Wendell Carter Jr - The Block Panther Edition

[Truebiscuit]

I was watching NBA TV last night. They asked which rookie will make the biggest impact. They said Wendell Carter Jr because with our nice young core he will help them fight for a playoff spot.

But wait our young guys suck.... says. Realgm board.

Max Kellerman said he would have taken WCJ #1 overall because there was no true superstar in this draft and he felt WCJ provided the biggest bang for his buck.

[BullsFTW]

I was watching NBA TV last night. They asked which rookie will make the biggest impact. They said Wendell Carter Jr because with our nice young core he will help them fight for a playoff spot.

But wait our young guys suck.... says. Realgm board.

Max Kellerman said he would have taken WCJ #1 overall because there was no true superstar in this draft and he felt WCJ provided the biggest bang for his buck.

That's nice to hear but I really don't know how much college basketball Max Kellerman watches. Either he's a genius and sees the skills WCJ has or he's just saying it to start a debate. Regardless, there is a point to choosing WCJ over Ayton. Ayton has the athleticism and higher upside, but WCJ has the better all around skills and IQ.

[SensiBull]

None of us are going to truly know until 5-7 years from now, but, I will say this:

There is a reason that shows like First Take and Get Up and Undisputed do segments where people get to re-draft past drafts. Whenever disruption happens in a marketplace, there are people who hang onto the old metrics way too long.

There are people still walking around with Blackberry phones. Believe it or not, MySpace DOES still operate. When the polls tell you that Hillary Clinton has it in the bag, it's time to re-examine polling methods.

When the league is producing players like Draymond Green at Pick 35, Jimmy Butler at Pick 30, Giannis Antetokounmpo at 15, Kawhi Leonard at 15, it is not unfathomable that Pick 7 may turn out to have a better career than Pick 1.

The disruption that has happened in the NBA has been 'position-less basketball.' We're accustomed to hearing that "basketball is about matchups." What's changed is that, by picking players with a wider variety of skills, you can now take skills that are traditionally associated with one position, and move those responsibilities to a completely different player on the floor, before the opposing coach even works out what is happening.

Point Guards like Mark Jackson and Gary Payton had more polished back-to-the-basket post moves than 80% of todays bigs.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Wendell Carter, Jr. lends himself to that model with the wide array of polished skills he has compared to debatably all of the bigs picked ahead of him. Other franchises need to put bums in seats by drafting sexy, athletic players with a lot of bounce and leap in their games, who are one Achilles, one ACL, one back injury, away from being out of the league altogether.

The Bulls just picked the tortoise instead of the hare.

[Dominator83]

And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

I'm not a Bamba fan. But if he's your guy, then you give up the 50 million pretty easily. Or you give up the additional first pretty easily. My thing has been, Bulls aren't willing to pay the price to get a guy they truly want. They had two, Bagley Jr and JJJ I'm not a fan of JJJ either, but if he's your guy, then go get him.

This FO/Ownership is not willing to do that, ever.

[dougthonus]

I'm not a Bamba fan. But if he's your guy, then you give up the 50 million pretty easily. Or you give up the additional first pretty easily. My thing has been, Bulls aren't willing to pay the price to get a guy they truly want. They had two, Bagley Jr and JJJ I'm not a fan of JJJ either, but if he's your guy, then go get him.

This FO/Ownership is not willing to do that, ever.

That's an odd statement, since just a few years ago they traded up for McDermott, whom was the guy they really wanted. It didn't work out well, but they were willing to trade up.

Seems more likely to me that the Bulls just didn't really see a lot of separation between the guys higher on the board than Carter which makes sense to me, because I have significant questions about all of them too.

[Hangtime84]

I'm not a Bamba fan. But if he's your guy, then you give up the 50 million pretty easily. Or you give up the additional first pretty easily. My thing has been, Bulls aren't willing to pay the price to get a guy they truly want. They had two, Bagley Jr and JJJ I'm not a fan of JJJ either, but if he's your guy, then go get him.

This FO/Ownership is not willing to do that, ever.

That's an odd statement, since just a few years ago they traded up for McDermott, whom was the guy they really wanted. It didn't work out well, but they were willing to trade up.

Seems more likely to me that the Bulls just didn't really see a lot of separation between the guys higher on the board than Carter which makes sense to me, because I have significant questions about all of them too.

All i know is Bamba felt just as disappointed as we all did that night.

[Truebiscuit]

But wait our young guys suck.... says. Realgm board.

Max Kellerman said he would have taken WCJ #1 overall because there was no true superstar in this draft and he felt WCJ provided the biggest bang for his buck.

That's nice to hear but I really don't know how much college basketball Max Kellerman watches. Either he's a genius and sees the skills WCJ has or he's just saying it to start a debate. Regardless, there is a point to choosing WCJ over Ayton. Ayton has the athleticism and higher upside, but WCJ has the better all around skills and IQ.

My perspective was that he could have said anyone outside of Ayton... Bagley, JJJ, Bamba, Young.... yet he chose WCJ.

[bad knees]

Meanwhile, good news out of Finland. Lauri is working on his body and is looking more and more like a small ball 4 everyday.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[musiqsoulchild]

And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

I'm not a Bamba fan. But if he's your guy, then you give up the 50 million pretty easily. Or you give up the additional first pretty easily. My thing has been, Bulls aren't willing to pay the price to get a guy they truly want. They had two, Bagley Jr and JJJ I'm not a fan of JJJ either, but if he's your guy, then go get him.

This FO/Ownership is not willing to do that, ever.

I trust the FO with BPA anytime.

I do not trust them at all with "Let's shoot for the stars and get the guy we really want".

Tyrus Thomas
Doug McDermott
Viktor Khryapa

LeMarcus Aldridge
Jusuf Nurkic
Gray Harris

I mean....

[League Circles]

I was watching NBA TV last night. They asked which rookie will make the biggest impact. They said Wendell Carter Jr because with our nice young core he will help them fight for a playoff spot.

But wait our young guys suck.... says. Realgm board.

Max Kellerman said he would have taken WCJ #1 overall because there was no true superstar in this draft and he felt WCJ provided the biggest bang for his buck.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who would have considered him at #1.

[johnnyvann840]

None of us are going to truly know until 5-7 years from now, but, I will say this:

There is a reason that shows like First Take and Get Up and Undisputed do segments where people get to re-draft past drafts. Whenever disruption happens in a marketplace, there are people who hang onto the old metrics way too long.

There are people still walking around with Blackberry phones. Believe it or not, MySpace DOES still operate. When the polls tell you that Hillary Clinton has it in the bag, it's time to re-examine polling methods.

When the league is producing players like Draymond Green at Pick 35, Jimmy Butler at Pick 30, Giannis Antetokounmpo at 15, Kawhi Leonard at 15, it is not unfathomable that Pick 7 may turn out to have a better career than Pick 1.

The disruption that has happened in the NBA has been 'position-less basketball.' We're accustomed to hearing that "basketball is about matchups." What's changed is that, by picking players with a wider variety of skills, you can now take skills that are traditionally associated with one position, and move those responsibilities to a completely different player on the floor, before the opposing coach even works out what is happening.

Point Guards like Mark Jackson and Gary Payton had more polished back-to-the-basket post moves than 80% of todays bigs.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Wendell Carter, Jr. lends himself to that model with the wide array of polished skills he has compared to debatably all of the bigs picked ahead of him. Other franchises need to put bums in seats by drafting sexy, athletic players with a lot of bounce and leap in their games, who are one Achilles, one ACL, one back injury, away from being out of the league altogether.

The Bulls just picked the tortoise instead of the hare.

Yup. Look at Denver. They just maxed Jokic who is one of the best young players in the league. Look where they found him. A franchise cornerstone. They were criticized for the Jamal Murray pick and he looks like he's going to be one of the best players from his draft. They fleeced us in the Doug deal. Got Gary Harris (who proved to be an engine for that team last year- if he didn't get hurt when he did, they take that playoff spot over the Wolves), and Nurkic (who they flipped for Mason Plumlee and won that deal, too). They have been really savvy and built a hell of a young team with picks outside the top 5. Trey Lyles looks like he's going to be very good, although imagine if Connelly didn't foock that up. They should have Donovan Mitchell instead. Dohhh.

Imagine Denver with Gary Harris, Jamal Murray, Donavan Mitchell (instead of trading him for Lyles), Jokic and Plumlee.

yeah. I think Porter Jr. (over a lot of players) and trading Donovan Mitchell for Trey Lyles are going to be the things that are the difference between being contenders for the title and a 2nd round playoff team in the West. Connelly has done some really smart things and then he does some things that make you want to put a fist through a wall. I almost broke a lamp in a condo I was renting in Telluride when Porter was announced. I kind of knew it was coming when he was there and they were picking. Woj said it at the opening of the broadcast. First thing he said actually. Damn you Woj.

[bearadonisdna]

I once made a poll regarding player archetypes.
Franchise player
Number 1 scorer
3&D
Defensive specialist.

I said before that WCJ had quiet potential to fill all those boxes, figure I restate it now that he is a bulls player

That poll did not make sense just as this comment did not make sense.

That poll did seem to incite some posters, as it dispelled the narrative of overvaluing a 3&D or defensive specialist prospect.

Also i find it ironic a poster with a non-sensical username cant grasp a clear observation in a statement about WCJ

[keobulls]

I think that Wendell seems like a safe or boring pick because he moves so efficiently. Everyone is underestimating his athleticism because he moved like Tim Duncan this year at Duke. Carter doesn't jump any higher than he needs to to get the job done, just like Duncan never had amazing feats of athleticism. But a little shorter Dunca with a 3 ball would definitely help winning, no matter how unexciting he is (I hated Duncan for the longest time because he even made dunking boring). This video shows much more athleticism than his time at Duke:

Watch on YouTube

[thxfrthmmrs]

I once made a poll regarding player archetypes.
Franchise player
Number 1 scorer
3&D
Defensive specialist.

I said before that WCJ had quiet potential to fill all those boxes, figure I restate it now that he is a bulls player

That poll did not make sense just as this comment did not make sense.

That poll did seem to incite some posters, as it dispelled the narrative of overvaluing a 3&D or defensive specialist prospect.

Also i find it ironic a poster with a non-sensical username cant grasp a clear observation in a statement about WCJ

Non-sensical is using a 2K term to discuss real life basketball, and misusing that term (obviously franchise player isn't an archetype).

Non-sensical is creating a poll that gives a no brainer option.

Non-sensical is thinking Carter had potential be a 3 and D or number 1 scorer.

[Kurt Heimlich]

I once made a poll regarding player archetypes.
Franchise player
Number 1 scorer
3&D
Defensive specialist.

I said before that WCJ had quiet potential to fill all those boxes, figure I restate it now that he is a bulls player

That poll did not make sense just as this comment did not make sense.

That poll did seem to incite some posters, as it dispelled the narrative of overvaluing a 3&D or defensive specialist prospect.

Also i find it ironic a poster with a non-sensical username cant grasp a clear observation in a statement about WCJ

It's Pete Wentz' RGM account (Thanks for the memories)

[thxfrthmmrs]

That poll did not make sense just as this comment did not make sense.

That poll did seem to incite some posters, as it dispelled the narrative of overvaluing a 3&D or defensive specialist prospect.

Also i find it ironic a poster with a non-sensical username cant grasp a clear observation in a statement about WCJ

It's Pete Wentz' RGM account (Thanks for the memories)

Bravo, sir.

[BullsFTW]

But wait our young guys suck.... says. Realgm board.

Max Kellerman said he would have taken WCJ #1 overall because there was no true superstar in this draft and he felt WCJ provided the biggest bang for his buck.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who would have considered him at #1.

You're really high on WCJ huh. Do you believe he'll be a franchise type of player? Just curious because I didn't watch many Duke games.

[League Circles]

Max Kellerman said he would have taken WCJ #1 overall because there was no true superstar in this draft and he felt WCJ provided the biggest bang for his buck.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who would have considered him at #1.

You're really high on WCJ huh. Do you believe he'll be a franchise type of player? Just curious because I didn't watch many Duke games.

I am high on him. Franchise player in how I define the term? Probably not, no. I just think he has arguably the highest floor (possibly the surest thing to be a good player - and I think the value of having legit good players is underappreciated). I was concerned about bust potential from guys ahead of him for these reasons:

Ayton - questionable motor and defensive instincts

Bagley - questionable length, shooting range, defensive instincts

Luka - questionable athletic ability limiting him on both ends

JJJ - other than spot up shooting, questionable offensive skills, can't stop fouling

Bamba - questionable offensive skills, motor

Trae Young - sucks

[Truebiscuit]

Trae Young - sucks

[johnnyvann840]

I think that Wendell seems like a safe or boring pick because he moves so efficiently. Everyone is underestimating his athleticism because he moved like Tim Duncan this year at Duke. Carter doesn't jump any higher than he needs to to get the job done, just like Duncan never had amazing feats of athleticism. But a little shorter Dunca with a 3 ball would definitely help winning, no matter how unexciting he is (I hated Duncan for the longest time because he even made dunking boring). This video shows much more athleticism than his time at Duke:

Watch on YouTube

His footwork is a thing of beauty. You can tell he really does stay up nights watching Hakeem footage. He's got some of the Dream's footwork down to a T. Looks like a 12 year NBA vet in that video and he's 17 there. Wow. Don't be surprised 3 or 4 years from now when he is a better NBA player than Ayton and a true two way big. Really glad he's a Bull and you should be too.