Trade and free agency speculation

[Jwetz83]

I don’t understand why the Suns would back load the contract.

If the Suns offered say 3 years. 42 million. With a player and team option for year 3.

Year 1. What else are the Suns spending the money on??

Year 2. With chandler and Dudley coming off the books, the suns can still be a player in a max deal next year. Knight in final year, easier to move him. Can easily creat 40+ plus in cap space

Year 3. Suns can get out if things go south.

I just think the Suns need a point guard. If they have to overpay, then gamble, but only on a shorter deal.

[BobbieL]

I don't know that anyone pushed for a huge deal for Van Vleet here. Sidery posted the outrage idea and a few others on twitter talked about it. I think everyone here said its outrageous.

I've mentioned my top few choices a number of times and wanting to do one year deals. But there were some here that recognize VanVleet has talent and wouldn't mind him at a reasonable cost.

A lot of people are bashing Van Vleet because they are assuming that he will definitely cost $14M/yr or so when that’s just not true. There is no evidence of that other than the Sidery tweet which he was just spit balling and throwing a random number out there.

I’m confident that with the way free agency is looking at the moment, he should cost a lot less.

It all depends on what Toronto is willing to match, so if they don't it will likely be an overpay, but that's the only way to get RFAs. That's why I'd look at guys like Beverley and others first.

A contract would likely require a jump in year 3, but maybe not nearly as high as Sidery tweeted, and maybe no 4th year. I have high hopes for Okobo though, so I'd really look at a bunch of the more vet 1 year options...we could always look again next year if Okobo isn't ready.

I have plenty of time to change my thoughts but I am calling my moves for Free AGency week at 9pm is only 5 hours plus away:

1) Beverly at PG
2) FAvors on a 3/48 deal - the Igor connection
3) Trading Chandler, Dudley, Daniels, possibly Chriss , Warren (not all but one or a combination) - to create a bit more cap space to do the above two items

Sorry Kerrsed - probably do not have the funds to get Lance

[lebron stopper]

Remember last year when it looked like Norman Powell was poised to break out on the Raptors? He was an important guy in their closing lineups, even playing with starters at times. Then the raptors extended him to around 10million per and he regressed and practically fell out of the rotation? Yeah... don’t spend big money on Fred VanVleet.

Powell's fall off was due to him playing as a catch and shoot small forward, when he's really a combo guard.

Fred VanVleet is not Norman Powell. You will love having Fred VanVleet on your team.

If you think Lowry is one of the best PGs in the league we have a significant difference of opinion on what that means. and you can give me all the stats you want he doesnt pass the eye test for me as far as best PG's in the league I can give you 10 I think are better without thinking much about it and more if I put in some effort.

He's the biggest reason by far why the Raptors make the playoffs every year now. Although he's no longer in his prime nowadays.

I would still have discussions to see if Lowry is still available - for the right combination of players - maybe sending out less to take back more. As if this Van Vleet deal is truly what some are blogging because of a GM panicking - give me Lowry for two years as long as the right contracts go back to Raptor land

Any and all Lowry to Phoenix trades will involve Josh Jackson coming back in return.

So, as a Raptors fan - what are the Raptors willing to pay lux tax penalty wise. Hard to see a team taking JVal or Ibaka or Lowry to really give the Raptors cap space this year. So if you sign Van Vleet for 3/27 -- that costs really about 14m with lux tax penalties with a 9m salary in year 1.

IMO, as much as I'd love to dump that bum Ibaka (JV is actually good, although overpaid), if there's no deal to get rid of Ibaka without giving up anything else, Raptors should just bench him and then pay the luxury tax to keep the team together. ML$E got $800 million for naming rights last year...

Which reminds me. Would you guys eat Ibaka's salary to get Delon Wright? Or no?

I don’t see the appeal of Van Fleet. Limited sample size on a contract year with a low ceiling low potential. If we are looking to hand out a bloated contract then be my guess.

He's very good. The Raptors bench mob looks terrible without VanVleet setting them up.

[Jwetz83]

A lot of people are bashing Van Vleet because they are assuming that he will definitely cost $14M/yr or so when that’s just not true. There is no evidence of that other than the Sidery tweet which he was just spit balling and throwing a random number out there.

I’m confident that with the way free agency is looking at the moment, he should cost a lot less.

It all depends on what Toronto is willing to match, so if they don't it will likely be an overpay, but that's the only way to get RFAs. That's why I'd look at guys like Beverley and others first.

A contract would likely require a jump in year 3, but maybe not nearly as high as Sidery tweeted, and maybe no 4th year. I have high hopes for Okobo though, so I'd really look at a bunch of the more vet 1 year options...we could always look again next year if Okobo isn't ready.

I have plenty of time to change my thoughts but I am calling my moves for Free AGency week at 9pm is only 5 hours plus away:

1) Beverly at PG
2) FAvors on a 3/48 deal - the Igor connection
3) Trading Chandler, Dudley, Daniels, possibly Chriss , Warren (not all but one or a combination) - to create a bit more cap space to do the above two items

Sorry Kerrsed - probably do not have the funds to get Lance

Ideal off season.

Trade for love. No way Cleveland keeps him when James leaves. He has a player option next year. I can’t see him resigning there. So either 2 years max , but more than likely , he will opt out next year from Cleveland.

Sign either Van Vleet or Smart to a contract. Nothing long term though. Over pay for 2 years. Create competition at the pg position.

Let the young players play, but make them earn playing time.

[SlovenianDragon]

I think some people want to do something just to do something....

Im scared.

[Sarni]

Anything above $6million a year is an overpay for VanVleet. He’s good enough to be a back up on a winning team as proven last season but he’s not a starting caliber player and as a Portland fan I can honestly tell you how much it sucks to have your cap space bloated with average players making way too much.

I would actually prefer to give up a pick and take on Willians/MKG salary in a deal to get someone like Kemba for a year. You are still wasting a lot of cap space but at least you get someone who helps you win games instantly in a significant way.

[BobbieL]

Remember last year when it looked like Norman Powell was poised to break out on the Raptors? He was an important guy in their closing lineups, even playing with starters at times. Then the raptors extended him to around 10million per and he regressed and practically fell out of the rotation? Yeah... don’t spend big money on Fred VanVleet.

Powell's fall off was due to him playing as a catch and shoot small forward, when he's really a combo guard.

Fred VanVleet is not Norman Powell. You will love having Fred VanVleet on your team.

If you think Lowry is one of the best PGs in the league we have a significant difference of opinion on what that means. and you can give me all the stats you want he doesnt pass the eye test for me as far as best PG's in the league I can give you 10 I think are better without thinking much about it and more if I put in some effort.

He's the biggest reason by far why the Raptors make the playoffs every year now. Although he's no longer in his prime nowadays.

I would still have discussions to see if Lowry is still available - for the right combination of players - maybe sending out less to take back more. As if this Van Vleet deal is truly what some are blogging because of a GM panicking - give me Lowry for two years as long as the right contracts go back to Raptor land

Any and all Lowry to Phoenix trades will involve Josh Jackson coming back in return.

So, as a Raptors fan - what are the Raptors willing to pay lux tax penalty wise. Hard to see a team taking JVal or Ibaka or Lowry to really give the Raptors cap space this year. So if you sign Van Vleet for 3/27 -- that costs really about 14m with lux tax penalties with a 9m salary in year 1.

IMO, as much as I'd love to dump that bum Ibaka (JV is actually good, although overpaid), if there's no deal to get rid of Ibaka without giving up anything else, Raptors should just bench him and then pay the luxury tax to keep the team together. ML$E got $800 million for naming rights last year...

Which reminds me. Would you guys eat Ibaka's salary to get Delon Wright? Or no?

I don’t see the appeal of Van Fleet. Limited sample size on a contract year with a low ceiling low potential. If we are looking to hand out a bloated contract then be my guess.

He's very good. The Raptors bench mob looks terrible without VanVleet setting them up.

If as reports are true the Raptors are open for business - I am not sure they have leverage to expect Josh Jackson in a trade for Lowry. They might do well to get Chriss, Warren and cap space next summer Maybe the Ratpros are willing to pay the lux tax for two more years.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[BobbieL]

[quote="Sarni"]Anything above $6million a year is an overpay for VanVleet. He’s good enough to be a back up on a winning team as proven last season but he’s not a starting caliber player and as a Portland fan I can honestly tell you how much it sucks to have your cap space bloated with average players making way too much.

I would actually prefer to give up a pick and take on Willians/MKG salary in a deal to get someone like Kemba for a year. You are still wasting a lot of cap space but at least you get someone who helps you win games instantly in a significant way.[/quote]

In the Suns current cap situation - it would have to Warren, Bucks pick for Williams and Kemba. Suns waive Alan Williams to get the cap space for the two Hornets. Risky unless Kemba re-signs .

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

looking at a damn big lux tax bill -- how about Millsap and a first for Chandler and Daniels . Would save the Nuggets around 35m. Or Warren Dudley - some combination.

or include Porter instead of the first

[STEV13]

Waiving Ulis earlier today all but confirms that the first deal we see at 12:01am is Booker’s max extension. Hard to believe we wouldnt have sought our Lord and Savior’s opinion before the cut.

Anyway, if we’re going to give that much money to FVV, we might as well just offer the same to Marcus Smart. We need young vets with that bull dog attitude. No matter what they say about the shooting — the defense and playmaking are at least there, plus a core of Smart/Book/JJ/Mikal/Ayton just exudes too much alpha and that hate-to-lose mindset. Man, we desperately need that.

[Waylay13]

It all depends on what Toronto is willing to match, so if they don't it will likely be an overpay, but that's the only way to get RFAs. That's why I'd look at guys like Beverley and others first.

A contract would likely require a jump in year 3, but maybe not nearly as high as Sidery tweeted, and maybe no 4th year. I have high hopes for Okobo though, so I'd really look at a bunch of the more vet 1 year options...we could always look again next year if Okobo isn't ready.

I have plenty of time to change my thoughts but I am calling my moves for Free AGency week at 9pm is only 5 hours plus away:

1) Beverly at PG
2) FAvors on a 3/48 deal - the Igor connection
3) Trading Chandler, Dudley, Daniels, possibly Chriss , Warren (not all but one or a combination) - to create a bit more cap space to do the above two items

Sorry Kerrsed - probably do not have the funds to get Lance

Ideal off season.

Trade for love. No way Cleveland keeps him when James leaves. He has a player option next year. I can’t see him resigning there. So either 2 years max , but more than likely , he will opt out next year from Cleveland.

Sign either Van Vleet or Smart to a contract. Nothing long term though. Over pay for 2 years. Create competition at the pg position.

Let the young players play, but make them earn playing time.

You and I have an extremely different idea of of ideal. This teams windows is going to open in 3 to 5 years. What good is trading for a player that has no chance of being around and productive at that time? I dont see any value in Love.

[JMac1]

I think we should keep cap flexibility for next year. If we show huge improvement circa 2003 to 2004, then we would be a prime destination in 2019 and after. Young team with 2-3 potential franchise guys and a beautifully located city.

[carey]

A ton of teams will have space next year when the '16 deals start to come off the cap. It's probably why we are so keen on spending this year.

[JMac1]

Waiving Ulis earlier today all but confirms that the first deal we see at 12:01am is Booker’s max extension. Hard to believe we wouldnt have sought our Lord and Savior’s opinion before the cut.

Anyway, if we’re going to give that much money to FVV, we might as well just offer the same to Marcus Smart. We need young vets with that bull dog attitude. No matter what they say about the shooting — the defense and playmaking are at least there, plus a core of Smart/Book/JJ/Mikal/Ayton just exudes too much alpha and that hate-to-lose mindset. Man, we desperately need that.

That would be the only reason I'd take Smart. Having a PJ Tucker at PG would be ideal. Just wished he could shoot or do something offensively. If he could pass being the 5th option on offense, then that small ball lineup of

Smart
Booker
Mikal
JJ
Ayton would be sick both ways. Ayton is gonna be a plus defender, I have no doubt about it.

Can't believe I am intrigued by Smart today

[matt131]

A ton of teams will have space next year when the '16 deals start to come off the cap. It's probably why we are so keen on spending this year.

Exactly. More talent. More money around the league. Just as possible to walk away with nothing.

Interesting thing about this summer is seeing how fast the money dries up. There could be a lot of bargain deals if we play things correctly (don't want to miss out on anyone, yes, but an overpay is just as bad).

[SuperSunsFan]

A ton of teams will have space next year when the '16 deals start to come off the cap. It's probably why we are so keen on spending this year.

We could be the best young team in the league by next year that we become the most desirable destination for free agents. No one we are signing this off season will move the needle at all, improvement will have to come internally.

For those who say we need veterans to win, guess what, we have veterans. Booker, Warren and Knight are the veterans now and if we don't win it is on them. If Suns don't make the playoffs Booker can't blame it on anyone else but himself, he will be a four year veteran by the end of next year, Ben Simmons took his team to the playoffs pretty much all by himself in his rookie season.

[Jwetz83]

I have plenty of time to change my thoughts but I am calling my moves for Free AGency week at 9pm is only 5 hours plus away:

1) Beverly at PG
2) FAvors on a 3/48 deal - the Igor connection
3) Trading Chandler, Dudley, Daniels, possibly Chriss , Warren (not all but one or a combination) - to create a bit more cap space to do the above two items

Sorry Kerrsed - probably do not have the funds to get Lance

Ideal off season.

Trade for love. No way Cleveland keeps him when James leaves. He has a player option next year. I can’t see him resigning there. So either 2 years max , but more than likely , he will opt out next year from Cleveland.

Sign either Van Vleet or Smart to a contract. Nothing long term though. Over pay for 2 years. Create competition at the pg position.

Let the young players play, but make them earn playing time.

You and I have an extremely different idea of of ideal. This teams windows is going to open in 3 to 5 years. What good is trading for a player that has no chance of being around and productive at that time? I dont see any value in Love.

Exactly 3 years is what I envision.

Love brings veteran leadership. The young suns need to learn how to win. In 2 years, either a ton of cap space opens up or love resigns.

Same thing with the pg. That move hopefully allows the young suns more growth, but also able to strike big in 2 years.

It’s great to have draft picks and young players, but at some point these assets will not see court.

[SlovenianDragon]

What if we just found what ever rock Kendall Marshall is living under.

Kendall Marshall as a starter:

8/10 on 39/37/51

Ball as a starter:

10/7 on 36/29/44

Why trade for Lonzo ball when we can just find Kendall Marshall somewhere....

You feel me dawgs...

[Villalobos]

Waiving Ulis earlier today all but confirms that the first deal we see at 12:01am is Booker’s max extension. Hard to believe we wouldnt have sought our Lord and Savior’s opinion before the cut.

dunno, this is the same front office that thought a twin brother wouldn't (predictably) freak out when his twin got traded

they are pretty bad at reading/dealing with people