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What to expect from our young guns.

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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#21 » by driveandkick » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:25 am

MasterIchiro wrote:PG
Kemba - 32 minutes
MLE - 12 minutes (Mitch keeps saying they will add vet backcourt help)
Graham - 4 minutes (Traded up for a senior, had him rated first round)
Monk - 0

SG
Lamb - 28 minutes
Monk - 20 minutes
Bacon - 0

SF
Batum - 30 minutes
Bridges - 13 minutes
MKG - 5 minutes

PF
Kaminsky - 24 minutes
Marvin - 15 minutes
Bridges 7 minutes
MKG - 2 minutes

C
Zeller - 26 minutes
Hernangomez - 18 minutes
Kaminsky - 4 minutes

Totals
Kemba - 32
Batum - 30
Lamb - 28
Kaminsky - 28
Zeller - 26
Monk - 20
Bridges - 20
Hernangomez - 18
Marvin - 15
MLE - 12
MKG - 7
Graham - 4

Great post and probably realistic too. I still think Monk should be getting more than 20 minutes, and are you that low on Bacon? I was thinking he should be in line for 12 minutes a game this season. We should really think about trading Lamb. If keeping Kemba long term is the plan then there's no way we can afford a new Lamb deal next season anyways, because he's a valuable player especially off the bench. I almost wish we'd just say screw it and move Lamb. Then again I'm just eager to see the young guys. I also realize there's probably a zero percent chance that Monk or Bacon will be a better player than Jeremy Lamb will be at any point next season.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#22 » by 316Hornets » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:31 am

KingCat wrote:So what do people generally think Monk's long term role on this team is? Not gonna lie for most of the year I thought he was 6'4 or 6'5 so I figured he would pair great with Kemba. I was disappointed to find out that wasn't the case. Do people think he can play with Kemba? Maybe a 6th man role? Trade Kemba and have him take the reigns as PG?


Honestly, it's so hard to guess what can happen with Monk. A player like him, that's shown an ability for great games, could continue to grow or bomb out completely. His overall field goal percentage last year was pretty bad and he looked like a runt on the court against most teams. I do like his quick release and sometimes WTF shots; if he only he could make them, then he'd be deadly.

His best chance at growth is to learn the PG role and play off ball to Lamb on the 2nd unit. Starters, 2nd unit are all interchangeable in today's NBA. Last year, the 2nd unit was brutal. Will they improve this year with Miles, MLE, Willy?
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#23 » by fatlever » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:47 am

LOL at MKG getting 7 mpg. Either he's traded or gets 20+.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#24 » by SeanBobcats » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:13 am

fatlever wrote:LOL at MKG getting 7 mpg. Either he's traded or gets 20+.


People don't seem to realize that MKG has a chance to look better than ever with the team this year. And I'm not saying this because I'm still a huge MKG believer (which I was in the past). He's played in basically the same system since his second year in the league which seemed to cut out the few strengths he has on offense such as his transition game and cutting ability. He also should have been getting more looks in small ball lineups which I definitely think he will get this year. I've gotta think a faster pace could bring out some of MK's strengths more than ever with Borrego.

I'm not saying MKG is necessarily a part of this team's future, but if we do look to move him, it's better to sell high than sell low.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#25 » by Braggins » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:31 am

I honestly don't think we need to go out of our way to sign a backup PG. Monks best defensive position is PG, so a playmaking wing would be better than a traditional backup PG imo. I also think Batum should come off the bench, so we kind of already have that playmaking wing. If the best player available to us via the MLE happens to be a backup PG that fits with our roster, then so be it, but I see no reason to force it.

I also don't understand some of the MKG takes. Hes literally the only player on the entire roster who is an above average wing defender and he also doesn't have any trade value. A team full of one dimensional offensive players isn't going to work, even in todays run and gun NBA. Teams like the Rockets and Warriors don't just beat people by chucking 3 pointers and ignoring everything else. They are stacked with good wing defenders. He is not someone who will cause addition by subtraction. He is a necessary piece on this roster if we are trying to win games until we actually find a better player that can make his skill set obsolete. I'd be curious to see some examples of realistic MKG trades that people think will actually make the team better.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#26 » by 316Hornets » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:36 am

I think we have to trade whoever is in front of Lamb. Batum is untradeable so MKG is the guy.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#27 » by 316Hornets » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:40 am

If MKG could shoot 3s, he'd have a place on this team. He's such a drain on the offense that I don't think he'll do well here. All he does is stand mid range and wait to get the ball to shoot his bunny. He's Dwight 2.0.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#28 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:35 am

SeanBobcats wrote:
fatlever wrote:LOL at MKG getting 7 mpg. Either he's traded or gets 20+.


People don't seem to realize that MKG has a chance to look better than ever with the team this year. And I'm not saying this because I'm still a huge MKG believer (which I was in the past). He's played in basically the same system since his second year in the league which seemed to cut out the few strengths he has on offense such as his transition game and cutting ability. He also should have been getting more looks in small ball lineups which I definitely think he will get this year. I've gotta think a faster pace could bring out some of MK's strengths more than ever with Borrego.

I'm not saying MKG is necessarily a part of this team's future, but if we do look to move him, it's better to sell high than sell low.

That's certainly possible, but it's also equally possible that this ends up being a Kenneth Faried situation. Faried was Denver's third highest paid player last year on a contract very similar to MKG. At one time he was viewed as a super important part of their roster. In spite of all that he spent most of the last year nailed to the bench even though he's been 100% healthy. Faried even has some interesting skills - he's a good rebounder, gets steals, and even has the occasional really nice pass. However Denver went out and got an expensive modern PF in Milsap and sat him anyway.

Like MKG, Faried's skills were not suited to where the game has gone. He doesn't shoot 3s. He can't run an offense as a point forward. He isn't tall enough to be moved up a position on a nightly basis (and the team has a surplus of guys at that spot anyway).

It would be cool if MKG broke out and started hiting 3s or something ... but the odds of that happening in year 7 for him are low. On top of that MKG's defense last year - the whole reason he's on the floor to begin with - really wasn't that good. It was easily his worst year ever on that end.

Maybe a new coach and system will help, but the fact is that the team has guys who can play SF in Nic, Miles, Bacon, Marv, & Lamb who are two way guys. Ditto for PF with Marv, Frank, Miles & even Cody. SG has Lamb, Monk, and Bacon. All of those guys have skills that MKG doesn't.

I've also argued this before, but my perception is that the team has played better defense without MKG in the past. I honestly don't think it's him directly, but I think that guys like Kemba and Nic sometimes relax a bit on that end knowing that MKG is there to erase some of their mistakes. When he doesn't play I think that they put more effort in.
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What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#29 » by TheKingofSting » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:35 pm

PG:
Kemba - 34 minutes
Graham - 14 minutes (Traded up for a senior, had him rated first round)
Monk - 0

SG:
Lamb - 28 minutes
Monk - 20 minutes
Bacon - (Greensboro?)

SF:
Batum - 27 minutes
Bridges - 12 minutes
??? - 9 minutes (Spot minutes)

PF:
Marvin - 24 minutes
Bridges - 12 minutes
Frank - 12 minutes


C:
Zeller - 26 minutes
Hernangomez - 15 minutes
Kaminsky - 7 minutes

Totals
Kemba - 34
Lamb - 28
Batum - 27
Zeller - 26
Bridges - 24
Marvin - 24
Monk - 20
Frank - 19
Hernangomez - 15
D. Graham - 14
??? - 9

We use the MLE on a 3&D SG / SF (Probably SG since Mitch said backcourt) for depth and MKG is traded.




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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#30 » by UNCNYC » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:42 pm

All the work MKG seemed to putting into his jump shot seems to have made it worse. I kinda miss his awkward jumper that went in once in a blue.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#31 » by CatgutStitches » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:46 pm

We aren't going to have a day to day 11 or 12 man rotation. In the NBA players don't get really get less than 10 rotation minutes a game, at least consistently. I know you guys want everyone getting minutes, but that will happen naturally due to injuries and rest. It's almost guaranteed we are going to sign SOMEONE, but who knows who. As the roster is currently constructed we actually have worse balance than last year, especially is Batum is strictly at SF. We pretty much HAVE to sign a backup guard (PG or SG, Monk can play the limited backup PG minutes Kemba will be off the court) and get rid of either Marv or MKG, probably MKG.

As currently constructed our starting lineup will be Kemba, Lamb, Batum, Marvin and Cody. Monk will get around 20 min at both guard positions, Frank will get 22-24 min mostly at PF because they want WHG to at least get some minutes (maybe 12-14ish?). I really don't know what to do with Miles and MKG...they both need minutes. Miles probably starts the season getting spot minutes at both forward positions. I think we bring back Treveon and he and the other Graham, as well as Bacon, are not in the standard rotation, neither is Mozgov (if we don't buy him out or something).

We, yet again, have a strangely constructed roster. At this point, like most of you, I'm really hoping to move either Marv or MKG to let Miles get the minutes he needs. I'm actually fine with Monk playing spot backup PG minutes and us signing a 3&D wing to play SG next to him with the bench unit.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#32 » by CatgutStitches » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:49 pm

UNCNYC wrote:All the work MKG seemed to putting into his jump shot seems to have made it worse. I kinda miss his awkward jumper that went in once in a blue.


His midrange jump shot actually goes in relatively consistently. The problem is he's hesitant to shoot it unless he's wide open, and he simply has no deeper range. If he just got a corner 3 to go in around 32% and actually SHOT a couple a game it would completely change his value.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#33 » by Braggins » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:25 pm

316Hornets wrote:I think we have to trade whoever is in front of Lamb. Batum is untradeable so MKG is the guy.

Why not just start Lamb/MKG or Lamb/Miles? Lamb/MKG seemed like our best starting wing combo last season. We also have two players who can play center and shoot 3s, so we could even further mitigate MKG's spacing issues by making adjustments elsewhere. If we trade MKG and don't replace him with an equally good defender we have the potential to be one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

316Hornets wrote:If MKG could shoot 3s, he'd have a place on this team. He's such a drain on the offense that I don't think he'll do well here. All he does is stand mid range and wait to get the ball to shoot his bunny. He's Dwight 2.0.

I don't like this comparison at all. MKG is a good locker room presence and has great intangibles. He always busts his ass on defense, at least when the games are meaningful. His effort admittedly lagged in the second half of last season, but I don't think its a big concern given his past and the circumstances of last season.

I also think MKG was one of the most negatively affected players by Cliffords simplistic rigid system.
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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#34 » by yosemiteben » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:30 pm

Young guns = youngin's

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Re: What to expect from our young guns. 

Post#35 » by tondi123 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:16 pm

The thing that makes our roster strangest is that the bench guys aren't really much worse than the starters, and in some instances are possibly better. Its more sad than strange I guess.

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