Pre Draft Discussion

[bwgood77]

Aaron Holliday feels like a Tyler Ennis type pick all over again. Iirc Ennis was selected at #16 as well.

McD loves his mediocre PGs at #16.

He's a way better 3 pt shooter and a pretty feisty defender.

[Jwetz83]

Aaron Holliday feels like a Tyler Ennis type pick all over again. Iirc Ennis was selected at #16 as well.

McD loves his mediocre PGs at #16.

He's a way better 3 pt shooter and a pretty feisty defender.

Such a waste if they pick Holliday at 16.

[Waylay13]

This better not be true

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NO, we went through this bull **** yesterday.

Check the date on it. it is the 18th.

[darealjuice]

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Thought this was interesting, although strange considering he just sat out his Freshman year with injury. I’m curious as to how true it is.

[NTB]

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[Revived]

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Thought this was interesting, although strange considering he just sat out his Freshman year with injury. I’m curious as to how true it is.

Damn if Hinkie was still with the Sixers, I think they would’ve traded up for him then.

[NTB]

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[SuperSunsFan]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

[lilfishi22]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

[jcsunsfan]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

Bagley's mom's RealGM burner account. Sorry mom, he is going to live in Sacramento I think. It's really not bad. Only a short plane ride away, and HE can pay for the tix.

[bwgood77]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

I'm not a Bagley fan, but I do think basketball means more to him. There are a few guys from the top group that seem more passionate with it...Doncic, Bagley, JJJr...it's just Bagley doesn't seem to have a real high bbiq. I a little bit feel the same way about Ayton with the team bbiq, and if basketball isn't real important to him either it won't be good.

But if so, I guess we will all live with it. Even if that's the case though, he will still put up #s so a lot of people will be happy anyway.

But then you also hear of his work ethic at AZ, and he is already great at so many things and so big and athletic, there is so much upside.

But it is funny that KG is his favorite player. I wish you felt half the passion from him that you felt from KG.

[SuperSunsFan]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

The knock on Lonzo ball before the draft last year besides his broken shot was his defensive skills, and one year later despite the somehow mediocre season for such an hyped prospect his defense no longer is in question in fact many cite it as a strength of his. No one can question Bagley's motor, confidence and work rate. when he already has the brain, athleticism and motor there is no way he can't become a good shooter and defender as long as he wants to, and there is nothing indicating otherwise.

[BobbieL]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

I'm not a Bagley fan, but I do think basketball means more to him. There are a few guys from the top group that seem more passionate with it...Doncic, Bagley, JJJr...it's just Bagley doesn't seem to have a real high bbiq. I a little bit feel the same way about Ayton with the team bbiq, and if basketball isn't real important to him either it won't be good.

But if so, I guess we will all live with it. Even if that's the case though, he will still put up #s so a lot of people will be happy anyway.

But then you also hear of his work ethic at AZ, and he is already great at so many things and so big an athletic, there is so much upside.

But it is funny that KG is his favorite player. I wish you felt half the passion from him that you felt from KG.

The player to pick for me is the guy, and its hard to quantify as Kobe went 13th - but who is the player with the inner drive to want to get better, compete and basketball means something too

Now if Doncic is that guy - I say pick him over Ayton. Or any player. the drive to win and succeed - if that is known - would be a deal maker for me.

[lilfishi22]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

I'm not a Bagley fan, but I do think basketball means more to him. There are a few guys from the top group that seem more passionate with it...Doncic, Bagley, JJJr...it's just Bagley doesn't seem to have a real high bbiq. I a little bit feel the same way about Ayton with the team bbiq, and if basketball isn't real important to him either it won't be good.

But if so, I guess we will all live with it. Even if that's the case though, he will still put up #s so a lot of people will be happy anyway.

But then you also hear of his work ethic at AZ, and he is already great at so many things and so big an athletic, there is so much upside.

But it is funny that KG is his favorite player. I wish you felt half the passion from him that you felt from KG.

I don't doubt that Bagley probably has more passion for basketball than Ayton but it's more than that. His lack of defense, defensive fundamentals/awareness, low bbiq and the fact that he doesn't even have a reliable jumper like Ayton right now or that he doesn't really have any other high level skill aside from his feel and motor is really concerning to me. He has a ton of potential because of his motor and feel but coming into the league without high level skills and being a below average offhand finisher is just not good enough to me which is why he's never really rated that high for me as a prospect.

I see some Amare comparisons and he's one of my favourite players of all time but I've always wondered about his development if he never had a Steve Nash propping him up and essentially maximizing his PnR offense very early onwards. There isn't even a near Nash level passer in the group of teams that might draft Bagley so he's going to have to create on his own shot at the NBA level and that scares me.

Ayton attitude/passion doesn't concern me as much from an early impact and development perspective but it's something which I do consider when it comes to reaching his potential.

[SuperSunsFan]

I hope I could put my trust on McD to sort it out and pick the best player for us but his track record doesn't exactly give you ease of mind given how many duds are on his resume (Len, Bender, Chriss, Ennis)

[bwgood77]

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

I'm not a Bagley fan, but I do think basketball means more to him. There are a few guys from the top group that seem more passionate with it...Doncic, Bagley, JJJr...it's just Bagley doesn't seem to have a real high bbiq. I a little bit feel the same way about Ayton with the team bbiq, and if basketball isn't real important to him either it won't be good.

But if so, I guess we will all live with it. Even if that's the case though, he will still put up #s so a lot of people will be happy anyway.

But then you also hear of his work ethic at AZ, and he is already great at so many things and so big an athletic, there is so much upside.

But it is funny that KG is his favorite player. I wish you felt half the passion from him that you felt from KG.

I don't doubt that Bagley probably has more passion for basketball than Ayton but it's more than that. His lack of defense, defensive fundamentals/awareness, low bbiq and the fact that he doesn't even have a reliable jumper like Ayton right now or that he doesn't really have any other high level skill aside from his feel and motor is really concerning to me. He has a ton of potential because of his motor and feel but coming into the league without high level skills and being a below average offhand finisher is just not good enough to me which is why he's never really rated that high for me as a prospect.

I see some Amare comparisons and he's one of my favourite players of all time but I've always wondered about his development if he never had a Steve Nash propping him up and essentially maximizing his PnR offense very early onwards. There isn't even a near Nash level passer in the group of teams that might draft Bagley so he's going to have to create on his own shot at the NBA level and that scares me.

Ayton attitude/passion doesn't concern me as much from an early impact and development perspective but it's something which I do consider when it comes to reaching his potential.

I'd take Ayton over Bagley 100x out of 100. I wasn't arguing for Bagley in any way. Just saying I can feel the passion. He's not high on my board at all.

[AtheJ415]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

The knock on Lonzo ball before the draft last year besides his broken shot was his defensive skills, and one year later despite the somehow mediocre season for such an hyped prospect his defense no longer is in question in fact many cite it as a strength of his. No one can question Bagley's motor, confidence and work rate. when he already has the brain, athleticism and motor there is no way he can't become a good shooter and defender as long as he wants to, and there is nothing indicating otherwise.

You could say the exact same things about Brandon Knight coming out as well though. Not everyone who is athletic who cares a lot conquers their weaknesses or even improves. I think Bagley could be really good but I do think he is the worst defender of that top group right now. He was as lost as Ayton at times but Ayton was playing out of position and has better physical skills to impact defensively longterm at the 5. For Bagley a lot of his future is going to be determined based on if he can stick at the 4 imo, which is going to come down to putting it together offensively first. Then improving his defense.

[AtheJ415]

I hope I could put my trust on McD to sort it out and pick the best player for us but his track record doesn't exactly give you ease of mind given how many duds are on his resume (Len, Bender, Chriss, Ennis)

Devin Booker, Josh Jackson, Warren, etc.

I would like to know what GMs don't have a few bad picks over 5 years and mostly with late picks or high picks in bad drafts. Also, whether Bender or Chriss end up duds will be known in a few years. Len was the #1 player in that draft according to a number of reputable people and the guys this board has wanted have not really done any better.

The reality is Denver and Utah are the only teams with comparable draft position that have arguably picked better, and both have their screwups as well. And you could argue they have done the best relative to position in the entire NBA. Boston, Philly, and LA have had the luxury of getting better picks in better drafts. And even if I included those that is about 5 teams.

[lilfishi22]

I am officially team Bagley. I don't like Ayton's attitude. He is not going to play hard if basketball is not his passion but just a way for his family to get rich. He wouldn't be complaining about missing his childhood or like being at work if he truly enjoyed playing basketball, saying those things tips me off that his mind won't be in the game and the long seasons are such a grind no way a player can succeed without the love for the game. it is big big red flag to be honest.

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

The knock on Lonzo ball before the draft last year besides his broken shot was his defensive skills, and one year later despite the somehow mediocre season for such an hyped prospect his defense no longer is in question in fact many cite it as a strength of his. No one can question Bagley's motor, confidence and work rate. when he already has the brain, athleticism and motor there is no way he can't become a good shooter and defender as long as he wants to, and there is nothing indicating otherwise.

He doesn't have the brain, that's the issue. Every single scout/evaluator/blogger/blogger's uncle/blogger's uncle's mechanic has discussed in detail about his extremely poor defensive awareness, fundamentals and production. Unlike Ayton, he doesn't even defend the perimeter well. You just can't get by without some level of defense.

Lonzo's biggest knock coming into the league was his ability to initiate without high level ball handling and that's come true. His defense was never as big of an issue as that. His defensive issue was rather he wasn't particularly quick or strong enough on defense when he's put on an island (but that's true for a lot of wing defenders) but his on court awareness was what saved him on that end. While he's still not a great man defender, he's an excellent team defender because he has very high bbiq. He sees plays develop and uses his length for excellent help D.

I hope I could put my trust on McD to sort it out and pick the best player for us but his track record doesn't exactly give you ease of mind given how many duds are on his resume (Len, Bender, Chriss, Ennis)

I can agree to that.

[bwgood77]

I get if you think he doesn't have the most competitive attitude (even that's debatable) but Bagley at #1? The guy who plays literally zero defense, outside of his motor and athletic attributes hasn't really got a high level skill and doesn't even really have a right hand?

The knock on Lonzo ball before the draft last year besides his broken shot was his defensive skills, and one year later despite the somehow mediocre season for such an hyped prospect his defense no longer is in question in fact many cite it as a strength of his. No one can question Bagley's motor, confidence and work rate. when he already has the brain, athleticism and motor there is no way he can't become a good shooter and defender as long as he wants to, and there is nothing indicating otherwise.

You could say the exact same things about Brandon Knight coming out as well though. Not everyone who is athletic who cares a lot conquers their weaknesses or even improves. I think Bagley could be really good but I do think he is the worst defender of that top group right now. He was as lost as Ayton at times but Ayton was playing out of position and has better physical skills to impact defensively longterm at the 5. For Bagley a lot of his future is going to be determined based on if he can stick at the 4 imo, which is going to come down to putting it together offensively first. Then improving his defense.

He looked a lot more lost than Ayton to me. He almost had too much of a motor on defensive and not enough thinking. He was just running around in circles until they went into zone and he basically didn't move much.