Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

[AtheJ415]

Yeah, we were just talking #1...of course you take him if you keep 1. But if it was just the 1, it's tough...however if you could then turn Jackson into a really good big or a pick high enough to get one of the good bigs, that would make more sense, since Jackson makes less sense if you have Kawhi. I'm not sure how high of a pick he would net though...or what type of big.

I'm just skeptical because he cannot extend here now. And so if he is making the decision next offseason anyways, wouldn't he, if he truly would consider staying here long term, prefer to play WITH Ayton instead of on the same team without him? I don't see the benefit from our perspective or his in making this trade. If he wants out of SA for this season, going elsewhere in the East would allow him to contend for a year. Then, if he really wanted to stay West near LA and viewed our core as the best of that group, he can sign next season so long as we don't blow our salary cap this offseason.

Also, I expect Ayton to be a top 5 center from Day 1, with the potential to be a lot higher.

Sure it's better to sign him in FA but I doubt we have the cap space. Now if they have figured out a way to carve that space and get Booker to not sign an extension until next offseason I'm all for it. I'll be surprised if he waits and if we don't sign any free agents that last longer than a year though.

In this scenario where we are discussing trading for him we would have access to his agent and him. Because we wouldn't trade #1 with no idea of his thoughts on extending. So after the Spurs let you gauge his interest on coming here, all you have to do is ask him, then ask Booker. It isn't rocket science. We could easily clear that cap with our boatload of future firsts. Decline anybody whose contract is guaranteed in 2 years who isn't Booker, Ayton, Jackson, Warren, Chriss, Bender. Next year when Duds and Chandler are gone, that frees up a lot so long as Booker hasn't signed, which in this scenario he wouldn't have. Booker shouldn't care so long as he trusts us because the extension wouldn't kick in until next year anyways.

All you have to do is decline Williams, let go of rights to Dudley, Chandler, Daniels. Maybe Reed, Ulis, Harrison too if needed but right there with just Williams and the old guys you are already at about $44 million in cap holds released. We will have Ayton and the others eating into that, but if we are disciplined this offseason it is very doable.

Regardless, Kawhi isn't going to want to play here on a team that's core was the worst in basketball next year. Why the hell would he want to do that? To join that core with Ayton and whoever else we get in this draft? That makes more sense. But it is very possible to get the cap space for Kawhi next offseason if we are disciplined and keep our future picks to dump salary, which is a hell of a lot less costly than giving up Deandre Ayton.

[AtheJ415]

I just did the same thing. Outside of 5 Dimes it doesn't look like there is any real action. Bovada doesn't have us on their board and the Lakers are -135.

Lurking to see if there's anything to the Kawhi rumor. There is no way for the Bovada line to move without the Suns available to bet on. I saw the 5dimes site, currently +330 for suns, -490 for field. Are there any other sites with live lines?

I was looking to see if there was a significant shift for anyone. Lakers are still big favorites. I think we got a shot at Ball in a three team if we take on Dent and give up a first.

No way would I give up a first. The Lakers set the market last year by unloading Russell, a better player than Ball, to get rid of Mozgov, a better contract than Deng. So if we do this worst case scenario we should just be getting Ball and Deng without giving up a damn thing other than true salary filler.

[jcsunsfan]

I was thinking about this on my drive home from work. If you could guarantee one Suns championship with Book/Kawhi/Leonard and go another couple times deep with those three and then roll the dice with Book and Leonard after that for awhile (maybe 5 years)...would you take THAT, or having Book/Jackson/Ayton (or Doncic) for the next 10-15 years and roll the dice? I wonder what would win in a poll.

I've always liked watching homegrown so I'd probably go for it. It would be exciting for a bit but being another stop on the LeBron tour....I think I'd rather have our own stars for a long stretch.

Though I think if we could get a re-signed Kawhi without trading the #1 pick or Booker you have to do it.

totally agree. a core of Booker/Kawhi/Ayton is worth it now and in the long run

If you can get Kawhi without giving up Ayton - meaning Jackson, 16 the Heat pick - of course you do. hell i would take Patty Mills in that type of scenario. I just don't see the SPurs taking Kawhi for anything but the top pick. I know I would

But if you could get Kawhi and Patty Mills for Jackson, Warren (Bender or Chriss) - plus the 16 plus the Bucks and Heat picks - heart beat

something like this - might even take Gasol to not give up Ayton

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7070920

One other thing - there is probably only one team, supposedly that Kawhi is signing with long -term which might mean the offers are not as good as one would think

Kahwi is not going to give any team any guarantees. So all you are trading for is a Kahwi rental. I am out.

[AtheJ415]

I do agree Kemba will be a pretty good offensive player and in terms of an overall upgrade at that position for us and while I'm a little concerned about his defensive fit on this team with Booker my primary concern is more to do with the fact that he's an expiring.

I don't see the point in giving up much for Kemba given all of that. And truthfully with the amount of PGs flooding the market soon I don't see the rush. Goran should be moved soon. Lillard or McCollum might be moved in the next 2 years. Lowry looks like he might get moved though his salary sucks. Let's not jump at the first good PG who becomes available. I am fine with Kemba but as I've said before, he needs to come here really cheap.

[SideSwipe]

Jackson, 18 #16, 19 PHX #1 (top3), Bender, Chandler for Kawhi

I wouldnt take that offer for Booker, let alone a player like Kawhi!

For an expiring fresh off of suspect circumstances and an injury in addition to a trade request? Yeah, that's a very good package. I'd look at going higher but I won't break the bank. It includes two players they have coveted, immediate salary relief as well as additional expiring salary. Paul George is available for cap space.

[lilfishi22]

I do agree Kemba will be a pretty good offensive player and in terms of an overall upgrade at that position for us and while I'm a little concerned about his defensive fit on this team with Booker my primary concern is more to do with the fact that he's an expiring.

I don't see the point in giving up much for Kemba given all of that. And truthfully with the amount of PGs flooding the market soon I don't see the rush. Goran should be moved soon. Lillard or McCollum might be moved in the next 2 years. Lowry looks like he might get moved though his salary sucks. Let's not jump at the first good PG who becomes available. I am fine with Kemba but as I've said before, he needs to come here really cheap.

Which is why I'm not onboard with getting Kemba. He's a clear upgrade over what we've had the past couple seasons (yes, better than Bledsoe) and he's been an all-star the last two seasons as well so he's certainly worthy of some sort of package we have. But I just don't want to have to deal with an expiring contract because it means we're locking ourselves to Kemba for at least the medium term. I don't really want to do that. I prefer Goran even if he's more expensive because he's locked in for one more seasons and we know what he brings. I like his size, I like his familiarity with the Suns and with Igor and I like his skillset.

[lilfishi22]

Nobody wants to come here....YET.

Let's pair Ayton with JJ, Booker, TJ, and perhaps a young PG and then see who wants to come here in a few years.

Bronny Jr

[jredsaz]

I'm just skeptical because he cannot extend here now. And so if he is making the decision next offseason anyways, wouldn't he, if he truly would consider staying here long term, prefer to play WITH Ayton instead of on the same team without him? I don't see the benefit from our perspective or his in making this trade. If he wants out of SA for this season, going elsewhere in the East would allow him to contend for a year. Then, if he really wanted to stay West near LA and viewed our core as the best of that group, he can sign next season so long as we don't blow our salary cap this offseason.

Also, I expect Ayton to be a top 5 center from Day 1, with the potential to be a lot higher.

Sure it's better to sign him in FA but I doubt we have the cap space. Now if they have figured out a way to carve that space and get Booker to not sign an extension until next offseason I'm all for it. I'll be surprised if he waits and if we don't sign any free agents that last longer than a year though.

In this scenario where we are discussing trading for him we would have access to his agent and him. Because we wouldn't trade #1 with no idea of his thoughts on extending. So after the Spurs let you gauge his interest on coming here, all you have to do is ask him, then ask Booker. It isn't rocket science. We could easily clear that cap with our boatload of future firsts. Decline anybody whose contract is guaranteed in 2 years who isn't Booker, Ayton, Jackson, Warren, Chriss, Bender. Next year when Duds and Chandler are gone, that frees up a lot so long as Booker hasn't signed, which in this scenario he wouldn't have. Booker shouldn't care so long as he trusts us because the extension wouldn't kick in until next year anyways.

All you have to do is decline Williams, let go of rights to Dudley, Chandler, Daniels. Maybe Reed, Ulis, Harrison too if needed but right there with just Williams and the old guys you are already at about $44 million in cap holds released. We will have Ayton and the others eating into that, but if we are disciplined this offseason it is very doable.

Regardless, Kawhi isn't going to want to play here on a team that's core was the worst in basketball next year. Why the hell would he want to do that? To join that core with Ayton and whoever else we get in this draft? That makes more sense. But it is very possible to get the cap space for Kawhi next offseason if we are disciplined and keep our future picks to dump salary, which is a hell of a lot less costly than giving up Deandre Ayton.

If the plan is to use future firsts to clear space next off-season why wouldn't you just use those same assets and expiering salaries to trade for the player now.

[Revived]

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[lilfishi22]

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+ Tobias Harris

Done deal

[AtheJ415]

Sure it's better to sign him in FA but I doubt we have the cap space. Now if they have figured out a way to carve that space and get Booker to not sign an extension until next offseason I'm all for it. I'll be surprised if he waits and if we don't sign any free agents that last longer than a year though.

In this scenario where we are discussing trading for him we would have access to his agent and him. Because we wouldn't trade #1 with no idea of his thoughts on extending. So after the Spurs let you gauge his interest on coming here, all you have to do is ask him, then ask Booker. It isn't rocket science. We could easily clear that cap with our boatload of future firsts. Decline anybody whose contract is guaranteed in 2 years who isn't Booker, Ayton, Jackson, Warren, Chriss, Bender. Next year when Duds and Chandler are gone, that frees up a lot so long as Booker hasn't signed, which in this scenario he wouldn't have. Booker shouldn't care so long as he trusts us because the extension wouldn't kick in until next year anyways.

All you have to do is decline Williams, let go of rights to Dudley, Chandler, Daniels. Maybe Reed, Ulis, Harrison too if needed but right there with just Williams and the old guys you are already at about $44 million in cap holds released. We will have Ayton and the others eating into that, but if we are disciplined this offseason it is very doable.

Regardless, Kawhi isn't going to want to play here on a team that's core was the worst in basketball next year. Why the hell would he want to do that? To join that core with Ayton and whoever else we get in this draft? That makes more sense. But it is very possible to get the cap space for Kawhi next offseason if we are disciplined and keep our future picks to dump salary, which is a hell of a lot less costly than giving up Deandre Ayton.

If the plan is to use future firsts to clear space next off-season why wouldn't you just use those same assets and expiering salaries to trade for the player now.

Because what I'm discussing is not the same assets, and because the Spurs probably aren't interested in our future firsts so much as Ayton and Jackson, and what we would be talking about with SAS if we could get him without those is a lot of our firsts, if not all of them. I am talking about at most 2 to move Knight if we had to next offseason. That is much better than moving 2 with Dudley or Chandler who would be expiring next offseason anyways, because then we are still stuck with Knight's deal just to get out of expiring contracts to sign a player who is an FA at the same time those expirings expire. What is the point of that?

Dudley and Chandler are not problems next offseason. We just renounce the bird rights and their cap holds disappear. So we're talking about dumping at worst a guy like Warren, who ought to be able to be moved as at least a neutral contract, but more likely really small deals or Knight. So really the only problem guy to dump is Knight, but we shouldn't even have to get to that point if we just renounce Dudley and CHandler's bird rights and don't pick up the options on our bottom bench guys (Ulis, Harrison, etc.). If we did want to keep those guys and instead move Knight, he will be expiring the next offseason and we have the Bucks, Heat, and our picks to offer. 1-2 of those should be all it really takes for a rebuilding team that has cap space and wants the pick.

[thamadkant]

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Brandon Awadis is a spastic. Mute him

[thamadkant]

That Kawhi trade has to be just to boost the bets for the Suns....

You never trade a top pick in an apparently epic draft class for a player expiring and wanting to play for another team

[Years90Suns]

I just hope all this you are talking about is bull.

It is the same story all over again.

Two summers ago we kept talking about Aldridge. He ended up somewhere else and we lost a lot of time with that transaction and did not get any other reinforcement.

Then last summer we had a similar story (I do not remember the name of the FA then).

Now it is Kawhi.

I just hope this is bull and McD is really working on other things so we can improve the team, but mainly we can build the future.

Getting Kawhi now, even IF h is healthy, even IF he resigns in a year and even IF he is motivated to play here, is stupid. You do not give away a pick 1 and a pick 3, basically, for a 27 year old that has not played in a year.

We should take this progress step by step.

I admit we can reinforce the team by adding some veteran pieces. But a blow-out trade like this makes no sense at all.

[Qwigglez]

It's just fluff talk. My hope is we take Ayton with the No 1 pick, trade the 16th pick along with other assets for a PG (Kemba, Dragic, D'Lo, Schroder, Lillard). Maybe upgrade our PF position if free agency allows us, however I'm willing to see how Bender & or Chriss develop alongside Ayton.

[jsierra1985]

It's just fluff talk. My hope is we take Ayton with the No 1 pick, trade the 16th pick along with other assets for a PG (Kemba, Dragic, D'Lo, Schroder, Lillard). Maybe upgrade our PF position if free agency allows us, however I'm willing to see how Bender & or Chriss develop alongside Ayton.

Ayton with the first pick and hopeful we trade for a proven vet at the guard position. Team is in dire need of some vet leadership and some talent in general. The point guard position is atrocious and if they roll into the season with B.Knight as there starting PG I will be pretty pissed about it. They need to be all in at this point now that they will have a core of Ayton/Jackson/booker..They have enough young prospects already on the team....go after an all star to help this team get into the playoffs

[Hesh]

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Looks like TJ is not going to the next team BBQ at his place

[Saberestar]

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That trade is awful for the Suns.

[Hesh]

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That trade is awful for the Suns.

and he calls himself a diehard suns fan, right?

[BobbieL]

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Clippers can waive BEverly outright for cash savings. Teams know this. Yet, if healthy and other options were explored, I would give up the 31 for Beverly as long as you drafted a point guard at 16 to give him a year to learn with Beverly