as the season went along. He even increased his driving to the basket by quite a bit. Hopefully we see more of that sort of thing this coming year, now that all the guys have had a chance to get more accustomed to each others style/strengths/weaknesses.

[Indy4Life]

While it is easy to look at the NBA and want more passing and less ISO...the comment goes back to what we need from a point guard.

If Darren Collison can take the ball and beat Kyle Korver or Kevin Love off the dribble (regardless of it's for a shot, drive to the hoop, or a kick for an open shot) we win the series vs Cleveland. DC couldn't do that...we need to add another creator on the offense and possibly upgrade this capability at two spots (point and wing).

[Tom White]

While it is easy to look at the NBA and want more passing and less ISO...the comment goes back to what we need from a point guard.

If Darren Collison can take the ball and beat Kyle Korver or Kevin Love off the dribble (regardless of it's for a shot, drive to the hoop, or a kick for an open shot) we win the series vs Cleveland. DC couldn't do that...we need to add another creator on the offense and possibly upgrade this capability at two spots (point and wing).

The narrative that Collison was the sole reason for the loss to the Cavs is simply not true. Certainly he could have played better in different parts of different games, but the very same can be said for EVERY player on the team. Vic, Turner, Sabonis, Thad, Lance and any other player you want to name could have played better at times.

If Vic would have shot better at times we might have won the series. If Myles would have scored more or rebounded better we might have won the series. If Lance would have....well, too many things....better we might have won the series. On and on and on.

My point being, the team wins as a collective.....and also loses as a collective.

[pizza guy]

While it is easy to look at the NBA and want more passing and less ISO...the comment goes back to what we need from a point guard.

If Darren Collison can take the ball and beat Kyle Korver or Kevin Love off the dribble (regardless of it's for a shot, drive to the hoop, or a kick for an open shot) we win the series vs Cleveland. DC couldn't do that...we need to add another creator on the offense and possibly upgrade this capability at two spots (point and wing).

The narrative that Collison was the sole reason for the loss to the Cavs is simply not true. Certainly he could have played better in different parts of different games, but the very same can be said for EVERY player on the team. Vic, Turner, Sabonis, Thad, Lance and any other player you want to name could have played better at times.

If Vic would have shot better at times we might have won the series. If Myles would have scored more or rebounded better we might have won the series. If Lance would have....well, too many things....better we might have won the series. On and on and on.

My point being, the team wins as a collective.....and also loses as a collective.

I don't think anyone wants to place the blame squarely on DC. For one, I don't think DC is enough of a factor to truly shoulder much blame. Which is the problem. We got smoked by Tristan Thompson in Game 7. When LeBron went out with cramps or whatever, we got abused by GHill and Kevin Love. So, there were plenty of other things. But talking about one need doesn't mean we don't see the other needs.

The problem with DC was that he didn't score or create well enough to keep Cleveland from just hounding Oladipo. They attacked Vic's high screen and trapped him near the half-court line, and Vic struggled to get the ball to anyone else - and when he did, they struggled to do anything with it. If Vic had another individual threat to help him out, whether that's at PG or SF or PF, it would've made a big difference.

Obviously the Warriors are in a league of their own, but just look at the closing minutes of last night's game. KD holds the ball up top, Curry comes up to screen, and the defense switches. Because of how incredibly good both of those guys are, the defense attacks them, and Iggy and Draymond each get wide open rolls to the rim, ending with dunks. Sabonis can be an elite roll-man. Myles can be an elite pick-n-pop guy. But DC, Thad, and Bogey are three guys a defense is going to be more or less comfortable to double off of and risk them getting the ball back. Put Kemba, Aaron Gordon, maybe even Tyreke Evans in one of those spots and see how it changes. Those guys are good enough to beat the defense when Vic gets doubled up top, and good enough to catch a pass and immediately make another pass to Domas or Myles.

[Indy4Life]

While it is easy to look at the NBA and want more passing and less ISO...the comment goes back to what we need from a point guard.

If Darren Collison can take the ball and beat Kyle Korver or Kevin Love off the dribble (regardless of it's for a shot, drive to the hoop, or a kick for an open shot) we win the series vs Cleveland. DC couldn't do that...we need to add another creator on the offense and possibly upgrade this capability at two spots (point and wing).

The narrative that Collison was the sole reason for the loss to the Cavs is simply not true. Certainly he could have played better in different parts of different games, but the very same can be said for EVERY player on the team. Vic, Turner, Sabonis, Thad, Lance and any other player you want to name could have played better at times.

If Vic would have shot better at times we might have won the series. If Myles would have scored more or rebounded better we might have won the series. If Lance would have....well, too many things....better we might have won the series. On and on and on.

My point being, the team wins as a collective.....and also loses as a collective.

I don't think anyone wants to place the blame squarely on DC. For one, I don't think DC is enough of a factor to truly shoulder much blame. Which is the problem. We got smoked by Tristan Thompson in Game 7. When LeBron went out with cramps or whatever, we got abused by GHill and Kevin Love. So, there were plenty of other things. But talking about one need doesn't mean we don't see the other needs.

The problem with DC was that he didn't score or create well enough to keep Cleveland from just hounding Oladipo. They attacked Vic's high screen and trapped him near the half-court line, and Vic struggled to get the ball to anyone else - and when he did, they struggled to do anything with it. If Vic had another individual threat to help him out, whether that's at PG or SF or PF, it would've made a big difference.

Obviously the Warriors are in a league of their own, but just look at the closing minutes of last night's game. KD holds the ball up top, Curry comes up to screen, and the defense switches. Because of how incredibly good both of those guys are, the defense attacks them, and Iggy and Draymond each get wide open rolls to the rim, ending with dunks. Sabonis can be an elite roll-man. Myles can be an elite pick-n-pop guy. But DC, Thad, and Bogey are three guys a defense is going to be more or less comfortable to double off of and risk them getting the ball back. Put Kemba, Aaron Gordon, maybe even Tyreke Evans in one of those spots and see how it changes. Those guys are good enough to beat the defense when Vic gets doubled up top, and good enough to catch a pass and immediately make another pass to Domas or Myles.

Well said