Wendell Carter Jr - The Block Panther Edition

[kulaz3000]

I just want to remind everyone that JJJ and Wendell Carter Jr have extremely similar measurements and JJJ isn't exactly an elite athlete.

[Poohdini1]

Woah, Carter does not move anywhere close to Brad Miller. My god, c'mon now. Brad miller would take an entire shot clock to drive from the 3 point line to the basket.

I think people are really underrating Wendall as an athlete.

Yeah I'm far from a big Carter fan but that's a bad comp lol. He's somewhere between Portis & Horford.

[BigUps]

The more I look at this pick, the more I'm convinced we just got the 3rd most complete player in the draft. I'd put Doncic and Ayton ahead of him, but outside of that, I think he's as complete a player as anyone in the draft. He has a really deep skillset and can be used in virtually any set. You're not going to have to take him off the floor to play a different style.

Sure, there are questions on his lateral quickness, but that was the same concern many had with Denzel and he's a fine defender. I think WCJ will be fine to stay with smaller players with the long arms and quickness he does have.

WCJ can do everything. Shoot, pass, post up, screen, defend the rim, great motor etc. He really doesn't have a hole in his game at all.

He's kind of like the Mikal Bridges of centers, but younger. There's nothing to dislike about that.

[jump]

First: I don't hate the pick, I think he was arguably the BPA. That said, I hate that "A" part of the BPA. I'm not sure what trade was possible that could have netted us Bamba, but if it was Bobby or 22 that Donyell Marshall'd us I will be very mad. If there really wasn't a trade available, I guess I can accept that.

Second: I feel like the whole C narrative on this kid is need driven. He is 6'10 in shoes. That's undersized for a C. Especially with mediocre speed and leaping ability. His size and game are best suited to PF. It is the same argument that is used for Denzel Valentine playing SF. We already have a SG and Valentine is too slow to guard SG's.

Third: After watching him, I definitely see a bevvy of post and perimeter scoring skills, but I see a guy who is slow-footed and a guy who lacks defensive tenacity. He is smart, but so is Valentine, so is McDermott and that doesn't stop quick guys from blowing by them or bigger guys going over them.

My take-away is that we will force-fit this kid to a position where he will be routinely outmatched and remain a turn-style to the rim defensive team.

Seems like people want to have it two ways: they moan that GarPax took a "90s style plodding big man" in an era where those types of players are being de-emphasized, and then they also moan that WCJ is undersized to be a center. But he has all the skills you want from a modern big man; he can shoot the 3ball, he can pass, he can dribble-drive, he blocks shots and rebounds.

Is him being 6'10" really that big of a concern if, at the same time, people argue that the back-to-the-basket 7 footer is becoming a dinosaur?

Thank you. I've been wanting to get to this point for days.

[League Circles]

And then we keep being swept in the first round for years to come... Typical Garpax...

A team with more good players on it than we've ever had in the history of the franchise, most of whom would be pretty young, is destined to be essentially a .500 team indefinitely? Just FYI that is what you're saying here. So if me clarifying what you're saying alarms you then maybe reread the scenario I painted.

We have two players reaching their peaks, they're not all-star level, Lauri that could hit the rookie wall at anytime and another big prospect when the league is going small... This sound to me as .500 ball for years to come. We're no players in free agency, we're.never able to trade to improve....

I bet Garpax will once again enter in despair mode and make a Ben Wallace, Boozer signing. They're always doing the same mistakes. Just wait and see them overpaying Jabari Parker...

Garpax don't have a clue and Jerry Reinsdorf accepts.... Actually he doesn't give a fu as long home games are selling out and we play some 1st round playoff games.

This franchise needs changes from top to bottom

Which 2 players are reaching their peaks? Justin Holiday and Lopez?

Other than a mistake for Felicio for seven percent of the salary cap the Bulls have committed to absolutely nothing in this rebuild. They are in no way married to anything regarding this roster. They have I would say 3-6 potentially good players (zero guaranteed):

Definitely possibly good IMO:
Lauri
Carter
Dunn

Possibly good with some more doubt IMO:
Lavine
Portis
Hutchison

(I think it's too late for guys like Valentine to emerge as actual good players in the NBA but maybe they could be good role players at some point but that's not important for the moment so I digress).

So anyways that's 3-6 potential good players now and then if they manage their salary cap perfectly they could add two or three in free agency. Absolutely none of these 5 to 9 players have been committed to yet. So if they manage it right they could have between five and nine good players which is at least one more than any team in the league has. Now obviously they may not have any Superstars but teams that won championships in the modern era without Superstars. 2-3 times in the past 15 years even.

Now without a superstar I will condemn the Bulls if they make moves that do not allow them to have those 5-9 potential good players that I would like to see. So I'm not praising them yet I'm just saying it's ridiculous to pretend as if they have locked themselves in mediocrity. They haven't locked themselves into anything and have a plausible way to become a contender as I've laid out.

[League Circles]

A player the caliber of Wendell Carter in my opinion in two years would easily start and play 30 minutes a game Golden State at the center position.

And what about Lauri? Would he play the 4 for Golden State? The problem with drafting WCJ is that one of the guys we picked at 7 in the past two years will have to come off the court when good teams go small.


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Why will they they have to come off the court? You're acting as if both Lauri and Carter don't have inside and outside scoring skills, jumpers and post moves, that they could use against teams when they go small.

Lauri would probably play mostly 5 for the Warriors not because of anything inherent but because he's a lot better than guys like zaza. And, more importantly, though indirectly, because Steph and Klay are better than zaza and co (and Lauri).

[League Circles]

Woah, Carter does not move anywhere close to Brad Miller. My god, c'mon now. Brad miller would take an entire shot clock to drive from the 3 point line to the basket.

I think people are really underrating Wendall as an athlete.

We're living in a ridiculous narrative driven world. If there's not a narrative to follow along with, many people can't muster interest or comment on an issue. In this case, many are clinging to the narrative that the Bulls FO is ruining the team and the false narrative that big centers can't positively impact games. They don't have room for nuance and facts. Just stories. The phenomenon proliferates society. Sports, poliics, etc

[jump]

Check out these highlights from last year, before he went to Duke. This is not a slow athlete.

Watch on YouTube

[_txchilibowl_]

Woah, Carter does not move anywhere close to Brad Miller. My god, c'mon now. Brad miller would take an entire shot clock to drive from the 3 point line to the basket.

I think people are really underrating Wendall as an athlete.

We're living in a ridiculous narrative driven world. If there's not a narrative to follow along with, many people can't muster interest or comment on an issue. In this case, many are clinging to the narrative that the Bulls FO is ruining the team and the false narrative that big centers can't positively impact games. They don't have room for nuance and facts. Just stories. The phenomenon proliferates society. Sports, poliics, etc

So true. And so annoying.

[League Circles]

Can't believe we have people still talking about player heights after wingspan and standing reach have been established as the correct metrics.

[chitowndish]

I think I'm just going to trust Pax on this one. I definitely don't feel too bad about Porter if he dropped that far and I actually do like Carter's game. I have concerns about the lateral quickness but he also looks like a guy that can be pretty devastating on the other end of those mis matches, he can take big guys off the dribble and would be a nightmare for smaller guys inside. So while GS would probably try and run switches on him, we can try and run switches on KD and punish him physically in the post all night just wearing him down. Those mismatches cut both ways and offensively Carter really looks primed to take advantage of them like few guys can just because of his strength and skill.

He also does complement Lauri well in that he can be a strong physical guy to complement Lauri's more finesse game and it frees up Lauri to do what he does best. How he molded his game to Bagley he can really complement Lauri well and still play to his strengths. I agree you can't out small ball the great small ball teams I think you have go big and punish them inside, be physical and out rebound them and it seems like Carter can do that well.

I really liked that article he wrote back on page 18 it was a great read and he seems like a really good kid. Seems like he really understands the game and is a really smart humble and hard working kid so I imagine he does have a lot of room to grow. Maybe not as some kind of overwhelming scorer but there are things he can correct with his defense, his footwork will improve with experience and I imagine he's going to continue to add post moves and his dribble drive game will continue to improve so he may grow into a more diverse player that has a lot of tools at his disposal. Probably not what I was hoping for going in but I do think there is a lot to like here.

[bad knees]

A player the caliber of Wendell Carter in my opinion in two years would easily start and play 30 minutes a game Golden State at the center position.

And what about Lauri? Would he play the 4 for Golden State? The problem with drafting WCJ is that one of the guys we picked at 7 in the past two years will have to come off the court when good teams go small.


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Why will they they have to come off the court? You're acting as if both Lauri and Carter don't have inside and outside scoring skills, jumpers and post moves, that they could use against teams when they go small.

Lauri would probably play mostly 5 for the Warriors not because of anything inherent but because he's a lot better than guys like zaza. And, more importantly, though indirectly, because Steph and Klay are better than zaza and co (and Lauri).

When a good team goes small, how often have you seen the other team “punish” them by having their bigs take them inside? I don’t watch every NBA game, but I don’t have any such recollections. The other team is always forced to go small as well. Maybe it will be different this time. Let’s hope.


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[TankOverlord]

I just want to remind everyone that JJJ and Wendell Carter Jr have extremely similar measurements and JJJ isn't exactly an elite athlete.

Also their stats are pretty similar. Initially I wanted to only come away with Doncic, JJJ or Young. No interest in Ayton, Bagley, Bamba or MPJ.

The more I looked into it, the more I realized WCJ should be part of that first group. Guys that are above average in 2 out of the 3 big categories : Shooting, creating, defense.

Taking on Parsons was fine with me as I too do not value 2019 FA that much, but no way I give up a future 1st. Only guy I'd consider doing that for would be Doncic and then it just comes down to whether you believe in Dunn. He showed me enough flashes last year to give him a shot.

JJJ and WCJ are both perfect fits next to Lauri, very happy to snag one of them.

[League Circles]

And what about Lauri? Would he play the 4 for Golden State? The problem with drafting WCJ is that one of the guys we picked at 7 in the past two years will have to come off the court when good teams go small.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Why will they they have to come off the court? You're acting as if both Lauri and Carter don't have inside and outside scoring skills, jumpers and post moves, that they could use against teams when they go small.

Lauri would probably play mostly 5 for the Warriors not because of anything inherent but because he's a lot better than guys like zaza. And, more importantly, though indirectly, because Steph and Klay are better than zaza and co (and Lauri).

When a good team goes small, how often have you seen the other team “punish” them by having their bigs take them inside? I don’t watch every NBA game, but I don’t have any such recollections. The other team is always forced to go small as well. Maybe it will be different this time. Let’s hope.


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That is correct and because so many bigs, just like Longley, Perdue etc in the 90s, do not have the skill to punish smaller players. Some do. They stay on the floor. Carter as the skill to POTENTIALLY be such a player.

[Poohdini1]

And what about Lauri? Would he play the 4 for Golden State? The problem with drafting WCJ is that one of the guys we picked at 7 in the past two years will have to come off the court when good teams go small.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Why will they they have to come off the court? You're acting as if both Lauri and Carter don't have inside and outside scoring skills, jumpers and post moves, that they could use against teams when they go small.

Lauri would probably play mostly 5 for the Warriors not because of anything inherent but because he's a lot better than guys like zaza. And, more importantly, though indirectly, because Steph and Klay are better than zaza and co (and Lauri).

When a good team goes small, how often have you seen the other team “punish” them by having their bigs take them inside? I don’t watch every NBA game, but I don’t have any such recollections. The other team is always forced to go small as well. Maybe it will be different this time. Let’s hope.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

If we ever play Boston or Philly in a playoff series, one of them will have to come off in crunch time or we'll get run off the court.

Boston will have Hayward or Tatum at the 4, Philly will just have Embiid and Ben surrounded by Covington & 2 shooters. Even Milwaukee runs Giannis at the 4 the majority of the time.

You're asking wayyyyy too much of Lauri or Wendell to guard Simmons, Tatum, Hayward, or Giannis. That's why this pick bothers me.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I just want to remind everyone that JJJ and Wendell Carter Jr have extremely similar measurements and JJJ isn't exactly an elite athlete.

This. Some of the Carter takes in this thread are laughably hyperbolic. Carter isn't nearly as bad an athlete as some here want you to believe. He is in fact a good athlete - he just isn't 'elite'.

I think this was a good pick and Carter is an excellent fit next to Lauri. The idea that this somehow insures the Bulls a decade of mediocrity is ridiculous. The draft is nothing but a crapshoot and Carter has as much a chance to break out as anyone.

[musiqsoulchild]

First: I don't hate the pick, I think he was arguably the BPA. That said, I hate that "A" part of the BPA. I'm not sure what trade was possible that could have netted us Bamba, but if it was Bobby or 22 that Donyell Marshall'd us I will be very mad. If there really wasn't a trade available, I guess I can accept that.

Second: I feel like the whole C narrative on this kid is need driven. He is 6'10 in shoes. That's undersized for a C. Especially with mediocre speed and leaping ability. His size and game are best suited to PF. It is the same argument that is used for Denzel Valentine playing SF. We already have a SG and Valentine is too slow to guard SG's.

Third: After watching him, I definitely see a bevvy of post and perimeter scoring skills, but I see a guy who is slow-footed and a guy who lacks defensive tenacity. He is smart, but so is Valentine, so is McDermott and that doesn't stop quick guys from blowing by them or bigger guys going over them.

My take-away is that we will force-fit this kid to a position where he will be routinely outmatched and remain a turn-style to the rim defensive team.

Fair points. How do you think it works though with Lauri at the 5 on defense? There was some talk that the Bulls were looking internally to move him to the Center.

And on offense, having a genuine low post option should really open things up for Zach + Holiday + Lauri. Especially, with Wendell's passing skills.

[DuckIII]

We're gonna battle for the 4 seed for the next 5-10 years and proceed to get bounced by Philly & Boston in the 2nd round every season.

We are nowhere near “battling for the 4 seed” next year.

[Chitownbulls]

Woah, Carter does not move anywhere close to Brad Miller. My god, c'mon now. Brad miller would take an entire shot clock to drive from the 3 point line to the basket.

I think people are really underrating Wendall as an athlete.

Yeah I'm far from a big Carter fan but that's a bad comp lol. He's somewhere between Portis & Horford.

Bad comparison. Brad Miller is a 2× All Star. WCJ will never be an All Star.

[DuckIII]

Did you guys see the Knicks fan kid who cried actual tears when Porzingis was drafted, who is now Zinger’s biggest fan, pouting like a baby in shocked disbelief when the Knicks drafted Knox?

He’s the personification of this board during draft time.