Political Roundtable Part XXI

Zonkerbl · Post #141 » by **Zonkerbl** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:09 pm

Wizardspride wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=19

Dislike! Hope she's ok.

TGW · Post #142 » by **TGW** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:29 pm

closg00 wrote:Tom Arnold is certainly milking that pic of him and Cohen for all it's worth, I take what he saying with a huge grain of salt

I don't know what's dumber...Tom Arnold acting like he has inside information on the case, or the mainstream fake news media acting like Tom Arnold has inside information.

CNN was stroking their collective c**ks over that news. Nothing like a [washed up] celebrity involved in politics to milk the ratings.

Zonkerbl · Post #143 » by **Zonkerbl** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:47 pm

TGW wrote:
closg00 wrote:Tom Arnold is certainly milking that pic of him and Cohen for all it's worth, I take what he saying with a huge grain of salt

I don't know what's dumber...Tom Arnold acting like he has inside information on the case, or the mainstream fake news media acting like Tom Arnold has inside information.

CNN was stroking their collective c**ks over that news. Nothing like a [washed up] celebrity involved in politics to milk the ratings.

And then Cohen tweets literally hours later "Yeah Arnold took a selfie with me. That's it, we didn't discuss *anything.*"

dckingsfan · Post #144 » by **dckingsfan** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:55 pm

And now George Will has flipped over - it is hard at his age. But good for you George.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/george-will-vote-against-gop_us_5b2d95dee4b00295f15c8a75

stilldropin20 · Post #145 » by **stilldropin20** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:45 am

Read on Twitter

stilldropin20 · Post #146 » by **stilldropin20** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:31 am

PLEASE READ:

YOu need to know all of this!!

Last week the immigration "outrage" predictably reached a fever pitch. IMO, IG report just came out and the left needed something else to dominate the news cycle. and it worked.

But no MATTER your belief system on (illegal) immigration you should read this entire thread. It is well sourced with credible news sources many of them liberal news sources.

Read on Twitter

Zonkerbl · Post #147 » by **Zonkerbl** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:38 pm

Actually now that I've slept on it, I don't think a luxury tax on investment income would cause a mass exodus of businesses. Presumably we're at an equilibrium now where most of the businesses who want to be offshore are already offshore. Other countries also have crazy tax requirements that chase companies here or to tax havens like the Maldives. The *marginal* effect will be low, at least at first.

Made me think about national treatment of investment that the US is always trying to negotiate in the WTO - wait, so companies that don't contribute any money to the US treasury are supposed to be treated the same? How does that make sense? You should at least pay a "using the resources of the court" fee.

gtn130 · Post #148 » by **gtn130** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:26 pm

JWizmentality wrote:I'm totally here for Trump officials being shamed in public. Human decency and democracy fighting back.

Indeed. These NYT and WaPo op-eds on civility are total idiocy. Trump admin is literally putting babies in internment camps and the pundit class is all like "please be polite to these Nazis!"

Didn't think this was a controversial take, but people who support internment camps for children shouldn't be welcome in polite society.

verbal8 · Post #149 » by **verbal8** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:35 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=19

Dislike! Hope she's ok.

Not quite ok, but it looks like her long-term prognosis is good.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/24/politics/arrington-south-carolina-recovery-congress-accident/index.html

It is nice to see the civility of her opponent temporarily suspending his campaign.

dckingsfan · Post #150 » by **dckingsfan** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:44 pm

dckingsfan wrote:And now George Will has flipped over - it is hard at his age. But good for you George.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/george-will-vote-against-gop_us_5b2d95dee4b00295f15c8a75

Add Bloomberg to the list... (kind of exactly how I feel)

In addition, and no less troubling, Congress has essentially stopped acting as a co-equal branch of government, by failing to engage in the kind of oversight of the law that the Constitution requires and the public expects.

In fairness, some Republicans have taken their constitutional and legislative responsibilities seriously, like my friend John McCain. But too many have been absolutely feckless, including — most disappointingly — the House leadership.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-20/michael-bloomberg-why-i-m-supporting-democrats-in-2018-midterms

dckingsfan · Post #151 » by **dckingsfan** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:47 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Actually now that I've slept on it, I don't think a luxury tax on investment income would cause a mass exodus of businesses. Presumably we're at an equilibrium now where most of the businesses who want to be offshore are already offshore. Other countries also have crazy tax requirements that chase companies here or to tax havens like the Maldives. The *marginal* effect will be low, at least at first.

Made me think about national treatment of investment that the US is always trying to negotiate in the WTO - wait, so companies that don't contribute any money to the US treasury are supposed to be treated the same? How does that make sense? You should at least pay a "using the resources of the court" fee.

I don't think it is business - it is high net worth individuals, right? Are you thinking a luxury tax on businesses as well? And if we have loopholes in out tax policy, we wouldn't have loopholes in our luxury tax?

Zonkerbl · Post #152 » by **Zonkerbl** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:55 pm

I just don't want to turn into a country where we yell at each other in restaurants. But I think this is an inevitable outcome of being completely disempowered. The victims of Trump's evil feel there is literally nothing they can do but heckle Trump administrators wherever they find them. I just hope things don't get so ugly that people just close up and refuse to vote. I think that's what happened in 2016 - people got so turned off by how ugly things were that they just didn't show up at the ballot box at all.

Zonkerbl · Post #153 » by **Zonkerbl** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:58 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Actually now that I've slept on it, I don't think a luxury tax on investment income would cause a mass exodus of businesses. Presumably we're at an equilibrium now where most of the businesses who want to be offshore are already offshore. Other countries also have crazy tax requirements that chase companies here or to tax havens like the Maldives. The *marginal* effect will be low, at least at first.

Made me think about national treatment of investment that the US is always trying to negotiate in the WTO - wait, so companies that don't contribute any money to the US treasury are supposed to be treated the same? How does that make sense? You should at least pay a "using the resources of the court" fee.

I don't think it is business - it is high net worth individuals, right? Are you thinking a luxury tax on businesses as well? And if we have loopholes in out tax policy, we wouldn't have loopholes in our luxury tax?

I think the implication is if we put a luxury tax on investment income that that will indirectly encourage businesses to go offshore. I don't know how that works - I thought if you are a US citizen and you make income on an investment you have to pay tax on it. Doesn't matter where the company is. Right? Then it doesn't matter and you can go ahead and put a luxury tax on investment income.

verbal8 · Post #154 » by **verbal8** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:02 pm

dckingsfan wrote:And now George Will has flipped over - it is hard at his age. But good for you George.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/george-will-vote-against-gop_us_5b2d95dee4b00295f15c8a75

It must be heart-breaking for those who truly care about the Republican Party and the Conservative movement to see what it has become.

dckingsfan · Post #155 » by **dckingsfan** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:05 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Actually now that I've slept on it, I don't think a luxury tax on investment income would cause a mass exodus of businesses. Presumably we're at an equilibrium now where most of the businesses who want to be offshore are already offshore. Other countries also have crazy tax requirements that chase companies here or to tax havens like the Maldives. The *marginal* effect will be low, at least at first.

Made me think about national treatment of investment that the US is always trying to negotiate in the WTO - wait, so companies that don't contribute any money to the US treasury are supposed to be treated the same? How does that make sense? You should at least pay a "using the resources of the court" fee.

I don't think it is business - it is high net worth individuals, right? Are you thinking a luxury tax on businesses as well? And if we have loopholes in out tax policy, we wouldn't have loopholes in our luxury tax?

I think the implication is if we put a luxury tax on investment income that that will indirectly encourage businesses to go offshore. I don't know how that works - I thought if you are a US citizen and you make income on an investment you have to pay tax on it. Doesn't matter where the company is. Right? Then it doesn't matter and you can go ahead and put a luxury tax on investment income.

No - if you don't reside in the US you don't have to pay US income taxes. You would have to renounce your citizenship. But the unintended consequences are broad. And the liquidity implications for a tax like that are numerous.

Again, why not just fix the tax code?

verbal8 · Post #156 » by **verbal8** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:06 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:I just don't want to turn into a country where we yell at each other in restaurants. But I think this is an inevitable outcome of being completely disempowered. The victims of Trump's evil feel there is literally nothing they can do but heckle Trump administrators wherever they find them. I just hope things don't get so ugly that people just close up and refuse to vote. I think that's what happened in 2016 - people got so turned off by how ugly things were that they just didn't show up at the ballot box at all.

Trump clearly has one political skill. He did a tremendous job of getting people who hated both candidates to vote for him. Hillary Clinton was a gift-wrapped present for that. Maybe that is why he had interest in pardoning Rod Blogojevik. He was hoping he could run as a Democrat in 2020.

verbal8 · Post #157 » by **verbal8** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:08 pm

Recently I had a thought "What if Trump had run and won as a Democrat?". What would the presidency with "Democrat Trump" look like.

If it happened with a Republican Congress he would have been impeached the day he took office.

The first is what would it look like. I think what is happening with the judicial system would be the mirror image. Although it would still be a problem because instead of installing bad conservative judges, it would be bad liberal judges. A judge needs to be fair and competent vs. politically pure. If you easily know how a judge leans, they probably aren't a good one. I think there would be some liberal legislative accomplishment with a botched implementation. Possibly it would be a more centralized, but worse version of the health care system. Or maybe something narrower, but possibly left of the electorate like liberal abortion rights.

I think "Democrat Trump" would have created a similar foreign policy mess. Sanders really wasn't that far off in terms of practical effects of his approach, even if his rationale was different. A lot of the mess is just Trump doing a bad job.

I don't think he could have created the immigration mess as a Democrat. Maybe an overly liberally abortion rights, could have a mirror effect.

The thing I think that happens no matter what politically party put him in power is the corruption. Maybe the Republicans have more tolerance of it, but they don't have a Monopoly. I could see a pardon and nomination offered for Rod Blagojevich. He might be able to give Pruitt a run for his money. I am sure the "Democrat Trump" would nominate a number of celebrities to cabinet positions, without much background in the area. Kayne West probably is equally competent as the head of HUD as Ben Carson.

I think "Democrat Trump" would be mercilessly attacked by the press for his personal failings. There isn't a similar Fox News "Safe Space" for liberals. I think that in combination with his corruption would cause Democrats to end his presidency, even if they had control of Congress. I can't see any scenario where Democrats would not have gotten at least to the point of censure or some other official note of disapproval.

gtn130 · Post #158 » by **gtn130** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:38 pm

Harley-Davidson plans to shift some motorcycle production away from the US to avoid the "substantial" burden of European Union tariffs.

So much winning from the galactic brain Trump administration economic policies

gtn130 · Post #159 » by **gtn130** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:42 pm

verbal8 wrote:Recently I had a thought "What if Trump had run and won as a Democrat?". What would the presidency with "Democrat Trump" look like.

What is the closest analog to Trump on the left? ...Michael Avenatti? I genuinely don't know, and I don't think there really is one.

Trump could never win running as a Democrat or liberal unless he deleted every tweet dating back to like 2011 and had basically been an entirely different person from at least 2008 onward. It's not even about politics - a serial liar and obvious moron isn't ever going to pick up a lot of steam on the left.

Notice how Alex Jones panders to the right with all of his wild conspiracies and general idiocy. There's a strategic reason for this.

verbal8 · Post #160 » by **verbal8** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:43 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Harley-Davidson plans to shift some motorcycle production away from the US to avoid the "substantial" burden of European Union tariffs.

So much whining from the glacial brain Trump administration economic disasters

fixed