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Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

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What's he worth?

13 million/yr
36
27%
14 million/yr
19
15%
15 million/yr
20
15%
16 million/yr
27
21%
17 million/yr
15
11%
18+ million/yr
14
11%
 
Total votes: 131

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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#701 » by TheJordanRule » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:02 pm

Pnjguy wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:
Trust me CBS7, paying a trash player like Zach 19 mil per year for a 2 + 1 contract would hurt us. That effectively wipes out our free agency next season, an off season when the market will be deeper than its been in recent years. That extra 5-8 million would at worst go towards a quality rotation piece but also may be the difference between landing a full boat FA and signing a 7th/8th man.


This is demonstrably false.


Betta Bulleavit wrote:
Pnjguy wrote:2019-20 Bulls Cap

Asik - 4(guaranteed portion when he is released
Felicio - 8.1
Dunn - 5.3
Lauri - 5.3
Denzel - 3.3
Carter - 4.3
Hutch - 1.9
2018 1st - 4

Total = 36.2

Cap = 107

Cap space = Roughly 71

Well, we would still have to account for the roster spot holds (about 5M) and Dunn's cap hold (about 11M) So all told, we'd probably looking at more like 61M.

If we signed Lavine to say, 4 yrs at 17M per, then we'd have around 43 give or take. Still plenty for a max free agent.


Much respect to both of you. You're right. I was wrong. There would be max free agent money left over.

While I still don't want to spend 17 mil per year on Zach, I'm warming up to the idea of giving him 15 per year-- especially if we front load the contract. One of the posters in this thread has suggested that we spend $25 mil this year on Zach, and then 10 mil per year for the two following years on him. That would get us to a place where Zach gets a 3 year, 45 million dollar contract and we'd still have him on a desirable contract for two of those three years. I'm not sure a contract like that can even be created under the NBA's current rules, but if it is, we'd have $50 mil to spend on potentially 2 close to max free agents to add to our young core of Lauri, Kris, Bobby, Carter and Zach. That would be incredible.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#702 » by WindyCityBorn » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:10 pm

holv03 wrote:I am one of the only ones not worry about Lavine. I believe that he will sign with the Bulls for somewhere around 16m-18m a year. I expect him to have a breakout season also. Lavine keeps showing that he wants to be a Chicago Bull for the future. I don't see him going anywhere.


Good. He is gonna ball out next season.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#703 » by gmoney2 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:51 pm

14M-16M per would be a good signing for Zach especially if we could front load as has been suggested. The conditions do seem right as the teams with cap space either have too much already invested in the SG position or already have young prospects at SG: Sac has Shumpert and Hield; Pho has Booker, Brooklyn has Allen Crabbe at 18.5 mil signed until 2020; Atl has Bazmore at 16.9 mil signed until 2020; Indy has Oladipo signed until 2021; Orl has Founier at $17 mil signed until 2021; Philly wants to lure Lebron or PG13, but if they strike out, I would think they would focus on signing Reddick to a reasonable 8-10 mil per year; Dal seems focused on dealing for Deandre; and the Lakers are in a good position to sign Lebron or PG13.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#704 » by NDave79 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:54 pm

I hope we settle on a Niko (prove yourself) type deal, even if it's a big time over pay.

I'd be fine with the max for one season and then a team option.

I just really like the flexibility it provides.

Sure, if he explodes, we might regret not locking him up cheaper, but, I'd love to have the ability to offer an opportunity for 2 stars to join forces in a big market.

I think their is a chance that we might look like an attractive free agent destination after next season and if we had the ability to offer a couple max contracts (or close to max) to some combination of Kyrie, Jimmy, Kawhi, Klay or maybe Kemba that might be enticing.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#705 » by SensiBull » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:06 am

No one is a GM here, and, even half of them aren't in it to win it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/15/nba-teams-can-still-pack-in-the-fans-even-if-they-dont-win.html

That doesn't mean that any of us are obligated to feel any less passionately about how we see the game, or to pretend to agree with others when we truly don't. If that's too much for some, there are lots of other internet-based activities on offer.

Today's player assessments by GM's are not like those of the last decade's. People are still carrying around this 2K mentality, where a really expensive machete is worth more than a collection of affordable Swiss Army knives.

Today's desired player is multi-skilled. A jack-of-all-trades is treated as more desirable to winning GM's than a master of one, even when that one 'skill' is inefficient scoring at 2 pts a possession.

By multi-skilled, I mean:

- In baseball, you're starting to see, in all sports, players like Shohei Ohtani, who can pitch and bat. You ask athletes who the best athlete of all time is, and they say Bo Jackson, because he was multi-sport, multi-position.

- In football, you're seeing players who can play Wide Receiver OR Quarterback competently. Running backs are catching out of the backfield. Linemen are declaring eligibility to run or receive on Red Zone plays.

In basketball, you're starting to see a financial premium put on players who can display the skills normally associated with a variety of positions.

- Forwards who can distribute, like LeBron, Ben Simmons, Draymond and Giannis.
- Bigs who can both shoot the 3 on offence and switch out to defend on the perimeter in pick-and-roll situations
- Guards who not only score, but create turnovers, distribute an shoot the 3 effectively enough to make opposing teams respects, rather than sagging off, ready to help double-team someone in the paint, knowing that your sad range is probably going to lead to you to try to score in traffic too

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/steals/sort/avgSteals/year/2018/seasontype/2

None of this is Zach Lavine.

- Sean Kilpatrick is just as one-dimensional as he is. I didn't say either one of them was 'good.'

- Justin Holiday isn't as potent a scorer, but, he averages 4 rebounds per game, averages 36% from the arc and isn't afraid to pull the trigger from there (rather than put his head down and charge like a rhino), which keeps the floor spaced, even when he's not hitting, and, the loss of LaVine's marginal additional scoring is not the drop off of a cliff's face that justifies 8-figure dollar amounts. What Holiday does may do more for the team both spatially and financially.

- In today's NBA, a Swiss Army knife like Denzel Valentine, who shoots better from the field and from 3 than LaVine, and yet is 9th on the Bulls in FG Attempts with 9 (as compared to Zach's 1st on the team with 15 FG Attempts), and isn't commanding an 8-figure salary, I can afford to lose Zach. I definitely consider him a viable option to save that money.

That's before even DISCUSSING other free agents or the trade market.

And, in case we (like Zach himself) have forgotten, basketball is a team sport.

If the risk of 'losing' LaVine is that we lose his 17ppg (because he sure as hell doesn't offer you anything else) then OF COURSE it matters whether any new addition to the team can make up for the loss of that scoring. 'Replace' was not my word.

Yet, there is a player coming to the team, in fact two players, who, without spending $40MM can combine to make up for his loss AND keep the Bulls in a position to get involved in both trades and free agency.

As for free agency, if you notice, NY, Brooklyn, Philly, Chicago, Miami, the Clippers, have ALL struggled in free agency. Our 'free agency problem' isn't any bigger than a lot of large-market, warm-weather teams. If there is a way to stay competitive, hamstringing ourselves with a one-dimensional, inefficient ball-hog and slapping a 'star' label on him isn't that way.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#706 » by SensiBull » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:09 am

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250407/Spurs-Prepared-To-Trade-Kawhi-Leonard

The San Antonio Spurs have reached a point where they are prepared to trade Kawhi Leonard.

"They're ready," said a source.

The Spurs had hoped to repair their relationship with Leonard.

ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reports that the Spurs are fully engaged in trade talks with multiple teams including the Boston Celtics and Los Angeles Lakers. Sources say the Spurs have the most interest in a trade package with the Celtics.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: The Celtics, however, are operating with extreme caution due to Leonard's health issues and apparent free agent desires. The Celtics are not interested in making a risky trade for Leonard. :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

The Lakers are willing to trade Brandon Ingram and a future first round pick for Leonard, but the Spurs are seeking a far bigger haul.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#707 » by SensiBull » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:13 am

And that's for the 2016 DPOY.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#708 » by MrFortune3 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:14 am

Isn't it amazing that despite all of the core and talent on the Celtics that top FA's seem more attracted to the Lakers than the Celtics?
That's insane from a basketball standpoint.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#709 » by kulaz3000 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:17 am

MrFortune3 wrote:Isn't it amazing that despite all of the core and talent on the Celtics that top FA's seem more attracted to the Lakers than the Celtics?
That's insane from a basketball standpoint.


If I'm an upcoming Star who is still in my 20's, I would rather cement my legacy on a team where I can be featured player, and build a legacy and not jump on a team which just made it to the ECF. And who wouldn't prefer to live in LA over Boston?

That's just me personally though.
Why so serious?
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#710 » by SensiBull » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:21 am

Kawhi is FROM Los Angeles.

This is the 'halo effect' that people want to give L.A. in free agency, because of the Shaq era, and probably because of a lot of rhetoric by Colin Cowherd.

For Kawhi and Paul George, who are both from California, this is no different than Dwyane wade wanting to play for the Bulls, Dwight Howard going to Atlanta, Jimmy Butler wanting to go to Houston or Carmelo wanting to play for the Knicks.

It's the 2nd biggest city in the country. When a lot of NBA veterans want to play for their home city, that home city is L.A.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawhi_Leonard
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#711 » by SensiBull » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:26 am

If it wasn't for Chris Paul already being in Houston, and not wanting to rebuild the Clippers there, DeAndre Jordan would probably be talking to the Rockets rather than the Mavs.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#712 » by MrFortune3 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:35 am

kulaz3000 wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:Isn't it amazing that despite all of the core and talent on the Celtics that top FA's seem more attracted to the Lakers than the Celtics?
That's insane from a basketball standpoint.


If I'm an upcoming Star who is still in my 20's, I would rather cement my legacy on a team where I can be featured player, and build a legacy and not jump on a team which just made it to the ECF. And who wouldn't prefer to live in LA over Boston?

That's just me personally though.


Yeah but most of them aren't going to be the featured player outside of 1 season. They are attempting to land in their preferred destination and then attract better players to join them.
If you plan on beating the Warriors, which is the team you have to overcome, then you need multiple stars and a bench.

LeBrown and Kawhi is not beating GS. Even if you manage to keep Ingram and Randle.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#713 » by MrFortune3 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:36 am

SensiBull wrote:If it wasn't for Chris Paul already being in Houston, and not wanting to rebuild the Clippers there, DeAndre Jordan would probably be talking to the Rockets rather than the Mavs.


There were rumors he expressed his interest in going to the Rockets and that the Rockets weren't interested in him vs Capela.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#714 » by ChiTownHero1992 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:41 am

If it is 14-16M per for awhile i'd be willing to keep Zach for awhile, any hire and let him walk
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#715 » by Truebiscuit » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:42 am



Forgot about this game... I thought LaVine did a good job facilitating and, although you only see one or two examples here, did a good job moving without the basketball.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#716 » by League Circles » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:50 am

NDave79 wrote:I hope we settle on a Niko (prove yourself) type deal, even if it's a big time over pay.

I'd be fine with the max for one season and then a team option.

I just really like the flexibility it provides.

Sure, if he explodes, we might regret not locking him up cheaper, but, I'd love to have the ability to offer an opportunity for 2 stars to join forces in a big market.

I think their is a chance that we might look like an attractive free agent destination after next season and if we had the ability to offer a couple max contracts (or close to max) to some combination of Kyrie, Jimmy, Kawhi, Klay or maybe Kemba that might be enticing.

Yep this is what I have been saying for months. 1 year guaranteed plus 1 year team option at anything up to the max.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#717 » by SensiBull » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:55 am

Truebiscuit wrote:

Forgot about this game... I thought LaVine did a good job facilitating and, although you only see one or two examples here, did a good job moving without the basketball.


Yes.

He did.

A. This is the exception, not the rule. This is like the 5th time in this thread that someone has used a grudge game against his old to show what he CAN do. I don't expect anybody to be on 110% all the time. You have to pace yourself, but, I'd rather see this against a conference opponent, where the beneficiary is the team, rather than getting all jacked to prove a point about something that is no longer in his control anyway. Do that 'ish' to Boston, not Minnesota. That just says it's personal, and tells you where his head is at which, once again, is not the team.

The team got smoked as a whole despite the show he put on.

B. There was no 3-pt shooting in all of those highlights, and, again, it's not about the points, it's about how tight and cluttered the paint is with bodies because the defence doesn't have to respect it. You watch kids soccer and the reason it's hilarious is because it's just this dust cloud and herd of hoofs around the ball, wherever it goes. As you move up to the pro level, attackers maintain their spacing, get deep into the corner, kick across the face of goal so that cutters in the middle of the field can make shots on goal with 'assists' that come from behind the goalie, preventing him from seeing how the attackers are in formation. There is a geography to it.

You look at these players, and it's like 6th grade ball, because everybody knows the shot (or the pass) is going to happen beneath the top of the key. Your Guards have to be the primary ones doing this, because it is that rare to have bigs that can do it instead.

C. If we're cherry-picking good games:

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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#718 » by HoopsterJones » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:56 am

MrFortune3 wrote:Isn't it amazing that despite all of the core and talent on the Celtics that top FA's seem more attracted to the Lakers than the Celtics?
That's insane from a basketball standpoint.


Living in LA is exponentially more attractive than living in Boston. I’d been to Boston many times. Dislike it a whole lot.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#719 » by SensiBull » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:57 am

Look at how empty the key is, and how disorganised and disoriented the whole defence is at the moment when he launches from behind the arc.

It's not just his individual stats. It's how the way he plays opens things up for everyone else.

Got the W over the Cavs with both Wade and LeBron on the floor. All-stars AND conference opponents.
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Re: Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M 

Post#720 » by ReturnofJPR » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:07 am

Yahoo! is running with a story that Vlade and the Kings are set to offer Lavine a 4 year $77 million contract.

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