NBA Draft 2018 6.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

[Truebiscuit]

I've soured on Porter, Carter, Young and Bamba. (3 out of 4 will be busts)

I'm suffering from Pre-Draft burnout and I just want the damn thing to be done and over with.
In spite of all of the wisdom to be found on this board, the reality is we are all at the mercy of Gar-Pax deciding.

I see a lot of pro-Carter posts. Really? A slow-footed BIG who doesn't move laterally very well?
That's the new NBA prototype Center? Don't think so. And I also don't want any Seniors or even Juniors.
Gar-Pax have publicly stated on numerous occasions that the plan is to get younger and more athletic, and
they had better stick to that.

Praying Porter and Young are gone by 7 to remove any temptation by Gar-Pax.
And Carter, I'm just hoping Pax is smarter than that.

To me, several of the highly touted players have some specific skill or skill set, yet don't effect winning,
or impact the game on both ends.

WCJ is not slow footed and he moves laterally just fine if you watch him play. I'm not sure where all this talk of him being some big plodding slow Center. He's not at all. He's quick IMO. He's got good feet and hips. Changes directions well. He can defend out on the perimeter and switch. He blocks shots, but can also potentially be a good solid defender on PnR. Willingness, instincts, anticipation and IQ are more important than anything when it comes to defense. I think he has all these things. He can shoot, has range, he anticipates rebounds well, finishes well. I don't see many holes in his game really.

Yup, and he's lost a lot of weight too it seems. He said he's been focused on improving his lateral quickness. A lot of 'noise' that WCJ is who we take at #7.

[kulaz3000]

For everyone who wants carter. How do the bulls match up with the celtics when they run their horford,tatum,brown,hayward,kyrie line up?

Or any team that can play one big and 4 wings/guards? Because either lauri or wendell would have to sit. Every scouting report says carter lacks lateral quickness,cannot play the 4 and struggles with pick n roll defense.

If this was 1998 Carter would be #1 on my board. Not in 2018

If you're drafting and building your team around a line up a team could possible make, then you're essentially setting yourself up for disaster.

What you're essentially saying is that we should draft any big in the draft, even if his name was Ayton - which would be absurd.

[nomorezorro]

this passage from a ringer article does a good job of making the case for carter

In the age of positionless basketball, we so often focus on a big man’s ability to defend the perimeter, which is indeed critical. But they still need to excel at defending their counterparts. The Joel Embiid, Karl-Anthony Towns, and Anthony Davis types could someday be the bigs who need to be beaten to advance to the NBA Finals. The Hamptons Five Warriors won’t last forever.

i think it's potentially misguided to focus on crafting a team that can be very switch heavy and account for multiple high-level perimeter offensive players, because that might not be the makeup of elite offensive teams 5 years from now.

here's the story, which is about valuing carter over bagley: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6/18/17473842/wendell-carter-marvin-bagley-duke-nba-draft

[kulaz3000]

this passage from a ringer article does a good job of making the case for carter

In the age of positionless basketball, we so often focus on a big man’s ability to defend the perimeter, which is indeed critical. But they still need to excel at defending their counterparts. The Joel Embiid, Karl-Anthony Towns, and Anthony Davis types could someday be the bigs who need to be beaten to advance to the NBA Finals. The Hamptons Five Warriors won’t last forever.

i think it's potentially misguided to focus on crafting a team that can be very switch heavy and account for multiple high-level perimeter offensive players, because that might not be the makeup of elite offensive teams 5 years from now.

here's the story, which is about valuing carter over bagley: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6/18/17473842/wendell-carter-marvin-bagley-duke-nba-draft

It's a point I've made numerous times. We can't build our team like the Warriors in hopes to beat them one day. With that approach, you're essentially chasing the best at what they do. What you need to do is build your own team to your own strengths, whatever they may be, and get the league to change to you - that's the only way you can change the tide in the NBA.

[blicka]

For everyone who wants carter. How do the bulls match up with the celtics when they run their horford,tatum,brown,hayward,kyrie line up?

Or any team that can play one big and 4 wings/guards? Because either lauri or wendell would have to sit. Every scouting report says carter lacks lateral quickness,cannot play the 4 and struggles with pick n roll defense.

If this was 1998 Carter would be #1 on my board. Not in 2018

You hope that Carter exceeds expectations and becomes a great center for us. Then you figured out the SF spot with either the 22nd pick, free agency, or next years draft.

Chances are the Bulls won't be able to match up with the Celtics next year no matter what roster moves are made this offseason.

Celtics are gonna be around for a while though. Tatum and brown are 20 and 21,hayward 28,irving 26 they get the kings pick next year if it's not #1

That's just one example. The rockets took gobert completely out the series playing small they switched until gobert was on harden or cp3 and took turns blowing past him,getting him off balance then pulling up for mid range or step back 3's & when help came they kicked it out for open 3's,warriors did the same with capela(partially because he has no range and was clogging the space) and both are more nimble than carter for bigs, pj tucker was playing the 5 in the 4th quarters of those games.

[League Circles]

For everyone who wants carter. How do the bulls match up with the celtics when they run their horford,tatum,brown,hayward,kyrie line up?

Or any team that can play one big and 4 wings/guards? Because either lauri or wendell would have to sit. Every scouting report says carter lacks lateral quickness,cannot play the 4 and struggles with pick n roll defense.

If this was 1998 Carter would be #1 on my board. Not in 2018

I disagree about Carter being slow laterally, but let's say he is. How is Boston going to matchup with us? How is Tatum going to stop Lauri? Mismatches go both ways typically, unless a guy actually can play multiple positions on both O akd D, like Lebron.

[League Circles]

For everyone who wants carter. How do the bulls match up with the celtics when they run their horford,tatum,brown,hayward,kyrie line up?

Or any team that can play one big and 4 wings/guards? Because either lauri or wendell would have to sit. Every scouting report says carter lacks lateral quickness,cannot play the 4 and struggles with pick n roll defense.

If this was 1998 Carter would be #1 on my board. Not in 2018

You hope that Carter exceeds expectations and becomes a great center for us. Then you figured out the SF spot with either the 22nd pick, free agency, or next years draft.

Chances are the Bulls won't be able to match up with the Celtics next year no matter what roster moves are made this offseason.

Celtics are gonna be around for a while though. Tatum and brown are 20 and 21,hayward 28,irving 26 they get the kings pick next year if it's not #1

That's just one example. The rockets took gobert completely out the series playing small they switched until gobert was on harden or cp3 and destroyed him, when help came they kicked it out for open 3's,warriors did the same with capela(partially because he has no range and was clogging the space) and both are more nimble than carter for bigs, pj tucker was playing the 5 in the 4th quarters of those games.

I'm as big of a Rudy gobert fan as there is but the key thing here is that gobert has really no scoring game of his own accord. So he is not really able to punish on those mismatches. Carter has a legit postgame and is also a good shooter and same with Lauri so if a small guy is trying to guard one of them they have to be developed and coached to punish that player in the post. Or shoot over them.

[Dan Z]

You hope that Carter exceeds expectations and becomes a great center for us. Then you figured out the SF spot with either the 22nd pick, free agency, or next years draft.

Chances are the Bulls won't be able to match up with the Celtics next year no matter what roster moves are made this offseason.

Celtics are gonna be around for a while though. Tatum and brown are 20 and 21,hayward 28,irving 26 they get the kings pick next year if it's not #1

That's just one example. The rockets took gobert completely out the series playing small they switched until gobert was on harden or cp3 and destroyed him, when help came they kicked it out for open 3's,warriors did the same with capela(partially because he has no range and was clogging the space) and both are more nimble than carter for bigs, pj tucker was playing the 5 in the 4th quarters of those games.

I'm as big of a Rudy gobert fan as there is but the key thing here is that gobert has really no scoring game of his own accord. So he is not really able to punish on those mismatches. Carter has a legit postgame and is also a good shooter and same with Lauri so if a small guy is trying to guard one of them they have to be developed and coached to punish that player in the post. Or shoot over them.

I'd like to add...the Bulls most likely aren't going to figure out the wing positions in one offseason. Maybe they get lucky with one in the draft or a FA signing, but chances are we'll still need to add there in the future.

[Red Larrivee]

The idea that Carter doesn't fit the "new" direction of centers is funny. He defends, rebounds, shoots, finishes and passes all at respectable levels (at the least). He's a solid athlete and moves well overall. His biggest concern is whether he defend east/west in space against smaller guards. But, the issue isn't as much about mobility as it may be about technique.

[RememberLu]

I still question why the draft is scheduled for Thursday at 6. Wouldn't they get more viewers if the draft was scheduled at 7? Or even better, on Saturday, when everyone has a day off.

[bennjuiced34]

Carter also lost like 20 lbs right? So feasibly he's quicker and more explosive. Idk, it's possible I'm overlooking a guy who could wind up to be really **** good.

[Truebiscuit]

Carter also lost like 20 lbs right? So feasibly he's quicker and more explosive. Idk, it's possible I'm overlooking a guy who could wind up to be really **** good.

He almost looks thin:

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[johnnyvann840]

If the guy you pick is a bust, you will have another chance next year. The tank ends when you have a star.

And what if you don't get a star? It's not cut and dry. There is huge downside to perennial losing.

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Especially with the new lottery rules. The idea of perennial tanking is idiotic. You get a decent team and at least you have a chance to attract more talent and maybe even a star. Or, you could get a Jimmy Butler late in the draft. Or even a Giannis, or a Kawhi level player at 15. Or a Draymond Green or Jokic level player even in the 2nd round. Nobody knows for sure. But to take the approach that it's no big deal if the player you take in the top 7 is a bust and you'll just take another crack at it next year... and then the next.

Even if you get a Giannis, or somebody like that, it doesn't guarantee you are all of a sudden a contender. You have a decent team first and then get the star and then put the remaining pieces around that star. You start with crap and you are just that much further away from being close.

[Leslie Forman]

It's a point I've made numerous times. We can't build our team like the Warriors in hopes to beat them one day. With that approach, you're essentially chasing the best at what they do. What you need to do is build your own team to your own strengths, whatever they may be, and get the league to change to you - that's the only way you can change the tide in the NBA.

It's not about trying to be the Warriors. It's about building a title winner that doesn't have a Hakeem Olajuwon or Tim Duncan in the middle.

Unless you have an absolutely transcendental two-way big man, you should focus all of your attention on building a versatile, well rounded team. This is not some dumb trend, this is basketball. This is how this franchise won its six titles two decades ago.

Color me skeptical about a Markkanen/Carter frontcourt somehow being what breaks this current NBA.

[drosestruts]

Still just don't know how the Suns hire Doncic's coach, but then don't draft Doncic. Seems like a natural fit.

[boozapalooza]

If Bagleys there at 3 or 4 I think we move up for him. Best offensive big and special on offense in general. Plenty of videos of him tearing up the Drew league as a high schooler out there. Him and Lauri could be special out there on offense.

[blicka]

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/18/wendell-carter-nba-draft-2018-scouting-report-highlights-strengths-mock-draft

Weaknesses

• Lacks great quickness off the floor. Can have trouble finishing in traffic and when defense has time to get set. Underwhelming post-up scoring efficiency (0.753 points per possession).
[b]
• Lateral agility is average. May have issues defending in space in wide-open play. Probably needs to defend centers.
[/b]
• Without elite athletic ability star upside may be capped, though he should be extremely serviceable regardless.

https://www.thestepien.com/wendell-carter/

Does fine sliding in space in east-west direction, but looks slow footed when forced to rapidly change direction north-south. Might struggle to contain quicker players in pick-and-roll.
Slightly undersized for a Center at 6’10. Can protect rim some but still gets finished over a fair amount with only average size and leaping combination. Runs the risk of teams playing him at power forward, where he would be a less good fit.
Still needs time and space on his outside shot. Quicker release than some big guys but noticeably struggles when he’s forced to speed up his release.
Good passer in most situations but doesn’t always handle post-doubles well. He doesn’t have the size to easily see over the top and can get rushed under pressure.
Not a dynamic leaper or elite crafty finisher. Strength and footwork allow him to finish well but will face some issues against NBA length.

[MisterRoy]

Still just don't know how the Suns hire Doncic's coach, but then don't draft Doncic. Seems like a natural fit.

Well, no other team can hire him then. Haha.


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[Edvedder10]

If Bagleys there at 3 or 4 I think we move up for him. Best offensive big and special on offense in general. Plenty of videos of him tearing up the Drew league as a high schooler out there. Him and Lauri could be special out there on offense.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere a month ago Bulls FO felt Bagley fit best with Lauri

[TheSuzerain]

this passage from a ringer article does a good job of making the case for carter

In the age of positionless basketball, we so often focus on a big man’s ability to defend the perimeter, which is indeed critical. But they still need to excel at defending their counterparts. The Joel Embiid, Karl-Anthony Towns, and Anthony Davis types could someday be the bigs who need to be beaten to advance to the NBA Finals. The Hamptons Five Warriors won’t last forever.

i think it's potentially misguided to focus on crafting a team that can be very switch heavy and account for multiple high-level perimeter offensive players, because that might not be the makeup of elite offensive teams 5 years from now.

here's the story, which is about valuing carter over bagley: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6/18/17473842/wendell-carter-marvin-bagley-duke-nba-draft

It's a point I've made numerous times. We can't build our team like the Warriors in hopes to beat them one day. With that approach, you're essentially chasing the best at what they do. What you need to do is build your own team to your own strengths, whatever they may be, and get the league to change to you - that's the only way you can change the tide in the NBA.

I disagree. To me, league wide trends are dictated by changes to the rules and coaching breakthroughs rather than personnel. Thibs and D’Antoni are far more influential than this Warriors team.

If we’re looking to set new trends in the league, then we should start by dumping the coaching staff.

Of the 3 bigs listed, 2 weren’t knocked out by the Warriors.