Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Would not mind this depending on the cost which I’d guess is #31 or the Bucks 1st.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Would not mind this depending on the cost which I’d guess is #31 or the Bucks 1st.

Would love Beverely but I wouldn't be comfortable moving valuable assets for him after his knee injury. #31 is about as far as I would go. Coming back from micro-fracture surgery is no small task.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Would not mind this depending on the cost which I’d guess is #31 or the Bucks 1st.

Would love Beverely but I wouldn't be comfortable moving valuable assets for him after his knee injury. #31 is about as far as I would go. Coming back from micro-fracture surgery is no small task.

He’s already completely recovered. I don’t think it’s an issue

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23668229/la-clippers-pg-patrick-beverley-cleared-full-basketball-activities

His contract is pretty cheap as well so even if he doesn’t work out, it’s hardly a problem going forward.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Would not mind this depending on the cost which I’d guess is #31 or the Bucks 1st.

Would love Beverely but I wouldn't be comfortable moving valuable assets for him after his knee injury. #31 is about as far as I would go. Coming back from micro-fracture surgery is no small task.

He’s already completely recovered. I don’t think it’s an issue

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23668229/la-clippers-pg-patrick-beverley-cleared-full-basketball-activities

His contract is pretty cheap as well so even if he doesn’t work out, it’s hardly a problem going forward.

He's also not under contract yet and there is a team option for $5 million. I don't even know they will exercise it before the draft. Also it seems like a steal of a contract so if he's healthy I don't know why they'd trade him especially since they already have two draft picks. Unless they just traded Tobias and their picks to move up real high and start a rebuild...but he'd still be a nice cheap vet to have around....and also a good one if they could trade for Kawhi.

I like him though.

[lilfishi22]

I don't think he's completely recovered. Complete recovery means coming all the way back to form or at least most of the way back. He's cleared for basketball activities which means he's just done the rehab and can begin getting into back into it which takes time. Who knows if he'll come all the way back. If he doesn't have the same level of quickness or strength, is he still an elite defender?

I'm fine with #31 but I'd need to see him playing first if we want to move any other picks (e.g Bucks pick) for him. The risk isn't that he'll be a burden financially but rather giving up something valuable for a lesser player than we had expected

[Revived]

Would love Beverely but I wouldn't be comfortable moving valuable assets for him after his knee injury. #31 is about as far as I would go. Coming back from micro-fracture surgery is no small task.

He’s already completely recovered. I don’t think it’s an issue

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23668229/la-clippers-pg-patrick-beverley-cleared-full-basketball-activities

His contract is pretty cheap as well so even if he doesn’t work out, it’s hardly a problem going forward.

He's also not under contract yet and there is a team option for $5 million. I don't even know they will exercise it before the draft. Also it seems like a steal of a contract so if he's healthy I don't know why they'd trade him especially since they already have two draft picks. Unless they just traded Tobias and their picks to move up real high and start a rebuild...but he'd still be a nice cheap vet to have around....and also a good one if they could trade for Kawhi.

I like him though.

They only have one first next year so that’s why I think the Bucks pick makes sense for them since their so early in the rebuilding stage.

They can use it to trade for Kawhi if need be as well since Spurs will take all the picks they can get as they would start rebuilding as well.

[Revived]

I don't think he's completely recovered. Complete recovery means coming all the way back to form or at least most of the way back. He's cleared for basketball activities which means he's just done the rehab and can begin getting into back into it which takes time. Who knows if he'll come all the way back. If he doesn't have the same level of quickness or strength, is he still an elite defender?

I'm fine with #31 but I'd need to see him playing first if we want to move any other picks (e.g Bucks pick) for him. The risk isn't that he'll be a burden financially but rather giving up something valuable for a lesser player than we had expected

The Bucks is extremely worthless imo. I value the #31 in this draft over #24 or later in the 2020 draft.

The Bucks with Budenholzer will be one of the best teams in basketball.

[lilfishi22]

I don't think he's completely recovered. Complete recovery means coming all the way back to form or at least most of the way back. He's cleared for basketball activities which means he's just done the rehab and can begin getting into back into it which takes time. Who knows if he'll come all the way back. If he doesn't have the same level of quickness or strength, is he still an elite defender?

I'm fine with #31 but I'd need to see him playing first if we want to move any other picks (e.g Bucks pick) for him. The risk isn't that he'll be a burden financially but rather giving up something valuable for a lesser player than we had expected

The Bucks is extremely worthless imo. I value the #31 in this draft over #24 or later in the 2020 draft.

The Bucks with Budenholzer will be one of the best teams in basketball.

It's not worthless. It's an unknown but hardly worthless. Bucks with Bud still need to prove themselves (to Giannis) before they can be considered one of the best teams in basketball. The problem with the Bucks is not Giannis or Bud but that they just don't attract FA's and their cap situation isn't too rosy. There's only a limited amount of moves they can make to get better and they don't have the youth on their roster to improve significantly internally. If they don't get significantly better fast (ie top 3 in the East), there's a chance Giannis would want out with a season or two left on his extension.

I don't think I'm overvaluing that pick by not wanting to throw it into a trade for a 29 year old 3&D PG coming of MF surgery.

[LukasBMW]

I don't think he's completely recovered. Complete recovery means coming all the way back to form or at least most of the way back. He's cleared for basketball activities which means he's just done the rehab and can begin getting into back into it which takes time. Who knows if he'll come all the way back. If he doesn't have the same level of quickness or strength, is he still an elite defender?

I'm fine with #31 but I'd need to see him playing first if we want to move any other picks (e.g Bucks pick) for him. The risk isn't that he'll be a burden financially but rather giving up something valuable for a lesser player than we had expected

The Bucks is extremely worthless imo. I value the #31 in this draft over #24 or later in the 2020 draft.

The Bucks with Budenholzer will be one of the best teams in basketball.

It's probably going to be a late 1st round pick. BUT that Laker pick from the Nash trade was supposed to be a first round pick. Had we kept it, it would be the 10th pick in this deep draft AND had luck been a bit different for the Lakers, it could have been a 4th or 5th pick in a few previous drafts.

Ya never know...that's why we play the game.

[Revived]

I don't think he's completely recovered. Complete recovery means coming all the way back to form or at least most of the way back. He's cleared for basketball activities which means he's just done the rehab and can begin getting into back into it which takes time. Who knows if he'll come all the way back. If he doesn't have the same level of quickness or strength, is he still an elite defender?

I'm fine with #31 but I'd need to see him playing first if we want to move any other picks (e.g Bucks pick) for him. The risk isn't that he'll be a burden financially but rather giving up something valuable for a lesser player than we had expected

The Bucks is extremely worthless imo. I value the #31 in this draft over #24 or later in the 2020 draft.

The Bucks with Budenholzer will be one of the best teams in basketball.

It's not worthless. It's an unknown but hardly worthless. Bucks with Bud still need to prove themselves (to Giannis) before they can be considered one of the best teams in basketball. The problem with the Bucks is not Giannis or Bud but that they just don't attract FA's and their cap situation isn't too rosy. There's only a limited amount of moves they can make to get better and they don't have the youth on their roster to improve significantly internally. If they don't get significantly better fast (ie top 3 in the East), there's a chance Giannis would want out with a season or two left on his extension.

I don't think I'm overvaluing that pick by not wanting to throw it into a trade for a 29 year old 3&D PG coming of MF surgery.

I think your overvaluing that pick by ranking it higher than the #31 in this draft.

I think the chances of Giannis demanding out from the Bucks within the next 2 years is slim. Especially when they have a proven coach in Budenholzer and most NBA analysts and experts view it as a perfect match. They have good complimentary pieces around him like Middleton, Brogdon, Bledsoe etc who will further playing within a ball movement system under Budenholzer’s. I’d assume Bud gets good production even out of guys like Maker and Snell as well.

The Bucks previous coaching staff was such a mess that the new competent hires will make that team look like night and day compared to how they were previously.

[JMac1]

I kinda like Kemba Booker back court!

[WeekapaugGroove]

I kinda like Kemba Booker back court!

It would score. Defense would be a question. It would be a hell of a lot better than the garbage we saw last year.


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[lilfishi22]

The Bucks is extremely worthless imo. I value the #31 in this draft over #24 or later in the 2020 draft.

The Bucks with Budenholzer will be one of the best teams in basketball.

It's not worthless. It's an unknown but hardly worthless. Bucks with Bud still need to prove themselves (to Giannis) before they can be considered one of the best teams in basketball. The problem with the Bucks is not Giannis or Bud but that they just don't attract FA's and their cap situation isn't too rosy. There's only a limited amount of moves they can make to get better and they don't have the youth on their roster to improve significantly internally. If they don't get significantly better fast (ie top 3 in the East), there's a chance Giannis would want out with a season or two left on his extension.

I don't think I'm overvaluing that pick by not wanting to throw it into a trade for a 29 year old 3&D PG coming of MF surgery.

I think your overvaluing that pick by ranking it higher than the #31 in this draft.

I think the chances of Giannis demanding out from the Bucks within the next 2 years is slim. Especially when they have a proven coach in Budenholzer and most NBA analysts and experts view it as a perfect match. They have good complimentary pieces around him like Middleton, Brogdon, Bledsoe etc who will further playing within a ball movement system under Budenholzer’s. I’d assume Bud gets good production even out of guys like Maker and Snell as well.

The Bucks previous coaching staff was such a mess that the new competent hires will make that team look like night and day compared to how they were previously.

I am. Because it is. That Bucks pick will *always* be a higher pick than #31 and that alone already makes it more valuable.

Regardless of what happens in Milwaukee, that pick will always be a 1st round pick while an early second will always be an early second. Everything else, my opinion of the Bucks future, your opinion of the Bucks future is subjective. Even if you're right and they get much better, that Bucks pick will still end up being a 1st round pick. If I'm right, that pick could potentially be a lotto pick. But a 1st will always be a higher pick than a 2nd rounder....that's objective.

[Revived]

It's not worthless. It's an unknown but hardly worthless. Bucks with Bud still need to prove themselves (to Giannis) before they can be considered one of the best teams in basketball. The problem with the Bucks is not Giannis or Bud but that they just don't attract FA's and their cap situation isn't too rosy. There's only a limited amount of moves they can make to get better and they don't have the youth on their roster to improve significantly internally. If they don't get significantly better fast (ie top 3 in the East), there's a chance Giannis would want out with a season or two left on his extension.

I don't think I'm overvaluing that pick by not wanting to throw it into a trade for a 29 year old 3&D PG coming of MF surgery.

I think your overvaluing that pick by ranking it higher than the #31 in this draft.

I think the chances of Giannis demanding out from the Bucks within the next 2 years is slim. Especially when they have a proven coach in Budenholzer and most NBA analysts and experts view it as a perfect match. They have good complimentary pieces around him like Middleton, Brogdon, Bledsoe etc who will further playing within a ball movement system under Budenholzer’s. I’d assume Bud gets good production even out of guys like Maker and Snell as well.

The Bucks previous coaching staff was such a mess that the new competent hires will make that team look like night and day compared to how they were previously.

I am. Because it is. That Bucks pick will *always* be a higher pick than #31 and that alone already makes it more valuable.

Regardless of what happens in Milwaukee, that pick will always be a 1st round pick while an early second will always be an early second. Everything else, my opinion of the Bucks future, your opinion of the Bucks future is subjective. Even if you're right and they get much better, that Bucks pick will still end up being a 1st round pick. If I'm right, that pick could potentially be a lotto pick. But a 1st will always be a higher pick than a 2nd rounder....that's objective.

You have to compare draft classes. For example, I think many would agree that a top 10 pick from the 2012 draft which featured players like Davis, Beal, Lillard, Barnes, Drummond etc all going in the top 10 over a top 10 pick from the 2013 draft which basically just had Oladipo and McCollum in terms of meaningful contributors.

You're banking on the Bucks not working through unrealistic possibilities imo. Sure Giannis can get hurt. Sure Budenholzer could not work out there. Sure Giannis can get hurt. But the chances of that happening are similar to that of perhaps KD/Curry have a rift and the Warriors being bad. Perhaps the players tune out Kerr like they did for half of the regular season according to him. Perhaps they develop chemistry issues with their 4 all stars wanting to be "the man".

Unlikely but possible but that wouldn't make the Warriors 1st rd pick anything but worthless as well.

Perhaps I'm too naive in thinking this draft is deeper than the one next year or the year after. Of course I can only base it off high school rankings and such which is much different from college rankings so I can definitely be wrong. But I feel the #31 in this draft is better than what I'm expecting to be #24 or later in the next two drafts, which I feel like will be relatively weak drafts in terms of how deep it is compared to this one.

[AtheJ415]

The Bucks pick next year is unlikely to transfer. It is protected 1-3 and 17-30. Bucks probably finish in the 17-30 range. Therefore we are really talking about the 2020 draft which is 1-7 protected, and a lot can change by then. They likely will have to pick between Jabari and Middleton, and probably end up losing one of Brogdon or Bledsoe to FA in these years. I wouldn't assume that pick is destined to be as bad as it seems. Hell, Giannis could try to force his way out and maybe Milwaukee relents for whatever reason. If Giannis got hurt they could fall into the 1-7 spot, meaning we get an unprotected pick in what seems to be a loaded 2021 draft along with our unprotected Miami pick.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think the lotto is strong but after that this is an average draft from there out.

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[lilfishi22]

I think your overvaluing that pick by ranking it higher than the #31 in this draft.

I think the chances of Giannis demanding out from the Bucks within the next 2 years is slim. Especially when they have a proven coach in Budenholzer and most NBA analysts and experts view it as a perfect match. They have good complimentary pieces around him like Middleton, Brogdon, Bledsoe etc who will further playing within a ball movement system under Budenholzer’s. I’d assume Bud gets good production even out of guys like Maker and Snell as well.

The Bucks previous coaching staff was such a mess that the new competent hires will make that team look like night and day compared to how they were previously.

I am. Because it is. That Bucks pick will *always* be a higher pick than #31 and that alone already makes it more valuable.

Regardless of what happens in Milwaukee, that pick will always be a 1st round pick while an early second will always be an early second. Everything else, my opinion of the Bucks future, your opinion of the Bucks future is subjective. Even if you're right and they get much better, that Bucks pick will still end up being a 1st round pick. If I'm right, that pick could potentially be a lotto pick. But a 1st will always be a higher pick than a 2nd rounder....that's objective.

You have to compare draft classes. For example, I think many would agree that a top 10 pick from the 2012 draft which featured players like Davis, Beal, Lillard, Barnes, Drummond etc all going in the top 10 over a top 10 pick from the 2013 draft which basically just had Oladipo and McCollum in terms of meaningful contributors.

You're banking on the Bucks not working through unrealistic possibilities imo. Sure Giannis can get hurt. Sure Budenholzer could not work out there. Sure Giannis can get hurt. But the chances of that happening are similar to that of perhaps KD/Curry have a rift and the Warriors being bad. Perhaps the players tune out Kerr like they did for half of the regular season according to him. Perhaps they develop chemistry issues with their 4 all stars wanting to be "the man".

Unlikely but possible but that wouldn't make the Warriors 1st rd pick anything but worthless as well.

Perhaps I'm too naive in thinking this draft is deeper than the one next year or the year after. Of course I can only base it off high school rankings and such which is much different from college rankings so I can definitely be wrong. But I feel the #31 in this draft is better than what I'm expecting to be #24 or later in the next two drafts, which I feel like will be relatively weak drafts in terms of how deep it is compared to this one.

But comparisons in terms of the "strength" of draft classes really doesn't extend past the late teens. After the late teens even in this particularly strong draft, it gets super murky and the talent is as varied as it is in every other draft. So when people say this is a strong draft, they usually mean there's a strong lotto class but after lotto, it's a total luck of the draw.

The 20-40 range of guys are just more of a crapshoot than the lotto prospects. I looked at multiple draft classes, from legendary ones (2003) to the poor ones recently (2013) and I looked at the possible minutes and games played by those guys in that 20-40 range and there's no correlation to the strength of the lotto picks.

In a legendary draft like 2003, the players drafted in the 20-40 range played 15.1% of all possible minutes and 33% of all possible games to date. In the Anthony Bennett 2013 draft, which was billed as one of the worst in recent history, those 20-40 draftees played 19.7% of all possible minutes and 45% of all possible games to date.

Other classes
2015 (KAT/DLo): 17.8% of all minutes and 49.7% of all games
2013 (Bennett/Oladipo): 19.7% of all minutes and 49.7% of all games
2012 (Davis/MKG): 17.1% of all minutes and 40.1% of all games
2011 (Kyrie/Derrick Williams): 20% of all minutes and 42.7% of all games
2008 (Rose/Beasley): 26.1% of all minutes and 51.3% of all games
2003 (Lebron/Darko): 15.1% of all minutes and 33% of all games

With regards to Milwaukee, I don't think they'll be an elite playoff team but that's neither here or there because I think we can both agree than a 1st round pick will be higher value than a 2nd round pick in every draft.

[Skillmatic]

The spurs are not trading Leonard to a western Team. The Cavs are interestet. They are looking for a third team. How about grabbing the 8th pick. Cavs want Leonard, we want the 8th pick. The Spurs want assets and maybe Love. We can offer Pick 16 and Bender ord Chriss.
With the 8th pick,there are a lot of talented Players in this draft.
What du you guys think about this trade idea?

[lilfishi22]

The Bucks pick next year is unlikely to transfer. It is protected 1-3 and 17-30. Bucks probably finish in the 17-30 range. Therefore we are really talking about the 2020 draft which is 1-7 protected, and a lot can change by then. They likely will have to pick between Jabari and Middleton, and probably end up losing one of Brogdon or Bledsoe to FA in these years. I wouldn't assume that pick is destined to be as bad as it seems. Hell, Giannis could try to force his way out and maybe Milwaukee relents for whatever reason. If Giannis got hurt they could fall into the 1-7 spot, meaning we get an unprotected pick in what seems to be a loaded 2021 draft along with our unprotected Miami pick.

Exactly. It might not turn into anything more than say #25 (super optimistic outlook for Milwaukee) but even then it's still better than #31. But if things to turn our way and Giannis wants to leave, that 2020 or 2021 pick could be something legit.

[lilfishi22]

I do agree Kemba will be a pretty good offensive player and in terms of an overall upgrade at that position for us and while I'm a little concerned about his defensive fit on this team with Booker my primary concern is more to do with the fact that he's an expiring.