Pre Draft Discussion

[BobbieL]

My only hope for today: Kings surprise everyone and choose MPJ at #2, we then go through with the rumored deal with New York and end up with the #9 pick. McD doesn't stop there and ends up trading #9/Warren for #4/Chandler. Atlanta doesn't make a deal for #3, drafts JJJ, and then we are able to draft Luka at #4.

if three draft possibilities at 16 (and this means not trading for a veteran ) are

1) Holiday
2) trading up with Knicks using future assets for Young
3) trading up with GRizz, taking Parsons, getting Doncic and using a lot of assets

I would rather have 2 and 3 than 1. One seems like just taking a player based on need.

[Revived]

Can we please trade up and get Doncic if the Kings pass on him?

For me, coming away with both Ayton and Doncic from this draft will be like an equivalent of winning the championship.

[matt131]

My only hope for today: Kings surprise everyone and choose MPJ at #2, we then go through with the rumored deal with New York and end up with the #9 pick. McD doesn't stop there and ends up trading #9/Warren for #4/Chandler. Atlanta doesn't make a deal for #3, drafts JJJ, and then we are able to draft Luka at #4.

if three draft possibilities at 16 (and this means not trading for a veteran ) are

1) Holiday
2) trading up with Knicks using future assets for Young
3) trading up with GRizz, taking Parsons, getting Doncic and using a lot of assets

I would rather have 2 and 3 than 1. One seems like just taking a player based on need.

I know that we won the draft lottery and I know that is awesome, but if all we end up with is Ayton and Holiday, I'll be super unimpressed. McD has made it seem like we'll be making big moves and is making it seem like we are done tanking and want to start winning. But for all the "assets" and "cap space" that we have, it sure sounds like we won't be able to get anything done and it is rather frustrating.

[matt131]

Can we please trade up and get Doncic if the Kings pass on him?

For me, coming away with both Ayton and Doncic from this draft will be like an equivalent of winning the championship.

It's been highly discussed here and I agree. I am of the mindset that you almost give up everything we have (sans Book and JJ) for Doncic especially if we're drafting Ayton #1. I think not only is Doncic the best player in the draft, but he also makes Ayton even more dangerous with his amazing passing ability/court vision.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

My only hope for today: Kings surprise everyone and choose MPJ at #2, we then go through with the rumored deal with New York and end up with the #9 pick. McD doesn't stop there and ends up trading #9/Warren for #4/Chandler. Atlanta doesn't make a deal for #3, drafts JJJ, and then we are able to draft Luka at #4.

if three draft possibilities at 16 (and this means not trading for a veteran ) are

1) Holiday
2) trading up with Knicks using future assets for Young
3) trading up with GRizz, taking Parsons, getting Doncic and using a lot of assets

I would rather have 2 and 3 than 1. One seems like just taking a player based on need.

If Holiday were 6'2", would we all be hating on this selection so much? Isn't the problem with Trae Young his defense and physical profile? How much better a shooter is Trae than Holiday? Is Trae's passing so valuable that we can overlook the defensive deficiency?

I get the Holiday pick. Teams are going to go after little guys in the playoffs, and the only PG in the draft who won't struggle on those switches will be SGA - but that's a few years down the line, after he adds 15 or so pounds.

Do we have Sexton ahead of Holiday on our board? Not sure. None of us prefer Holiday at 16, but I'll withhold judgment, since it looks like he'll be the selection if we don't move up for Trae or Shai - the latter of these seems even less likely, given his ascension up the draft boards.

If we make the pick at #16, we'll make the pick at the #31. If we take Holiday, I hope Bades-Diop is the guy at #31. If we get Zhaire at #16, I hope we take Carter or Khyri at #31.

Young/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Ayton would be a dream on offense and a nightmare on defense. I don't know if any coach would be able to make that work.

[BobbieL]

Can we please trade up and get Doncic if the Kings pass on him?

For me, coming away with both Ayton and Doncic from this draft will be like an equivalent of winning the championship.

It's been highly discussed here and I agree. I am of the mindset that you almost give up everything we have (sans Book and JJ) for Doncic especially if we're drafting Ayton #1. I think not only is Doncic the best player in the draft, but he also makes Ayton even more dangerous with his amazing passing ability/court vision.

to your earlier post - Ayton and HOliday would be a bit underwhelming with the assets the Suns have to make trades (meaning future picks, expiring contracts, non guaranteed contracts, even players, though Bender, Chriss might not have much value).

I know WHY Deandre Ayton is the pick and there is a lot to like about it. I just think I want Doncic more at the end of the day. I think he is just a better basketball player and will always be a better basketball player. I don't think Ayton will be a bust. I think he will be a good solid NBA player - heck might be better but here is the thing

If Ayton is the pick - has a good solid career but Doncic or even Bagley are better - people would get that

If Doncic is the pick and Ayton explodes into the best player, people will link the Suns to the Blazers. That to my is why Ayton is the pick

[bwgood77]

#16 for DLO just get it over with. Luka and Trae arent dropping.

Is there any indication Brooklyn wants to move DLO or is this DLO talk just our normal every so often mention of how we should trade little for him, despite the fact Brooklyn took on like $54 million or something to get him and he was injured much of his first year with them.

I don't see them just moving them. I've heard talk they might move Dinwiddie, who I didn't think they'd move, but that makes more sense considering they didn't invest a lot into him and have DLO and Lin.

For me, based on what I've read from the Nets board, and seeing that the Nets are not really looking at giving him an extension this off-season makes me believe they will listen to offers for him. He didn't really play all that well, didn't have 100% effort every game and appears to not want the responsibility of being the leader of a team. The Nets took a gamble on him, and might not want to risk anymore than they already have. The fact that he was injured most of the season is even more reason to not have him long-term. For a team to trade for him, giving up a mid-first round pick isn't that little. Just because they took on $54 million doesn't mean they can't cut their losses and try and salvage any trade value he has left. Just my opinion. I'd risk giving up the 16th pick. If the Nets rather keep him, than so be it.

I wonder how much he'd want in FA or what kind of other offers he would get? What would you pay him? He'll probably want close to $20 million a year or something.

[bwgood77]

I agree that one of Bender or Chriss have to go, but if we trade Bender, then JJ is our only defensive player in the starting lineup

How can you say that when the stats i just posted prove that Chriss was/is a much better defender???

114 to 109 Defensive rating, with a 1.3 defensive box plus/minus along with double the defensive win shares that Bender had.

Chriss is/was better at blocks and steals...significantly better, which is what drives those box score stats. Bender is the smarter better team defender. But also, one of our most signficant needs is 3 pt shooting, and Bender was far better there. Zach Lowe even wrote an article about how when both Booker and Bender were not on the floor, our offensive was by far the worst in the league.

Chriss is a gambler on defense, and gets some steals and blocks but also ends up jumping into a lot of people on fakes and fouling them, often behind the 3 pt line. I hope we keep both guys for now though.

[bwgood77]

You can bet your bottom dollar if the Lakers are trying to move 25 for a second rounder for salary cap purposes, the first team they called was the Suns.

I assume something like 25 for 31 and 59 would be offered. Both teams could live with that.

That does make perfect sense, as the Lakers would not have any salary cap holds, but get two picks, and we would get a signficant move up. They don't get a lot to move back six spots, but a lot of undrafted guys end up getting heavily recruited to come to camp so any pick you have the rights to is worth something.

[49erhokie]

My only hope for today: Kings surprise everyone and choose MPJ at #2, we then go through with the rumored deal with New York and end up with the #9 pick. McD doesn't stop there and ends up trading #9/Warren for #4/Chandler. Atlanta doesn't make a deal for #3, drafts JJJ, and then we are able to draft Luka at #4.

I'm a bit out the loop but whats the rumored deal with New York?

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/comments/8slr3f/tomorrow_news/

If MPJ is selected before # 9 I know for a fact that the Suns Knicks have a hand shake deal. Suns will trade #16 + Bender + 2019 Milwaukee pick (If not conveyed Knicks will have rights to swap with 2019 Suns #1 protected) for #9. Confident enough to back it up with gold.

1 (Ayton) and 2021 Miami pick are off limits holding too much value.


It could be total bull, but worth reading the thread. Apparently he provided the same and deleted it after the person said they believe him now.

If NY rumor is true i just hope it doesnt turn out to be like the hand shake deal we reportedly had with Golden State when they drafted curry lol.

[bwgood77]

Can we please trade up and get Doncic if the Kings pass on him?

For me, coming away with both Ayton and Doncic from this draft will be like an equivalent of winning the championship.

Well there are like 3-5 teams with higher pick swaps and likely better packages we can give to move up so likely not. The Hawks will likely either take him or move down a few spots and add an asset.

[3toheadmelo]

ayton is gonna be amazing for you guys. had him #1 since last summer. congrats!

[AtheJ415]

My only hope for today: Kings surprise everyone and choose MPJ at #2, we then go through with the rumored deal with New York and end up with the #9 pick. McD doesn't stop there and ends up trading #9/Warren for #4/Chandler. Atlanta doesn't make a deal for #3, drafts JJJ, and then we are able to draft Luka at #4.

if three draft possibilities at 16 (and this means not trading for a veteran ) are

1) Holiday
2) trading up with Knicks using future assets for Young
3) trading up with GRizz, taking Parsons, getting Doncic and using a lot of assets

I would rather have 2 and 3 than 1. One seems like just taking a player based on need.

If Holiday were 6'2", would we all be hating on this selection so much? Isn't the problem with Trae Young his defense and physical profile? How much better a shooter is Trae than Holiday? Is Trae's passing so valuable that we can overlook the defensive deficiency?

I get the Holiday pick. Teams are going to go after little guys in the playoffs, and the only PG in the draft who won't struggle on those switches will be SGA - but that's a few years down the line, after he adds 15 or so pounds.

Do we have Sexton ahead of Holiday on our board? Not sure. None of us prefer Holiday at 16, but I'll withhold judgment, since it looks like he'll be the selection if we don't move up for Trae or Shai - the latter of these seems even less likely, given his ascension up the draft boards.

If we make the pick at #16, we'll make the pick at the #31. If we take Holiday, I hope Bades-Diop is the guy at #31. If we get Zhaire at #16, I hope we take Carter or Khyri at #31.

Young/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Ayton would be a dream on offense and a nightmare on defense. I don't know if any coach would be able to make that work.

I have no issue with Holiday's height. Wingspan is more important than height and he has a big wingspan. Trae is the best shooter in this draft and one of the best in the history of college basketball, and imo he is the best passer in this draft including Doncic. With Trae you have to look at his numbers in the proper context. He had to take a huge amount of shots off the dribble, was double or triple teamed constantly, and was taking more difficult shots than anybody else in the country as a result. He may not be the pick and roll maestro that Doncic is, but I think his vision and passing is as good as anybody in this draft.

My issue with Holiday is his decisionmaking or lack of vision, but probably a combo of both. He forces shots and takes wild shots constantly with a ton of time on the clock. He has open shooters and doesn't give them the ball either because he doesn't see them or has Brandon Knight syndrome. He takes a ton of shots after dribbling 5-6 times. I just don't like his style of play.

I admit Holiday has upside. He is athletic and has touch and has the physical profile to do well, but I think there are some good PGs in this draft (Doncic, Young, SGA, Sexton, Shamet, Okobo, Milton though more Combo than PG for him) all of whom I personally prefer, and all of whom have the physical profile and upside imo. I will root for Holiday if we get him but I hope we pass. I think Doncic and Young are sure things. SGA is a unique fit for our backcourt. Sexton I have less faith in but is super intense and athletic. Shamet I think can score from all 3 levels efficiently and is super heady. Okobo can shoot and has flashed great setup ability. Milton was an all american caliber guy at SG and did well at PG. I think all of those could have value for us.

[BobbieL]

I agree that one of Bender or Chriss have to go, but if we trade Bender, then JJ is our only defensive player in the starting lineup

How can you say that when the stats i just posted prove that Chriss was/is a much better defender???

114 to 109 Defensive rating, with a 1.3 defensive box plus/minus along with double the defensive win shares that Bender had.

Chriss is/was better at blocks and steals...significantly better, which is what drives those box score stats. Bender is the smarter better team defender. But also, one of our most signficant needs is 3 pt shooting, and Bender was far better there. Zach Lowe even wrote and article about how when both Booker and Bender were not on the floor, our offensive was by far the worst in the league.

Chriss is a gambler on defense, and gets some steals and blocks but also ends up jumping into a lot of people on fakes and fouling them, often behind the 3 pt line. I hope we keep both guys for now though.

Based on the trade value of Chriss or Bender - probably best to not trade them and hope that with both better head coaching and maybe a coach like Big Nasty - they improve to the point that one or both is top 8/9 rotational players or even have trade value. Only going to be their third year and really with Watson has head coach and what seems that there was a real teaching, training camp etc, - might in some ways be starting like year 2.5 - maybe not totally year 2 but also not where they should be going into year 3.

[bwgood77]

My only hope for today: Kings surprise everyone and choose MPJ at #2, we then go through with the rumored deal with New York and end up with the #9 pick. McD doesn't stop there and ends up trading #9/Warren for #4/Chandler. Atlanta doesn't make a deal for #3, drafts JJJ, and then we are able to draft Luka at #4.

if three draft possibilities at 16 (and this means not trading for a veteran ) are

1) Holiday
2) trading up with Knicks using future assets for Young
3) trading up with GRizz, taking Parsons, getting Doncic and using a lot of assets

I would rather have 2 and 3 than 1. One seems like just taking a player based on need.

If Holiday were 6'2", would we all be hating on this selection so much? Isn't the problem with Trae Young his defense and physical profile? How much better a shooter is Trae than Holiday? Is Trae's passing so valuable that we can overlook the defensive deficiency?

I get the Holiday pick. Teams are going to go after little guys in the playoffs, and the only PG in the draft who won't struggle on those switches will be SGA - but that's a few years down the line, after he adds 15 or so pounds.

Do we have Sexton ahead of Holiday on our board? Not sure. None of us prefer Holiday at 16, but I'll withhold judgment, since it looks like he'll be the selection if we don't move up for Trae or Shai - the latter of these seems even less likely, given his ascension up the draft boards.

If we make the pick at #16, we'll make the pick at the #31. If we take Holiday, I hope Bades-Diop is the guy at #31. If we get Zhaire at #16, I hope we take Carter or Khyri at #31.

Young/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Ayton would be a dream on offense and a nightmare on defense. I don't know if any coach would be able to make that work.

He doesn't sound like an exciting pick, but I'm ultimately ok with it given that he has been an elite long range shooter for 3 years and at least often gives good effort on defense.

I haven't watched him enough to complain about him too much....but the numbers look good and the buzz is pretty good. It just seems like someone better could slide to there. But we desperately need a PG, preferably one that can shoot and play D.

The thing I hate the most about his stats, which sounds Brandon Knight-ish, is the ast/to ratio....5.8 apg/3.8 topg. That is NOT good.

McD seems to not care about those types of ast/to ratios though because we've had a lot of guys like that since he's been here.

[AtheJ415]

I'm a bit out the loop but whats the rumored deal with New York?

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/comments/8slr3f/tomorrow_news/



1 (Ayton) and 2021 Miami pick are off limits holding too much value.


It could be total bull, but worth reading the thread. Apparently he provided the same and deleted it after the person said they believe him now.

If NY rumor is true i just hope it doesnt turn out to be like the hand shake deal we reportedly had with Golden State when they drafted curry lol.

Well the real question is who would we be moving up for? I imagine if Trae is there this is a no brainer. But if not? I really don't want to move Bender and the others for SGA or Sexton, or guys like Knox. I could live with Mykal Bridges.

[AtheJ415]

if three draft possibilities at 16 (and this means not trading for a veteran ) are

1) Holiday
2) trading up with Knicks using future assets for Young
3) trading up with GRizz, taking Parsons, getting Doncic and using a lot of assets

I would rather have 2 and 3 than 1. One seems like just taking a player based on need.

If Holiday were 6'2", would we all be hating on this selection so much? Isn't the problem with Trae Young his defense and physical profile? How much better a shooter is Trae than Holiday? Is Trae's passing so valuable that we can overlook the defensive deficiency?

I get the Holiday pick. Teams are going to go after little guys in the playoffs, and the only PG in the draft who won't struggle on those switches will be SGA - but that's a few years down the line, after he adds 15 or so pounds.

Do we have Sexton ahead of Holiday on our board? Not sure. None of us prefer Holiday at 16, but I'll withhold judgment, since it looks like he'll be the selection if we don't move up for Trae or Shai - the latter of these seems even less likely, given his ascension up the draft boards.

If we make the pick at #16, we'll make the pick at the #31. If we take Holiday, I hope Bades-Diop is the guy at #31. If we get Zhaire at #16, I hope we take Carter or Khyri at #31.

Young/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Ayton would be a dream on offense and a nightmare on defense. I don't know if any coach would be able to make that work.

He doesn't sound like an exciting pick, but I'm ultimately ok with it given that he has been an elite long range shooter for 3 years and at least often gives good effort on defense.

I haven't watched him enough to complain about him too much....but the numbers look good and the buzz is pretty good. It just seems like someone better could slide to there. But we desperately need a PG, preferably one that can shoot and play D.

The thing I hate the most about his stats, which sounds Brandon Knight-ish, is the ast/to ratio....5.8 apg/3.8 topg. That is NOT good.

McD seems to not care about those types of ast/to ratios though because we've had a lot of guys like that since he's been here.

If I'm being completely honest he reminds me of Brandon Knight more than any other comparison. He also isn't the defender he gets credit for on here. I don't know where the mantra that he is a good defender came from--I think it was a post workout interview by some FO member, but while he has shown he CAN defend at times in college, his overall numbers on that end are poor.

Like Knight, he has a good looking jumper and can beat his man off the dribble and finish some really difficult shots. He also will settle for those difficult shots after dribbling for 10 seconds even with other guys open. That is why I do not want him at 16. He can end up really successful in this league but that mentality is going to have to change, and I don't know if it is just that his teammates in UCLA weren't great last year or what, but it is a major red flag.

[darealjuice]

If NY rumor is true i just hope it doesnt turn out to be like the hand shake deal we reportedly had with Golden State when they drafted curry lol.

Well the real question is who would we be moving up for? I imagine if Trae is there this is a no brainer. But if not? I really don't want to move Bender and the others for SGA or Sexton, or guys like Knox. I could live with Mykal Bridges.

The OP said in the comments it would be for Trae Young

[WeekapaugGroove]

If Holiday were 6'2", would we all be hating on this selection so much? Isn't the problem with Trae Young his defense and physical profile? How much better a shooter is Trae than Holiday? Is Trae's passing so valuable that we can overlook the defensive deficiency?

I get the Holiday pick. Teams are going to go after little guys in the playoffs, and the only PG in the draft who won't struggle on those switches will be SGA - but that's a few years down the line, after he adds 15 or so pounds.

Do we have Sexton ahead of Holiday on our board? Not sure. None of us prefer Holiday at 16, but I'll withhold judgment, since it looks like he'll be the selection if we don't move up for Trae or Shai - the latter of these seems even less likely, given his ascension up the draft boards.

If we make the pick at #16, we'll make the pick at the #31. If we take Holiday, I hope Bades-Diop is the guy at #31. If we get Zhaire at #16, I hope we take Carter or Khyri at #31.

Young/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Ayton would be a dream on offense and a nightmare on defense. I don't know if any coach would be able to make that work.

He doesn't sound like an exciting pick, but I'm ultimately ok with it given that he has been an elite long range shooter for 3 years and at least often gives good effort on defense.

I haven't watched him enough to complain about him too much....but the numbers look good and the buzz is pretty good. It just seems like someone better could slide to there. But we desperately need a PG, preferably one that can shoot and play D.

The thing I hate the most about his stats, which sounds Brandon Knight-ish, is the ast/to ratio....5.8 apg/3.8 topg. That is NOT good.

McD seems to not care about those types of ast/to ratios though because we've had a lot of guys like that since he's been here.

If I'm being completely honest he reminds me of Brandon Knight more than any other comparison. He also isn't the defender he gets credit for on here. I don't know where the mantra that he is a good defender came from--I think it was a post workout interview by some FO member, but while he has shown he CAN defend at times in college, his overall numbers on that end are poor.

Like Knight, he has a good looking jumper and can beat his man off the dribble and finish some really difficult shots. He also will settle for those difficult shots after dribbling for 10 seconds even with other guys open. That is why I do not want him at 16. He can end up really successful in this league but that mentality is going to have to change, and I don't know if it is just that his teammates in UCLA weren't great last year or what, but it is a major red flag.

Good breakdown and I totally agree hes more of a theoretical defender than the real thing at this point. I see the knight comparison, although if he's knight with better bbiq that's a decent to good player.

Part of my fear with him might just be from past mediocre mid round pg suns picks so maybe that's not fair to him but it's there.

I'd be underwhelmed but not completely heartbroken if he's the pick.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[BobbieL]

If NY rumor is true i just hope it doesnt turn out to be like the hand shake deal we reportedly had with Golden State when they drafted curry lol.

Well the real question is who would we be moving up for? I imagine if Trae is there this is a no brainer. But if not? I really don't want to move Bender and the others for SGA or Sexton, or guys like Knox. I could live with Mykal Bridges.

The OP said in the comments it would be for Trae Young

pretty sure salary would have to be matched - the best I could do was , since really don't want Mudiay is:

Bender/Williams
for
Thomas and a guy on a non guaranteed deal.