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Trade and free agency speculation

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ImNotMcDiSwear
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1801 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:49 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Yeah, like I said, against those guys (basically the Rockets), I think it would be fine. But is weight is the bigger problem.

Ariza played primarily SF. Tucker played more PF. Tucker started 82 games and Capela started 74. Ariza started 67. That puts him almost always starting there...sure they had small ball lineups often, particularly against the Warriors, but Capela and Tucker were usually playing.

Wingspan is pretty important but you need to have mass to handle PF often. PJ Tucker is only 6'5 or 6'6 but is 245. Barkley was about the same size...a bit heavier.


I don't disagree. Matchups are strange. PJ can guard a lot of centers. But he's basically helpless in the post against Joe Johnson. Surprising, but true. There are fewer and fewer big fours in this league, which means going with two of JJ/TJ/Bridges at the forward slots should be effective (I think) much of the time.


bwgood77 wrote:
Yeah, I'm fine with a small maybe one year deal for Mbah A Moute who is a better defender than Bender but Bender probably has the tools to be a better defender and they shoot the same from 3 (Bender a tad better on higher volume). And then if we go with one of our SFs at the 4, I don't know how much time that leaves for Bender, and Chriss if he's still around.

It just seems like unless we are getting a clear upgrade or another guy that can solidly play C and rim protect/rebound (like maybe Favors), then I don't know I'd want to waste too much on just another body who doesn't give us a huge upgrade.


I'm a no on Favors because I don't think he's looking for a short-term bench role, which is what I'd offer.

As for Bender v. Mbah a Moute - IMO, Bender simply is the better shooter. I keep expressing these thoughts, but to reiterate:

(1) The collective crappiness of our team last season had a spillover, perpetuating effect. By comparison, Mbah a Moute was placed in a pretty good position much of the time with Lillard, McCollum and Shabazz kicking out.

(2) Also, you'll notice how abysmal Mbah a Moute was as a shooter up until pretty late in his career. A twelve year vet, he has only attempted threes at meaningful volume or hit a decent percentage of threes in 3 of his last 4 seasons (and by the metric I'm using, TJ's 40% on 1.5 attempts in his sophomore year beats ANY year of Mbah a Moute's career, save for last). This goes to show, and it is true for just about every player you look at, that three point shooting improves over the course of a career.

Now, it's true that (2) is true in large part due to the league's transition to focusing on the long ball, and players adjusting their games to stay in the league. Mbah a Moute was a bust as a draft pick and didn't become relevant until he started hitting threes at a respectable clip. The difference in talent between him and Jackson/TJ/Bridges I think is substantial, and if those guys improve as expected, what's the point of either Mbah a Moute or Ariza? To take the spot minutes we were hoping Dudley would claim? Given Dudley's advance numbers are generally good, perhaps we should just let Dudley keep those spot duty minutes.

Between Dragan, TJ, Chriss, Mikal, JJ and Dudley, I really don't think we'll have a problem manning the four spot. As I see it, the positional concerns at the 4 spot are:

(A) it isn't clear any of them should (and JJ simply shouldn't) START at the 4 (if we want to be any good);

(B) No flamethrowers. Not generally a big deal, but a guy like this sure can be useful, and I'm guessing Igor wants one; and

(C) There are still the Julius Randles of the league, who can beat you up pretty good if you don't have a body to bang with him.

I really hope (A) can be solved by one of Dragan, TJ, Chriss or Bridges earning that starting spot. I'm optimistic about this, even though (C) presents kind of a problem if you commit to TJ or Bridges. Bender can't handle Randle at all, but he can make up for that by continuing to improve on the offensive end. In some situations, you might have Dragan guard the 5 and Ayton guarding the 4.

And that leaves (B). If a starting quality guy can do this, that's great, but not necessary, and an expensive player is not ideal since you hope that one of the guys listed above can earn those minutes. So if you're just looking for a guy who can come in knock down that long ball...

... well, I know we're focused on the 4 spot, but could we trade a 2nd and Daniels for Kyle Korver? The best in the biz, and a solid defender at this point in his career, too. Only a 6'9" wingspan, but whatever. Two years left on Korver's contract at $7 mil per. I'd like that.

...... and now that we're talking about all the Cavs, I might consider something bigger like this if everyone coming back is okay with their roles (whatever they may be): http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybqzuz2a

Perhaps something like this is what that CLE tweeter was talking about a day or so ago. I might be open to throwing Quese and Zizic in that deal as well, if that would please CLE. Two birds, one stone.

We'd still have our $16-17 million or so of cap space, too. What would you add to this?

[Knight/Hill]-Okobo
Booker-Bridges-Harrison
Jackson-Korver-King
Bender-Warren
Ayton-Quese-Chandler

..... Mbah a Moute? :lol:


I'd probably do that trade, but not sure why Cleveland would. I don't think they save anything and get worse players. Neither Korver or Hill are guaranteed after next year (I think a $1 million guarantee for Hill and maybe a little over $3 million for Korver).


Ah. Didn't realize those contracts were not guaranteed. In that case, we would certainly have to send back value. Guess the simpler Korver trade makes more sense, or an even bigger trade involving Love as well.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1802 » by DirtyDez » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:56 pm

Gambo climaxing over a 24 year old role player. He said the Suns think VanVleet is an “interesting” name whatever that means. Said 12-15 mil a year over four. Exum for two years is much more logical.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1803 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:58 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
I don't disagree. Matchups are strange. PJ can guard a lot of centers. But he's basically helpless in the post against Joe Johnson. Surprising, but true. There are fewer and fewer big fours in this league, which means going with two of JJ/TJ/Bridges at the forward slots should be effective (I think) much of the time.




I'm a no on Favors because I don't think he's looking for a short-term bench role, which is what I'd offer.

As for Bender v. Mbah a Moute - IMO, Bender simply is the better shooter. I keep expressing these thoughts, but to reiterate:

(1) The collective crappiness of our team last season had a spillover, perpetuating effect. By comparison, Mbah a Moute was placed in a pretty good position much of the time with Lillard, McCollum and Shabazz kicking out.

(2) Also, you'll notice how abysmal Mbah a Moute was as a shooter up until pretty late in his career. A twelve year vet, he has only attempted threes at meaningful volume or hit a decent percentage of threes in 3 of his last 4 seasons (and by the metric I'm using, TJ's 40% on 1.5 attempts in his sophomore year beats ANY year of Mbah a Moute's career, save for last). This goes to show, and it is true for just about every player you look at, that three point shooting improves over the course of a career.

Now, it's true that (2) is true in large part due to the league's transition to focusing on the long ball, and players adjusting their games to stay in the league. Mbah a Moute was a bust as a draft pick and didn't become relevant until he started hitting threes at a respectable clip. The difference in talent between him and Jackson/TJ/Bridges I think is substantial, and if those guys improve as expected, what's the point of either Mbah a Moute or Ariza? To take the spot minutes we were hoping Dudley would claim? Given Dudley's advance numbers are generally good, perhaps we should just let Dudley keep those spot duty minutes.

Between Dragan, TJ, Chriss, Mikal, JJ and Dudley, I really don't think we'll have a problem manning the four spot. As I see it, the positional concerns at the 4 spot are:

(A) it isn't clear any of them should (and JJ simply shouldn't) START at the 4 (if we want to be any good);

(B) No flamethrowers. Not generally a big deal, but a guy like this sure can be useful, and I'm guessing Igor wants one; and

(C) There are still the Julius Randles of the league, who can beat you up pretty good if you don't have a body to bang with him.

I really hope (A) can be solved by one of Dragan, TJ, Chriss or Bridges earning that starting spot. I'm optimistic about this, even though (C) presents kind of a problem if you commit to TJ or Bridges. Bender can't handle Randle at all, but he can make up for that by continuing to improve on the offensive end. In some situations, you might have Dragan guard the 5 and Ayton guarding the 4.

And that leaves (B). If a starting quality guy can do this, that's great, but not necessary, and an expensive player is not ideal since you hope that one of the guys listed above can earn those minutes. So if you're just looking for a guy who can come in knock down that long ball...

... well, I know we're focused on the 4 spot, but could we trade a 2nd and Daniels for Kyle Korver? The best in the biz, and a solid defender at this point in his career, too. Only a 6'9" wingspan, but whatever. Two years left on Korver's contract at $7 mil per. I'd like that.

...... and now that we're talking about all the Cavs, I might consider something bigger like this if everyone coming back is okay with their roles (whatever they may be): http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybqzuz2a

Perhaps something like this is what that CLE tweeter was talking about a day or so ago. I might be open to throwing Quese and Zizic in that deal as well, if that would please CLE. Two birds, one stone.

We'd still have our $16-17 million or so of cap space, too. What would you add to this?

[Knight/Hill]-Okobo
Booker-Bridges-Harrison
Jackson-Korver-King
Bender-Warren
Ayton-Quese-Chandler

..... Mbah a Moute? :lol:


I'd probably do that trade, but not sure why Cleveland would. I don't think they save anything and get worse players. Neither Korver or Hill are guaranteed after next year (I think a $1 million guarantee for Hill and maybe a little over $3 million for Korver).


Ah. Didn't realize those contracts were not guaranteed. In that case, we would certainly have to send back value. Guess the simpler Korver trade makes more sense, or an even bigger trade involving Love as well.


When the rumors about the trade with the Cavs - came up with the trade that saved the CAvs like 15m for Love and Hill, lus Warren and Chriss -- there might be a play there if LeBron leaves and the Cavs do rebuild. Granted - it was a bogus rumor
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1804 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:00 pm

DirtyDez wrote:Gambo climaxing over a 24 year old role player. He said the Suns think VanVleet is an “interesting” name whatever that means. Said 12-15 mil a year over four. Exum for two years is much more logical.


Van Vleet can only start at 9m per year and he is not workth pulling a Crabbe/Tyler contract to get the deal to 50/4 he just isn't

if Gambo is pushing Van Vleet - the Suns are getting Marcus Smart :)
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1805 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:02 pm

DirtyDez wrote:Gambo climaxing over a 24 year old role player. He said the Suns think VanVleet is an “interesting” name whatever that means. Said 12-15 mil a year over four. Exum for two years is much more logical.


12-15 a year over 4 for Van Vleet? That's ludicrous. We'd be bidding against ourselves, unless Orlando his hot after him, but if so, let them have him at that price.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1806 » by Saberestar » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:06 pm

DirtyDez wrote:Gambo climaxing over a 24 year old role player. He said the Suns think VanVleet is an “interesting” name whatever that means. Said 12-15 mil a year over four. Exum for two years is much more logical.

That is crazy money for him.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1807 » by darealjuice » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:07 pm

Giving FVV $12-15M per year for 4 years is Biyombo-like. Please don't give role players big contracts, especially when they're not proven starters.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1808 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:09 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:Gambo climaxing over a 24 year old role player. He said the Suns think VanVleet is an “interesting” name whatever that means. Said 12-15 mil a year over four. Exum for two years is much more logical.


12-15 a year over 4 for Van Vleet? That's ludicrous. We'd be bidding against ourselves, unless Orlando his hot after him, but if so, let them have him at that price.


The problem with that report is there are restrictions on a contract - and my guess Gambo doesn't get that. Yes, if the Suns do a poison pill contract - they can get to an average of 12m. But its not like signing Tyreke to a 4/50 deal. Van Vleet is starting at a max of 9.5 in year 1. My FVV deal is still 3/25 top. I can pay Tyreke 4/50 and know what i am getting

I think Doug of Doug & Wolf had a trade with Cleveland last week - and he didn't take into account Cleveland over the cap so the deal didn't work!
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1809 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:25 pm

If this is a legit account for Sham - Ball out a year

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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1810 » by Jwetz83 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:27 pm

That complicates some things with the Lakers.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1811 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:29 pm

Jwetz83 wrote:That complicates some things with the Lakers.


I do feel bad for BAll - nobody wants injuries. But Ingram has to be included for Kawhi and that's part of the business.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1812 » by Moochthemonkey » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:30 pm

BobbieL wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:Gambo climaxing over a 24 year old role player. He said the Suns think VanVleet is an “interesting” name whatever that means. Said 12-15 mil a year over four. Exum for two years is much more logical.


Van Vleet can only start at 9m per year and he is not workth pulling a Crabbe/Tyler contract to get the deal to 50/4 he just isn't

if Gambo is pushing Van Vleet - the Suns are getting Marcus Smart :)


Someone needs to tell Gambo to say that Lebron is not coming to the Suns
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1813 » by matt131 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:32 pm

BobbieL wrote:If this is a legit account for Sham - Ball out a year

Read on Twitter


I don't think a meniscus tear takes a year to recover from. Perhaps he means "Next season" as in the upcoming season.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1814 » by 49erhokie » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:39 pm

Meniscus tears are usually 6-8 weeks recovery time.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1815 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:44 pm

BobbieL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:Gambo climaxing over a 24 year old role player. He said the Suns think VanVleet is an “interesting” name whatever that means. Said 12-15 mil a year over four. Exum for two years is much more logical.


12-15 a year over 4 for Van Vleet? That's ludicrous. We'd be bidding against ourselves, unless Orlando his hot after him, but if so, let them have him at that price.


The problem with that report is there are restrictions on a contract - and my guess Gambo doesn't get that. Yes, if the Suns do a poison pill contract - they can get to an average of 12m. But its not like signing Tyreke to a 4/50 deal. Van Vleet is starting at a max of 9.5 in year 1. My FVV deal is still 3/25 top. I can pay Tyreke 4/50 and know what i am getting

I think Doug of Doug & Wolf had a trade with Cleveland last week - and he didn't take into account Cleveland over the cap so the deal didn't work!


Plus I don't think Orlando has cap space. I can't see a team with cap space going after him. Orlando could if they lose Gordon I guess.

I still think we might be going after Gordon. I hope we don't vastly overpay him though.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1816 » by darealjuice » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:45 pm

DAJ officially opts out. Dallas, here he comes!
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1817 » by cberry78 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:46 pm

Maze wrote:I don't understand the VanVleet love.I was listening to 98.7 yesterday, and one of the host was gushing about this guy.Went and looked up his stats.....8 pts 3 assist and 42% FG

That's not all that impressive.His 3pt numbers look good, but still.What am I missing here?

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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1818 » by thamadkant » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:56 pm

Van Vleet... Do not want.

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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1819 » by JJ13 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:58 pm

now that Dallas is out of the Capela sweepstakes (likely signing DAJ), maybe we can swing in and get him for "cheap" (not max) and roll Ayton out as PF? Bad idea?
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1820 » by Damkac » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:03 pm

Ayton is C.

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