Is Paul George the Most Overrated Player in the NBA?

[DoItALL9]

What's your argument for anyone in Minnesota being the better version?

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I'm assuming he means Jimmy Butler. I don't think either is good enough to be the best player on a championship team, and I value PG's skill set more as a complimentary player.

Yes I mean Jimmy of course.

PG is only a better 3 point shooter, with Butler being better at everything else (PG has better size I guess). More importantly, Butler seems to know what he is, unlike PG13. He is clearly a tier above if you look at the past 2 or 3 years between the two.

As a Laker fan, I agree he's overrated.
But its just funny to me that this topic would come up NOW, as opposed to the last 8 years he was in the league. The Laker effect is soooo real

Hey now.. I thought he was overrated before it was cool

/hipster

Remember telling Pacer fans they got a solid haul for him and that he wasn't a #1.. the day of the trade was probably an unwise time to break that out though. I mean, I think PG13 is still a definite top 25 player, but my critique of his FA vs Hayward's FA stands.. I wouldnt necessarily prefer one over the other, all things equal. Think I'd rather have Hayward if I needed a #1 scoring option (or a 1B), and would rather have PG13 and his defense if I had a definite #1 type.

I know you said it as a joke, but I concur with everything in your opinion - and I think he was more overrated before. Whether from the scrutiny gotten with OKCs expectations or just because people turned on him because of the Pacers situation, I feel like the opinion of him as gotten worse, while George himself has been roughly the same player.

As for Hayward vs PG, I'd say Gordon had a higher peak actually, although PG has the Raptors series and Heat series to his name (albeit that's small sample size). Take the 2 year span between 15-17 and I'd flip a coin between the two.

The differences are basically negligible but you seem to have put a stake in the ground.

PG13 last season had the better eFG%, rebounding numbers (while playing with RW), and blocking numbers so it's clearly not everything.

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[ISayshowmee]

Hate defensively ? Who is hating the guy, but you can't put Gordon on Durant or Lebron.

Gordon is not better than PG13 on offense. At 6'10", PG13 has more complete offensive game, he can play you down low, take you beyond the perimeter. OKC's Donovan did not use PG13 the way the Pacers allowed him to do. Perhaps this was due to Melo already with OKC so no need to let PG13 operate closer to the basket.

Gordon is a great shooter, but he ain't beating lots of guys one-on-one.

I love that stats exist because it really helps fight stereotypes.

Paul George last year: 55% assisted, the year before? 51% assisted
Gordon Hayward his last healthy year: 52% assisted, the year before? 45% assisted

PG, for all his "can take you down low" narrative, shoots WAY more 3s than Hayward and is far less efficient inside the arc than Hayward. Very little changed in his offensive game going from IND to OKC.

All of these things.. they exist in your mind due to your stereotypes. The numbers do not lie - Hayward's been as effective as George, plays inside the arc as much as George, and has been more offensively efficient than George.

Stats -> Fans look at players just like machines, throwing away effects of coaching....teammates. Heck if we just go by stats, the likes of Westbrook and Harden must be the greatest players.

PG13 can carry a team, while Gordon will be a great addition to this team.

[DoItALL9]

Hate defensively ? Who is hating the guy, but you can't put Gordon on Durant or Lebron.

Gordon is not better than PG13 on offense. At 6'10", PG13 has more complete offensive game, he can play you down low, take you beyond the perimeter. OKC's Donovan did not use PG13 the way the Pacers allowed him to do. Perhaps this was due to Melo already with OKC so no need to let PG13 operate closer to the basket.

Gordon is a great shooter, but he ain't beating lots of guys one-on-one.

I love that stats exist because it really helps fight stereotypes.

Paul George last year: 55% assisted, the year before? 51% assisted
Gordon Hayward his last healthy year: 52% assisted, the year before? 45% assisted

PG, for all his "can take you down low" narrative, shoots WAY more 3s than Hayward and is far less efficient inside the arc than Hayward. Very little changed in his offensive game going from IND to OKC.

All of these things.. they exist in your mind due to your stereotypes. The numbers do not lie - Hayward's been as effective as George, plays inside the arc as much as George, and has been more offensively efficient than George.

Thoughts on comparing the two defensively?

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[FNQ]

Stats -> Fans look at players just like machines, throwing away effects of coaching....teammates. Heck if we just go by stats, the likes of Westbrook and Harden must be the greatest players.

PG13 can carry a team, while Gordon will be a great addition to this team.

Ah of course. Because if I use stats to counter the arguments that were made - which, dude, they were wrong - we now have to go back to "watch the games".

PG13 can carry a team based on what? Because Hayward was the #1 option on the Jazz going to the WC Semis in 2017, where they ran into the W's. PG made the ECF 4-5 years ago in a historically weak Eastern Conference..

Notice how we're differing in arguing here. You are throwing random stuff out and hoping the numbers bare them out, but almost none of it has so far. Look at the numbers - are you SURE PG13 is clearly better than Hayward?

[FNQ]

Hate defensively ? Who is hating the guy, but you can't put Gordon on Durant or Lebron.

Gordon is not better than PG13 on offense. At 6'10", PG13 has more complete offensive game, he can play you down low, take you beyond the perimeter. OKC's Donovan did not use PG13 the way the Pacers allowed him to do. Perhaps this was due to Melo already with OKC so no need to let PG13 operate closer to the basket.

Gordon is a great shooter, but he ain't beating lots of guys one-on-one.

I love that stats exist because it really helps fight stereotypes.

Paul George last year: 55% assisted, the year before? 51% assisted
Gordon Hayward his last healthy year: 52% assisted, the year before? 45% assisted

PG, for all his "can take you down low" narrative, shoots WAY more 3s than Hayward and is far less efficient inside the arc than Hayward. Very little changed in his offensive game going from IND to OKC.

All of these things.. they exist in your mind due to your stereotypes. The numbers do not lie - Hayward's been as effective as George, plays inside the arc as much as George, and has been more offensively efficient than George.

Thoughts on comparing the two defensively?

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Paul George is better. The numbers bare that out. They also bare out that he's inconsistent and not much more of an impact defender than Hayward, and pretty much to the same degree that Hayward is (not much) more effective on offense.

[InsideInfo]

I don't think overrated is the right way to put it.

I think he has been talked about so much over the past few seasons that he gets conflated into a tier of athletes that he isn't quite in.

He is an all star, but its not like if you throw him on the lakers without LeBron, that suddenly the lakers are back. They likely wouldn't even be a top 3-4 team in the west.

[ISayshowmee]

Stats -> Fans look at players just like machines, throwing away effects of coaching....teammates. Heck if we just go by stats, the likes of Westbrook and Harden must be the greatest players.

PG13 can carry a team, while Gordon will be a great addition to this team.

Ah of course. Because if I use stats to counter the arguments that were made - which, dude, they were wrong - we now have to go back to "watch the games".

PG13 can carry a team based on what? Because Hayward was the #1 option on the Jazz going to the WC Semis in 2017, where they ran into the W's. PG made the ECF 4-5 years ago in a historically weak Eastern Conference..

Notice how we're differing in arguing here. You are throwing random stuff out and hoping the numbers bare them out, but almost none of it has so far. Look at the numbers - are you SURE PG13 is clearly better than Hayward?

Based on what ? How about you start watching his games before he got traded to OKC ?

Stats ---- ESPN came out with 'PER' to make a case for Lebron as the greatest player known to man. We can play around with numbers to support narratives.....but I based my opinions on watching games.....

[RightToCensor]

Who is calling Paul George a superstar? Seriously, there's more people calling him overrated than anything and the main reason is because he's looked upon as a coveted free agent. Even after breaking his leg he's still a perennial All-Star and All-NBA caliber player. Just because he gets press doesn't mean he's overrated. Stop crying and making the same dumb argument.

[Eskobar13]

I'm assuming he means Jimmy Butler. I don't think either is good enough to be the best player on a championship team, and I value PG's skill set more as a complimentary player.

Yes I mean Jimmy of course.

PG is only a better 3 point shooter, with Butler being better at everything else (PG has better size I guess). More importantly, Butler seems to know what he is, unlike PG13. He is clearly a tier above if you look at the past 2 or 3 years between the two.

Hey now.. I thought he was overrated before it was cool

/hipster

Remember telling Pacer fans they got a solid haul for him and that he wasn't a #1.. the day of the trade was probably an unwise time to break that out though. I mean, I think PG13 is still a definite top 25 player, but my critique of his FA vs Hayward's FA stands.. I wouldnt necessarily prefer one over the other, all things equal. Think I'd rather have Hayward if I needed a #1 scoring option (or a 1B), and would rather have PG13 and his defense if I had a definite #1 type.

I know you said it as a joke, but I concur with everything in your opinion - and I think he was more overrated before. Whether from the scrutiny gotten with OKCs expectations or just because people turned on him because of the Pacers situation, I feel like the opinion of him as gotten worse, while George himself has been roughly the same player.

As for Hayward vs PG, I'd say Gordon had a higher peak actually, although PG has the Raptors series and Heat series to his name (albeit that's small sample size). Take the 2 year span between 15-17 and I'd flip a coin between the two.

The differences are basically negligible but you seem to have put a stake in the ground.

PG13 last season had the better eFG%, rebounding numbers (while playing with RW), and blocking numbers so it's clearly not everything.

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Better eFG% stems from the 3PT shooting. Rebounding is marginal and a lot of it is on defense where George probably matches up more with interior players, although I might be unfair here. As for blocking numbers, it's basically the same and get Andre Roberson on Jimmy's team and I'm sure his blocking numbers also get higher.

[FNQ]

Stats -> Fans look at players just like machines, throwing away effects of coaching....teammates. Heck if we just go by stats, the likes of Westbrook and Harden must be the greatest players.

PG13 can carry a team, while Gordon will be a great addition to this team.

Ah of course. Because if I use stats to counter the arguments that were made - which, dude, they were wrong - we now have to go back to "watch the games".

PG13 can carry a team based on what? Because Hayward was the #1 option on the Jazz going to the WC Semis in 2017, where they ran into the W's. PG made the ECF 4-5 years ago in a historically weak Eastern Conference..

Notice how we're differing in arguing here. You are throwing random stuff out and hoping the numbers bare them out, but almost none of it has so far. Look at the numbers - are you SURE PG13 is clearly better than Hayward?

Based on what ? How about you start watching his games before he got traded to OKC ?

Full circle.

Also as a parting shot - George's #s didnt change much when he became a 2nd banana either. The only thing that spiked was his 3PTA, which was 45% of his shots.

[FNQ]

Stats -> Fans look at players just like machines, throwing away effects of coaching....teammates. Heck if we just go by stats, the likes of Westbrook and Harden must be the greatest players.

PG13 can carry a team, while Gordon will be a great addition to this team.

Ah of course. Because if I use stats to counter the arguments that were made - which, dude, they were wrong - we now have to go back to "watch the games".

PG13 can carry a team based on what? Because Hayward was the #1 option on the Jazz going to the WC Semis in 2017, where they ran into the W's. PG made the ECF 4-5 years ago in a historically weak Eastern Conference..

Notice how we're differing in arguing here. You are throwing random stuff out and hoping the numbers bare them out, but almost none of it has so far. Look at the numbers - are you SURE PG13 is clearly better than Hayward?

Based on what ? How about you start watching his games before he got traded to OKC ?

Stats ---- ESPN came out with 'PER' to make a case for Lebron as the greatest player known to man. We can play around with numbers to support narratives.....but I based my opinions on watching games.....

John Hollinger came out with PER, and it does what its supposed to - measure player efficiency when the player's usage and role is the same.

Personally I find numbers to be a lot more honest than "I watch the games, trust me" as you say thing after thing that is patently untrue.

"PG can take you down low" - false, shoots less in the key and inside the arc than Hayward.
"OKC did not use PG the way IND did" - false, nearly identical in terms of usage with a spike in 3pt shooting (that drastically helps efficiency)
"Gordon isnt beating guys one on one" - yet Gordon has less assisted shots than PG13 every year since he became a top option
"PG13 can carry a team" - he carried them into round 1, and that was about it. Hayward went to the WCF semis last year.

So why on earth should I believe you when you say you watch the games and I should trust your opinions?

[DoItALL9]

Yes I mean Jimmy of course.

PG is only a better 3 point shooter, with Butler being better at everything else (PG has better size I guess). More importantly, Butler seems to know what he is, unlike PG13. He is clearly a tier above if you look at the past 2 or 3 years between the two.



I know you said it as a joke, but I concur with everything in your opinion - and I think he was more overrated before. Whether from the scrutiny gotten with OKCs expectations or just because people turned on him because of the Pacers situation, I feel like the opinion of him as gotten worse, while George himself has been roughly the same player.

As for Hayward vs PG, I'd say Gordon had a higher peak actually, although PG has the Raptors series and Heat series to his name (albeit that's small sample size). Take the 2 year span between 15-17 and I'd flip a coin between the two.

The differences are basically negligible but you seem to have put a stake in the ground.

PG13 last season had the better eFG%, rebounding numbers (while playing with RW), and blocking numbers so it's clearly not everything.

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Better eFG% stems from the 3PT shooting. Rebounding is marginal and a lot of it is on defense where George probably matches up more with interior players, although I might be unfair here. As for blocking numbers, it's basically the same and get Andre Roberson on Jimmy's team and I'm sure his blocking numbers also get higher.

Your points are fair. Going back to your first mention that he's only significantly better at 3pt shooting that can be a major distance depending on surroundings. It determines your versatility as well as your gravity as a player. In today's game it almost can't be overstated.
Take away 3pt % as a factor and CP3 and RW would be rated ahead of Curry.

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[jonjames]

Hes up there with al horford. No team can win a title with pg as their best player or even 2nd best player for that matter.

[woosah]

I don't think overrated is the right way to put it.

I think he has been talked about so much over the past few seasons that he gets conflated into a tier of athletes that he isn't quite in.

He is an all star, but its not like if you throw him on the lakers without LeBron, that suddenly the lakers are back. They likely wouldn't even be a top 3-4 team in the west.

I can agree with this. I think PG is sort of living off of the strength of what he was before the major injury. He's back and doing well, but didn't really increase that stock. He's not declining or anything, just not quite the same spark. He wants to be in that top tier but really hasn't shown he is that level. Thing is, even with all the conversation about him, the media isn't putting him on that level either so they aren't overrating him, just giving him a lot of attention because he wants to play for one of their preferred markets.

[enigmatics]

Been a long time since PG could actually elevate a team. Was sad to see him break his leg the way he did - but he's not the same player and not worthy of all this hoopla about being paired with LBJ.

[jacoby1us]

This thread is overrated.
First someone says PG13 is overrated and then some other special person comes along and says Leonard is as well? Sounds personal to me. Both of these All-Stars have shown that they belong in the big lights leading a team. So be it if they do not want to play on your favorite team.

[aznsk91]

it depends how he rated. I personally rate him as a top 15-20ish player in the league, not that far off from the op. he is a legit all-star, but he isn't a superstar. I personally rate him above the guys you mentioned though in Kevin love, lamarcus, and demar. even, as Paul George's production decreases, he is always going to be valuable because his skill set is highly coveted. he is a versatile wing with great length that can guard multiple positions at a high level. he is versatile offensively being able to score from the three all the way down to the paint, play-make, and most importantly he can score off-the ball via different screens (pick n roll, pin downs, down screens, and etc). His skill-set makes him an ideal #2 or #3 option, because he can seamlessly fit onto any team. even guys like cousins or oladipo, whom you can argue are better then George come with question marks on how they would fit in with other all-stars (basketball iq, ball dominance, ability to play off-ball, defense, and unselfishness)

[Klayforspicy]

George has the skillset to do everything well.
As a talent hes up there with Pippen.

[F N 11]

Sorry that title is still with Carmelo Anthony.

[a8bil]

PG13 is Klay with a slightly worse shot and slightly better handles. There was a time when some people rated him way above Klay but I think they are now viewed more or less on the same level...if that is how he is rated, I think it is fair.