Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

[Red8911]

p.s After listening to both Gar and Pax on ESPN1000, both of them seemed opposed to wanting to make the playoffs so soon.

So the notion that Paxson is trying to turn this around quickly is highly exaggerated.

I dunno man... after listening to them I kind of got the impression that they don't want to set any semblance of expectations. I think they'd be thrilled if we made the playoffs this season; I'm not anticipating a tank season. I also think Fred might be coaching for his job this season.

Nah they clearly don’t want playoffs especially mr genius Paxson. Based on all their interviews lately they say they want to build through the draft.I just don’t understand what they want anymore ,they already have so many high pick players with potential. If they tank or have a bad season again that just means that the players they have now suck,if that’s the case then might as well trade them and start all over from scratch.

The current squad though is ready to compete not tank,what are they going to do start resting them again or fake injuries?Also guys like Dunn,Lavine,Portis and some others are at their prime age for basketball,it would be dumb to waste their year. I for one think winning will benefit this team more than tanking.

[BR0D1E86]

Read on Twitter

#Bulls' RFA PG Zach LaVine is an intriguing name to several teams. Still just 23, LaVine is an elite finisher who can play both on and off the ball. 6-5 playmaker who shoots it and will command big $$$. #Lakers, #Pacers and the #Kings are other possibilities.
8:16 PM - 25 Jun 2018

Those of you who are praying for a 12-15mil contract will be in for a big surprise. LaVine is a 6ft6 athletic freak, with PG ball handling skills, with unlimited range in his shots, with ability to take it to the hoop or step back on the perimeter, with elite work ethic, with solid man-to-man defense and improving team defense, and he just turned 23. The player you all saw in the last 24 games after coming off an ACL injury is not the player LaVine is. He will get a contract that averages much closer to 20mil a season, but not max though. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do if he gets that crazy offer from one of those teams out there.

If he’s as good as he was when he left Minnesota he’s worth about 6 or 7 million a year. If you project improvement, maybe 12-15. If his injury return season is indicative of his long term value (I don’t think it is), he shouldn’t be on a roster.

Let’s be honest here. He’s been a poor basketball player every year of his career. He has some intriguing skills, to be sure. They’ve always translated to making his team worse so far. I’m open to paying more than we probably should for his potential, but anything above about 15 or 16 a year and I won’t lose a minute of sleep over declining.

[Threekola]

Read on Twitter

#Bulls' RFA PG Zach LaVine is an intriguing name to several teams. Still just 23, LaVine is an elite finisher who can play both on and off the ball. 6-5 playmaker who shoots it and will command big $$$. #Lakers, #Pacers and the #Kings are other possibilities.
8:16 PM - 25 Jun 2018

Those of you who are praying for a 12-15mil contract will be in for a big surprise. LaVine is a 6ft6 athletic freak, with PG ball handling skills, with unlimited range in his shots, with ability to take it to the hoop or step back on the perimeter, with elite work ethic, with solid man-to-man defense and improving team defense, and he just turned 23. The player you all saw in the last 24 games after coming off an ACL injury is not the player LaVine is. He will get a contract that averages much closer to 20mil a season, but not max though. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do if he gets that crazy offer from one of those teams out there.

If he’s as good as he was when he left Minnesota he’s worth about 6 or 7 million a year. If you project improvement, maybe 12-15. If his injury return season is indicative of his long term value (I don’t think it is), he shouldn’t be on a roster.

Let’s be honest here. He’s been a poor basketball player every year of his career. He has some intriguing skills, to be sure. They’ve always translated to making his team worse so far. I’m open to paying more than we probably should for his potential, but anything above about 15 or 16 a year and I won’t lose a minute of sleep over declining.

I get the disagreement on LaVine, I really do, but the level of criticism is outrageous. Not on a roster based on last year? The guy almost averaged 17 ppg in about 27 mpg with a PER of 14.65. If that doesn't deserve a roster spot, by PER, we can't even fill out 13 teams.

[League Circles]

All the year people said that Levine was the centerpiece of the trade. I always question that and suggested that the Bulls May perceive him as the third asset which is how I perceive him behind the number 7 pick (Lauri) and Dunn.

I even suggested that they should (and might have) traded him at the deadline. I was laughed at, saying there was no way we'd have traded for him just to turn around and trade him again (which didn't make sense to me).

Now I'm wondering if they were hoping all along that he'd come back from the ACL, put together 2 or 3 nominally impressive stats (likely by traditional stats, not "advanced" ones), and lure some other team into offering something like a pick for him.

I never really thought they could be dumb enough to hold him in the esteem that was alleged.

[Truebiscuit]

Those of you who are praying for a 12-15mil contract will be in for a big surprise. LaVine is a 6ft6 athletic freak, with PG ball handling skills, with unlimited range in his shots, with ability to take it to the hoop or step back on the perimeter, with elite work ethic, with solid man-to-man defense and improving team defense, and he just turned 23. The player you all saw in the last 24 games after coming off an ACL injury is not the player LaVine is. He will get a contract that averages much closer to 20mil a season, but not max though. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do if he gets that crazy offer from one of those teams out there.

If he’s as good as he was when he left Minnesota he’s worth about 6 or 7 million a year. If you project improvement, maybe 12-15. If his injury return season is indicative of his long term value (I don’t think it is), he shouldn’t be on a roster.

Let’s be honest here. He’s been a poor basketball player every year of his career. He has some intriguing skills, to be sure. They’ve always translated to making his team worse so far. I’m open to paying more than we probably should for his potential, but anything above about 15 or 16 a year and I won’t lose a minute of sleep over declining.

I get the disagreement on LaVine, I really do, but the level of criticism is outrageous. Not on a roster based on last year? The guy almost averaged 17 ppg in about 27 mpg with a PER of 14.65. If that doesn't deserve a roster spot, by PER, we can't even fill out 13 teams.

Dude shot over 40% from three his first two months back before his legs gave out his final 7 games of the season. Talent is clearly there and it translates onto the court. He just needs to work on defense and playing within the scheme. I think he can do that, but time will tell.

[Darius Miles Davis]

solid man-to-man defense and improving team defense

This is...generous.

[TheSuzerain]

Making a proactive offer to Lavine seems really dumb to me.

Step 1 of this should be Lavine trying to receive an offer in FA and failing. Only after that should Bulls engage.

[League Circles]

Those of you who are praying for a 12-15mil contract will be in for a big surprise. LaVine is a 6ft6 athletic freak, with PG ball handling skills, with unlimited range in his shots, with ability to take it to the hoop or step back on the perimeter, with elite work ethic, with solid man-to-man defense and improving team defense, and he just turned 23. The player you all saw in the last 24 games after coming off an ACL injury is not the player LaVine is. He will get a contract that averages much closer to 20mil a season, but not max though. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do if he gets that crazy offer from one of those teams out there.

If he’s as good as he was when he left Minnesota he’s worth about 6 or 7 million a year. If you project improvement, maybe 12-15. If his injury return season is indicative of his long term value (I don’t think it is), he shouldn’t be on a roster.

Let’s be honest here. He’s been a poor basketball player every year of his career. He has some intriguing skills, to be sure. They’ve always translated to making his team worse so far. I’m open to paying more than we probably should for his potential, but anything above about 15 or 16 a year and I won’t lose a minute of sleep over declining.

I get the disagreement on LaVine, I really do, but the level of criticism is outrageous. Not on a roster based on last year? The guy almost averaged 17 ppg in about 27 mpg with a PER of 14.65. If that doesn't deserve a roster spot, by PER, we can't even fill out 13 teams.

Why would you mention filling out a roster by PER?

Bottom line LaVine was extremely inefficient and took a ton of shots and played really bad defense. He seemed to have a very negative impact on the team, and the metrics supported that.

[BR0D1E86]

Those of you who are praying for a 12-15mil contract will be in for a big surprise. LaVine is a 6ft6 athletic freak, with PG ball handling skills, with unlimited range in his shots, with ability to take it to the hoop or step back on the perimeter, with elite work ethic, with solid man-to-man defense and improving team defense, and he just turned 23. The player you all saw in the last 24 games after coming off an ACL injury is not the player LaVine is. He will get a contract that averages much closer to 20mil a season, but not max though. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do if he gets that crazy offer from one of those teams out there.

If he’s as good as he was when he left Minnesota he’s worth about 6 or 7 million a year. If you project improvement, maybe 12-15. If his injury return season is indicative of his long term value (I don’t think it is), he shouldn’t be on a roster.

Let’s be honest here. He’s been a poor basketball player every year of his career. He has some intriguing skills, to be sure. They’ve always translated to making his team worse so far. I’m open to paying more than we probably should for his potential, but anything above about 15 or 16 a year and I won’t lose a minute of sleep over declining.

I get the disagreement on LaVine, I really do, but the level of criticism is outrageous. Not on a roster based on last year? The guy almost averaged 17 ppg in about 27 mpg with a PER of 14.65. If that doesn't deserve a roster spot, by PER, we can't even fill out 13 teams.

He got volume stats by dominating the ball like he was Lebron James on steroids. And every other player on the team immediately went in the tank when he started playing. I was monstrously unimpressed with everything about him last season. I consider it a write off season for him, but he was pretty horrific.

[League Circles]

Making a proactive offer to Lavine seems really dumb to me.

Step 1 of this should be Lavine trying to receive an offer in FA and failing. Only after that should Bulls engage.

In my opinion that almost guarantees he'll play for the qualifying offer. He'll just be so angry.

I consider the qualifying offer a very bad scenario.

[Threekola]

If he’s as good as he was when he left Minnesota he’s worth about 6 or 7 million a year. If you project improvement, maybe 12-15. If his injury return season is indicative of his long term value (I don’t think it is), he shouldn’t be on a roster.

Let’s be honest here. He’s been a poor basketball player every year of his career. He has some intriguing skills, to be sure. They’ve always translated to making his team worse so far. I’m open to paying more than we probably should for his potential, but anything above about 15 or 16 a year and I won’t lose a minute of sleep over declining.

I get the disagreement on LaVine, I really do, but the level of criticism is outrageous. Not on a roster based on last year? The guy almost averaged 17 ppg in about 27 mpg with a PER of 14.65. If that doesn't deserve a roster spot, by PER, we can't even fill out 13 teams.

Why would you mention filling out a roster by PER?

Bottom line LaVine was extremely inefficient and took a ton of shots and played really bad defense. He seemed to have a very negative impact on the team, and the metrics supported that.

Because it's a number that is intended to quantify performance, I don't think it's necessary to get into a debate over the exact precision of that where LaVine is rated at around 150 in the league. The point is the claim that LaVine doesn't deserve a roster spot is laughable hyperbole. Grant is better? Felicio is better? Zipser is better? I don't care how down you are on Zach, you can't say he's a scrub who shouldn't be in the league.

[BR0D1E86]

I get the disagreement on LaVine, I really do, but the level of criticism is outrageous. Not on a roster based on last year? The guy almost averaged 17 ppg in about 27 mpg with a PER of 14.65. If that doesn't deserve a roster spot, by PER, we can't even fill out 13 teams.

Why would you mention filling out a roster by PER?

Bottom line LaVine was extremely inefficient and took a ton of shots and played really bad defense. He seemed to have a very negative impact on the team, and the metrics supported that.

Because it's a number that is intended to quantify performance, I don't think it's necessary to get into a debate over the exact precision of that where LaVine is rated at around 150 in the league. The point is the claim that LaVine doesn't deserve a roster spot is laughable hyperbole. Grant is better? Felicio is better? Zipser is better? I don't care how down you are on Zach, you can't say he's a scrub who shouldn't be in the league.

You’re correct, I overstated. He does belong on a speculative, end of the rotation contract. I would not want him on my team though.

This is a consistent position for me. I’m been pretty negative on him for several years now. I think he’s one of a number of players over the years that have decent looking stats and make pretty plays, but ultimately play losing basketball and their teams never win anything.

I’m not sure what Zipser and Felicio have to do with anything. Neither of them played like they belonged on an nba roster last season either. That’s a big reason why Zipser probably won’t be on an nba roster this season, and Felicio spent a bunch of time not on an nba roster last season.

[MisterRoy]

I can't wait until we sign LaVine and this conversation is over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[johnnyvann840]

I'm too lazy to link it but the CARMELO projection on 538 for Lavine is horrifying.

Crazy. I hadn't seen that and I put his value at around $8M/per. They have him at $7.8M.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/zach-lavine/

[madvillian]

I'm too lazy to link it but the CARMELO projection on 538 for Lavine is horrifying.

Crazy. I hadn't seen that and I put his value at around $8M/per. They have him at $7.8M.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/zach-lavine/

Thanks for adding the link. I love how Trey Burke shows up on the comp list.

[bad knees]

I'm too lazy to link it but the CARMELO projection on 538 for Lavine is horrifying.

Crazy. I hadn't seen that and I put his value at around $8M/per. They have him at $7.8M.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/zach-lavine/

538's CARMELO ranking estimates his total value over the next four years to be $27.8 M. That seems fair - 4/28, just to throw in an extra 200 K to foster good feelings.

[johnnyvann840]

Making a proactive offer to Lavine seems really dumb to me.

Step 1 of this should be Lavine trying to receive an offer in FA and failing. Only after that should Bulls engage.

In my opinion that almost guarantees he'll play for the qualifying offer. He'll just be so angry.

I consider the qualifying offer a very bad scenario.

Why? You think if he pulls a Jimmy Butler and "bets on himself" he'll just be in it for his own counting stats and he'll just continue his 4 year trend of making his team much much worse when he's on the floor? I kind of agree. I would rather just let him walk. But, we know the Bulls are way too proud to do that. That would be admitting a mistake. But, it's not really. So what if we only got Lauri and Dunn out of the Jimmy trade. We also got worse and got the #7 this draft, so you just have to do what you have to do to make this team better. Overpaying Lavine is not the answer.

If nobody else gives him a decent offer, I think we are stuck with him essentially playing for a contract. I'm with you, E, I don't like the sound of that.

[League Circles]

I get the disagreement on LaVine, I really do, but the level of criticism is outrageous. Not on a roster based on last year? The guy almost averaged 17 ppg in about 27 mpg with a PER of 14.65. If that doesn't deserve a roster spot, by PER, we can't even fill out 13 teams.

Why would you mention filling out a roster by PER?

Bottom line LaVine was extremely inefficient and took a ton of shots and played really bad defense. He seemed to have a very negative impact on the team, and the metrics supported that.

Because it's a number that is intended to quantify performance, I don't think it's necessary to get into a debate over the exact precision of that where LaVine is rated at around 150 in the league. The point is the claim that LaVine doesn't deserve a roster spot is laughable hyperbole. Grant is better? Felicio is better? Zipser is better? I don't care how down you are on Zach, you can't say he's a scrub who shouldn't be in the league.

I would definitely say those three guys were better last year. They won't just throw games directly in the toilet for you like Zach regularly did.

He definitely belongs in the league based on his first three years and based on potential going forward. If he continues to play like he did for us last season then he will not belong in the league for very long at all.

[TheSuzerain]

Making a proactive offer to Lavine seems really dumb to me.

Step 1 of this should be Lavine trying to receive an offer in FA and failing. Only after that should Bulls engage.

In my opinion that almost guarantees he'll play for the qualifying offer. He'll just be so angry.

I consider the qualifying offer a very bad scenario.

You make it clear to him that signing the qualifying offer will result in him getting Noel'd and benched.

[madvillian]

I'm too lazy to link it but the CARMELO projection on 538 for Lavine is horrifying.

Crazy. I hadn't seen that and I put his value at around $8M/per. They have him at $7.8M.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/zach-lavine/

538's CARMELO ranking estimates his total value over the next four years to be $27.8 M. That seems fair - 4/28, just to throw in an extra 200 K to foster good feelings.

He's not going to think he's an 8 million a year guy though. I'd humor him and tell him to prove it and go as high as two years 30 million total. He obviously likes Chicago if he comes back after two years and is actually a good starter then they can talk about paying him like one long term.

Of course this assumes that the market for him isn't perfectly in line with what CARMELO sees. If it is, then **** it, no reason to offer him anything but what it will take to match.