Welcome Zhaire Smith

[Bum Adebayo]

TLC doesn't belong in this conversation with Zhaire, TLC is a scrub who has no business being in NBA, when I see Zhaire I see real upside.

[TTP]

I disagree. KJ is almost out of the league not for his game or his lack of shot.
He's almost out because he may be a knucklehead.
That's why KJ is playing in SL and TJ, for example, is winning PO game.

Nothing I saw or I read suggests Zhaire is a knucklehead.
Only a feeling but if I'm forced to bet on which prospect will be aout of the Lague in 3 years, I take Robert Williams.
And not because he's a celtic.

KJ is out of the league because after 4 years, he's still just a great athlete that can't shoot, can't dribble, can't create, and isn't a good enough defender to make up for it. We've seen it countless times with that archetype and it's certainly within the range of outcomes for Zhaire.

And he never improved cause his mindset is the one of a knucklehead.
Andre Robertson can't shoot, can't dribble, can't create BUT he is became a "shutdown CB" and a key piece in his team.
However...will see. I'm fully on the Zhaire's bandwagon: it will be crowed in a couple of years.

So Zhaire needs to become the best wing defender in the league to match Roberson. You think that's his bottom 25% outcome?

[LloydFree]

If you look at his size, athleticism, motor, raw stats and BPM there's a lot of Oladipo to him. You can even stretch it to a poor man's Russell Westbrook, who also wasnt dropping crazy stats back in UCLA.

C'mon man, Zhaire Smith doesn't have a fraction of the ball skills those guys had.

We could have had a guy like that but we passed on Lonnie Walker.

But Lonnie Walker doesn't have close to the athleticism that those guys have. Lonnie Walker is a good athlete, but he isn't a freak NBA athlete. He has enough to compete, but he isn't special.

[kriss73]

KJ is out of the league because after 4 years, he's still just a great athlete that can't shoot, can't dribble, can't create, and isn't a good enough defender to make up for it. We've seen it countless times with that archetype and it's certainly within the range of outcomes for Zhaire.

And he never improved cause his mindset is the one of a knucklehead.
Andre Robertson can't shoot, can't dribble, can't create BUT he is became a "shutdown CB" and a key piece in his team.
However...will see. I'm fully on the Zhaire's bandwagon: it will be crowed in a couple of years.

So Zhaire needs to become the best wing defender in the league to match Roberson. You think that's his bottom 25% outcome?

To be out of the league in 3 years, Zhaire has not to improve in:

1. shooting
2. dribbling
3. creating
4. defending
5. regress to a knucklehead

So tell me: what's the odds of all this happening?

[kriss73]

PS: for what I saw, as a defender Zhaire is already in the same ballparck of Mikal but he is 3 years younger.
They're different defenders, but the overall quality si very close.

[Kobblehead]

But Lonnie Walker doesn't have close to the athleticism that those guys have. Lonnie Walker is a good athlete, but he isn't a freak NBA athlete. He has enough to compete, but he isn't special.

I disagree. I thought he was extremely explosive and dynamic all year despite playing on a reconstructed meniscus that probably wasn't even successfully operated on.

The combination of athleticism/shotcreating talent in the thing I'm interested in, though. I don't care much for pure athleticism on its own.

Walker is strong in regards to his combination of the two traits. His path of stardom is there if he wants it.

[LloydFree]

But Lonnie Walker doesn't have close to the athleticism that those guys have. Lonnie Walker is a good athlete, but he isn't a freak NBA athlete. He has enough to compete, but he isn't special.

I disagree. I thought he was extremely explosive and dynamic all year despite playing on a reconstructed meniscus that probably wasn't even successfully operated on.

The combination of athleticism/shotcreating talent in the thing I'm interested in, though. I don't care much for pure athleticism on its own.

Walker is strong in regards to his combination of the two traits. His path of stardom is there if he wants it.

I think Lonnie Walker has Josh Richardson upside, not Victor Oladipo upside, and that's due to athleticism.

[ZarcMumoff]

I see a lot of talk about his upside, but I don't think it's that high. The chances he ever develops the ability to hit pull-up jumpers off the dribble seem slim IMO.

I think his floor is pretty high though for how "raw" he is. Incredible athlete with a high b-ball IQ. Really good defender. Solid passer who rarely forces things. The shot needs to be sped up, but his numbers in the 2nd half of the season really give reason for optimism. Think the handle should be good enough to eventually attack closeouts, provided his shot improves.

I'll be pretty surprised if he ever averages more than 15 PPG, but putting up something like 12/5/3 while being a good defender seems reasonable.

[Chris76]

But Lonnie Walker doesn't have close to the athleticism that those guys have. Lonnie Walker is a good athlete, but he isn't a freak NBA athlete. He has enough to compete, but he isn't special.

I disagree. I thought he was extremely explosive and dynamic all year despite playing on a reconstructed meniscus that probably wasn't even successfully operated on.

The combination of athleticism/shotcreating talent in the thing I'm interested in, though. I don't care much for pure athleticism on its own.

Walker is strong in regards to his combination of the two traits. His path of stardom is there if he wants it.

I agree, Walker's shot creating could be very strong. He looks like a sharp shooter with range, game winners.

His perimeter defense should be very promising, just like Mikal.

BB could of questioned his character, crazy hair?

[ZarcMumoff]

But Lonnie Walker doesn't have close to the athleticism that those guys have. Lonnie Walker is a good athlete, but he isn't a freak NBA athlete. He has enough to compete, but he isn't special.

I disagree. I thought he was extremely explosive and dynamic all year despite playing on a reconstructed meniscus that probably wasn't even successfully operated on.

The combination of athleticism/shotcreating talent in the thing I'm interested in, though. I don't care much for pure athleticism on its own.

Walker is strong in regards to his combination of the two traits. His path of stardom is there if he wants it.

I agree, Walker's shot creating could be very strong. He looks like a sharp shooter with range, game winners.

His perimeter defense should be very promising, just like Mikal.

BB could of questioned his character, crazy hair?

Or his 0.204 free throw rate.

[Black Mage]

I could see him having a floor of Marcus Smart but with a shot. I'd take that without regrets.

Ridiculous. I take it you never saw Marcus Smart as an amateur.

Marcus Smart at age 18: 6'3.25" and 205 lbs, 6'9.25" wingspan.

Marcus Smart at combine age 20: 227 lbs., 8'3" standing reach, 10.55% body fat, vert 33S/36L, 3 quarter Sprint 3.26s, shuttle 2.96, lane agility 10.82

Zaire Smith just turned 19: 6'2.75", 199 lbs, 8'4" standing, 6'9.75" wingspan, 6.05% body fat, vert 33S/41.5L, Sprint 3.05s, shuttle 3.15, lane 11.02.

KJ McD Combine 21 yr old: 6'6", 195 lbs, 8'6" standing, 6'11.25" wingspan, 4.5%, 33/37, 3.1, 3.2 shuttle, 12.07

Zaire closer to Smart in terms of measurements than he is KJ. Give him an extra year to add weight and muscle and he'll be even closer to Smart. Zhaire also has A LOT more explosion as a leaper.

[LloydFree]

Don't get me wrong, Lonnie Walker is a good NBA athlete. I just don't see him as close to being the Freak, Allstar, type athlete, that Oladipo and Westbrook are at the moment. And again, Brown worked those guys out multiple times. If Lonnie Walker was that kind of Freak, he would have asked Phoenix to select him for that pick.

Watch on YouTube

[LloydFree]

I could see him having a floor of Marcus Smart but with a shot. I'd take that without regrets.

Ridiculous. I take it you never saw Marcus Smart as an amateur.

Marcus Smart at age 18: 6'3.25" and 205 lbs, 6'9.25" wingspan.

Marcus Smart at combine age 20: 227 lbs., 8'3" standing reach, 10.55% body fat, vert 33S/36L, 3 quarter Sprint 3.26s, shuttle 2.96, lane agility 10.82

Zaire Smith just turned 19: 6'2.75", 199 lbs, 8'4" standing, 6'9.75" wingspan, 6.05% body fat, vert 33S/41.5L, Sprint 3.05s, shuttle 3.15, lane 11.02.

KJ McD Combine 21 yr old: 6'6", 195 lbs, 8'6" standing, 6'11.25" wingspan, 4.5%, 33/37, 3.1, 3.2 shuttle, 12.07

Zaire closer to Smart in terms of measurements than he is KJ. Give him an extra year to add weight and muscle and he'll be even closer to Smart. Zhaire also has A LOT more explosion as a leaper.

That's not the point. You said Marcus Smart was his FLOOR. Marcus Smart was much better than Zhaire at the same stage and is one of the 10 best defenders in the NBA right now, IMO. There is no way Zhaire's floor is friggin Marcus Smart.

[Ericb5]

Ridiculous. I take it you never saw Marcus Smart as an amateur.

Marcus Smart at age 18: 6'3.25" and 205 lbs, 6'9.25" wingspan.

Marcus Smart at combine age 20: 227 lbs., 8'3" standing reach, 10.55% body fat, vert 33S/36L, 3 quarter Sprint 3.26s, shuttle 2.96, lane agility 10.82

Zaire Smith just turned 19: 6'2.75", 199 lbs, 8'4" standing, 6'9.75" wingspan, 6.05% body fat, vert 33S/41.5L, Sprint 3.05s, shuttle 3.15, lane 11.02.

KJ McD Combine 21 yr old: 6'6", 195 lbs, 8'6" standing, 6'11.25" wingspan, 4.5%, 33/37, 3.1, 3.2 shuttle, 12.07

Zaire closer to Smart in terms of measurements than he is KJ. Give him an extra year to add weight and muscle and he'll be even closer to Smart. Zhaire also has A LOT more explosion as a leaper.

That's not the point. You said Marcus Smart was his FLOOR. Marcus Smart was much better than Zhaire at the same stage and is one of the 10 best defenders in the NBA right now, IMO. There is no way Zhaire's floor is friggin Marcus Smart.

Smart has the floor game to play as a lead guard, and Smith doesn’t so Smart isn’t penalized for being undersized the way that Smith is. I don’t think it’s a good comparison at all. Smart was two notches above him as a prospect.


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[Sixerscan]

Why is anyone comparing him to Marcus Smart of all people? Smart played point guard in college Zhaire can barely dribble. They're completely different players.

"You know this Deandre Ayton guy is gonna be good I would say his floor is about CJ McCollum"

[TTP]

Ridiculous. I take it you never saw Marcus Smart as an amateur.

Marcus Smart at age 18: 6'3.25" and 205 lbs, 6'9.25" wingspan.

Marcus Smart at combine age 20: 227 lbs., 8'3" standing reach, 10.55% body fat, vert 33S/36L, 3 quarter Sprint 3.26s, shuttle 2.96, lane agility 10.82

Zaire Smith just turned 19: 6'2.75", 199 lbs, 8'4" standing, 6'9.75" wingspan, 6.05% body fat, vert 33S/41.5L, Sprint 3.05s, shuttle 3.15, lane 11.02.

KJ McD Combine 21 yr old: 6'6", 195 lbs, 8'6" standing, 6'11.25" wingspan, 4.5%, 33/37, 3.1, 3.2 shuttle, 12.07

Zaire closer to Smart in terms of measurements than he is KJ. Give him an extra year to add weight and muscle and he'll be even closer to Smart. Zhaire also has A LOT more explosion as a leaper.

That's not the point. You said Marcus Smart was his FLOOR. Marcus Smart was much better than Zhaire at the same stage and is one of the 10 best defenders in the NBA right now, IMO. There is no way Zhaire's floor is friggin Marcus Smart.

Even worse. He said his floor was Marcus Smart with a shot (thus a rich man's Marcus Smart), which doesn't make sense because we don't even know if the shot will translate.

[Black Mage]

Ridiculous. I take it you never saw Marcus Smart as an amateur.

Marcus Smart at age 18: 6'3.25" and 205 lbs, 6'9.25" wingspan.

Marcus Smart at combine age 20: 227 lbs., 8'3" standing reach, 10.55% body fat, vert 33S/36L, 3 quarter Sprint 3.26s, shuttle 2.96, lane agility 10.82

Zaire Smith just turned 19: 6'2.75", 199 lbs, 8'4" standing, 6'9.75" wingspan, 6.05% body fat, vert 33S/41.5L, Sprint 3.05s, shuttle 3.15, lane 11.02.

KJ McD Combine 21 yr old: 6'6", 195 lbs, 8'6" standing, 6'11.25" wingspan, 4.5%, 33/37, 3.1, 3.2 shuttle, 12.07

Zaire closer to Smart in terms of measurements than he is KJ. Give him an extra year to add weight and muscle and he'll be even closer to Smart. Zhaire also has A LOT more explosion as a leaper.

That's not the point. You said Marcus Smart was his FLOOR. Marcus Smart was much better than Zhaire at the same stage and is one of the 10 best defenders in the NBA right now, IMO. There is no way Zhaire's floor is friggin Marcus Smart.

Smart has played 4 NBA seasons and is 5 years older. That's A LOT of time to develop. I am not arguing that Zhaire right now is as good; but, it isn't a stretch to see him reaching Smart's level. He needs to get his weight up to about 212-215 lbs. He needs to develop a handle. He needs to show his defensive skills in college translate to the NBA.

If he achieves those things he isn't that far off of Smart. Yes they are different types of players, Smart is a thicker built player whereas Zhaire is going to be a leaner muscular pogo-stick type. However, the type of player on the court, their impact, could be very similar.

For all of Smart's ability, his offensive skills have not changed even a little bit. Almost all of his advanced offensive metrics have actually gotten WORSE in his 4 NBA seasons including, TS%, OWS, OBPM and VORP. His ORTG hasn't improved. His FG% is the same, 3pt% worsened, TRB the same, TOV worsened, and points have gone up a whopping 2 pts from 7.8 to 10.2 at 30 minutes a game.

Seriously, you guys don't think Zhaire Smith, presuming he sticks in the league, wouldn't have a floor of a better shooting Marcus Smart??? That isn't a very high bar to have to hurdle. Smart essentially lives off his defensive skill and given he's a top 5 player in that category if Zhaire is even a poor-man's version on defense but with better offense that makes him a decent player.

[Black Mage]

Why is anyone comparing him to Marcus Smart of all people? Smart played point guard in college Zhaire can barely dribble. They're completely different players.

"You know this Deandre Ayton guy is gonna be good I would say his floor is about CJ McCollum"

Come on, you're better than that Sixerscan. a 7' player physical profile compared to a small guard?

You know Zhaire is going to play as a guard in the league, he isn't going to be a wing. So his comparisons should be guard related. He obviously HAS to develop a handle to have any chance of matching up to Smart. I think he will.

[Ericb5]

Marcus Smart at age 18: 6'3.25" and 205 lbs, 6'9.25" wingspan.

Marcus Smart at combine age 20: 227 lbs., 8'3" standing reach, 10.55% body fat, vert 33S/36L, 3 quarter Sprint 3.26s, shuttle 2.96, lane agility 10.82

Zaire Smith just turned 19: 6'2.75", 199 lbs, 8'4" standing, 6'9.75" wingspan, 6.05% body fat, vert 33S/41.5L, Sprint 3.05s, shuttle 3.15, lane 11.02.

KJ McD Combine 21 yr old: 6'6", 195 lbs, 8'6" standing, 6'11.25" wingspan, 4.5%, 33/37, 3.1, 3.2 shuttle, 12.07

Zaire closer to Smart in terms of measurements than he is KJ. Give him an extra year to add weight and muscle and he'll be even closer to Smart. Zhaire also has A LOT more explosion as a leaper.

That's not the point. You said Marcus Smart was his FLOOR. Marcus Smart was much better than Zhaire at the same stage and is one of the 10 best defenders in the NBA right now, IMO. There is no way Zhaire's floor is friggin Marcus Smart.

Smart has played 4 NBA seasons and is 5 years older. That's A LOT of time to develop. I am not arguing that Zhaire right now is as good; but, it isn't a stretch to see him reaching Smart's level. He needs to get his weight up to about 212-215 lbs. He needs to develop a handle. He needs to show his defensive skills in college translate to the NBA.

If he achieves those things he isn't that far off of Smart. Yes they are different types of players, Smart is a thicker built player whereas Zhaire is going to be a leaner muscular pogo-stick type. However, the type of player on the court, their impact, could be very similar.

For all of Smart's ability, his offensive skills have not changed even a little bit. Almost all of his advanced offensive metrics have actually gotten WORSE in his 4 NBA seasons including, TS%, OWS, OBPM and VORP. His ORTG hasn't improved. His FG% is the same, 3pt% worsened, TRB the same, TOV worsened, and points have gone up a whopping 2 pts from 7.8 to 10.2 at 30 minutes a game.

Seriously, you guys don't think Zhaire Smith, presuming he sticks in the league, wouldn't have a floor of a better shooting Marcus Smart??? That isn't a very high bar to have to hurdle. Smart essentially lives off his defensive skill and given he's a top 5 player in that category if Zhaire is even a poor-man's version on defense but with better offense that makes him a decent player.

Sure he could get to be as good as Smart is now. I don’t think anyone is denying that. The point is that he is a far inferior prospect to what Smart was at the same age, and in order to catch up to him he will have to really improve.

Possible for sure. Calling it his floor is dubious. If he makes it in the league his floor is probably more like Willie Green.


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[FireMorey]

I don’t get the comparison to Smart either. Smart isn’t a leaper and may be the worst shooter in the NBA for a guard after Elfrid Payton. Smith can shoot, and is crazy athletic.

I’d be stunned if Smith doesn’t become a better player considering I don’t think highly of Smart at all. I was never big on “grit guys”