NBA Draft 2018 6.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

[tedwilliams1999]

I'm not an Orthopedic surgeon, but I am a doctor in internal medicine, so I can maybe provide a little more insight regarding these medicals.

The only way something would have turned up as a red flag in MPJ's medical history would have been if he didn't have the microdiscectomy procedure. If he didn't go through with surgery, then there's a chance that a herniated disc would've been discovered during a physical exam and a subsequent MRI.

The surgery basically guaranteed a clean medical bill on paper. The main issue with back surgery, though, is pain. Everyone has different pain thresholds, and there's no good objective way to measure this. Lliterally all we can try to do to quantify pain is use the pain scale, where patients rate their pain from 1 to 10. Porter's MRIs at this point are going to be clean, until he starts to suffer another injury. He can simply lie about his pain levels as well, and that will also result in him passing every physical and medical exam.

One way to really know if he is pain free is to watch him during an intense work out, and to closely follow how his body responds in the following days. He also has to then tell the truth about what he's feeling, which most athletes don't do.

so what you're saying is, draft someone else

I’m a big draft Porter at 7 guy and this is only one medically opinion but it’s scary.

Just to clarify again - I think it's more than likely that MPJ has a perfectly healthy and long NBA career. I just wanted to point out how worthless his medical exam and his medical records are likely to be in terms of helping us figure out what's going on, especially if the truth isn't all coming out. If he was being honest with his doctors then it'd be another story.

It still comes down to risk tolerance - me personally, I'd take him in 8 to 10 range.

[johnnyvann840]

The two guys I like least in this draft seem to be the two guys the Bulls are eyeing the most.

Porter and Knox. I'll take Knox over Porter but just not crazy about him. I don't understand how a player like that can be so high regarded. A player like Porter is thought of as some superstar upside prospect. But, then I watch them play and I don't know what I'm not seeing. I think Josh Okogie is a better prospect than both. He's proven it against good competition. He has all the measureables, he has all the athleticism, can run, has the highest vertical and the highest no step vert. He stepped up against some of the best teams in college like Duke and other highly ranked teams. He looks like a killer when you watch him play. Engaged, diving for the ball, etc. He comes to the combines and outshines most of the top prospects and probably ALL of the guards. But, still nobody is talking about him. I mean, instead of watching a guy workout with dummies or play in HS or in an empty gym, watch an actual game against worthy peers...

or watch him doing things in games. The types of passes he makes. His instincts, hustle. He can shoot. Finish. He's a relentless defender. Blocks shots. How is he not higher? This is still my guy in this draft. He's gonna surprise everybody in the NBA....

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[Ralphb07]

so what you're saying is, draft someone else

I’m a big draft Porter at 7 guy and this is only one medically opinion but it’s scary.

Just to clarify again - I think it's more than likely that MPJ has a perfectly healthy and long NBA career. I just wanted to point out how worthless his medical exam and his medical records are likely to be in terms of helping us figure out what's going on, especially if the truth isn't all coming out. If he was being honest with his doctors then it'd be another story.

It still comes down to risk tolerance - me personally, I'd take him in 8 to 10 range.

Ahh okay thanks.

[johnnyvann840]

Whoever said Porter's medicals look good doesn't know much about microdiscetomy. That's the whole point and why it was a good decision for him. He was apparently playing through the pain for a couple yrs before opting for surgery. The surgery provides relief, but destabilizes the spine and increases the risk for further injury. Hope he has no issues

Thr GMs that saw the medicals and said it looksed good were very concerned about the issue, and the details. That's reasonable risk imo given the talent level.

I'm not an Orthopedic surgeon, but I am a doctor in internal medicine, so I can maybe provide a little more insight regarding these medicals.

The only way something would have turned up as a red flag in MPJ's medical history would have been if he didn't have the microdiscectomy procedure. If he didn't go through with surgery, then there's a chance that a herniated disc would've been discovered during a physical exam and a subsequent MRI.

The surgery basically guaranteed a clean medical bill on paper. The main issue with back surgery, though, is pain. Everyone has different pain thresholds, and there's no good objective way to measure this. Lliterally all we can try to do to quantify pain is use the pain scale, where patients rate their pain from 1 to 10. Porter's MRIs at this point are going to be clean, until he starts to suffer another injury. He can simply lie about his pain levels as well, and that will also result in him passing every physical and medical exam.

One way to really know if he is pain free is to watch him during an intense work out, and to closely follow how his body responds in the following days. He also has to then tell the truth about what he's feeling, which most athletes don't do.

Thanks. And that is exactly the surgeon in a video I've posted a couple times now, has said. Exactly that. That it is impossible for any doctor to give a prognosis on that injury post surgery. ONLY the patient can feel pain. So, all we can really go off based on what you are saying as a doctor, is what we see IN GAMES and AFTER WORKOUTS..

Well, so far since his surgery, he has taken almost 6 months before trying to play. Then, he came back and looked like a guy who just had back surgery. In fact, went as far as to blame the "that back pain coming back"... of course, he blamed his diet for the couple of days they were in the hotel for it. Then, he cancels TWO workouts and the reports were that he was in so much pain from muscle spasms that he couldn't even get out of bed.

Why again are we even talking about drafting this kid when there is a board full of prospects more talented and more proven against better competition and without this risk. It's mind boggling and ludicrous. That might be a home run swing for the fences, but the pitch is way over the batter's head or way outside.

[johnnyvann840]

If the Bulls actually wasted an entire season and then the resulting 7th pick in this draft for Michael Porter, I am going to be sick to my stomach. Probably recurring nausea every time I have to watch him play too and then every time I have to see reports about him missing practice and games because of pain and spasms. Then, I'll get even more sick reading people defending the pick while all this is going on and saying we are like the 76ers and it's actually "good that he is missing most of his rookie year". Cause we all know it's coming.... right?

[JohnnyTapwater]

Less than a week away. I can't wait to see how things turn out.

[kodo]

Really need a Bamba or "Other" poll choice.

[NecessaryEvil]

Officially 4 days away in 40 minutes

Before you guys start complaing about the draft process dragging. The FIRST pick in the NBA DRAFT will be awarded 5 minutes to make a selection.



Ayton & Booker should be pretty good.

Doncic, Hield, WCF & Fox. Looks they'll be getting another top 5 guy the following season.

[kodo]

OT:

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I’m not surprised

Just to be clear, Givony was being sarcastic, his stock is not falling.

Dry sarcasm doesn't work online; one would think Givony knows that being a social media guy.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Thr GMs that saw the medicals and said it looksed good were very concerned about the issue, and the details. That's reasonable risk imo given the talent level.

I'm not an Orthopedic surgeon, but I am a doctor in internal medicine, so I can maybe provide a little more insight regarding these medicals.

The only way something would have turned up as a red flag in MPJ's medical history would have been if he didn't have the microdiscectomy procedure. If he didn't go through with surgery, then there's a chance that a herniated disc would've been discovered during a physical exam and a subsequent MRI.

The surgery basically guaranteed a clean medical bill on paper. The main issue with back surgery, though, is pain. Everyone has different pain thresholds, and there's no good objective way to measure this. Lliterally all we can try to do to quantify pain is use the pain scale, where patients rate their pain from 1 to 10. Porter's MRIs at this point are going to be clean, until he starts to suffer another injury. He can simply lie about his pain levels as well, and that will also result in him passing every physical and medical exam.

One way to really know if he is pain free is to watch him during an intense work out, and to closely follow how his body responds in the following days. He also has to then tell the truth about what he's feeling, which most athletes don't do.

Thanks. And that is exactly the surgeon in a video I've posted a couple times now, has said. Exactly that. That it is impossible for any doctor to give a prognosis on that injury post surgery. ONLY the patient can feel pain. So, all we can really go off based on what you are saying as a doctor, is what we see IN GAMES and AFTER WORKOUTS..

Well, so far since his surgery, he has taken almost 6 months before trying to play. Then, he came back and looked like a guy who just had back surgery. In fact, went as far as to blame the "that back pain coming back"... of course, he blamed his diet for the couple of days they were in the hotel for it. Then, he cancels TWO workouts and the reports were that he was in so much pain from muscle spasms that he couldn't even get out of bed.

Why again are we even talking about drafting this kid when there is a board full of prospects more talented and more proven against better competition and without this risk. It's mind boggling and ludicrous. That might be a home run swing for the fences, but the pitch is way over the batter's head or way outside.

Mind posting that video one more time? I missed it.

[RememberLu]

Why is the draft on a thursday, I'm gonna miss half of it sitting on the L

[Truebiscuit]

Man have we really gone though 200+ pages of draft talk?? Savages, all of you

I can't wait for Thursday, just like everyone here. I have a feeling MPJ is going to be the pick at 7.

[fleet]

Whoever said Porter's medicals look good doesn't know much about microdiscetomy. That's the whole point and why it was a good decision for him. He was apparently playing through the pain for a couple yrs before opting for surgery. The surgery provides relief, but destabilizes the spine and increases the risk for further injury. Hope he has no issues

Thr GMs that saw the medicals and said it looksed good were very concerned about the issue, and the details. That's reasonable risk imo given the talent level.

I'm not an Orthopedic surgeon, but I am a doctor in internal medicine, so I can maybe provide a little more insight regarding these medicals.

The only way something would have turned up as a red flag in MPJ's medical history would have been if he didn't have the microdiscectomy procedure. If he didn't go through with surgery, then there's a chance that a herniated disc would've been discovered during a physical exam and a subsequent MRI.

The surgery basically guaranteed a clean medical bill on paper. The main issue with back surgery, though, is pain. Everyone has different pain thresholds, and there's no good objective way to measure this. Lliterally all we can try to do to quantify pain is use the pain scale, where patients rate their pain from 1 to 10. Porter's MRIs at this point are going to be clean, until he starts to suffer another injury. He can simply lie about his pain levels as well, and that will also result in him passing every physical and medical exam.

One way to really know if he is pain free is to watch him during an intense work out, and to closely follow how his body responds in the following days. He also has to then tell the truth about what he's feeling, which most athletes don't do.

What the GM comments reportedly indicated were better than expected data. So it sounds as if there is varying degrees or possible results post OP. Then again we rely on accuracy in translation by reporters. And he had a spasm the other day. I've decided to roll the dice. Chances like this don't come around. Unless a team is struck by Jimmy Butler lightning.

[Red Larrivee]

Really need a Bamba or "Other" poll choice.

Yeah, I didn't see that option. I voted Young, with Carter as a close 2nd.

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[johnnyvann840]

Mind posting that video one more time? I missed it.

https://www.spine-health.com/video/microdiscectomy-surgery-video-a-spine-surgeon-explains-procedure

[realEAST]

The two guys I like least in this draft seem to be the two guys the Bulls are eyeing the most.

Porter and Knox. I'll take Knox over Porter but just not crazy about him. I don't understand how a player like that can be so high regarded. A player like Porter is thought of as some superstar upside prospect. But, then I watch them play and I don't know what I'm not seeing. I think Josh Okogie is a better prospect than both. He's proven it against good competition. He has all the measureables, he has all the athleticism, can run, has the highest vertical and the highest no step vert. He stepped up against some of the best teams in college like Duke and other highly ranked teams. He looks like a killer when you watch him play. Engaged, diving for the ball, etc. He comes to the combines and outshines most of the top prospects and probably ALL of the guards. But, still nobody is talking about him. I mean, instead of watching a guy workout with dummies or play in HS or in an empty gym, watch an actual game against worthy peers...

or watch him doing things in games. The types of passes he makes. His instincts, hustle. He can shoot. Finish. He's a relentless defender. Blocks shots. How is he not higher? This is still my guy in this draft. He's gonna surprise everybody in the NBA....

Yeah, not sure why the talk of him died out. I can only second everything you wrote.
I liked him before the Combine, but the way he showed off there made me think he is going late lottery. Now that there is talk of some other guys as most popular in that range (Huerter etc.), and with Hutchinson apparently having a promise from Brooklyn, I really hope Okogie falls to us. I'd take him (or at least what he can become) over LaVine every day.

[kodo]

Wow, draft is gonna be fun if these guys got green room invites.

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Other than Robert Williams, all the surprise green room invites are guards, specifically almost all are SGs.
I have a feeling we'll see shooters drafted higher than expected just due to positional needs & current NBA trends.
If Aaron Holiday is so valued around the league got a green room invite, I wonder if Trae Young really drops to #6 or lower.

[NewEra21]

Really need a Bamba or "Other" poll choice.

Yeah, I didn't see that option. I voted Young, with Carter as a close 2nd.

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I honestly think Ive voted different in everyone. At this point Ive convinced myself to see the upside and like everyone except Porter. There are some Ill be more happy about, but if we really do pick Porter I think its a mistake.

[NecessaryEvil]

Outside of the Doug deal, what recent Bulls drafting would have you to believe selecting Porter would be a mistake?

Denzel's going to be good, Portis is going to be even better. Nwaba was GREAT pick up & they may have even been right about Cameron Payne, who showed admirable signs in Fred's system. Lauri is going to be legend.

I trust Paxson & co. when it comes to draft picks. I expect the 22nd pick to be an excellent selection as well.

[NewEra21]

Outside of the Doug deal, what recent Bulls drafting would have you to believe selecting Porter would be a mistake?

Denzel's going to be good, Portis is going to be even better. Nwaba was GREAT pick up & they may have even been right about Cameron Payne, who showed admirable signs in Fred's system. Lauri is going to be legend.

I trust Paxson & co. when it comes to draft picks. I expect the 22nd pick to be an excellent selection as well.

I just don't see this superstar skillset that some claim to think he has. Its been beaten to death at this point really lol. So my opinion on his skill set, I believe his injury is nothing to take lightly, and we already have a healthy version of a similar player in Lauri. All that put together is why I think its a mistake.