Trade and free agency speculation

[Revived]

I would prefer Bradley over Smart.

No thanks.

[TOO]

Hart actually fits very well with Booker in the backcourt as well.

Sure, if you hate point guards.

[SuperSunsFan]

Why is building a winning team so darn difficult? the Colangelos made it seems so easy back in the good old days.

[lilfishi22]

Also as comparisons, this was the 3PT% and eFG% of Boston's 8 man rotation last season
Tatum - .434/.538
Horford - .429/.553
Brown - .395/.540
Baynes - .143/.474
Kyrie - .408/.568
Mook - .368/.499
Rozier - .381/.491
Smart - .301/.440

They could afford to have one guy shoot 30% from the 3 with an overall .440eFG% because the rest of their rotations were at the very least capable 3PT shooters

.
.
.
Edit: to clarify my :

Tatum - 34.3 3FG% on 4 3FGA*
Horford - 35.5 3FG% on 3.6 3FGA
Brown - 34.1 3FG% on 1.7 3FGA
Baynes - 0 3FGA
Kyrie - 40.1 3FG% on 6.1 3FGA
Mook - 33.1 3FG% on 4.5 3FGA
Rozier - 31.8 3FG% on 2.4 3FGA
Smart - 28.3 3FG% on 4.2 3FGA

Not that impressive, is it? The asterisk represents a college basketball stat; the rest are these players' percentages and attempts from the prior year. How did all of these players (save Kyrie and Smart) suddenly improve so dramatically?

You can't tell me Brown is a better shooter than Booker. If that's your opinion, you rely too heavily on stats. We all complain about our coaching and culture and mix of players, and then we assume these factors that negatively impact our team's production somehow wouldn't have a depressing affect on our players' stats.

Bender shot better from 3 last year than Horford had during any year of his career, save for last season. Bridges shot much better in college than did Tatum. Why can't Jackson or Warren improve, with a system that caters to, and personnel that compliments, their abilities? If you tell TJ to focus on the corner 3, I bet you he can get to 35% on moderate volume. I think Jackson has high-thirties in him - and maybe better. Brandon's down to a career 35.7 3FG%, after his disastrous first two seasons in Phoenix - better than any of the Celtics' rotation players other than Kyrie if you're looking at the previous year's stats.

I submit to you that if you put our current cast in a good system with Ayton in the middle, you'll see our players' percentages more closely approach their full potential. Certainly, Smart doesn't prevent other players from shooting the ball well. I submit to you that our roster as currently constructed - and with an additional point guard - will shoot the ball well and generate quality offense. Marcus Smart's deficiency in this regard I can't believe is so terrible as to negate that.

But what this squad does not have is great defenders. Dragan's good, but not great, and is limited in what he can do. Ayton obviously is no defensive savant. Booker's not a good defender and can only hope to get closer to average, IMO. TJ's underrated, but not great. Jackson should be solid but I don't think will ever be a stopper. And Knight - well, I'm just hoping for "not bad." Bridges is the only blue-chip defender in that core group.

I think Marcus Smart elevates his teammates, and that he would help plug the HUGE hole on the defensive end in our Booker-Knight-[???]-JJ-Daniels-[Okobo] backcourt rotation. If you don't see that the hole in the backcourt is not shooting, but defense, I don't know what to tell you. We have the talent on offense and a coach that can get us to good or great on that end. On defense? That's where we need better players. Ain't nobody coaching well enough to turn Knight/Booker into a solid defensive backcourt.

The ONLY reasons I'm dubious about the prospect of adding Smart is how impressed I was by Shaq's performance at the end of last season, and how willing Smart and Knight are to taking a bench role. If not for those factors, Marcus would be clear and away my Plan A for the offseason. I go back and forth on whether he's Plan or Plan B, but in any case, he's foremost in my mind when I think of this year's free agents.

Booker is a better shooter than Brown, without a doubt. Brown was assisted on almost 97% of 3PTA's vs Booker's 61% which is around Curry's level. Despite the massive difference in assisted shots, Booker shot significantly more overall 3PTA's than Brown yet shot only a marginally lower 3PT%.

I don't know what the exact catalyst for Boston's increase in shooting %'s were but it certainly was in spite of whatever Smart was doing. He definitely was *not* the reason for it because he was effectively the same player he was the season before. Perhaps it's just internal improvement because most of their guys were already capable shooters but their efficiency just wasn't where it needed to be.

JJ could and I expect he will improve his shooting efficiency. I have no idea where you get this optimism for TJ's 3PT% come from. I guarantee you he's been practicing that 3PT shot in practice and in the offseason for years now. There's no way we would've told him to not focus on it because it's probably the weakest part of his game. Outside of that one season where he shot a very fluky .400, he's averaged .244 from the 3 for his career. To go from .222 to .350 would be a monumental jump.

I just don't understand how you can argue that adding a guy who's a negative shooter (bad % on high attempts) playing a major role (starting) would make us a better shooting team. Even Payton before he was traded to us was shooting .373 from the 3 and that suddenly dropped to .200. Why do you think a bad shooter on a good team with good ball movement would be able to elevate others, let alone his own game by joining a worse team with lesser shooters.

As AtheJ mentioned, our biggest needs is actually two things, shooting and defense. We need 3&D not 3 or D. We're dead last in eFG% last season while we were 24th in opponent eFG%. So you can say we need shooting more than we need defense but the fact is, we're terrible at both but adding Smart to play a role in getting our defense better while being wholly negative from a shooting standpoint is not the way to go and a complete waste of cap space. For how much he's asking, he's not solving enough of our problems and potentially would add to it.

[lilfishi22]

If Lebron truly doesn't want to play with Lonzo, I wonder if we jump in here. Suns supposedly liked him at the draft, and while he was a horrendous shooter last year and needs to reinvent his shot imo, he was much better on defense than expected and was a good rebounder and passer.

Lonzos shooting is suspect and his form is as bad as anyone's in the NBA. What makes him a significantly better prospect than Smart?

He shoots too much for his 3PT% but he shot .412 in college on roughly the same 5 attempts a game. He has a history of being able to make 3's and even after a rookie seasons shooting in the low .300, he's still a better shooter than Smart in his past 3 seasons.

And for the record, Smart was a .295 3PT shooting in college on close to 300 attempts. That to me says that his rookie season average (and career high) .335% was more of a fluke than anything else.

[TOO]

Why is building a winning team so darn difficult? the Colangelos made it seems so easy back in the good old days.

Gotta draft well. Period. We have not.

[Christine-In-AZ]

If I had to guess, I say the Suns will be one of the teams with a chance to get Kemba Walker. I know it’s been talked about here. I think he ends up in Phoenix. I can’t be mad at this lineup.

Walker
Booker
Bridges
Jackson
Ayton



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Size is a pretty big turnoff for me with Kemba. His size as far as limiting how good his defense can ever be (especially next to Booker) and the size of that contract needed to keep him next summer. Plus the size of what PHX has to give up in assets to get him now ...of course.

If sticking with my long held notion that Lebron stays in Cleveland one more year (he chooses best narrative for his legacy).

Kemba joins him somehow.

[SuperSunsFan]

Why is building a winning team so darn difficult? the Colangelos made it seems so easy back in the good old days.

Gotta draft well. Period. We have not.

no, coaching staff is the most underrated aspect of the game. We used to be able to get good results even at times when we didn't have good players, we were winning 45+ games even when our leading scorer was Rex Chapman. I feel that we used to have an Obi Wan Kenobi in Cotton to guide us through all the difficult times, a luxury we no longer have.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Also as comparisons, this was the 3PT% and eFG% of Boston's 8 man rotation last season
Tatum - .434/.538
Horford - .429/.553
Brown - .395/.540
Baynes - .143/.474
Kyrie - .408/.568
Mook - .368/.499
Rozier - .381/.491
Smart - .301/.440

They could afford to have one guy shoot 30% from the 3 with an overall .440eFG% because the rest of their rotations were at the very least capable 3PT shooters

.
.
.
Edit: to clarify my :

Tatum - 34.3 3FG% on 4 3FGA*
Horford - 35.5 3FG% on 3.6 3FGA
Brown - 34.1 3FG% on 1.7 3FGA
Baynes - 0 3FGA
Kyrie - 40.1 3FG% on 6.1 3FGA
Mook - 33.1 3FG% on 4.5 3FGA
Rozier - 31.8 3FG% on 2.4 3FGA
Smart - 28.3 3FG% on 4.2 3FGA

Not that impressive, is it? The asterisk represents a college basketball stat; the rest are these players' percentages and attempts from the prior year. How did all of these players (save Kyrie and Smart) suddenly improve so dramatically?

You can't tell me Brown is a better shooter than Booker. If that's your opinion, you rely too heavily on stats. We all complain about our coaching and culture and mix of players, and then we assume these factors that negatively impact our team's production somehow wouldn't have a depressing affect on our players' stats.

Bender shot better from 3 last year than Horford had during any year of his career, save for last season. Bridges shot much better in college than did Tatum. Why can't Jackson or Warren improve, with a system that caters to, and personnel that compliments, their abilities? If you tell TJ to focus on the corner 3, I bet you he can get to 35% on moderate volume. I think Jackson has high-thirties in him - and maybe better. Brandon's down to a career 35.7 3FG%, after his disastrous first two seasons in Phoenix - better than any of the Celtics' rotation players other than Kyrie if you're looking at the previous year's stats.

I submit to you that if you put our current cast in a good system with Ayton in the middle, you'll see our players' percentages more closely approach their full potential. Certainly, Smart doesn't prevent other players from shooting the ball well. I submit to you that our roster as currently constructed - and with an additional point guard - will shoot the ball well and generate quality offense. Marcus Smart's deficiency in this regard I can't believe is so terrible as to negate that.

But what this squad does not have is great defenders. Dragan's good, but not great, and is limited in what he can do. Ayton obviously is no defensive savant. Booker's not a good defender and can only hope to get closer to average, IMO. TJ's underrated, but not great. Jackson should be solid but I don't think will ever be a stopper. And Knight - well, I'm just hoping for "not bad." Bridges is the only blue-chip defender in that core group.

I think Marcus Smart elevates his teammates, and that he would help plug the HUGE hole on the defensive end in our Booker-Knight-[???]-JJ-Daniels-[Okobo] backcourt rotation. If you don't see that the hole in the backcourt is not shooting, but defense, I don't know what to tell you. We have the talent on offense and a coach that can get us to good or great on that end. On defense? That's where we need better players. Ain't nobody coaching well enough to turn Knight/Booker into a solid defensive backcourt.

The ONLY reasons I'm dubious about the prospect of adding Smart is how impressed I was by Shaq's performance at the end of last season, and how willing Smart and Knight are to taking a bench role. If not for those factors, Marcus would be clear and away my Plan A for the offseason. I go back and forth on whether he's Plan or Plan B, but in any case, he's foremost in my mind when I think of this year's free agents.

Booker is a better shooter than Brown, without a doubt. Brown was assisted on almost 97% of 3PTA's vs Booker's 61% which is around Curry's level. Despite the massive difference in assisted shots, Booker shot significantly more overall 3PTA's than Brown yet shot only a marginally lower 3PT%.

I don't know what the exact catalyst for Boston's increase in shooting %'s were but it certainly was in spite of whatever Smart was doing. He definitely was *not* the reason for it because he was effectively the same player he was the season before. Perhaps it's just internal improvement because most of their guys were already capable shooters but their efficiency just wasn't where it needed to be.

JJ could and I expect he will improve his shooting efficiency. I have no idea where you get this optimism for TJ's 3PT% come from. I guarantee you he's been practicing that 3PT shot in practice and in the offseason for years now. There's no way we would've told him to not focus on it because it's probably the weakest part of his game. Outside of that one season where he shot a very fluky .400, he's averaged .244 from the 3 for his career. To go from .222 to .350 would be a monumental jump.

I just don't understand how you can argue that adding a guy who's a negative shooter (bad % on high attempts) playing a major role (starting) would make us a better shooting team. Even Payton before he was traded to us was shooting .373 from the 3 and that suddenly dropped to .200. Why do you think a bad shooter on a good team with good ball movement would be able to elevate others, let alone his own game by joining a worse team with lesser shooters.

As AtheJ mentioned, our biggest needs is actually two things, shooting and defense. We need 3&D not 3 or D. We're dead last in eFG% last season while we were 24th in opponent eFG%. So you can say we need shooting more than we need defense but the fact is, we're terrible at both but adding Smart to play a role in getting our defense better while being wholly negative from a shooting standpoint is not the way to go and a complete waste of cap space. For how much he's asking, he's not solving enough of our problems and potentially would add to it.

I don't think Smart will make us a better shooting team. I think coaching, internal development and growth, Ayton's gravity and Bridges will. I don't think Smart will prevent it is what I'm saying.

TJ shot 40% from 3 his second season, on low volume. But you could see the form differed from what he shot inside the line. I think he regressed from deep because he was focusing on being true to his own game - and that worked, to the detriment of his 3FG%. I think he'll get past this, and he'll get solid on corner threes, that's all.

[ATTL]

I prefer a stopgap at point for a year while we figure out what we have in Okobo. If we're confident in him as a rookie then I'm fine with Knight/Okobo/shaq next year.
I'd like to add beverly and Ersan to the team, guys that can contribute and other teams hate playing against.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[Revived]

Hart actually fits very well with Booker in the backcourt as well.

Sure, if you hate point guards.

He shot 40% from three on 3 attempts a game. Has good size and great personality to fit in with our young core. Plus there's already great chemistry between him and our highly touted rookie Mikal Bridges.

Would be huge to get him. We don't need a traditional PG, someone like him would be perfect.

[DirtyDez]

Close to saying **** it and throwing in TJ at the 4. Anyone have his numbers on long-2’s?

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Could be the stretch 4 that McD alluded to about targeting. Esp since he mentioned one that plays defense too.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Why is building a winning team so darn difficult? the Colangelos made it seems so easy back in the good old days.

Gotta draft well. Period. We have not.

I don't know, I've watched the entire Suns movie, and it doesn't seem like the Colangelos were significantly better at drafting than the current regime. Hits and misses are pretty much S.O.P league wide.

My guess is there used to be a lot more suspect management across the league...a lot more (poor) shooting from the hip...and certainly far less analytics. Jerry (and to a lesser degree) Bryan were pretty good at making these other GMs pay.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Paying him into his mid 30's doesn't excite me.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Read on Twitter

Paying him into his mid 30's doesn't excite me.

Wouldn't he immediately be the fourth best SF on the roster?

[AtheJ415]

If Lebron truly doesn't want to play with Lonzo, I wonder if we jump in here. Suns supposedly liked him at the draft, and while he was a horrendous shooter last year and needs to reinvent his shot imo, he was much better on defense than expected and was a good rebounder and passer.

Lonzos shooting is suspect and his form is as bad as anyone's in the NBA. What makes him a significantly better prospect than Smart?

He's still young enough to fix it, and he isn't useless on offense. He is a great passer. Marcus sucks across the entire offensive board.

[AtheJ415]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Could be the stretch 4 that McD alluded to about targeting. Esp since he mentioned one that plays defense too.

I would be down to pay him a big 1 year deal, but my suspicion is that he will not want to play the 4, and will get offers from teams that are ready to win now more than us for more years and at a close enough annual salary for him to go elsewhere.

[Revived]

Way too much time spent discussing Smart lol.