Pre Draft Discussion

[AtheJ415]

High 3pt shooting % on such low volume means nothing. Look at how well Josh Jackson shot from 3 at Kansas compared to how he shot it last year in the NBA.

Players who don’t take many 3s generally can’t shoot well which is why they don’t take it.

Channing Frye took half of the 3s Smith has in Frye's 4 years of college. And he made them half as often. So while I get he isn't an amazing 3 point shooter or anything yet, 1 a game isn't THAT small a sample size and he did hit 45% of them. He projects to be 33.6% in the NBA based on his 3 point and FT rates, which is passable though not good. Either way, there's no reason to think he would be unplayable on a good team when you combine that projected percentage with his awesome defense. And frankly, if you think he isn't a good defender yet then no wing in this draft is playable on the defensive end in the NBA.

It took Channing Frye like 7 years in the NBA before he became a good 3pt shooter at the NBA level.

If it’s gonna take Smith as long then yeah no thanks.

We need players role players who can both defend and shoot. And there are too many guys who can do that in this draft for us to pass on them for a project like Smith.

Yeah, sounds like he can't do either. This is his scouting report word for word. Really sounds a lot like Gerald Green to be honest. :

From Stepien just for everybody saying he is too small, not a good defender, and has a broken jumper:

Aggressive defender with quick feet and plus length. Can body his man because he is quick enough to stick with him wherever he tries to go.
Incredible defensive versatility. Has defended every sort of player for Texas Tech this season, from Jevon Carter to Mohamed Bamba.
Tough player who battles through screens, fights on switches, attacks contact, and closes out hard.
Promising mechanics on jumper with compact release and up-and-down form. Doesn’t rely on forward momentum.

[Saberestar]

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

The problem is that he is not 6'7 or 6'8 like Green is. Zhaire is really small (6'2.75 without shoes)...he is 6'4 at most. He reminds me of KJ Daniels.

He is long, but that is not gonna be enough to play around the rim at the next level. He needs to improve a lot his release (too slow) and his ball handling. And a lot of more things...he is raw but has potential.

I agree. I do not want the Suns picking him at #16.

From Stepien just for everybody saying he is too small, not a good defender, and has a broken jumper:

Aggressive defender with quick feet and plus length. Can body his man because he is quick enough to stick with him wherever he tries to go.
Incredible defensive versatility. Has defended every sort of player for Texas Tech this season, from Jevon Carter to Mohamed Bamba.
Tough player who battles through screens, fights on switches, attacks contact, and closes out hard.
Promising mechanics on jumper with compact release and up-and-down form. Doesn’t rely on forward momentum.

Also, he's 6'5" in shoes with a 6'11" wingspan. That's not elite height for a 3 but fine for a 1 or 2. And the wingspan does mean he can guard 1-3.

That is not true. He is 6'2.75 without shoes so AT MOST he can be 6'4 in shoes.
Or is he gonna play in high heels?

He plays around the rim so it is really important his size.

[Kerrsed]

Look at The Brightside thinking they are creative..........

Read on Twitter

Too bad i made mine well over a month ago!

Read on Twitter

[darealjuice]

45% from 3 means literally nothing when you shoot a total of 40 in 37 games. He was probably the best defender on Texas Tech, but saying he's going to be an elite defender of 3 positions from day one is way overselling him.

Disagree. He has the length and athleticism to do it. I find it hilarious how many fans here love PJ Tucker, who has half the talent. This guy will at worst be Tucker and at best be a lot better.

Also, this whole "just because you did it in college doesn't mean anything because the NBA is so much harder" is also pointless. If that's the case then why even care what anybody did in college in any area? I don't think there's a reason to believe he won't be an elite defender and a great rebounding perimeter player. Because you don't dominate those areas in a good conference because you were lucky.

Way to go to bat at some Strawmen lol. I couldn't care less about PJ Tucker, and I'm not drafting someone that could be PJ Tucker at #16 either, so don't lump me into that group. He was a great rebounder for Texas Tech compared to other wings because he played power forward for them, and I've never denied that he's a good defender. It's completely laughable to say a rookie will be elite defending 3 positions from day one though.

I also said that his volume makes it irrelevant, not that doing it in college is irrelevant. Was Derrick Williams a good shooter for shooting 57% on 70 attempts at Arizona? Was Josh Jackson a good shooter after going 38% at Kansas? Was Justice Winslow a good shooter at 42% on 110 attempts? The amount you shoot is a clear indicator of how comfortable you are with your shot, and making .5 3s per game as a "wing" is closer to a red flag than a strength.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

He just hit this shot to secure lead and help Real win ACB championship.

sure seems like the type of guy a franchise desperate for winning should choose, but

I doesn't matter what he seems like... Ayton has the POTENTIAL and the tools to hit that shot backwards from his side of the field!

With one hand tied behind his back.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[darealjuice]

That Doncic shot is one that people freak out over when he makes it, but use as an example for why his percentages should be higher when he misses lol

[mabundo_nagumbe]

That Doncic shot is one that people freak out over when he makes it, but use as an example for why his percentages should be higher when he misses lol

luckily for him tho, he makes all the clutch ones

[bwgood77]

Interesting...from asking anonymous NBA Scouts questions....their last question....



https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/19/nba-draft-2018-anonymous-scouts-trae-young-luka-doncic-michael-porter?utm_campaign=thecrossover&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com

haven't really looked into him much, but isn't he a good defender?

I really like Smith but there is a lot of projection with him because he's a unique player that Texas Tech played almost like a big man. He seems to have a good feel for the game though so I think that will help his unreal athleticism translate. I see him as a defensive menace and a guy who does a lot of little things on both sides of the ball and a guy who can contribute without a high usage rate. But he's a gamble for sure.

He kind of came out of nowhere this year. He was not a high profile in the least. I think he ranked like 223rd in his class.

[darealjuice]

That Doncic shot is one that people freak out over when he makes it, but use as an example for why his percentages should be higher when he misses lol

luckily for him tho, he makes all the clutch ones

Oh so he shoots 31% from 3 because he only makes the clutch ones, got it

edit: Just poking fun btw. It was a great shot, just not exactly one you want to see him shooting a lot.

[AtheJ415]

He has the tools to be a good defender but not there yet.

He’s basically Gerald Green without a jump shot.

He could become a great player in 3-4 years but he’s a super raw prospect. I don’t think the Suns should take him considering the Suns are looking to win within the next 2 years and they have more than enough projects on the team.

The problem is that he is not 6'7 or 6'8 like Green is. Zhaire is really small (6'2.75 without shoes)...he is 6'4 at most. He reminds me of KJ Daniels.

He is long, but that is not gonna be enough to play around the rim at the next level. He needs to improve a lot his release (too slow) and his ball handling. And a lot of more things...he is raw but has potential.

I agree. I do not want the Suns picking him at #16.

I think Archie Goodwin might actually be a better comp for than Gerald Green.

Please tell me how this sounds like either of them aside from just being athletic. None are similar players at all.:

"Zhaire Smith came out of nowhere to establish himself as a legitimate NBA prospect over the course of this season thanks to his outlier athleticism and surprising feel for the game. By some advanced metrics, he was one of the 20 or 30 most valuable players in the NCAA, with his tenacious defense and ability to do the little things on offense a key part of Texas Tech’s surprisingly successful season. He faces real questions about his ability to add value on offense without a reliable jump shot or particularly advanced handle, but Smith brings a high floor with his athleticism, feel, and defensive versatility. If his offensive game develops faster than expected, he could emerge as one of the steals of the draft."

[AtheJ415]

45% from 3 means literally nothing when you shoot a total of 40 in 37 games. He was probably the best defender on Texas Tech, but saying he's going to be an elite defender of 3 positions from day one is way overselling him.

Disagree. He has the length and athleticism to do it. I find it hilarious how many fans here love PJ Tucker, who has half the talent. This guy will at worst be Tucker and at best be a lot better.

Also, this whole "just because you did it in college doesn't mean anything because the NBA is so much harder" is also pointless. If that's the case then why even care what anybody did in college in any area? I don't think there's a reason to believe he won't be an elite defender and a great rebounding perimeter player. Because you don't dominate those areas in a good conference because you were lucky.

Way to go to bat at some Strawmen lol. I couldn't care less about PJ Tucker, and I'm not drafting someone that could be PJ Tucker at #16 either, so don't lump me into that group. He was a great rebounder for Texas Tech compared to other wings because he played power forward for them, and I've never denied that he's a good defender. It's completely laughable to say a rookie will be elite defending 3 positions from day one though.

I also said that his volume makes it irrelevant, not that doing it in college is irrelevant. Was Derrick Williams a good shooter for shooting 57% on 70 attempts at Arizona? Was Josh Jackson a good shooter after going 38% at Kansas? Was Justice Winslow a good shooter at 42% on 110 attempts? The amount you shoot is a clear indicator of how comfortable you are with your shot, and making .5 3s per game as a "wing" is closer to a red flag than a strength.

Every player you just listed aside from Winslow shot a boatload of 3s. Derrick Williams shot 3 3 pointers a game for god's sake. And the strawman was a direct aspect implicated by your statement that low volume makes your stats irrelevant. They aren't, particularly when your release isn't broken. His actual shot release and rotation is quite good. It's the pre-shot movement of bringing the ball down that is a problem. Thus, it isn't anything like Archie, who had to reinvent his jumper. This has been reiterated in every scouting report that his jumper is uncertain but not broken for those reasons, but hey, why let facts get in the way.

[WeekapaugGroove]

It would be great if Smith was a couple inches taller but if he was there's no way he makes it to 16.

The lack of volume is a red flag but he was a decent FT shooter and doesn't have a super clunky release so there hope he's a fine spot up shooter in the NBA.

The biggest weakness now is he's just not a guy you can give the ball in an iso situation and expect him to get you a bucket.

As far as contributing early I'm in the opinion if you can defend you have a good shot to be able to play and develop. So I think his path to playing is better than a lot of guys they could draft at 16.

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[Maze]

I don't like Smith because he can't create his own shot.I could see him being an ultra athletic 6th/7th man off the bench.

He plays with a lot of energy and hustle

[Revived]

Relax, I was just asking

The guy takes any Ayton criticisms personally as if someone actually insulted him...that along with the forum join date is somewhat suspicious in the age of burner accounts but whatever.

Hopefully Ayton won't have the type of fans Vince Carter or even Hedo had when they were with the Suns-

He already does. Because of Ayton’s Arizona connection, he has bigger fanboys than Doncic does which is surprising considering how Euro players usually have huge fanboys.

[Revived]

Smh the Ayton stans are really gonna try and rip Luka for that amazing shot?

[Revived]

That Doncic shot is one that people freak out over when he makes it, but use as an example for why his percentages should be higher when he misses lol

luckily for him tho, he makes all the clutch ones

Oh so he shoots 31% from 3 because he only makes the clutch ones, got it

edit: Just poking fun btw. It was a great shot, just not exactly one you want to see him shooting a lot.

You’re acting as if that was a designed play for him to take that shot. Or as if he took that shot with like 10 seconds remaining on the shot clock.

You realize the clock was running down and he received the ball at the last second and made something out of nothing right?

Watch on YouTube

[starbosa10]

Spoiler:

I'm not sure I agree with this. I believe he would be a consensus #1 for more teams than not. He's just too talented and has too much potential. Especially since Doncic appears to be falling so other teams can take big men.
If we had the #2 pick, I would expect us to take Doncic, even if other teams wouldn't. But teams like the Kings, who you hear may take Bagley with their pick, would most def take Ayton.

The draft board also has more international fans, particularly from Slovenia, and more analytics people. There is a poll on the GB as well that Ayton leads.

The recent poll on the GB asking who the best player in the draft is has Doncic #1 by far. Doncic has nearly double the amount of votes that Ayton has. And I think the GB is mostly American fans yet an overwhelming majority still prefer the European prospect which is somewhat surprising.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1715901

I was on the Kings official forum and someone asked what to do if the Suns actually take Doncic and a lot of them actually preferred Bagley over Ayton.

It does make you wonder, how would Ayton be perceived in the top of the lottery if he went to a school away from Arizona or if the only NBA team from Arizona hadn’t won the lottery.

Been saying that last paragraph for a while.

[MrMiyagi]

Smh the Ayton stans are really gonna try and rip Luka for that amazing shot?

To be fair, Luka fans rip on Ayton for the things he does well.

It's great shot, though.