Is Paul George the Most Overrated Player in the NBA?

Pablo Escobar · Post #41 » by **Pablo Escobar** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:46 pm

Elite defender that can score as well. Not sure why people are hating on the dude?.. He's nice.

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ISayshowmee · Post #42 » by **ISayshowmee** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:48 pm

Not even close. PG13 has everything to be elite, just wait and see when he becomes a Lakers.

Post #43 » by **FNQ** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:53 pm

I definitely think he's overrated, but most overrated? There are players who are entirely detriments to their team and are called contributors, so no, not most.

What I dont understand is how PG13 generates all this hype for his free agency, and the relatively little spectacle around Gordon Hayward's.. I don't see a big gap between the 2, when both are healthy.

flintsky21 · Post #44 » by **flintsky21** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:54 pm

The Boy wrote:
picko wrote:He is certainly up there. His reputation doesn't seem to match his accomplishments.

I really can't imagine a team winning a championship if George is your first or second best player. He is definitely a second-tier all-star. I think it says a lot about him as a player that he failed to lift OKC higher this season. Some team is going to pay him a fortune for the next five years and realise that you really can't win if you are paying a max salary to someone like George.

Thats a hot take. I would say you're nuts.

Someone like LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk could most definitely reel off multiple titles with George as their second best player.

In any other time probably, but currently against these Warriors, would it be enough?

Side beard · Post #45 » by **Side beard** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:55 pm

If he feels overrated for you now, i dont want to hear what you have to say when he'll be a Laker.

Danny1616 · Post #46 » by **Danny1616** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:56 pm

I don't think he's overrated.

But the problem is he went to the wrong team and was replaced Oladipo which has hurt him.

LastNameEver · Post #47 » by **LastNameEver** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:57 pm

flintsky21 wrote:
The Boy wrote:
picko wrote:He is certainly up there. His reputation doesn't seem to match his accomplishments.

I really can't imagine a team winning a championship if George is your first or second best player. He is definitely a second-tier all-star. I think it says a lot about him as a player that he failed to lift OKC higher this season. Some team is going to pay him a fortune for the next five years and realise that you really can't win if you are paying a max salary to someone like George.

Thats a hot take. I would say you're nuts.

Someone like LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk could most definitely reel off multiple titles with George as their second best player.

In any other time probably, but currently against these Warriors, would it be enough?

Its not a knock on PG that hes not enough.
Its more a F U to the league from Durant.

PKABOOICU · Post #48 » by **PKABOOICU** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:57 pm

As a Laker fan, I agree he's overrated.
But its just funny to me that this topic would come up NOW, as opposed to the last 8 years he was in the league. The Laker effect is soooo real

ISayshowmee · Post #49 » by **ISayshowmee** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:00 pm

FNQ wrote:I definitely think he's overrated, but most overrated? There are players who are entirely detriments to their team and are called contributors, so no, not most.

What I dont understand is how PG13 generates all this hype for his free agency, and the relatively little spectacle around Gordon Hayward's.. I don't see a big gap between the 2, when both are healthy.

With all due respect to Hayward, PG13 is a notch higher talent wise.

Post #50 » by **FNQ** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:04 pm

ISayshowmee wrote:
FNQ wrote:I definitely think he's overrated, but most overrated? There are players who are entirely detriments to their team and are called contributors, so no, not most.

What I dont understand is how PG13 generates all this hype for his free agency, and the relatively little spectacle around Gordon Hayward's.. I don't see a big gap between the 2, when both are healthy.

With all due respect to Hayward, PG13 is a notch higher talent wise.

They flip-flop on RPM all the time. I dont think PG is a notch higher at all.. and the results certainly dont bear it out. Looks to be purely perception.

Pythagoras · Post #51 » by **Pythagoras** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:07 pm

DoItALL9 wrote:
Eskobar13 wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:I think he could be the #1 but the surroundings/whole core would have to be strong. Boston is an example of a team he could when a championship with substituting him for Gordon Hayward.

Switching PG13 in for Andrew Wiggins in Minnesota is another situation where he could arguably be the best player and the team could win a ring.

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The better version of PG13 is playing in Minny, so no he couldn't.
What's your argument for anyone in Minnesota being the better version?

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I'm assuming he means Jimmy Butler. I don't think either is good enough to be the best player on a championship team, and I value PG's skill set more as a complimentary player.

ISayshowmee · Post #52 » by **ISayshowmee** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:09 pm

FNQ wrote:
ISayshowmee wrote:
FNQ wrote:I definitely think he's overrated, but most overrated? There are players who are entirely detriments to their team and are called contributors, so no, not most.

What I dont understand is how PG13 generates all this hype for his free agency, and the relatively little spectacle around Gordon Hayward's.. I don't see a big gap between the 2, when both are healthy.

With all due respect to Hayward, PG13 is a notch higher talent wise.

They flip-flop on RPM all the time. I dont think PG is a notch higher at all.. and the results certainly dont bear it out. Looks to be purely perception.

Start looking at defensive talent between the 2...... PG13 wins by a mile. This is not even close.

Post #53 » by **FNQ** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:09 pm

PKABOOICU wrote:As a Laker fan, I agree he's overrated.
But its just funny to me that this topic would come up NOW, as opposed to the last 8 years he was in the league. The Laker effect is soooo real

Hey now.. I thought he was overrated before it was cool

/hipster

Remember telling Pacer fans they got a solid haul for him and that he wasn't a #1.. the day of the trade was probably an unwise time to break that out though. I mean, I think PG13 is still a definite top 25 player, but my critique of his FA vs Hayward's FA stands.. I wouldnt necessarily prefer one over the other, all things equal. Think I'd rather have Hayward if I needed a #1 scoring option (or a 1B), and would rather have PG13 and his defense if I had a definite #1 type.

Post #54 » by **FNQ** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:11 pm

ISayshowmee wrote:
FNQ wrote:
ISayshowmee wrote:
With all due respect to Hayward, PG13 is a notch higher talent wise.

They flip-flop on RPM all the time. I dont think PG is a notch higher at all.. and the results certainly dont bear it out. Looks to be purely perception.

Start looking at defensive talent between the 2...... PG13 wins by a mile. This is not even close.

You act as if RPM doesnt do this.

Hayward's better on offense to me. And why does Hayward get hate defensively? He's not a top tier defender but he's above average as well.

Stereotypes FTL

macNcheese3 · Post #55 » by **macNcheese3** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:14 pm

I would take Oladipo over George any day. What did he do for OKC in the post season besides 1/2 good games? Overpriced, overrated.

Post #56 » by **FNQ** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:16 pm

Paul George average BPM last 3 healthy seasons: +3.30
Gordon Hayward average BPM last 3 healthy seaons: +3.34

RPM, George, past 3 healthy seasons: +3.47
RPM, Hayward, past 3 healthy seasons: +3.48

Post #57 » by **cupcakesnake** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:17 pm

he's so valuable because he can play well with anybody. He's an elite shooter and excellent defender across multiple positions. He's not an elite shot creator off the dribble or a passer. He's been so consistently excellent in that playoffs until this year. I'm a Raptors fan and watched him straight up END DeRozan while taking the Raps to 7.

I'm not sure how people rate him. I'd say he's a top 5 SF, significantly worse than Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, but i'd give him a slight edge over Gordan Hayward. Probably a top 20 player.

Eskobar13 · Post #58 » by **Eskobar13** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:18 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:
Eskobar13 wrote:
The better version of PG13 is playing in Minny, so no he couldn't.
What's your argument for anyone in Minnesota being the better version?

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I'm assuming he means Jimmy Butler. I don't think either is good enough to be the best player on a championship team, and I value PG's skill set more as a complimentary player.

Yes I mean Jimmy of course.

PG is only a better 3 point shooter, with Butler being better at everything else (PG has better size I guess). More importantly, Butler seems to know what he is, unlike PG13. He is clearly a tier above if you look at the past 2 or 3 years between the two.

FNQ wrote:
PKABOOICU wrote:As a Laker fan, I agree he's overrated.
But its just funny to me that this topic would come up NOW, as opposed to the last 8 years he was in the league. The Laker effect is soooo real

Hey now.. I thought he was overrated before it was cool

/hipster

Remember telling Pacer fans they got a solid haul for him and that he wasn't a #1.. the day of the trade was probably an unwise time to break that out though. I mean, I think PG13 is still a definite top 25 player, but my critique of his FA vs Hayward's FA stands.. I wouldnt necessarily prefer one over the other, all things equal. Think I'd rather have Hayward if I needed a #1 scoring option (or a 1B), and would rather have PG13 and his defense if I had a definite #1 type.

I know you said it as a joke, but I concur with everything in your opinion - and I think he was more overrated before. Whether from the scrutiny gotten with OKCs expectations or just because people turned on him because of the Pacers situation, I feel like the opinion of him as gotten worse, while George himself has been roughly the same player.

As for Hayward vs PG, I'd say Gordon had a higher peak actually, although PG has the Raptors series and Heat series to his name (albeit that's small sample size). Take the 2 year span between 15-17 and I'd flip a coin between the two.

ISayshowmee · Post #59 » by **ISayshowmee** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:21 pm

FNQ wrote:
ISayshowmee wrote:
FNQ wrote:
They flip-flop on RPM all the time. I dont think PG is a notch higher at all.. and the results certainly dont bear it out. Looks to be purely perception.

Start looking at defensive talent between the 2...... PG13 wins by a mile. This is not even close.

You act as if RPM doesnt do this.

Hayward's better on offense to me. And why does Hayward get hate defensively? He's not a top tier defender but he's above average as well.

Stereotypes FTL

Hate defensively ? Who is hating the guy, but you can't put Gordon on Durant or Lebron.

Gordon is not better than PG13 on offense. At 6'10", PG13 has more complete offensive game, he can play you down low, take you beyond the perimeter. OKC's Donovan did not use PG13 the way the Pacers allowed him to do. Perhaps this was due to Melo already with OKC so no need to let PG13 operate closer to the basket.

Gordon is a great shooter, but he ain't beating lots of guys one-on-one.

Post #60 » by **FNQ** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:25 pm

ISayshowmee wrote:
Hate defensively ? Who is hating the guy, but you can't put Gordon on Durant or Lebron.

Gordon is not better than PG13 on offense. At 6'10", PG13 has more complete offensive game, he can play you down low, take you beyond the perimeter. OKC's Donovan did not use PG13 the way the Pacers allowed him to do. Perhaps this was due to Melo already with OKC so no need to let PG13 operate closer to the basket.

Gordon is a great shooter, but he ain't beating lots of guys one-on-one.

I love that stats exist because it really helps fight stereotypes.

Paul George last year: 55% assisted, the year before? 51% assisted
Gordon Hayward his last healthy year: 52% assisted, the year before? 45% assisted

PG, for all his "can take you down low" narrative, shoots WAY more 3s than Hayward and is far less efficient inside the arc than Hayward. Very little changed in his offensive game going from IND to OKC.

All of these things.. they exist in your mind due to your stereotypes. The numbers do not lie - Hayward's been as effective as George, plays inside the arc as much as George, and has been more offensively efficient than George.