Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
darealjuice wrote:https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/16/houston-rockets-trevor-ariza-free-agency-contract-golden-state-warriors/
Ariza reportedly looking for $50-60M over 4-5 years in his next contract. Not sure where he expects to find that though.
Qwigglez wrote:If the Spurs decide to trade Kawhi to the Lakers for Deng/Kuzma/Ingram do you think they’d be looking to trade LMA too? They are going to lose Parker and I know he didn’t help very much this past season but they could easily start to crumble especially with aging vets.
We could give the Spurs Chriss (to pair with Murray, college buddies), the 16th pick, and the Bucks pick, along with Dudley and maybe Alan Williams.
Want to say though, pretty sure Lebron is orchestrating all this. He told Kawhi to tell his people that he wants to go to LA. This lowers Kawhi value around the league and makes no one really want to make a deal. Lebron tells Lakers front office to swing the above deal and Spurs accept. Lebron and PG sign. Might have to be for a smaller one year or two year contract before they can do some kind of max contract later.
GetYourPHX wrote:Kawhi doesn't want to play in Phoenix, and there's no way that Pop trades him here anyway.
Why is this even a discussion? Move on.
GetYourPHX wrote:Kawhi doesn't want to play in Phoenix, and there's no way that Pop trades him here anyway.
Why is this even a discussion? Move on.
jcsunsfan wrote:GetYourPHX wrote:Kawhi doesn't want to play in Phoenix, and there's no way that Pop trades him here anyway.
Why is this even a discussion? Move on.
These declarations are amusing to me. They are just as silly as the lopsided homer trade suggestions. None of this you know. The idea that Pop would not trade him here is ridiculous. Pop has to decide IF he wants to trade him. Then he will trade him where he can get the return he wants. He would have no qualms about trading him to Phoenix.
It's just that WE should not really want Kahwi. He seems to have a chronic injury problem, he is a one year rental, he is not a team leader personality, and he seems to have a bad manipulative crowd around him. Kahwi needs to play next to a more dominant established star. He would be great in Houston. But match him with LeBron somewhere and that would be really good too. He might even fit in Philly, but that team might be a little bit too young for the right fit. I cannot see Boston, he is such a redundant position for them. They would have to trade Tatum, Brown, or someone to make the fit correct.
I could see Kahwi ending up on an instant superteam orchestrated by LeBron somehow.
The suns gave chandler 50 mil at a similar age so anything is possible. Never underestimate the stupidity of nba gms.BobbieL wrote:darealjuice wrote:https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/16/houston-rockets-trevor-ariza-free-agency-contract-golden-state-warriors/
Ariza reportedly looking for $50-60M over 4-5 years in his next contract. Not sure where he expects to find that though.
nobody is giving Ariza that much money
he is 33 and fit for a play off team
a team with cap space can spend it better
WeekapaugGroove wrote:The suns gave chandler 50 mil at a similar age so anything is possible. Never underestimate the stupidity of nba gms.BobbieL wrote:darealjuice wrote:https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/16/houston-rockets-trevor-ariza-free-agency-contract-golden-state-warriors/
Ariza reportedly looking for $50-60M over 4-5 years in his next contract. Not sure where he expects to find that though.
nobody is giving Ariza that much money
he is 33 and fit for a play off team
a team with cap space can spend it better
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jredsaz wrote:DirtyDez wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:
Wrong. Next year's class is MUCH better than this year's for a team like Phoenix. This year's may have more at the very top simply because it has Lebron and PG13, but we have no shot at those guys. Next year's class is much deeper as far as number of stars and in particular young stars.
Horford, Kyrie, Rozier, D'Angelo Russell, Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard, Kevin Love (if he declines his PO), Millsap, Klay Thompson, Jordan Bell, Bojan Bogdanovic, Myles Turner, Patrick Beverley, Tobias Harris, Marc Gasol (if he declines PO), Dragic & Whiteside (both PO), Justise Winslow, Khris Middleton, Bledsoe, Jeff Teague, Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler, KAT (RFA who will be matched), Mirotic (may be outdated since he signed something recently), Mudiay & Porzingis RFAs, Melo, Vucevic, Booker (our RFA), Aminu, Randolph, Cauley-Stein, Kawhi Leonard, Manu (though old), Delon Wright, Valanciunas, Sefolosha, Rubio, Jerebko, Gortat, Kief, Kelly Oubre.
That isn't a complete list just a list of guys who I think have at least moderate value on a general market or decent upside. For Phoenix, that is a lot of PG options, some vet PFs who could help, and some young max worthy guys to try and sign and trade for.
I really hope the Suns stay away from most those names and the guys I would want likely won’t hit the market. Unless you want to give Kemba and Conley contract...
Rozier and Russell excite me a little bit but a smart front office like the Nets letting him go would give me pause.
In the end the Suns won't have the space or the talent to add any game changers this or next off season via free agency. Booler isnt and shouldnt delay thay extension. Given the Lakers impending super team it's clear we need to build around Booker, Ayton, and Jackson. Suns need to add quality role players around this crew and start winning ball games. They won't be in a position to win a ring for another 3 to 5 years regardless of who they add (Save for LeBron and Kawhi coming here).
They should keep the Bucks and Heat picks as future assets to make a big move closer to their ring window. #16, #31, 2019 1st, and this year's cap space all can be used to add quality vet or two. If the Suns win a championship this decade it's going to be because Booker, Ayton, and Jackson became a big three.
Well ariza has played with lots of guys and has friends across the league so maybe he gets that same gift.jcsunsfan wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:The suns gave chandler 50 mil at a similar age so anything is possible. Never underestimate the stupidity of nba gms.BobbieL wrote:
nobody is giving Ariza that much money
he is 33 and fit for a play off team
a team with cap space can spend it better
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The Suns gave Chandler that money in an all-out effort to lure LMA. The moment that LMA said no, they shifted to a 3-4 year rebuild. McD said this publicly.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Well ariza has played with lots of guys and has friends across the league so maybe he gets that same gift.jcsunsfan wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:The suns gave chandler 50 mil at a similar age so anything is possible. Never underestimate the stupidity of nba gms.
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The Suns gave Chandler that money in an all-out effort to lure LMA. The moment that LMA said no, they shifted to a 3-4 year rebuild. McD said this publicly.
What ever the reason was be it recruiting LMA, ability on the floor, or his vet presence helping develop their young bigs I would say that signing failed on all levels.
And they didn't make that change to all out rebuild until the following summer. That first year of chandler they wanted to win with the knight Bledsoe backcourt they just didn't.
It blows my mind that they had to give chandler that 4th year. Everyone knew the day he signed that deal he'd be washed by this coming season and that would be dead money. If he was off this summer they would have max room. Its the gift that just keeps giving.
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AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:DirtyDez wrote:
I really hope the Suns stay away from most those names and the guys I would want likely won’t hit the market. Unless you want to give Kemba and Conley contract...
Rozier and Russell excite me a little bit but a smart front office like the Nets letting him go would give me pause.
In the end the Suns won't have the space or the talent to add any game changers this or next off season via free agency. Booler isnt and shouldnt delay thay extension. Given the Lakers impending super team it's clear we need to build around Booker, Ayton, and Jackson. Suns need to add quality role players around this crew and start winning ball games. They won't be in a position to win a ring for another 3 to 5 years regardless of who they add (Save for LeBron and Kawhi coming here).
They should keep the Bucks and Heat picks as future assets to make a big move closer to their ring window. #16, #31, 2019 1st, and this year's cap space all can be used to add quality vet or two. If the Suns win a championship this decade it's going to be because Booker, Ayton, and Jackson became a big three.
That makes no sense. So the Suns need to get role players NOW instead of a potential star next year because the Lakers are building a super team and the Suns aren't going to contend for 3-5 years no matter who they add? Just based on that last part, what would be the rush to blow max space on a few role players to win meaningless games next year instead of maxing somebody the following year?
gaspar wrote:
jredsaz wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:
In the end the Suns won't have the space or the talent to add any game changers this or next off season via free agency. Booler isnt and shouldnt delay thay extension. Given the Lakers impending super team it's clear we need to build around Booker, Ayton, and Jackson. Suns need to add quality role players around this crew and start winning ball games. They won't be in a position to win a ring for another 3 to 5 years regardless of who they add (Save for LeBron and Kawhi coming here).
They should keep the Bucks and Heat picks as future assets to make a big move closer to their ring window. #16, #31, 2019 1st, and this year's cap space all can be used to add quality vet or two. If the Suns win a championship this decade it's going to be because Booker, Ayton, and Jackson became a big three.
That makes no sense. So the Suns need to get role players NOW instead of a potential star next year because the Lakers are building a super team and the Suns aren't going to contend for 3-5 years no matter who they add? Just based on that last part, what would be the rush to blow max space on a few role players to win meaningless games next year instead of maxing somebody the following year?
What star is likely to sign here and how you getting that space next season? 75% of those names are getiing extensions or RFA. Book is signing that extension too and both side shoupd be all in on it. Keeping him happy is important.
And there aren't any meaningless wins anymore. Booker, Jackson, and Ayton need to win games. That opinion is just awful. You got to get rid of that garbage. We got the 1st overall. Tanking is done. The next four years need to be about getting to the playoffs and winning some playoff games. The four years after that are about rings.
Structure deals short and keep the cap flexible. Signing quality vets to play along side that core is important for talent development.
DarkHawk wrote:Dave Griffin was on NBA radio and said (regarding Philly) that the 10 & 26th picks are too much for absorbing parsons and the 4. If that's the case, I guess it wouldn't cost us the farm to get him/the pick. He admitted that the contract is really big and you won't get a ton of assets if you are moving that salary to a team who can absorb it.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Yeah I'm totally down for a couple smart one year deals. Even with a booker extension if they didn't commit long term to anyone this summer they could get max space pretty easily next summer. If the young core plays well they could actually be a destination instead of a place you need to over pay to come here.
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LukasBMW wrote:DarkHawk wrote:Dave Griffin was on NBA radio and said (regarding Philly) that the 10 & 26th picks are too much for absorbing parsons and the 4. If that's the case, I guess it wouldn't cost us the farm to get him/the pick. He admitted that the contract is really big and you won't get a ton of assets if you are moving that salary to a team who can absorb it.
If this is true, then we should offer Chandler/Dudley #16 for #4 and Parsons.
My god, it really isn't too much to absorb. We're on the hook for Dudley/Chandler anyway this year AND next year Parson becomes a asset as a major expiring we can use as a trade chip.
I'll even throw in #31 AND the Bucks pick if we can. But that's it.
I think it is short sighted by Philly though. Trading up for #4 to potentially get another young player with star potential is worth their cap space.
AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:
That makes no sense. So the Suns need to get role players NOW instead of a potential star next year because the Lakers are building a super team and the Suns aren't going to contend for 3-5 years no matter who they add? Just based on that last part, what would be the rush to blow max space on a few role players to win meaningless games next year instead of maxing somebody the following year?
What star is likely to sign here and how you getting that space next season? 75% of those names are getiing extensions or RFA. Book is signing that extension too and both side shoupd be all in on it. Keeping him happy is important.
And there aren't any meaningless wins anymore. Booker, Jackson, and Ayton need to win games. That opinion is just awful. You got to get rid of that garbage. We got the 1st overall. Tanking is done. The next four years need to be about getting to the playoffs and winning some playoff games. The four years after that are about rings.
Structure deals short and keep the cap flexible. Signing quality vets to play along side that core is important for talent development.
Next offseason will depend on this offseason, but it is very doable to get to max if we dump Dudley or Chandler. The key is Book waiting the one offseason to extend. Also, plenty of those guys listed are straight UFA, like Kemba, who is an obvious fit here. Also, PG, our needed position, has a ton of guys and not many teams who need one, depressing the market further. The point is not that we should project the specific star that is likely to sign here. All I know is that the odds of getting a star who fits are drastically higher next offseason than this offseason.
I never said Booker, Jackson, and Ayton don't need to win games. What I said is that the urgency to win games is not so immediate and great that we should lock our cap space up for 3-4 years on role players at big salaries in an effort to win 1 offseason earlier given the giant opportunity cost. The idea that we need to spend big money on role players to win with a bunch of 20 year olds at the expense of a potential max offering next offseason is one of the worst thoughts i have read. It has 0 logic.
I am fine signing a role player to a 1 year deal to maintain the cap space next year. That is fine. Signing role players in any manner that impacts our cap next offseason, which is our best chance to max anybody in FA in probably the next decade, is beyond stupid. I mean look at the role player deals teams have made that are similar to your proposition trying to win now with youth. It cost LA Russell and will probably cost them Ball to dump Deng. It cost us a huge amount of cap space for Dudley, which we wish we didn't have right now. Chandler too. Only Reddick has really worked in the manner you mention, and that is just because it was for 1 year.
jredsaz wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:jredsaz wrote:
What star is likely to sign here and how you getting that space next season? 75% of those names are getiing extensions or RFA. Book is signing that extension too and both side shoupd be all in on it. Keeping him happy is important.
And there aren't any meaningless wins anymore. Booker, Jackson, and Ayton need to win games. That opinion is just awful. You got to get rid of that garbage. We got the 1st overall. Tanking is done. The next four years need to be about getting to the playoffs and winning some playoff games. The four years after that are about rings.
Structure deals short and keep the cap flexible. Signing quality vets to play along side that core is important for talent development.
Next offseason will depend on this offseason, but it is very doable to get to max if we dump Dudley or Chandler. The key is Book waiting the one offseason to extend. Also, plenty of those guys listed are straight UFA, like Kemba, who is an obvious fit here. Also, PG, our needed position, has a ton of guys and not many teams who need one, depressing the market further. The point is not that we should project the specific star that is likely to sign here. All I know is that the odds of getting a star who fits are drastically higher next offseason than this offseason.
I never said Booker, Jackson, and Ayton don't need to win games. What I said is that the urgency to win games is not so immediate and great that we should lock our cap space up for 3-4 years on role players at big salaries in an effort to win 1 offseason earlier given the giant opportunity cost. The idea that we need to spend big money on role players to win with a bunch of 20 year olds at the expense of a potential max offering next offseason is one of the worst thoughts i have read. It has 0 logic.
I am fine signing a role player to a 1 year deal to maintain the cap space next year. That is fine. Signing role players in any manner that impacts our cap next offseason, which is our best chance to max anybody in FA in probably the next decade, is beyond stupid. I mean look at the role player deals teams have made that are similar to your proposition trying to win now with youth. It cost LA Russell and will probably cost them Ball to dump Deng. It cost us a huge amount of cap space for Dudley, which we wish we didn't have right now. Chandler too. Only Reddick has really worked in the manner you mention, and that is just because it was for 1 year.
Who is this max free agent man?! Klay isn't leaving. Kawhi is on his way to LA with PG. Middleton, Harris, Kemba, are all good but would be over paid max guys. Love and Gasol could really back fire on a long max deal. RFAs like Russel you have to pay for. And Booker is signing his extension as soon as he is able.
Deng, Mozgov, Dudley and Chandler were awful signings and everyone called it at the time. That is not what I am proposing at all.
My point is they aren't winning a ring in the next few years regardless of who they sign. Honestly, they need to make sure they structure their cap so that in three or four years from know the only contracts they have locked in are Booker, Jackson, and Ayton. That's when a signing like your talking about could actually push them over the top. Until then it's about putting together a team that can start learning how to win basketball games. If we can land that guy through trade I'm all about it. If they can get in in FA great, maintain flexible short term deals to keep that an option. But waiting until next year and maxing out Kemba Walker isn't a franchise changing move.
Phoenix could be involved in a Leonard deal, however, as a third team facilitator. Leonard reportedly has expressed interest in playing for the Los Angeles Lakers, and the Lakers have enough young assets to potentially satisfy the Spurs.
Phoenix could get involved by taking Luol Deng’s contract off the Lakers’ hands – he has two years and $36 million left on his deal – in exchange for one of Los Angeles’ young players. Say, for example, point guard Lonzo Ball.
This much is certain: The Suns will not trade their No. 1 pick for Leonard.