Pre Draft Discussion

[AtheJ415]

Interesting...from asking anonymous NBA Scouts questions....their last question....

10. WHO IS THE MOST OVERHYPED PLAYER IN THE DRAFT?

Three months ago it was Trae, but now it’s probably Zhaire Smith, because he’s arguably a first–round pick and he’s getting mocked 20 picks higher...I don’t know what else he does besides being athletic. I think he could end up being a rotation player...I think there’s a lot of questions with Zhaire but there’s a big variance there, talk about elite bounce and spectacular athleticism, but he’s so new to playing on the wing...

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/19/nba-draft-2018-anonymous-scouts-trae-young-luka-doncic-michael-porter?utm_campaign=thecrossover&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com

haven't really looked into him much, but isn't he a good defender?

Him and Mikal Bridges are the best perimeter defenders in this draft. I lol'd at it. It's not also just that he is athletic, he is arguably the best athlete in this draft aside from Ayton or maybe Bamba. He needs offensive work but there is absolutely nothing he cannot or does not already do defensively. He rebounds like no other, blocks a ton of shots for a wing, defends relentlessly on the perimeter, gets a ton of steals. It's just comical to me.

[Revived]

You're not the one making the decision, so save your worrying and wait to see how it works out like the rest of us. There's no need to stoke fear over trivial ****.

Relax, I was just asking

The guy takes any Ayton criticisms personally as if someone actually insulted him...that along with the forum join date is somewhat suspicious in the age of burner accounts but whatever.

[Foliohattu]

Read on Twitter

He just hit this shot to secure lead and help Real win ACB championship.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Interesting...from asking anonymous NBA Scouts questions....their last question....



https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/19/nba-draft-2018-anonymous-scouts-trae-young-luka-doncic-michael-porter?utm_campaign=thecrossover&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com

haven't really looked into him much, but isn't he a good defender?

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

Why do you think he's not a good defender yet? He had better defensive metrix as a frosh this year than Mikel Bridges had this year as a Jr. By any measure he's already a good defender and with is athleticism he can guard bigger guys.

And it's not like his shot is broken. He shot .45% from 3 but just didn't take a ton of them. He also had a .61 true shooting % which is good. He's not a volume shooter at this point but he makes what he takes.

He's not going to be a go to scorer early in his career but I think he does enough other things where he's playable in a rotation from day 1. IMO this team doesn't need another high usage guy but more a guy to do the dirty work and Smith can fill that role early in his career.

[Calvin Klein]

You're not the one making the decision, so save your worrying and wait to see how it works out like the rest of us. There's no need to stoke fear over trivial ****.

Relax, I was just asking

The guy takes any Ayton criticisms personally as if someone actually insulted him...that along with the forum join date is somewhat suspicious in the age of burner accounts but whatever.

Hopefully Ayton won't have the type of fans Vince Carter or even Hedo had when they were with the Suns-

[Villalobos]

Read on Twitter

He just hit this shot to secure lead and help Real win ACB championship.

sure seems like the type of guy a franchise desperate for winning should choose, but

[Saberestar]

Baskonia 85
Real Madrid 96

Doncic with 9 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in 22 minutes.

[Archx]

Baskonia 85
Real Madrid 96

Doncic with 9 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in 22 minutes.

8 pts 8 reb 2as 2 steals , with an amazing 3pt clutch shot. ... Looked really tired on offense but had good defensive game.

Overall insane season for him

[AtheJ415]

Zhaire Smith = short Derrick Jones. He’s not going to see the floor if we are trying to win.

Why is that? Because of his stellar defense or 45% 3 point shot? Which makes you think he isn't ready to play right now. He averaged 6.3 rebounds and 1.4 steals and blocks per 36. While his 3 point shooting was on limited shots (a little over 1 per game) he still projects at 33.6% in the NBA from day 1 and is working on quickening his release. His BPM numbers were fantastic, particularly on defense, as was his WS/40.

He can defend 3 positions at an elite level from day 1. He can't create his own offense but he won't be asked to. He would be asked to be a perimeter defender and sit in the corner 3 spot on offense or cut to the hoop (and he's a pretty fantastic mover off the ball, which is why he has like a 56% FG percentage), and rebound. PJ Tucker started here for like 4 years with that same makeup. I think he can play right away, and has the athletic upside to be a lot better.

[Revived]

haven't really looked into him much, but isn't he a good defender?

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

Why do you think he's not a good defender yet? He had better defensive metrix as a frosh this year than Mikel Bridges had this year as a Jr. By any measure he's already a good defender and with is athleticism he can guard bigger guys.

And it's not like his shot is broken. He shot .45% from 3 but just didn't take a ton of them. He also had a .61 true shooting % which is good. He's not a volume shooter at this point but he makes what he takes.

He's not going to be a go to scorer early in his career but I think he does enough other things where he's playable in a rotation from day 1. IMO this team doesn't need another high usage guy but more a guy to do the dirty work and Smith can fill that role early in his career.

High 3pt shooting % on such low volume means nothing. Look at how well Josh Jackson shot from 3 at Kansas compared to how he shot it last year in the NBA.

Players who don’t take many 3s generally can’t shoot well which is why they don’t take it.

[AtheJ415]

Interesting...from asking anonymous NBA Scouts questions....their last question....



https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/19/nba-draft-2018-anonymous-scouts-trae-young-luka-doncic-michael-porter?utm_campaign=thecrossover&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com

haven't really looked into him much, but isn't he a good defender?

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

What?! He was a MONSTER defender at Texas Tech. DBPM of 6.4 with over 1 block and steal a game. No other perimeter player in the country put that up. Mikal Bridges, for reference, considering most think of him as the best perimeter defender, had 1.1 and 1.5 blocks and steals respectively, with a DBPM of 4.4.

Gerald Green is a horrible comparison for him. That's just saying they are similar athletes. Nothing about their games are similar. Hell, Zhaire barely takes shots, and the ones he does take are super high percentage (either wide open 3s or shots in and around the FT line in). Green straight chucks and falls back on his shooting. Smith is the best rebounding non-big in this draft. I don't think you could come up with a worse player comparison for Smith than Gerald Green. I'd argue Alec Peters has as much in common since they both rebounded in college.

[jcsunsfan]

OK. So. What is your ideal draft? Include your projected trade up or whatever.

For me, if we could walk away with Ayton/Doncic or Ayton/Young, I would be absolutely thrilled.

#16, #31, take a bad contract, and additional future picks if necessary to get it done. I am good with that.

What if we walked away with Doncic/JJJ or Doncic/Bamba....how would you feel? And be honest.

Not good. If you have the best pick in the draft, you want the best player in the draft. I am convinced that is Ayton.

[darealjuice]

45% from 3 means literally nothing when you shoot a total of 40 in 37 games. He was probably the best defender on Texas Tech, but saying he's going to be an elite defender of 3 positions from day one is way overselling him.

[Saberestar]

Interesting...from asking anonymous NBA Scouts questions....their last question....



https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/19/nba-draft-2018-anonymous-scouts-trae-young-luka-doncic-michael-porter?utm_campaign=thecrossover&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com

haven't really looked into him much, but isn't he a good defender?

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

The problem is that he is not 6'7 or 6'8 like Green is. Zhaire is really small (6'2.75 without shoes)...he is 6'4 at most. He reminds me of KJ Daniels.

He is long, but that is not gonna be enough to play around the rim at the next level. He needs to improve a lot his release (too slow) and his ball handling. And a lot of more things...he is raw but has potential.

I agree. I do not want the Suns picking him at #16.

[AtheJ415]

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

Why do you think he's not a good defender yet? He had better defensive metrix as a frosh this year than Mikel Bridges had this year as a Jr. By any measure he's already a good defender and with is athleticism he can guard bigger guys.

And it's not like his shot is broken. He shot .45% from 3 but just didn't take a ton of them. He also had a .61 true shooting % which is good. He's not a volume shooter at this point but he makes what he takes.

He's not going to be a go to scorer early in his career but I think he does enough other things where he's playable in a rotation from day 1. IMO this team doesn't need another high usage guy but more a guy to do the dirty work and Smith can fill that role early in his career.

High 3pt shooting % on such low volume means nothing. Look at how well Josh Jackson shot from 3 at Kansas compared to how he shot it last year in the NBA.

Players who don’t take many 3s generally can’t shoot well which is why they don’t take it.

Channing Frye took half of the 3s Smith has in Frye's 4 years of college. And he made them half as often. So while I get he isn't an amazing 3 point shooter or anything yet, 1 a game isn't THAT small a sample size and he did hit 45% of them. He projects to be 33.6% in the NBA based on his 3 point and FT rates, which is passable though not good. Either way, there's no reason to think he would be unplayable on a good team when you combine that projected percentage with his awesome defense. And frankly, if you think he isn't a good defender yet then no wing in this draft is playable on the defensive end in the NBA.

[juanc]

Read on Twitter

He just hit this shot to secure lead and help Real win ACB championship.

sure seems like the type of guy a franchise desperate for winning should choose, but

I doesn't matter what he seems like... Ayton has the POTENTIAL and the tools to hit that shot backwards from his side of the field!

[AtheJ415]

45% from 3 means literally nothing when you shoot a total of 40 in 37 games. He was probably the best defender on Texas Tech, but saying he's going to be an elite defender of 3 positions from day one is way overselling him.

Disagree. He has the length and athleticism to do it. I find it hilarious how many fans here love PJ Tucker, who has half the talent. This guy will at worst be Tucker and at best be a lot better.

Also, this whole "just because you did it in college doesn't mean anything because the NBA is so much harder" is also pointless. If that's the case then why even care what anybody did in college in any area? I don't think there's a reason to believe he won't be an elite defender and a great rebounding perimeter player. Because you don't dominate those areas in a good conference because you were lucky.

[Revived]

Why do you think he's not a good defender yet? He had better defensive metrix as a frosh this year than Mikel Bridges had this year as a Jr. By any measure he's already a good defender and with is athleticism he can guard bigger guys.

And it's not like his shot is broken. He shot .45% from 3 but just didn't take a ton of them. He also had a .61 true shooting % which is good. He's not a volume shooter at this point but he makes what he takes.

He's not going to be a go to scorer early in his career but I think he does enough other things where he's playable in a rotation from day 1. IMO this team doesn't need another high usage guy but more a guy to do the dirty work and Smith can fill that role early in his career.

High 3pt shooting % on such low volume means nothing. Look at how well Josh Jackson shot from 3 at Kansas compared to how he shot it last year in the NBA.

Players who don’t take many 3s generally can’t shoot well which is why they don’t take it.

Channing Frye took half of the 3s Smith has in Frye's 4 years of college. And he made them half as often. So while I get he isn't an amazing 3 point shooter or anything yet, 1 a game isn't THAT small a sample size and he did hit 45% of them. He projects to be 33.6% in the NBA based on his 3 point and FT rates, which is passable though not good. Either way, there's no reason to think he would be unplayable on a good team when you combine that projected percentage with his awesome defense. And frankly, if you think he isn't a good defender yet then no wing in this draft is playable on the defensive end in the NBA.

It took Channing Frye like 7 years in the NBA before he became a good 3pt shooter at the NBA level.

If it’s gonna take Smith as long then yeah no thanks.

We need players role players who can both defend and shoot. And there are too many guys who can do that in this draft for us to pass on them for a project like Smith.

[AtheJ415]

haven't really looked into him much, but isn't he a good defender?

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

The problem is that he is not 6'7 or 6'8 like Green is. Zhaire is really small (6'2.75 without shoes)...he is 6'4 at most. He reminds me of KJ Daniels.

He is long, but that is not gonna be enough to play around the rim at the next level. He needs to improve a lot his release (too slow) and his ball handling. And a lot of more things...he is raw but has potential.

I agree. I do not want the Suns picking him at #16.

From Stepien just for everybody saying he is too small, not a good defender, and has a broken jumper:

Aggressive defender with quick feet and plus length. Can body his man because he is quick enough to stick with him wherever he tries to go.
Incredible defensive versatility. Has defended every sort of player for Texas Tech this season, from Jevon Carter to Mohamed Bamba.
Tough player who battles through screens, fights on switches, attacks contact, and closes out hard.
Promising mechanics on jumper with compact release and up-and-down form. Doesn’t rely on forward momentum.

Also, he's 6'5" in shoes with a 6'11" wingspan. That's not elite height for a 3 but fine for a 1 or 2. And the wingspan does mean he can guard 1-3.

[Revived]

haven't really looked into him much, but isn't he a good defender?

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

The problem is that he is not 6'7 or 6'8 like Green is. Zhaire is really small (6'2.75 without shoes)...he is 6'4 at most. He reminds me of KJ Daniels.

He is long, but that is not gonna be enough to play around the rim at the next level. He needs to improve a lot his release (too slow) and his ball handling. And a lot of more things...he is raw but has potential.

I agree. I do not want the Suns picking him at #16.

I think Archie Goodwin might actually be a better comp for than Gerald Green.