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State of the Roster: Summer 2018

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State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#1 » by coordinator0 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:30 am

Just a little heads up before free agency starts. It's very unlikely that the Pistons will be able to do much outside of trades but here are the players and their salary numbers anyways:

Blake Griffin------------$32,088,932
Andre Drummond------$25,434,263
Reggie Jackson---------$17,043,478
Jon Leuer---------------$10,002,681
Langston Galloway----$7,000,000
Ish Smith----------------$6,000,000
Josh Smith--------------$5,331,729 (dead money)
Stanley Johnson-------$3,940,402
Luke Kennard----------$3,275,280
Reggie Bullock---------$2,500,000 (unguaranteed)
Henry Ellenson---------$1,857,480
Eric Moreland----------$1,826,300 (unguaranteed)
Dwight Buycks---------$1,600,520 (unguaranteed)
Khyri Thomas----------$815,615*
Bruce Brown Jr.-------$815,615*

Total: $119,532,295

*= Value used for minimum contracts from the previous season. Figure will rise if/when the salary cap rises.

Cap Holds

Anthony Tolliver-------$3,948,000
James Ennis------------$3,936,933
Jameer Nelson---------$1,499,698

The only threshold that matters for the Pistons is the Luxury Tax. With the number I posted above that would have put them slightly into the luxury tax in this past season. The cap will most likely rise a bit and with it the tax threshold but Detroit will have practically no room to maneuver anyways. That's with only 14 players under contract as well. If they're lucky the cap will rise enough for them to fit another minimum contract onto the roster for their 15th player. Two-way guys can't really fill a spot with their days in the NBA restriction.

Also, say goodbye to Tolliver and Ennis. I really doubt the Pistons will be able to dump a contract and actually end up having cap space this summer. Maybe down the line, but not immediately. A rough depth chart of the current situation would be:

Reggie Jackson / Ish Smith / Dwight Buycks
Luke Kennard / Langston Galloway / Khyri Thomas / Bruce Brown Jr.
Reggie Bullock / Stanley Johnson
Blake Griffin / Jon Leuer / Henry Ellenson
Andre Drummond / Eric Moreland

What happens with Stanley will be interesting. I don't think he can start with Griffin and Drummond, but who knows what Casey will do. Bullock should be the starter. He's earned it, and Kennard at the two makes the most sense. If Johnson starts at the three and Reggie at the two then the rotation behind them gets interesting... and small at the three.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#2 » by Kilo » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:47 am

Two tweaks the Pistons need to do is swap out Ish Smith for a better fit and find a couple 3/4's to sign 2-way contracts.

It all comes down to Galloway and Leuer contracts dooming us. Galloway could vanish from the team and nobody would miss him, and Leuer could be replaced with a player making half his contract. That's 12M we could have to spend - a full MLE and money left over.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#3 » by JohnReese » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:12 pm

I would test Drummond value. I can see Hawks, Hornets, Mavs or Kings interested on him.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#4 » by Canadafan » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:55 pm

Thanks for all the info. Good to see it in writing. Not good to see Josh Smith :banghead:
I'm still all about taking on an extra year of salary in Fournier for our amazing combo of Leuer+Galloway :nod:
Time for Ellenson to get minutes and gives us a nice upgrade to our wings
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#5 » by Kilo » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:01 pm

I think we let Buycks go. I think Kennard will be looked on to get some PG minutes, meaning Reggie, Ish, Kennard and even Bruce Brown is our pg depth chart. If we're so tight up against the tax and not going to go over we could use the minimum contract elsewhere.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#6 » by ByeByeDre » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:17 pm

Kilo wrote:I think we let Buycks go. I think Kennard will be looked on to get some PG minutes, meaning Reggie, Ish, Kennard and even Bruce Brown is our pg depth chart. If we're so tight up against the tax and not going to go over we could use the minimum contract elsewhere.


I’d have to watch Kennard some more, I guess, because nothing I saw last year suggests point guard to me.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#7 » by DETermination » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:34 pm

I heard the pistons will be trying Luke at pg in summer league
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#8 » by thesack12 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:54 pm

DETermination wrote:I heard the pistons will be trying Luke at pg in summer league


Its probably just a matter of trying to get all of Thomas/Brown/Kennard as many minutes as possible.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#9 » by Snakebites » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:24 pm

My god looking at those salary numbers makes me sick.

Wtf, Stan. Wtf.

I honestly think he might have been one of the worst team runners I've ever seen or heard discussed. Really.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#10 » by thesack12 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:53 pm

Everybody celebrated when it happened, but using the stretch provision on Josh Smith is proving to be a really bad move.

Crap contracts get moved all the time, and with the cap explosion shortly after Smith signed his contract he could have been moved even easier. Plus it allowed Stan more $ in the short term to puke all over himself with guys like Leuer and Boban.

Smith is on the books for 2 more seasons. That $5 mil/season is a direct impact to the luxury tax being a big factor.

Should have just gave Josh the Luol Deng treatment.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#11 » by Collymore » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:04 pm

60M tied up longterm in a mediocre frontcourt and another 10M in a backup who wouldn't make most teams rosters. Sprinkle that with 5M of dead Josh Smith money. :lol:
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#12 » by Snakebites » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:23 pm

thesack12 wrote:Everybody celebrated when it happened, but using the stretch provision on Josh Smith is proving to be a really bad move.

Crap contracts get moved all the time, and with the cap explosion shortly after Smith signed his contract he could have been moved even easier. Plus it allowed Stan more $ in the short term to puke all over himself with guys like Leuer and Boban.

Smith is on the books for 2 more seasons. That $5 mil/season is a direct impact to the luxury tax being a big factor.

Should have just gave Josh the Luol Deng treatment.


I wasn't thrilled about the stretch specifically, I didn't really care too much about that. I was just really eager to get Smith off our roster.

And I don't think Smith would be as big a problem if SVG hadn't followed that up with so many absurd contracts to poor players. Leuer and Galloway were particularly unforgivable.

Stretching Smoove was the right call when we were assuming the resources would be used wisely after that, and the team would be effectively run after that. Unfortunately for all of us that didn't happen.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#13 » by DBC10 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:21 pm

Looking at those contracts, I'm sure teams will be using us as an example of a case study on why you don't let your head coach also be a President of ops either.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#14 » by 7r5ur » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:01 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
Kilo wrote:I think we let Buycks go. I think Kennard will be looked on to get some PG minutes, meaning Reggie, Ish, Kennard and even Bruce Brown is our pg depth chart. If we're so tight up against the tax and not going to go over we could use the minimum contract elsewhere.


I’d have to watch Kennard some more, I guess, because nothing I saw last year suggests point guard to me.

While his opportunities weren't abundant last year, I felt like he was one of the few guys who typically made the right play most often when he ended up with the ball in his hands. He plays under much more control than the rest of our carousel of backup PG's did last year.

Obviously I don't think he can defend the PG position though. That's where a guy like Khyri Thomas could come in. He could be an ideal PG who can defend like crazy and be a threat off-the-ball. Hopefully that's what they had in mind.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#15 » by Kilo » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:05 pm

Snakebites wrote:My god looking at those salary numbers makes me sick.

Wtf, Stan. Wtf.

I honestly think he might have been one of the worst team runners I've ever seen or heard discussed. Really.


It will look even worse when you see what the bigs are getting in free agency this off-season.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#16 » by The Penguin » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:48 pm

Kilo wrote:Two tweaks the Pistons need to do is swap out Ish Smith for a better fit and find a couple 3/4's to sign 2-way contracts.

It all comes down to Galloway and Leuer contracts dooming us. Galloway could vanish from the team and nobody would miss him, and Leuer could be replaced with a player making half his contract. That's 12M we could have to spend - a full MLE and money left over.



If someone will just take Ish's expiring deal, that's the first move I would make.

Dump Ish, waiving Moreland and renouncing our FAs puts us at ~$14,700,000 under the tax line. The full MLE is $8,500,000 and the Boban TPE is $7 mil, so basically by dumping Ish into someones space we could use the full MLE and the full Boban TPE and be just over the cap line.

That rips it down to:

Dre
Blake / Leuer / Ellenson
Stanley
Kennard / Bullock / Galloway / Thomas / Brown
Reggie

Backup PG and backup center are positions that can be filled with minimum level contracts. Would love to use the MLE on taking a chance on someone like Hezonja and the Boban TPE to eat a contract with a 1st attached from a team looking to make a big splash.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#17 » by The Penguin » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:50 pm

BTW this is a great tool to understand where we stand in relation to the tax and what's potentially available:

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#18 » by Snakebites » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:15 pm

The Penguin wrote:BTW this is a great tool to understand where we stand in relation to the tax and what's potentially available:

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator

This should clarify for people why it’s highly unlikely we’ll be using the MLE this year, and even next year barring a trade or cap increase.
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#19 » by coordinator0 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:27 pm

The Penguin wrote:Dump Ish, waiving Moreland and renouncing our FAs puts us at ~$14,700,000 under the tax line.


It doesn't. Detroit is at ~$119,532,295 (will be higher if/when the minimum deals for the second round picks are increased compared to last season) in salary for next season. That's not counting the free agent cap holds.

Dumping Ish puts them down to roughly $114 million, and cutting Moreland before one of his guarantee dates around $112 million. The tax was a bit above $119 million so you're looking at $7 million in room there. The cap and tax aren't rising enough to push that number to $14 million. Buycks can be cut to add another $1.6 million but with this scenario in mind you're looking at a point guard depth chart of Jackson... Kennard and Brown? Eh. Another point guard would be added so the team isn't gaining much in the end.

Basically if the team is able to dump Smith with no salary coming back and cut Moreland they will be able to use the full MLE this summer. That's about it.

And just so everybody is clear going forward (not referring to The Penguin he has the right of it), the Boban trade exception can only be used in another trade. Not to sign a free agent. And only by itself, not combined with anything else (like the other three trade exceptions Detroit currently owns). Here's a better explanation: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87
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Re: State of the Roster: Summer 2018 

Post#20 » by The Penguin » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:32 pm

coordinator0 wrote:
The Penguin wrote:Dump Ish, waiving Moreland and renouncing our FAs puts us at ~$14,700,000 under the tax line.


It doesn't. Detroit is at ~$119,532,295 (will be higher if/when the minimum deals for the second round picks are increased compared to last season) in salary for next season. That's not counting the free agent cap holds.

Dumping Ish puts them down to roughly $114 million, and cutting Moreland before one of his guarantee dates around $112 million. The tax was a bit above $119 million so you're looking at $7 million in room there. The cap and tax aren't rising enough to push that number to $14 million. Buycks can be cut to add another $1.6 million but with this scenario in mind you're looking at a point guard depth chart of Jackson... Kennard and Brown? Eh. Another point guard would be added so the team isn't gaining much in the end.

Basically if the team is able to dump Smith with no salary coming back and cut Moreland they will be able to use the full MLE this summer. That's about it.

And just so everybody is clear going forward (not referring to The Penguin he has the right of it), the Boban trade exception can only be used in another trade. Not to sign a free agent. And only by itself, not combined with anything else (like the other three trade exceptions Detroit currently owns). Here's a better explanation: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87




I got my numbers off the Capulator. Dumping Ish into space (not likely in this environment, so conversation probably stops there), waiving Moreland on a NG and renouncing all our FAs puts us at ~$110 mil, they project the tax line to be $123 mil.

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