Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money"

[Valid]

Wanamaker can play. Lefty slasher. He beat the Celtics almost singlehandedly in an exhibition game a few years ago. The question is whether or not Boston can come up with a more attractive package than FCS Barcelona, which can offer far more perks than an NBA team plus a much shorter season plus the attractiveness of Barcelona as a place to live.

Didn’t Larkin turn down big bucks last year to stay in Europe for another shot stateside though?

Yeah. Larkin did turn down more money. As Did Baynes, and I'm sure Theis, as well.

Possible, but the Theis news came out around this time last year.\

EDIT: Just checked, the news we signed Theis was on June 19, 2017

Hmmm, that surprised me, we didn't sign him until a month later. I think Larkin was a done deal before I even heard of it.

This does look like a good deal to replace Larkin. Larkin came back from Europe have an opportunity at a nice NBA payday so he will almost certainly leave the Celtics and get one, and deserve it.

Larkin may, in fact, be looking for a much deserved payday, and more playing time, and involvement.
But, if he wants a ring. = He should stay put.

Yeah I really want Larkin back. Perfect third-string point guard. Plays his role, defends well, can hit the perimeter shot and can blow by defenders. He also runs the pick-and-roll really well. We actually really missed him against Cleveland.

[Valid]

Feel like this is a good chance to say I have no interest in bringing Larkin back. He's just not durable.

Yeah but how much durability do you really need from your third-string PG? Heck, you can even argue he is our fourth-string PG with Kyrie, Rozier and Smart (assuming we bring back Smart).

[Parliament10]

Horford/Baynes/Spellman
Tatum/Morris/Theis
Hayward/Morris/Semi
Brown/Rozier/Bird
Irving/Smart/Wannamaker

Yabu traded for a second, Nader waived, Allen and said second rounder on 2 way contracts

Why Trade Yabusele? -- He's still got upside in him.
Now Nader, you can Trade him for a 2nd.

Horford / Baynes / ------------ / Rookie (2-Way)
Tatum - / Theis -- / Yabusele
Hayward / Morris / Semi
Brown / Smart -- / Bird
Irving / Rozier -- / Wannamaker / Allen (2-Way)

[Homerclease]

Horford/Baynes/Spellman
Tatum/Morris/Theis
Hayward/Morris/Semi
Brown/Rozier/Bird
Irving/Smart/Wannamaker

Yabu traded for a second, Nader waived, Allen and said second rounder on 2 way contracts

Why Trade Yabusele? -- He's still got upside in him.
Now Nader, you can Trade him for a 2nd.

Horford / Baynes / --------- / Rookie (2-Way)
Tatum / Theis / Yabusele
Hayward / Morris / Semi
Brown / Smart / Bird
Irving / Rozier / Wannamaker / Allen (2-Way)

Nobody is giving you a second for Nader. You might get one for Yabu and save some money while you’re at it

[Parliament10]

Horford/Baynes/Spellman
Tatum/Morris/Theis
Hayward/Morris/Semi
Brown/Rozier/Bird
Irving/Smart/Wannamaker

Yabu traded for a second, Nader waived, Allen and said second rounder on 2 way contracts

Why Trade Yabusele? -- He's still got upside in him.
Now Nader, you can Trade him for a 2nd.

Horford / Baynes / --------- / Rookie (2-Way)
Tatum / Theis / Yabusele
Hayward / Morris / Semi
Brown / Smart / Bird
Irving / Rozier / Wannamaker / Allen (2-Way)

Nobody is giving you a second for Nader. You might get one for Yabu and save some money while you’re at it

Yabusele was a 16th pick. I doubt that Ainge bails on him now, for a 2nd Rounder.
Yabusele has at least one more year, to prove himself.

[Valid]

Why Trade Yabusele? -- He's still got upside in him.
Now Nader, you can Trade him for a 2nd.

Horford / Baynes / --------- / Rookie (2-Way)
Tatum / Theis / Yabusele
Hayward / Morris / Semi
Brown / Smart / Bird
Irving / Rozier / Wannamaker / Allen (2-Way)

Nobody is giving you a second for Nader. You might get one for Yabu and save some money while you’re at it

Yabusele was a 16th pick. I doubt that Ainge bails on him now, for a 2nd.
Yabusele has at least one more year, to prove himself.

Yeah. I don't think Danny moves Yabu right now (unless it's part of a deal for someone like Kawhi, of course). The dude hasn't gotten much of a chance yet. Let's remember that it took Rozier until year three to really break out and he didn't really get an opportunity until his second year. Yabu needs at least one more season.

[Parliament10]

Nobody is giving you a second for Nader. You might get one for Yabu and save some money while you’re at it

Yabusele was a 16th pick. I doubt that Ainge bails on him now, for a 2nd.
Yabusele has at least one more year, to prove himself.

Yeah. I don't think Danny moves Yabu right now (unless it's part of a deal for someone like Kawhi, of course). The dude hasn't gotten much of a chance yet. Let's remember that it took Rozier until year three to really break out and he didn't really get an opportunity until his second year. Yabu needs at least one more season.

Depending upon how the cards fall, he might get 2 more years.
It may take that.

[djFan71]

Feel like this is a good chance to say I have no interest in bringing Larkin back. He's just not durable.

Yeah but how much durability do you really need from your third-string PG? Heck, you can even argue he is our fourth-string PG with Kyrie, Rozier and Smart (assuming we bring back Smart).

Isn't that the whole point of a 4th guard? Be available when your top 3 aren't? And he just never was. He was great as a change of pace guard when we went 4 deep in some games that everyone else was available. Had plenty of healthy DNPs. But when Marcus punched the frame, Larkin's knee was sore. When Kyrie and Marcus both went down, he got the flu or something and had to be hospitalized(?!?!??). Then he ran into Embiid and was out the rest of the playoffs when we could have used a 3rd guard.

Obviously some unfortunate timing involved, but those are 3 extended absences off the top of my head when he wasn't there when we needed him.

[Darth Celtic]

Yabusele was a 16th pick. I doubt that Ainge bails on him now, for a 2nd.
Yabusele has at least one more year, to prove himself.

Yeah. I don't think Danny moves Yabu right now (unless it's part of a deal for someone like Kawhi, of course). The dude hasn't gotten much of a chance yet. Let's remember that it took Rozier until year three to really break out and he didn't really get an opportunity until his second year. Yabu needs at least one more season.

Depending upon how the cards fall, he might get 2 more years.
It may take that.

D Green was in his 3 year and age 24/25 the year he became a starter.

Yabs was a rookie at 21/22. I'd say wait 2 years before we write him off. Maybe even 3.

[Parliament10]

Feel like this is a good chance to say I have no interest in bringing Larkin back. He's just not durable.

Yeah but how much durability do you really need from your third-string PG? Heck, you can even argue he is our fourth-string PG with Kyrie, Rozier and Smart (assuming we bring back Smart).

Isn't that the whole point of a 4th guard? Be available when your top 3 aren't? And he just never was. He was great as a change of pace guard when we went 4 deep in some games that everyone else was available. Had plenty of healthy DNPs. But when Marcus punched the frame, Larkin's knee was sore. When Kyrie and Marcus both went down, he got the flu or something and had to be hospitalized(?!?!??). Then he ran into Embiid and was out the rest of the playoffs when we could have used a 3rd guard.

Obviously some unfortunate timing involved, but those are 3 extended absences off the top of my head when he wasn't there when we needed him.

What is the likelihood that 3 PG's/Combo's would all go down at the same time?
Larkin, is a 2nd Unit caliber player.

He doesn't even need to be on this team.
He got injured, just like 90% of the team.

[djFan71]

Yeah but how much durability do you really need from your third-string PG? Heck, you can even argue he is our fourth-string PG with Kyrie, Rozier and Smart (assuming we bring back Smart).

Isn't that the whole point of a 4th guard? Be available when your top 3 aren't? And he just never was. He was great as a change of pace guard when we went 4 deep in some games that everyone else was available. Had plenty of healthy DNPs. But when Marcus punched the frame, Larkin's knee was sore. When Kyrie and Marcus both went down, he got the flu or something and had to be hospitalized(?!?!??). Then he ran into Embiid and was out the rest of the playoffs when we could have used a 3rd guard.

Obviously some unfortunate timing involved, but those are 3 extended absences off the top of my head when he wasn't there when we needed him.

What is the likelihood that 3 PG's/Combo's would all go down at the same time?
Larkin, is a 2nd Unit caliber player.

He doesn't even need to be on this team.
He got injured, just like 90% of the team.

You want your 4th guard available even if only 1 guard ahead of them goes down. And he's a little dude that's not particularly tough & wiry. I don't think it's going to be out of character for him to be injured next time we need him either. None of his injuries (hospital visit excepted, maybe...) would have kept other guys from playing. Like Terry. Or Gary Payton back in the day. Or, dare I say, LeBron, even.

I'm also not sure I agree he's 2nd unit caliber. I mean, sure he can play 10-15 mpg on a 2nd unit, but he's not like top tier 2nd unit good. There are plenty of guards out there that would be as good/better and more available. Even off the old, vet min UFA scrap heap I'd say any of Devon Harris, Jarrett Jack, Aaron Brooks, Tim Frazier, Jameer Nelson, Raymond Felton, Ramon Sessions, etc could give you roughly the same production. Gimme whichever comes cheapest and has the best history of availability. (I haven't checked that list to see injury history or anything, but at least one of them has to be fairly available).

All that said, it's more a pet peeve of mine than an "I hate Larkin" thing. Availability is the best ability and all. If Danny brings him back, I'll live with it somehow.

[cloverleaf]

Yeah. I don't think Danny moves Yabu right now (unless it's part of a deal for someone like Kawhi, of course). The dude hasn't gotten much of a chance yet. Let's remember that it took Rozier until year three to really break out and he didn't really get an opportunity until his second year. Yabu needs at least one more season.

Depending upon how the cards fall, he might get 2 more years.
It may take that.

D Green was in his 3 year and age 24/25 the year he became a starter.

Yabs was a rookie at 21/22. I'd say wait 2 years before we write him off. Maybe even 3.

I so want to see a skinny Yabs show up in Vegas. Don't want to see him fast-tracked on the Sully train to China.

[cloverleaf]

Why Trade Yabusele? -- He's still got upside in him.
Now Nader, you can Trade him for a 2nd.

Horford / Baynes / --------- / Rookie (2-Way)
Tatum / Theis / Yabusele
Hayward / Morris / Semi
Brown / Smart / Bird
Irving / Rozier / Wannamaker / Allen (2-Way)

Nobody is giving you a second for Nader. You might get one for Yabu and save some money while you’re at it

Yabusele was a 16th pick. I doubt that Ainge bails on him now, for a 2nd Rounder.
Yabusele has at least one more year, to prove himself.

TRo was a #16.

[djFan71]

Yeah. I don't think Danny moves Yabu right now (unless it's part of a deal for someone like Kawhi, of course). The dude hasn't gotten much of a chance yet. Let's remember that it took Rozier until year three to really break out and he didn't really get an opportunity until his second year. Yabu needs at least one more season.

Depending upon how the cards fall, he might get 2 more years.
It may take that.

D Green was in his 3 year and age 24/25 the year he became a starter.

Yabs was a rookie at 21/22. I'd say wait 2 years before we write him off. Maybe even 3.

I think he stays around until he doesn't.... We're a better team now, so it's going to be harder to break in.

Kyrie/Jaylen/Jayson/Gordon/Al
Smart/Rozier/Morris/Theis/Baynes
vet PG, Semi

That's 12 right there. Then you have a grab bag of #27/Bird/Yabs/Nader/vet min/undrafted FA

Then next year you have at least 2 more picks. One a pretty high one.

So, it's going to be tough for him to break in, barring a major consolidation trade. But, keep him around in case a) you need that salary for said trade, or b) you need bodies after it. If he rolls off after his rookie deal, shrug.

[Darth Celtic]

Depending upon how the cards fall, he might get 2 more years.
It may take that.

D Green was in his 3 year and age 24/25 the year he became a starter.

Yabs was a rookie at 21/22. I'd say wait 2 years before we write him off. Maybe even 3.

I think he stays around until he doesn't.... We're a better team now, so it's going to be harder to break in.

Kyrie/Jaylen/Jayson/Gordon/Al
Smart/Rozier/Morris/Theis/Baynes
vet PG, Semi

That's 12 right there. Then you have a grab bag of #27/Bird/Yabs/Nader/vet min/undrafted FA

Then next year you have at least 2 more picks. One a pretty high one.

So, it's going to be tough for him to break in, barring a major consolidation trade. But, keep him around in case a) you need that salary for said trade, or b) you need bodies after it. If he rolls off after his rookie deal, shrug.

Next year we'll have a better idea, and his salary will be 3.1m for trade purposes, making it easier to match trade salaries. Now, if he completely busts this year, we can just not pick up his option.

[Homerclease]

Yabusele was a 16th pick. I doubt that Ainge bails on him now, for a 2nd.
Yabusele has at least one more year, to prove himself.

Yeah. I don't think Danny moves Yabu right now (unless it's part of a deal for someone like Kawhi, of course). The dude hasn't gotten much of a chance yet. Let's remember that it took Rozier until year three to really break out and he didn't really get an opportunity until his second year. Yabu needs at least one more season.

Depending upon how the cards fall, he might get 2 more years.
It may take that.

Maybe we should’ve kept James Young and RJ Hunter around too. Hell, they gave Hunter the axe for Green after a single season. Yabu has had two since he was drafted now and has shown even less than those guys. The party is over with this slob. Cut our losses and get a second round pick costs half the price and may actually help one day

[Valid]

Yeah. I don't think Danny moves Yabu right now (unless it's part of a deal for someone like Kawhi, of course). The dude hasn't gotten much of a chance yet. Let's remember that it took Rozier until year three to really break out and he didn't really get an opportunity until his second year. Yabu needs at least one more season.

Depending upon how the cards fall, he might get 2 more years.
It may take that.

Maybe we should’ve kept James Young and RJ Hunter around too. Hell, they gave Hunter the axe for Green after a single season. Yabu has had two since he was drafted now and has shown even less than those guys. The party is over with this slob. Cut our losses and get a second round pick costs half the price and may actually help one day

He's had one season. He didn't even play in 2016-17 and it was obvious that the Celtics never even planned on him playing that season.

This is just bad logic. Going by this, we should have given up on Rozier after year one just because James Young and R.J. Hunter sucked. Remember how lost Rozier looked during his rookie season?

Dude, we get it. You don't like Yabu, but it's pretty silly to say "the party is over" after ONE year.

[Valid]

Feel like this is a good chance to say I have no interest in bringing Larkin back. He's just not durable.

Yeah but how much durability do you really need from your third-string PG? Heck, you can even argue he is our fourth-string PG with Kyrie, Rozier and Smart (assuming we bring back Smart).

Isn't that the whole point of a 4th guard? Be available when your top 3 aren't? And he just never was. He was great as a change of pace guard when we went 4 deep in some games that everyone else was available. Had plenty of healthy DNPs. But when Marcus punched the frame, Larkin's knee was sore. When Kyrie and Marcus both went down, he got the flu or something and had to be hospitalized(?!?!??). Then he ran into Embiid and was out the rest of the playoffs when we could have used a 3rd guard.

Obviously some unfortunate timing involved, but those are 3 extended absences off the top of my head when he wasn't there when we needed him.

Yeah but how often are your top three guards going to be out? As far as the flu, it was a freak thing that can happen to anyone (and a lot of people who have the flu end up getting hospitalized). As far as him running into Embiid, the man is 7'1" and weighs around 300 pounds. When you shoulder gets clipped by him, it's going to hurt.

I also don't just want Larkin back to be a last resort. I would want him to get some actual, legitimate playing time. That's why I would prefer we bring him back over signing a guard from Europe.

[Homerclease]

Depending upon how the cards fall, he might get 2 more years.
It may take that.

Maybe we should’ve kept James Young and RJ Hunter around too. Hell, they gave Hunter the axe for Green after a single season. Yabu has had two since he was drafted now and has shown even less than those guys. The party is over with this slob. Cut our losses and get a second round pick costs half the price and may actually help one day

He's had one season. He didn't even play in 2016-17 and it was obvious that the Celtics never even planned on him playing that season.

This is just bad logic. Going by this, we should have given up on Rozier after year one just because James Young and R.J. Hunter sucked. Remember how lost Rozier looked during his rookie season?

Dude, we get it. You don't like Yabu, but it's pretty silly to say "the party is over" after ONE year.

Rozier was a legitimate playoff contributor his rookie season after spending most of it in the D league. It’s an apples and oranges comparison. The guy has made zero progress in two years. The season in China did absolutely nothing for him.

[Valid]

Maybe we should’ve kept James Young and RJ Hunter around too. Hell, they gave Hunter the axe for Green after a single season. Yabu has had two since he was drafted now and has shown even less than those guys. The party is over with this slob. Cut our losses and get a second round pick costs half the price and may actually help one day

He's had one season. He didn't even play in 2016-17 and it was obvious that the Celtics never even planned on him playing that season.

This is just bad logic. Going by this, we should have given up on Rozier after year one just because James Young and R.J. Hunter sucked. Remember how lost Rozier looked during his rookie season?

Dude, we get it. You don't like Yabu, but it's pretty silly to say "the party is over" after ONE year.

Rozier was a legitimate playoff contributor his rookie season after spending most of it in the D league. It’s an apples and oranges comparison. The guy has made zero progress in two years. The season in China did absolutely nothing for him.

Rozier looked absolutely lost in the playoffs during his rookie year and was actually pretty bad for most of his second season. It is not an apples to oranges comparison at all.