If Hawks select Luka, what types of players should play with him?

[juanc]

yall help me out with Luka.. Im not sold on him. not over JJJ and Bagley

He is not athletic or quick enough to guard most NBA pgs. He would have to probably play mostly as a wing type player. But most of his value comes with his instinct/court vision, which he will not use as much in the NBA since he wont be running the offense as much since he is not quick or athletic enough to play as a pure pg in the league.

He is a versatile scorer, but has issues when he is guarded by athletic teams..which all of the NBA will be. He is not a great 3 point shooter either.

Im sorry, but this guy has bust written all over him...please explain to me why I am wrong?

Yes the ACB is a league of great professionals and they play hard smart basketball. But the level of athleticsm and pace is sutied to Doncic's the NBA is not.

First let's talk about his athleticism. The following was posted a year ago:

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8'9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBA guards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka's ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we've assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He's become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they've improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He's good now, he's still getting better, and he's well within his physical development window!

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10155225675353864/

And this is from yesterday

As the #NBAdraft approaches, the biggest question surrounding Luka Doncic is if he is athletic enough to be a star in the league… In addition to possessing great positional size and very competitive lateral acceleration, Luka demonstrates elite, Harden-like, physical qualities associated with braking/change of direction compared to our #NBA database. Our Director of Biomechanics provides a breakdown.

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10156356863703864/

About his shooting. Luka had to create 90% of his shots for himself. He didn't get many spot up opportunities and that's why his % are a bit lower(even if the 2pt% are high for a guard).

Yes he struglled vs Pao in the playoff series, but he was the only one capable to handle the ball and Pao was putting presure to Luka for the whole game(There were 4 defenders making turns on him and full court press on him). Imagine if Dennis would have to handle the ball in a playoff series and all other PG's or SG's that are capable to handle the ball were injured. How would that look like?

[atlantabbq99]

Here is a comparison that nobody has thrown out yet, Luka Doncic = Larry Bird...

Court vision, athleticism, passing, defense, shooting, clutch. Bird is a better post up player, while Doncic looks like a more natural face the basket player.

[Archx]

Yes but isn't it funny that a 19yo who is considered to be one of the smartest players coming into the league only lacks some gym training? And that is suppose to be a red flag? Considering the fact that with NBA conditioning and NBA trainers that is one of the easiest flaws to fix on a player.
After each rookie year players usually go into the gym and work hard on conditioning. I even predicted he could struggle in his rookie year because of fatigue. And i strongly believe he needs 2-3 years of gym training, so lack of athleticism is something that may be true but he doesn't have to be Lebron James athletic in order to be effective down the road.

I think Luka will be just fine, he only needs a proper system to play in, like Rubio for example. Until he landed with Jazz he was average and now he is one of the most important players there.

[reazun]

yall help me out with Luka.. Im not sold on him. not over JJJ and Bagley

He is not athletic or quick enough to guard most NBA pgs. He would have to probably play mostly as a wing type player. But most of his value comes with his instinct/court vision, which he will not use as much in the NBA since he wont be running the offense as much since he is not quick or athletic enough to play as a pure pg in the league.

He is a versatile scorer, but has issues when he is guarded by athletic teams..which all of the NBA will be. He is not a great 3 point shooter either.

Im sorry, but this guy has bust written all over him...please explain to me why I am wrong?

Yes the ACB is a league of great professionals and they play hard smart basketball. But the level of athleticsm and pace is sutied to Doncic's the NBA is not.

First let's talk about his athleticism. The following was posted a year ago:

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8'9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBA guards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka's ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we've assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He's become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they've improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He's good now, he's still getting better, and he's well within his physical development window!

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10155225675353864/

And this is from yesterday

As the #NBAdraft approaches, the biggest question surrounding Luka Doncic is if he is athletic enough to be a star in the league… In addition to possessing great positional size and very competitive lateral acceleration, Luka demonstrates elite, Harden-like, physical qualities associated with braking/change of direction compared to our #NBA database. Our Director of Biomechanics provides a breakdown.

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10156356863703864/

About his shooting. Luka had to create 90% of his shots for himself. He didn't get many spot up opportunities and that's why his % are a bit lower(even if the 2pt% are high for a guard).

Yes he struglled vs Pao in the playoff series, but he was the only one capable to handle the ball and Pao was putting presure to Luka for the whole game(There were 4 defenders making turns on him and full court press on him). Imagine if Dennis would have to handle the ball in a playoff series and all other PG's or SG's that are capable to handle the ball were injured. How would that look like?

thats helpful information sir..thanks for posting

[kg01]

Yes but isn't it funny that a 19yo who is considered to be one of the smartest players coming into the league only lacks some gym training? And that is suppose to be a red flag? Considering the fact that with NBA conditioning and NBA trainers that is one of the easiest flaws to fix on a player.
After each rookie year players usually go into the gym and work hard on conditioning. I even predicted he could struggle in his rookie year because of fatigue. And i strongly believe he needs 2-3 years of gym training, so lack of athleticism is something that may be true but he doesn't have to be Lebron James athletic in order to be effective down the road.

I think Luka will be just fine, he only needs a proper system to play in, like Rubio for example. Until he landed with Jazz he was average and now he is one of the most important players there.

Great point. I mentioned a few days ago that he'll likely be worn out by the time the next season starts. It shouldn't come as a surprise to see an 'overuse' injury of some sort or just general fatigue. He's played a LOT of games in the last 6-8 months. His 2nd year bump should be pretty strong.

[reazun]

Yes but isn't it funny that a 19yo who is considered to be one of the smartest players coming into the league only lacks some gym training? And that is suppose to be a red flag? Considering the fact that with NBA conditioning and NBA trainers that is one of the easiest flaws to fix on a player.
After each rookie year players usually go into the gym and work hard on conditioning. I even predicted he could struggle in his rookie year because of fatigue. And i strongly believe he needs 2-3 years of gym training, so lack of athleticism is something that may be true but he doesn't have to be Lebron James athletic in order to be effective down the road.

I think Luka will be just fine, he only needs a proper system to play in, like Rubio for example. Until he landed with Jazz he was average and now he is one of the most important players there.

I believe the Liga ACB plays rougly 80 games, so I dont think he will struggle with fatigue like other players out the NCAA. However, I believe your right in those other aspects..to a point imo. Up to a point elite level athleticsm is something you are born with. You cant train all of it in.
but its not like Luka is not athletic. He is a professional athlete. He is very athletic. But does he have what it takes to be NBA point guard level athletic? well yes, but a great NBA pg. i dont know

I do value talent/ skills over athleticsm and Luka has that. I mean how many people can jump out the building but will never even come close to play pro ball? tons. Talent, his court vision, etc. is more important than just being athletic. but I still feel safer with JJJ, he has talent, insticts, and less question marks when it comes to his lateral quickness, first step, ability to defend. b/c even though ACB plays smarter and has more skilled players that the NCAA...the NCAA is more explosive and athletic.The posts that yall put up has helped me alot with my qualms in taking him at 3. I may still be slightly more comfortable with JJJ still though.

btw, when I said bust written all over him, it was an exaggeration. I wasnt questioning if Luka will be effective or even good in the NBA. I have no doubt about that. I said that after reading Brad Rowland's mock draft where he stated he felt Luka is the best player in the draft...If you expect him the number 1, then I think he could be a bust considering those expectations. Prior to reading the p3 trainers comments, I was expecting Luka to maybe be around the top 5 or 6th best player in the draft...I am more comfortable thinking he may be a number 3...not sold on him being the best yet though. I could be wrong. thanks for the info guys

[azuresou1]

I think Doncic would pair very well with a slashing PG who can create like Dennis. Unfortunately, Dennis is an **** so we'd be looking to move him.

Doncic would also pair well with JJJ, who both spaces and provides rim protection.

[Jamaaliver]

I think Doncic would pair very well with a slashing PG who can create like Dennis. Unfortunately, Dennis is an **** so we'd be looking to move him.

Doncic would also pair well with JJJ, who both spaces and provides rim protection.

This is part of the reason I'm hoping for Elie Okobo to go with Doncic.

Offensively, they could be a new-age Manu and T Parker.

Okobo, the scoring pG with the silky smooth jumper; Luka, the oversized combo guard with eyes in the back of his head.

[kg01]

I believe the Liga ACB plays rougly 80 games, so ...

Yeah but he got done literally like yesterday. Plus all the international games he played in that tournament. That approx 80 games is more like 100+ games compared to NCAA guys having played like 30.

[Spud2nique]

Here is a comparison that nobody has thrown out yet, Luka Doncic = Larry Bird...

Court vision, athleticism, passing, defense, shooting, clutch. Bird is a better post up player, while Doncic looks like a more natural face the basket player.

Ur late on that. Everyone after me has been saying that. YOU LATE SUN!

[Spud2nique]

Bruce Brown and/or Khyri would be perfect fits next to Luka.

NOTE: Because of Khyri's limited playmaking ability...Bruce Brown might be closer to Chauncey's skill set.

Khyri Thomas is just a stronger Avery Bradley.

Perimeter players to consider as a sidekick to Luka:

Spoiler:

Khyri Thomas (Creighton, SG, Junior)

Thomas needs to land on a team with which he can play to his strengths as a spot-up shooter, transition weapon and perimeter defender. He's undersized (6'4", 199 lbs) for an off-guard who doesn't create and struggles in pick-and-roll situations.


Jacob Evans (Cincinnati, SG/SF, Junior)

His stats weren't overwhelming, but the NBA scouting microscope sees a fit with Evans' shooting, secondary playmaking and defensive versatility. He doesn't specialize in any area, though. Instead, he'll give teams a little of everything at both ends while playing tough, two-way ball.

Elie Okobo (France, PG, 1997)

Okobo doesn't wow with explosiveness. Instead, he buries defenses as a shot-maker from the second and third levels, and he uses ball screens to create scoring chances, both for himself and teammates.

Josh Okogie (Georgia Tech, SG, Sophomore)

An athletic scorer and improving shooter (.453 from the field last season), Okogie changed minds at the combine while punishing defenses during scrimmages. He also has a chance to be a plus defender thanks to his quickness and unique length (7'0" wingspan).

Aaron Holiday (UCLA, PG, Junior)

Though he turns 22 years old in September, Holiday could sneak into the teens. He's generated interest with his consistent three-point shooting (.422 career), improved playmaking and defensive toughness.

Donte DiVincenzo (Villanova, SG, Sophomore)

Give him a role that plays to his strengths, and DiVincenzo can contribute right away as a secondary playmaker, shot-maker and pesky defender. He's a high-floor, low-ceiling prospect who'll impact games with his athleticism, versatility and energy.

I love them all except for Okobo and Okogie...they sound like busts specially the latter..out before kg..

Aye spud, can you get in this hole I just dug in the ground? Just tell me what's at the bottom of it. Don't mind me, I'm just shoveling dirt in your general direction.

u get a like for that gif..beauty! Ps I’m not Pesci and we ain’t in the desert stop dumping dirt on me!

[Spud2nique]

yall help me out with Luka.. Im not sold on him. not over JJJ and Bagley

He is not athletic or quick enough to guard most NBA pgs.

He is a versatile scorer, but has issues when he is guarded by athletic teams..which all of the NBA will be. He is not a great 3 point shooter either.

Im sorry, but this guy has bust written all over him...please explain to me why I am wrong?

First of all, I think it's important to address the elephant in the room. Not only is there a bias against Euro players -- there's long been a bias in this country against white players and their perceived inability to keep up with black NBA players.

Occasionally, we'll see guys with high BBall IQs and amazing shooting skills make a niche in the league. (Redick, Korver, Dirk) But the larger concern is that the slow white guy can't play against bigger, stronger black players. Am I far off?



Specific to Doncic, some of those concerns are valid. If this was one-on-one or 2-on-2, he'd be demolished.

But on a court with other high level teammates with high IQ, he's consistently stood out for his ability in the full court to find shooters on the wing. His ability in the half court to use screens (and that superior size) to create space to shoot and pass.


His reasonable comps based on size, athleticism and background are Gordon Hayward and Manu Ginobili. Both are All Stars (Manu might even be a HOFer)

At age 19, Doncic is more proven, more experienced, more highly regarded than either. He's been successful at every level for years now and recognized as the best player also.

He's played against former NBA players and done well. He's played against former NBA players and struggled. He'll need teammates to help. He ain't Lebron. But he's not Jan Vesely either.


Size, passing, experience, vision, ball handling, rebounding out of the SG/SF spot are really enticing. We'll need to embrace a style of play that emphasizes his strength, but the kid is a winner.

NOTE: One of the other board members dug up some video of Luka in a exhibition game against OKC two years ago. It helped me get past some of the athleticism concerns seeing him hold his own.

Spoiler:

17 year old Luca playing vs OKC...

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Oh...sorry after reading the first sentence I thought the rest would be about kg! (Zing)

GAGAGAGA GOOOOOOOTTTT HEEEEEM (serious last time)..

[D21]

Yes but isn't it funny that a 19yo who is considered to be one of the smartest players coming into the league only lacks some gym training? And that is suppose to be a red flag? Considering the fact that with NBA conditioning and NBA trainers that is one of the easiest flaws to fix on a player.
After each rookie year players usually go into the gym and work hard on conditioning. I even predicted he could struggle in his rookie year because of fatigue. And i strongly believe he needs 2-3 years of gym training, so lack of athleticism is something that may be true but he doesn't have to be Lebron James athletic in order to be effective down the road.

I think Luka will be just fine, he only needs a proper system to play in, like Rubio for example. Until he landed with Jazz he was average and now he is one of the most important players there.

Good point there

Another thing I see coming is that he's used to play with veteran, players not on NBA level but with better experience than most of his future teammates if he's picked by ATL, and it will have an impact. It will need more time, but at least, they would develop their own chemistry.

[Jamaaliver]

Another thing I see coming is that he's used to play with veteran, players not on NBA level but with better experience than most of his future teammates if he's picked by ATL, and it will have an impact. It will need more time, but at least, they would develop their own chemistry.

Great.

Point.



Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

[reazun]

Another thing I see coming is that he's used to play with veteran, players not on NBA level but with better experience than most of his future teammates if he's picked by ATL, and it will have an impact. It will need more time, but at least, they would develop their own chemistry.

This is true and a good point. the more I think about it, the more Im sold on Doncic. I am now back on the Doncic train... but then I wake up and see that Atlanta is in talks with 5 teams to trade down. Not that I didnt know they were already in talks to trading down, but the fact that they are still very active means they are not completely sold on Doncic right now..oh well, we will see what happens.

Also, something interesting, but not very important. This was the All Liga ACB first team this year.

Gary Neal, Luka Doncic, Sylven Landesburg, Tornike Shengelia, Henk Norel...yeah, I have no idea who the last 3 are..but good to see our former Hawks, Gary Neal, doing well overseas. (even though he wasnt a Hawks very long) Neal was also 3rd in MVP voting this year

[atlantabbq99]

The more film i watch on Doncic, the more i feel like he can be a 12 assist per game player. I'm starting to think he will be a less flashy Magic Johnson, but similar impact .