Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

[gtn130]

Simmons is great without having a jumper. If he develops a legitimate 3pt shot he will be one of the absolute best players in the league.

Otherwise maybe he’ll top out as a top 15 player, but it really doesn’t matter in the context of the Wizards because the Wizards as they’re currently constructed are not in the same stratosphere as Philly

[payitforward]

I'm not going to delve into the basketball portion of this discussion at this point because I have a bigger point to make:

I'm sorry ---- and this is a part of my mental makeup ---- but I refuse to buy into the idea that there's no hope. Your expressing what I'd call a losers mentality. Maybe it works well in business where the bottom line matters the most but for sports, your analysis and outlook is disappointing and regrettable. Your basically saying what's the point in competing over the next five years? What an awful way to think in terms of competition.

What if the Caps thought like this after losing key pieces in FA and looking like a inferior team compared to last year most of this season?

What if Maryland Baltimore County paid attention to the stats that showed they had a 0.1% chance of beating Virginia?

What if LeBron looked at his Cavs roster and said there's no way i can win the East this year with this bunch?

You do not have a crystal ball. You cannot predict the future. You cannot tell me with 100% certainty that Philadelphia will be better over the next 5 years than the Wizards.

That's why we actually play the game and not determine winners by statistics.

Fair enough. I think I have to accept this criticism. Not, as you say, of the basketball portion, but I don't want to be a downer. & in fact, it's not at all part of my nature. So, you have my apologies, Dat.

That said, I'd like at least to say what my motivation is: I'd like to compete for a title. Hence, when I see people saying that our players are better than they are, or whatever of that kind, what it tells me is that we're willing to put off contending in order to have a better opinion of our own team than is warranted.

I remember in Ted's famous -- or should I now call it "infamous" -- ten point plan he said something like "when you see that you can't contend, don't fool yourself or hesitate: rebuild."

So that's where I'm coming from. But, of course, I don't have to insist on that POV at all times or belabor it. I'll try to do better. Thanks for pointing it out, dat.

I appreciate it sir. Now I'd happily dive into the b-ball portion of the argument..

For Ben Simmons, less than 4% of his shots were beyond 16 ft. He made 0 3pt's on the year. This is not a "LeBron needing to work on his shot type of example". This is MKG level stuff - the guy needs to start from scratch. Anything beyond a layup is a push shot. That's woefully inadequate for a star level prospect. He's potentially wonderful at everything else but a being a complete non-shooter throws a significant wrench in his ceiling. To get better than he is right now, that shot has to become passable and were a long way from that.

For Embiid... as I mentioned earlier, his future impact has little do with his development as much as it has to do with his ability and willingness to defend Gs on switches on defense. He struggled with it against Miami & Boston. It muted his impact in both series. Embiid is a wonderfully talented 7-0 footer. He's also a massive guy. Being quick enough at his size to guard smaller players is a major challenge that teams will continue to try to exploit.

McConnell is a backup PG. Nothing more. His future in Philly is likely tied to whether Fultz gets it together or not. Holmes is interesting but as mentioned, he's not even a rotation guy for them so it's hard to see him as guy to worry about yet.

We've differed about McConnell before, haven't we? I don't know why it's hard for you appreciate him. He's not a star & he's not going to be one. He's not a scorer & he's not going to be one. But he is so solid at everything else that he's a very very valuable player indeed. & a valuable asset. Ditto Holmes. We don't have comparable players & certainly not comparable trade assets.

Simmons is kind of a mega-version of what I just wrote about McConnell. Yes, if he develops a jump shot he'll be much better. & in a way that's what is so amazing about him: as a rookie, & w/o a jump shot, he was in the very top handful of PGs in the league. Replace him with an average PG last year, & they likely win ten or a dozen fewer games.

As to the Fulz fiasco, we better all thank our lucky stars that Brian Colangelo is such a plodder. Imagine if they'd wound up with Tatum. Yikes!

Overall, the point is that it was no fluke that Philly won 52 games, & they are obviously only going to get better over the next few years (barring injury). Their current players will get better. They have draft picks coming, including a high one, they have valuable trade assets, & they have no salary problems any time soon.

In a way, I wonder whether they could trade Embiid to Phoenix for the #1 pick. They wouldn't match Embiid's talent w/ Ayton, but he does look to be very very good. It would off-load the only salary they have that could conceivably interfere w/ their success (e.g. if Embiid had a serious injury). It would be a weird thing to do, & I don't imagine it'll happen. But I wonder whether Phoenix would go for that deal.

Anyway... w/ whatever problems Embiid has (switching) & Simmons has (shooting), there isn't single team in the NBA that wouldn't want either of them. In the case of Simmons, if you just look at 1s, 2s & 3s how many players in the league right now are better than he is? Factor in that he did all this as a rookie (not to mention his rookie salary!).... Wow.

[prime1time]

Simmons is great without having a jumper. If he develops a legitimate 3pt shot he will be one of the absolute best players in the league.

Otherwise maybe he’ll top out as a top 15 player, but it really doesn’t matter in the context of the Wizards because the Wizards as they’re currently constructed are not in the same stratosphere as Philly

No he is not great without a jumper. They are able to hide his deficiencies now by putting him at the 1 and keeping the ball in his hands, but as the team improves and they get secondary scorers, his inability to shoot the ball we become a major liability. Maybe not in the regular season, but good defensive teams in the playoffs will make the 76ers pay for having him on the court. And this talk that he can just "develop" a 3 point shot is silly. Dude was 2nd to last in ft percentage Give me one example of a player who was that bad at ft's who eventually developed a consistent 3-point shot. Simmons will likely struggle to make open jumpers his entire career.

[DCZards]

No he is not great without a jumper. They are able to hide his deficiencies now by putting him at the 1 and keeping the ball in his hands, but as the team improves and they get secondary scorers, his inability to shoot the ball we become a major liability. Maybe not in the regular season, but good defensive teams in the playoffs will make the 76ers pay for having him on the court. And this talk that he can just "develop" a 3 point shot is silly. Dude was 2nd to last in ft percentage Give me one example of a player who was that bad at ft's who eventually developed a consistent 3-point shot. Simmons will likely struggle to make open jumpers his entire career.

Yup...Simmons horrific shooting could prevent a very good player from becoming a great player. For his sake, I hope Simmons is able to significantly improve his outside shooting...but like you I'm skeptical.

[payitforward]

No he is not great without a jumper. They are able to hide his deficiencies now by putting him at the 1 and keeping the ball in his hands, but as the team improves and they get secondary scorers, his inability to shoot the ball we become a major liability. Maybe not in the regular season, but good defensive teams in the playoffs will make the 76ers pay for having him on the court. And this talk that he can just "develop" a 3 point shot is silly. Dude was 2nd to last in ft percentage Give me one example of a player who was that bad at ft's who eventually developed a consistent 3-point shot. Simmons will likely struggle to make open jumpers his entire career.

Yup...Simmons horrific shooting could prevent a very good player from becoming a great player. For his sake, I hope Simmons is able to significantly improve his outside shooting...but like you I'm skeptical.

No. It could prevent one of the best rookies in history from becoming one of the best players in history. Or at least make it harder for him to do it.

I really wonder how you think the Sixers managed to go from 10 wins to 52 wins in a single season. As Dat will confirm, it wasn't T.J. McConnell who made it happen! Or maybe you think that Embiid was responsible for the 42 extra wins -- by playing 1100 more minutes.

If we just look at 1s, 2s & 3s, Ben Simmons was in the top handful of players in the league. As a rookie. W/ a broken jump shot.

This is not ballet, & it's not gymnastics either. Simmons TS% was a little below average for a PG. Everything else he did was off the charts great.

As to his shooting, this year Bradley Beal managed a TS% that exactly .07% better than Ben Simmons. His rookie TS% was 5 percentage points worse than Simmons. In his entire career, John Wall has come within 2 percentage points of Simmons rookie TS% exactly once.

I think everybody here knows that Otto Porter is one of my favorite players -- not just on the Wizards but in the league. He had a terrific year, but he wasn't the equal of Ben Simmons as a rookie. For that matter, Jayson Tatum wasn't in a class with Simmons -- good as his rookie year was.

It's one thing to blow endlessly in the balloon of players b/c they are Wizards -- we're all fans. But failing to recognize greatness... or worse yet wanting to deny it, so that heaven forbid it doesn't put one of your own guys in the shade.... That's pathetic.

If I have to respond to Dat telling me I'm being too negative -- & when someone says something about me, I pay attention & I try to check out whether it's true, and if it's true I cop to it -- then you need to get your act together too. Ben Simmons is a generational player, as you will see. A true great. Guys like Ben Simmons (& I don't mean he's alone in this) are what make basketball a great game.

Wake up.

[DCZards]

No he is not great without a jumper. They are able to hide his deficiencies now by putting him at the 1 and keeping the ball in his hands, but as the team improves and they get secondary scorers, his inability to shoot the ball we become a major liability. Maybe not in the regular season, but good defensive teams in the playoffs will make the 76ers pay for having him on the court. And this talk that he can just "develop" a 3 point shot is silly. Dude was 2nd to last in ft percentage Give me one example of a player who was that bad at ft's who eventually developed a consistent 3-point shot. Simmons will likely struggle to make open jumpers his entire career.

Yup...Simmons horrific shooting could prevent a very good player from becoming a great player. For his sake, I hope Simmons is able to significantly improve his outside shooting...but like you I'm skeptical.

No. It could prevent one of the best rookies in history from becoming one of the best players in history. Or at least make it harder for him to do it.

I really wonder how you think the Sixers managed to go from 10 wins to 52 wins in a single season. As Dat will confirm, it wasn't T.J. McConnell who made it happen! Or maybe you think that Embiid was responsible for the 42 extra wins -- by playing 1100 more minutes.

If we just look at 1s, 2s & 3s, Ben Simmons was in the top handful of players in the league. As a rookie. W/ a broken jump shot.

This is not ballet, & it's not gymnastics either. Simmons TS% was a little below average for a PG. Everything else he did was off the charts great.

As to his shooting, this year Bradley Beal managed a TS% that exactly .07% better than Ben Simmons. His rookie TS% was 5 percentage points worse than Simmons. In his entire career, John Wall has come within 2 percentage points of Simmons rookie TS% exactly once.

I think everybody here knows that Otto Porter is one of my favorite players -- not just on the Wizards but in the league. He had a terrific year, but he wasn't the equal of Ben Simmons as a rookie. For that matter, Jayson Tatum wasn't in a class with Simmons -- good as his rookie year was.

It's one thing to blow endlessly in the balloon of players b/c they are Wizards -- we're all fans. But failing to recognize greatness... or worse yet wanting to deny it, so that heaven forbid it doesn't put one of your own guys in the shade.... That's pathetic.

If I have to respond to Dat telling me I'm being too negative -- & when someone says something about me, I pay attention & I try to check out whether it's true, and if it's true I cop to it -- then you need to get your act together too. Ben Simmons is a generational player, as you will see. A true great. Guys like Ben Simmons (& I don't mean he's alone in this) are what make basketball a great game.

Wake up.

So, PIF, in short, you’re saying that Simmons has the potential to go down in history as a “great” NBA player…or a generational player, as you say. I don’t disagree with that. I just think he’ll have to become a MUCH better outside shooter to meet that standard. I am entitled to that opinion, right?

I’m not sure if you disagree with what I posted or not since you chose to respond instead with a slew of innuendos...and stats that don't have anything to do with what I'm saying.

Quite frankly, I’m getting tired of your acerbic responses to other poster’s opinions. If you ask me, your posting style is one of the main reasons we’ve lost so many of our regular posters. Of course, that’s just one man’s opinion.

[dckingsfan]

Yup...Simmons horrific shooting could prevent a very good player from becoming a great player. For his sake, I hope Simmons is able to significantly improve his outside shooting...but like you I'm skeptical.

No. It could prevent one of the best rookies in history from becoming one of the best players in history. Or at least make it harder for him to do it.

I really wonder how you think the Sixers managed to go from 10 wins to 52 wins in a single season. As Dat will confirm, it wasn't T.J. McConnell who made it happen! Or maybe you think that Embiid was responsible for the 42 extra wins -- by playing 1100 more minutes.

If we just look at 1s, 2s & 3s, Ben Simmons was in the top handful of players in the league. As a rookie. W/ a broken jump shot.

This is not ballet, & it's not gymnastics either. Simmons TS% was a little below average for a PG. Everything else he did was off the charts great.

As to his shooting, this year Bradley Beal managed a TS% that exactly .07% better than Ben Simmons. His rookie TS% was 5 percentage points worse than Simmons. In his entire career, John Wall has come within 2 percentage points of Simmons rookie TS% exactly once.

I think everybody here knows that Otto Porter is one of my favorite players -- not just on the Wizards but in the league. He had a terrific year, but he wasn't the equal of Ben Simmons as a rookie. For that matter, Jayson Tatum wasn't in a class with Simmons -- good as his rookie year was.

It's one thing to blow endlessly in the balloon of players b/c they are Wizards -- we're all fans. But failing to recognize greatness... or worse yet wanting to deny it, so that heaven forbid it doesn't put one of your own guys in the shade.... That's pathetic.

If I have to respond to Dat telling me I'm being too negative -- & when someone says something about me, I pay attention & I try to check out whether it's true, and if it's true I cop to it -- then you need to get your act together too. Ben Simmons is a generational player, as you will see. A true great. Guys like Ben Simmons (& I don't mean he's alone in this) are what make basketball a great game.

Wake up.

So, PIF, in short, you’re saying that Simmons has the potential to go down in history as a “great” NBA player…or a generational player, as you say. I don’t disagree with that. I just think he’ll have to become a MUCH better outside shooter to meet that standard. I am entitled to that opinion, right?

I’m not sure if you disagree with what I posted or not since you chose to respond instead with a slew of innuendos...and stats that don't have anything to do with what I'm saying.

Quite frankly, I’m getting tired of your acerbic responses to other poster’s opinions. If you ask me, your posting style is one of the main reasons we’ve lost so many of our regular posters. Of course, that’s just one man’s opinion.

One of the reasons Jason Kidd became so much better was when he finally got confidence in his 3. Yet he was still an All-Star when he was taking less than a 3 pointer per game.

I know, the game has changed - but...

On the other side - not sure how far Simmons will get based upon his FT percentage - I think that tells us something too.

[gesa2]

For the trade Wall contingent, a trade scenario:
If the Lakers manage to get Lebron and Paul George as free agents, Lebron will likely demand more high level vets over the young talent they have. Should we offer Wall for Lonzo Ball and Deng? Could we get Ball and Ingraham?

[NatP4]

One can dream:

Ball, Ingram, 25th overall, Deng

For

Wall, Gortat

[gtn130]

No he is not great without a jumper.

He just had the 12th best rookie season in the 3pt era when sorting by WS. Among active players, only CP3 and Blake Griffin had better rookie years. He is a lock to be a top ~15 player without developing a jumper.

They are able to hide his deficiencies now by putting him at the 1 and keeping the ball in his hands, but as the team improves and they get secondary scorers, his inability to shoot the ball we become a major liability.

What? He plays the 1 because that's his position. If they wanted to 'hide' him, they wouldn't feed him the ball every possession.

Maybe not in the regular season, but good defensive teams in the playoffs will make the 76ers pay for having him on the court.

He literally just averaged 16/8/9 with a BPM of 3 in 10 playoff games as a 21 year old rookie. Care to point out when 'good defensive teams in the playoffs' will make these adjustments?

And this talk that he can just "develop" a 3 point shot is silly.

Didn't once intimate that he would develop a 3pt shot or make any pronouncements about it being easy. You're pretty clearly just making things up as you go.

[gtn130]

Guys, PIF is 100% correct regarding Simmons. The fact that he accomplished what he did without a jumper as a rookie is insanely impressive. Teams can't really stop him.

[Dat2U]

Guys, PIF is 100% correct regarding Simmons. The fact that he accomplished what he did without a jumper as a rookie is insanely impressive. Teams can't really stop him.

You can't tell me Philly didn't underachieve in the post season. That was partly due to the flaws of their young stars. Stars who are clearly better than our trio. Philly no matter what they do this offseason should win 50+ games. I'm just pointing out chinks in their armour that make them vulnerable that I noticed in the postseason -- and I'm not saying we can take advantage of it in our current state.

Personally I think they would maximize their upside by putting 4 shooters around Simmons. The example being the 16th game winning streak without Embiid.

[Error Afflalo]

I really wonder how you think the Sixers managed to go from 10 wins to 52 wins in a single season. As Dat will confirm, it wasn't T.J. McConnell who made it happen! Or maybe you think that Embiid was responsible for the 42 extra wins -- by playing 1100 more minutes.

They didn't. They won 28 games in 2016-17 and went 13-18 in the 31 games Embiid played. Simmons was great, but the following was also critical in their 24 win bump:

- Embiid went from 31 games played in year 1 to 63 in year 2, became an all-star, and earned 2nd team all-NBA honors.

- Saric got a lot better in year 2. His overall shooting percentage jumped from 41.1% to 45.3% (eFG: 46.6% to 54.1%). Three point shooting went from 31.1% on 4.2 attempts per to 39.3% on 5.1 attempts per. Free throw percentage went 78.2% to 86%. Offensive rating went from 96 to 113, while defensive rating went from 109 to 107. <--- Interesting side note: Saric attempted 11.4 shots per game and 2.7 free throws per game both years. Weird.

- They signed Redick last offseason, who averaged a career high in points per game this season.

- They picked up Belinelli after his buyout from Atlanta, who put up 13.6 ppg on 49.5% shooting in 28 games, both career highs.

Again, Simmons was great, and he played a part in getting his guys good looks and helping them put up those stats, but they have some really nice pieces around him on that team.

[gtn130]

Guys, PIF is 100% correct regarding Simmons. The fact that he accomplished what he did without a jumper as a rookie is insanely impressive. Teams can't really stop him.

You can't tell me Philly didn't underachieve in the post season. That was partly due to the flaws of their young stars. Stars who are clearly better than our trio. Philly no matter what they do this offseason should win 50+ games. I'm just pointing out chinks in their armour that make them vulnerable that I noticed in the postseason -- and I'm not saying we can take advantage of it in our current state.

Personally I think they would maximize their upside by putting 4 shooters around Simmons. The example being the 16th game winning streak without Embiid.

The playoffs definitely showed some flaws for Philly - especially vs Boston. Boston ran them off the 3pt line and they had no answer.

Thing is, Boston was a nightmare matchup for Philly. Guys like Marcus Smart will shred 3pt shooting teams that pass a lot. Subtract KD and a Boston / GSW series goes 7. Boston is low key built to beat teams like GSW and Philly that pass a lot and rely heavily on the 3pt line.

Larger point though is I don't think the playoffs exposed Ben Simmons specifically. He can't be 'exposed' when he's that good of a passer and that good at taking his man off the dribble. Blitz pnr and he'll make the correct pass out of it. Shade off of him and attack the passing lanes and he'll drive right by you.

His median outcome is a bigger, more explosive and more defensively versatile Jason Kidd.

[dckingsfan]

Guys, PIF is 100% correct regarding Simmons. The fact that he accomplished what he did without a jumper as a rookie is insanely impressive. Teams can't really stop him.

You can't tell me Philly didn't underachieve in the post season. That was partly due to the flaws of their young stars. Stars who are clearly better than our trio. Philly no matter what they do this offseason should win 50+ games. I'm just pointing out chinks in their armour that make them vulnerable that I noticed in the postseason -- and I'm not saying we can take advantage of it in our current state.

Personally I think they would maximize their upside by putting 4 shooters around Simmons. The example being the 16th game winning streak without Embiid.

The playoffs definitely showed some flaws for Philly - especially vs Boston. Boston ran them off the 3pt line and they had no answer.

Thing is, Boston was a nightmare matchup for Philly. Guys like Marcus Smart will shred 3pt shooting teams that pass a lot. Subtract KD and a Boston / GSW series goes 7. Boston is low key built to beat teams like GSW and Philly that pass a lot and rely heavily on the 3pt line.

Larger point though is I don't think the playoffs exposed Ben Simmons specifically. He can't be 'exposed' when he's that good of a passer and that good at taking his man off the dribble. Blitz pnr and he'll make the correct pass out of it. Shade off of him and attack the passing lanes and he'll drive right by you.

His median outcome is a bigger, more explosive and more defensively versatile Jason Kidd.

I think you hit the nail on the head with Simmons.

And the other point is that Philly is still figuring it out - and Boston has had several recent years of experience in the playoffs. I don't think that you can underestimate that fact.

[prime1time]

No he is not great without a jumper.

He just had the 12th best rookie season in the 3pt era when sorting by WS. Among active players, only CP3 and Blake Griffin had better rookie years. He is a lock to be a top ~15 player without developing a jumper.

They are able to hide his deficiencies now by putting him at the 1 and keeping the ball in his hands, but as the team improves and they get secondary scorers, his inability to shoot the ball we become a major liability.

What? He plays the 1 because that's his position. If they wanted to 'hide' him, they wouldn't feed him the ball every possession.

Maybe not in the regular season, but good defensive teams in the playoffs will make the 76ers pay for having him on the court.

He literally just averaged 16/8/9 with a BPM of 3 in 10 playoff games as a 21 year old rookie. Care to point out when 'good defensive teams in the playoffs' will make these adjustments?

And this talk that he can just "develop" a 3 point shot is silly.

Didn't once intimate that he would develop a 3pt shot or make any pronouncements about it being easy. You're pretty clearly just making things up as you go.

There's a reason I didn't quote you. It's because I wasn't responding to you directly. I saw a conversation about Ben Simmons so I commented. If you took my comment as a direct response to you, that was not my intention. But back to Ben Simmons. On a deeper level we need to have some intellectual honesty surrounding his potential. When I said they try to hide his deficiencies, what I meant was that because he can't shoot they put the ball in his hands, so the defense can't help off. For example, let's say they sign Paul George. As soon as the ball goes to Paul George, I'm leaving Simmons and putting whoever was guarding him in the paint to help on Paul George's drives. When you can't shoot, teams can help off of you. Thus one way to deal with this problem is to keep the ball in Ben Simmons hands.

As far as your point concerning his 16/8/9 in the playoffs, I'd point out context. First of all, he's literally in the best environment for him to succeed. Embiid, Reddick, Belinelli, Saric and Covington perfectly compliment his game. With three point shooters this good, opposing teams can't really help on Simmons' drives. The conundrum the 76ers face going forward, however, is how do they improve from here. Like I mentioned earlier, if they sign a wing scorer, it will not be a clear cut addition, because it will force the ball out of Simmons hands and Simmons is a non-shooter.

More specifically, however, I think you should look at the plus/minus for the Boston series. In the one win, Simmons had finished with +5, while Reddick, Embiid and McConnell were all +15 or higher. In the 4 losses Simmons had +/-'s of -13 (Embiid was +3), -11 (Embiid was +6), -23 (Embiid was -8) and -21 (Embiid was -6). You cite stats to support your argument concerning Simmons, but the issue with Simmons is that he completely avoids shooting certain shots. Teams know this, and use it to their advantage.

Someone earlier made me about to be a Simmons hater, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I simply think that the 76ers are going about his development completely wrong. They need to push Simmons to the 4, take the ball out of his hands, have him develop a post game and a set 3-point shot. And then, utilizes his ability to initiate the offense here and there and utilizing his passing ability more so from the post. He's not a pg. He's a big man that has great athleticism, great handles, good passing ability and good vision. There's no reason why he shouldn't be at least a top 5 player in the league, but if they continue their blind commitment to decide to him being pg for his entire career, it will end in failure.

[payitforward]

...Quite frankly, I’m getting tired of your acerbic responses to other poster’s opinions. If you ask me, your posting style is one of the main reasons we’ve lost so many of our regular posters. Of course, that’s just one man’s opinion.

I take it I touched a nerve. Although I've never directed anything at all personal in your direction, apparently it's just fine for you to launch a personal attack on me. Disappointing.

Ok, that's about as far as I want to go based on being bruised by a thoughtlessly unkind remark. I suppose no one likes people disagreeing with him, but you seem to take it pretty personally.

OTOH, in the time I've been posting here I don't recall many instances of you looking back & writing "well, I was wrong about that...." Perhaps there has been one or or more.

I've made a fairly serious effort to maintain a friendly plane of interaction between us, Zards. In fact, I'll go further. I like you. But, if the test is to nod in approval when you say that a) Bradley Beal is in the top 5-8 SGs in the NBA, for reasons not in the numbers he puts up; & b) Ben Simmons is going to have trouble being a great NBA player despite an incredible rookie year in which he took his team from 10 wins to 52 wins in a single season, ...sorry, but that's a little much to ask.

Well... you fired a missile at me, & now I've fired one back. I don't have any interest in continuing nastiness. I'll try not to be "acerbic" in your direction, though in truth I can't think of an instance in which I was. Peace.

[payitforward]

Guys, PIF is 100% correct regarding Simmons. The fact that he accomplished what he did without a jumper as a rookie is insanely impressive. Teams can't really stop him.

You can't tell me Philly didn't underachieve in the post season. That was partly due to the flaws of their young stars. Stars who are clearly better than our trio. Philly no matter what they do this offseason should win 50+ games. I'm just pointing out chinks in their armour that make them vulnerable that I noticed in the postseason -- and I'm not saying we can take advantage of it in our current state.

Personally I think they would maximize their upside by putting 4 shooters around Simmons. The example being the 16th game winning streak without Embiid.

Well, they lost to Boston -- as good as Philly already is, Boston is certainly better. Even with their injuries.

I'm not sure how they can be seen as underachieving, but it's a minor point. We will have several seasons of looking at those two teams from way behind them; we'll see who does well & less well.

[payitforward]

I really wonder how you think the Sixers managed to go from 10 wins to 52 wins in a single season. As Dat will confirm, it wasn't T.J. McConnell who made it happen! Or maybe you think that Embiid was responsible for the 42 extra wins -- by playing 1100 more minutes.

They didn't. They won 28 games in 2016-17 and went 13-18 in the 31 games Embiid played. Simmons was great, but the following was also critical in their 24 win bump:

- Embiid went from 31 games played in year 1 to 63 in year 2, became an all-star, and earned 2nd team all-NBA honors.

- Saric got a lot better in year 2. His overall shooting percentage jumped from 41.1% to 45.3% (eFG: 46.6% to 54.1%). Three point shooting went from 31.1% on 4.2 attempts per to 39.3% on 5.1 attempts per. Free throw percentage went 78.2% to 86%. Offensive rating went from 96 to 113, while defensive rating went from 109 to 107. <--- Interesting side note: Saric attempted 11.4 shots per game and 2.7 free throws per game both years. Weird.

- They signed Redick last offseason, who averaged a career high in points per game this season.

- They picked up Belinelli after his buyout from Atlanta, who put up 13.6 ppg on 49.5% shooting in 28 games, both career highs.

Again, Simmons was great, and he played a part in getting his guys good looks and helping them put up those stats, but they have some really nice pieces around him on that team.

Oh, duh! sorry about that.

All your points are good -- though as Dat mentions Philly had a 16 game winning streak this last season without Embiid. He did improve this year, but not hugely. Biggest thing was that he played so many more games.

[Dark Faze]

Caps win has me unhappy with mediocrity.

Lets blow this thing up lol