Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

[samwana]

Bulls will match Zach at 20 mil per

They will?? Why??

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[SensiBull]

Whereas, the alternative would only be this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/02/01/joakim-noah-is-a-walking-embodiment-of-the-nbas-purse-tightening/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8072a4e67f4c

Except for it being a completely different situation but yes use this to fuel your bias.

Bias?

Bias towards what?

I'm not comparing situations. This isn't player v. player. I'm comparing risks.

That article only establishes that the whole league is still waking up from a tequila hangover, and you're serving tequila shots.

The risk to the franchise is hamstrining your franchise. It's a legitimate concern.

Bias is lifting something higher, artificially, when there is no lift, elevator, tsunami, rising tide, gust of wind or any other upward force on the price of Lavine.

I could see if it was demand and supply, but, the number of franchises with money has gone down, the number of free agent guards is still high, including uninjured and/or more accomplished players than Zach for cheaper (Isaiah Thomas, Jamal Crawford, Marcus Smart, Rodney Hood), but, people still think that some magical tidal wave of 'stardom' or something is going to lift his price.

THAT would be bias.

I'm just looking at the facts. I don't see any cornered market in anything other than the temporary leaping ability of youth.

[SensiBull]

It's musical chairs.

Count the chairs. Count the bodies. Somebody's going to wind up standing.

[SensiBull]

And nobody's naming their price.

[SensiBull]

Maybe this is how his stats will improve.

Every season he'll get up for 'revenge' games against Minnesota AND Chicago, and have TWO games a year where he shows his old team what they could have had (only to lose to the same team two weeks later unceremoniously).

[SHO'NUFF]

[rtblues]

What were seeing, based on the activity among the remaining unrestricted F/As, leaves the restricted bunch up a creek without a negotiating chip. Money is super tight, already have seen Julius Randle sign for 18MIL/2yrs; Boogie Cousins for 5.6Mil/1yr; and of course some teams jumping the gun and overpaying for too many years already, Doug McDermott getting 22Mil/3yrs; and the ridiculous, Lance to the Lakers, at any friggin' price!

Point is, the remaining unrestricted guys are going to find it extremely difficult to find offers. In-fact the taking on of bad contracts seems to be a more attractive option to the few remaining teams that do have any significant CAP space available.

The result is headed to where the unrestricted guys are going to be stuck on their current teams having received no offers, and without that bargaining chip of an actual offer will be left holding their dicks and their qualifying offers. Meanwhile the last remaining unrestricted players will sweat it out until August and eventually sign what will be in-effect bargain contracts for their teams, minus Capela who is going to get PAID.

Let's just say that the prognosis for Zach Lavine's future money/contract isn't in the same stratosphere as a long-term, big money deal. That's not happening. The Bulls hold all the cards and are in control. It's a "prove-it" year for Lavine and any offer has to reflect the reality of this. In-fact, from the organization's standpoint, they have to be prudent and will not just spend cash because they have it. Witness the great crap-storm of 2016 that has left teams with toxic, un-tradeable contracts that are killing their CAP and leave organizations unable to do anything other than waive or use the stretch provision on such players, both moves carry repercussions for the teams doing this.

Last thing is, I've been hearing the ridiculous argument for Lavine that goes spmething like this, "The Bulls have had a historical reputation for not being able to attract Star-F/As, so they should lock up this young potential star." Yeah, that's a pretty bad reason to hand a guy a big bag of cash. Signing a player for this reason has no basis in player evaluation or performance.

I remember the days of the great chase to sign Melo, with threads on this board going over 100 pages and continuation threads reaching over 100 pages, and on and on. Thinking about this today, the Bulls would be paying Fat-Melo $27,928,140 this season.

"Be careful of what you want, you may get it."
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them."

[Ctownbulls]

They would be praised if they passed.

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Not with the history of cheapness and huge cap space. Remember the not paying the europe thing. That’s not good even when its false, bad perception lingers.

I mean us fans will be okay with it (maybe some won’t) but the media will have a field day.

I'm with you. The Bulls trade Jimmy Butler and then let the main piece in the return walk because they don't want to pay him?

It would take a lot of popcorn to watch that fallout

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He may have been the centerpiece at the time but he's the 3rd best asset from the trade now.

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[Proven_Winner]

Not with the history of cheapness and huge cap space. Remember the not paying the europe thing. That’s not good even when its false, bad perception lingers.

I mean us fans will be okay with it (maybe some won’t) but the media will have a field day.

I'm with you. The Bulls trade Jimmy Butler and then let the main piece in the return walk because they don't want to pay him?

It would take a lot of popcorn to watch that fallout

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He may have been the centerpiece at the time but he's the 3rd best asset from the trade now.

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Sadly we’re the only ones who’ll say that. Media definitely won’t spin it that way.

[Ctownbulls]

I'm with you. The Bulls trade Jimmy Butler and then let the main piece in the return walk because they don't want to pay him?

It would take a lot of popcorn to watch that fallout

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He may have been the centerpiece at the time but he's the 3rd best asset from the trade now.

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Sadly we’re the only ones who’ll say that. Media definitely won’t spin it that way.

Who gives a **** about the media? If they are making decisions based on the immediate response from the media and not based on the best intentions of the franchise then it's a major issue. You don't give someone $80M just because a few bloggers and reporters may criticize a trade that was made a year ago.

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[Onibuh]

they want to sell tickets and having LaVine will help with that. More than no LaVine would.

Problem with Lowball and prove-it would be the future. What if he reaches his offensiv potential or gets his D to average? You'd have a Young SG that "got IT" hitting the market.

[Betta Bulleavit]

He may have been the centerpiece at the time but he's the 3rd best asset from the trade now.

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Sadly we’re the only ones who’ll say that. Media definitely won’t spin it that way.

Who gives a **** about the media? If they are making decisions based on the immediate response from the media and not based on the best intentions of the franchise then it's a major issue. You don't give someone $80M just because a few bloggers and reporters may criticize a trade that was made a year ago.

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Eh, so how then can we expect for them NOT to pay him that amount just because some folks on Real GM said not to?? At the end of the day, it's up to them to live and die with the decisions that they make. I like Lavine and have been a strong advocate for retaining him. But 4y/80M is a bit rich for my blood. But what do I know??

[Ctownbulls]

Sadly we’re the only ones who’ll say that. Media definitely won’t spin it that way.

Who gives a **** about the media? If they are making decisions based on the immediate response from the media and not based on the best intentions of the franchise then it's a major issue. You don't give someone $80M just because a few bloggers and reporters may criticize a trade that was made a year ago.

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Eh, so how then can we expect for them NOT to pay him that amount just because some folks on Real GM said not to?? At the end of the day, it's up to them to live and die with the decisions that they make. I like Lavine and have been a strong advocate for retaining him. But 4y/80M is a bit rich for my blood. But what do I know??

I am just saying they need to make the right decision irrespective of the critics. Whether the critics are the mainstream media, bloggers or RealGM posters.

My point was, paying Lavine simply because he was the centerpiece of Jimmy trade doesn't mean he needs to be paid. The contract needs to be evaluated based on the player he is today, post injury recovery and 1/4 of a season in a Bulls uniform.

If they think he is worth $20 then so be it but being part of the Jimmy trade doesn't impact the evaluation.

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[fleet]

So, how would a 20 million dollar deal for Lavine affect our ability to add a super max guy?

(Not that it would ever happen, just play along )

No.

Most guys that are truly good, show by their 3rd year. If you've decided that he has shown, you pay him. If you are not seeing that yet, buyer beware. It is certainly unclear to me. Maybe it isn't for somebody else. But its a huge risk to set up a brand new team foundation on a questionable contract that is sizeable.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Who gives a **** about the media? If they are making decisions based on the immediate response from the media and not based on the best intentions of the franchise then it's a major issue. You don't give someone $80M just because a few bloggers and reporters may criticize a trade that was made a year ago.

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Eh, so how then can we expect for them NOT to pay him that amount just because some folks on Real GM said not to?? At the end of the day, it's up to them to live and die with the decisions that they make. I like Lavine and have been a strong advocate for retaining him. But 4y/80M is a bit rich for my blood. But what do I know??

I am just saying they need to make the right decision irrespective of the critics. Whether the critics are the mainstream media, bloggers or RealGM posters.

My point was, paying Lavine simply because he was the centerpiece of Jimmy trade doesn't mean he needs to be paid. The contract needs to be evaluated based on the player he is today, post injury recovery and 1/4 of a season in a Bulls uniform.

If they think he is worth $20 then so be it but being part of the Jimmy trade doesn't impact the evaluation.

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Agreed. What he was at the time of the trade should have little baring on whatever decision they make. That's a dangerous game to play. Whatever they pay him should be driven by them having supreme confidence that he can be a major piece going forward. Some think that he can be and others, not so much.

[Betta Bulleavit]

So, how would a 20 million dollar deal for Lavine affect our ability to add a super max guy?

(Not that it would ever happen, just play along )

No.

Most guys that are truly good, show by their 3rd year. If you've decided that he has shown, you pay him. If you are not seeing that yet, buyer beware. Its certainly unclear to me. Maybe it isn't for somebody else. But its a huge risk to set up a brand new team foundation on a questionable contract that is sizeable.

And1'd this. I would add though that 20M has become 2nd and sometimes even 3rd option money in today's NBA. So I think that as we assess what we are looking for Lavine to become, it sort of starts with the understanding that even at that price tag he technically wouldn't be being paid as a number one guy. That is what you are ideally saving a max slot for next season. But in general, it really is a tricky risk.

[Stratmaster]

I'm with you. The Bulls trade Jimmy Butler and then let the main piece in the return walk because they don't want to pay him?

It would take a lot of popcorn to watch that fallout

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He may have been the centerpiece at the time but he's the 3rd best asset from the trade now.

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Sadly we’re the only ones who’ll say that. Media definitely won’t spin it that way.

Personally I don't think you can take anything from last season. Honestly, I don't think any of us really know how LaVine is going to turn out. The Bulls could refuse to match an offer and he could go somewhere else and end up an All-Star. They could also agree to match a big offer and end up with a bench player being paid 20 million a year.

He still has the most upside of anyone in that deal. Remember, the Bulls didn't trade Butler for Lauri. They traded him for a number 7 draft pick which ended up being Lauri.

I expect he will still be a Bull this year.

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[Stratmaster]

Who gives a **** about the media? If they are making decisions based on the immediate response from the media and not based on the best intentions of the franchise then it's a major issue. You don't give someone $80M just because a few bloggers and reporters may criticize a trade that was made a year ago.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Eh, so how then can we expect for them NOT to pay him that amount just because some folks on Real GM said not to?? At the end of the day, it's up to them to live and die with the decisions that they make. I like Lavine and have been a strong advocate for retaining him. But 4y/80M is a bit rich for my blood. But what do I know??

I am just saying they need to make the right decision irrespective of the critics. Whether the critics are the mainstream media, bloggers or RealGM posters.

My point was, paying Lavine simply because he was the centerpiece of Jimmy trade doesn't mean he needs to be paid. The contract needs to be evaluated based on the player he is today, post injury recovery and 1/4 of a season in a Bulls uniform.

If they think he is worth $20 then so be it but being part of the Jimmy trade doesn't impact the evaluation.

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To be clear, no one ever said it should be part of the Bulls evaluation. I believe two of us simply commented on what the Uproar will be if the Bulls evaluation is to let him walk.

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[SensiBull]

I think a lot more sense is being talked in this thread now, and, for those who feel that this discussion has gone one way too long, or, that there is no point in talking about it, because 'que sera sera', I offer this:

Zach LaVine is the object of this thread, not the subject. The actual subject of the thread is what the fan base, incliuding us, are hoping that management is trying to achieve.

What we're doing through these discusssions here is almost a form of the old Dating Game, where a couple that is engaged to be married is asked questions about the other spouse, and, they wind up shocked and surprised about how much they didn't truly understand about the other person, or, how much the other person didn't understand about them.

And, this isn't just happening on this board.

This is a fascinating discussion about this very topic that starts out with both sides posing llke they have a mutual interest in championships.

By the end, one of them inadvertently confesses to wanting a 'decent' team, and, having a grand entertainment vision for Zach Lavine, on the Atlanta Hawks, where, rather than being a crucial piece to winning basketball franchise, he becomes almost a sword-swallower, fire-breather or buxom beer maid for a hip-hop happening where Quavo from Migos, Offset, Future and Atlanta's hip-hop royalty and elite can be amused by Zach's windmill dunks.

Guess which side that it. Do you think it's the pay Zach the most you can crowd or the 'let the market set the price' crowd?

Remember, both of them start out as if they are serious about basketball and winning.

Watch on YouTube

Psychologists will tell you that we use celebrities to calibrate our values with each other, not necessarily out of genuine interest in these strangers. What my best friend thinks of Ozzy Osbourne biting the head off of a bat is more important to me than Ozzy Osbourne or the welfare of small animals.

It's a calibration tool.

What this discussion about Lavine is showing me is tantamount to learning that half the Bulls fan base is actually made up of A.I.

They talk like they want to bake a cake, but, when you start talking eggs, flour, sugar and butter, they start talking Vodka, Vermouth and olives.Yet, if you ask them straight up if they would rather have a martini than cake, they look you straight in the eye and ask, "How dare you? Are you accusing me of being an alcoholic?"

Well, by the end of this video, this pro-Zach fan comes clean and just goes ahead and orders his martini, which is a much more respectable way to handle it.

I'm SO happy I didn't grow up in Atlanta.

[SensiBull]

That's NOT what Bulls fans are hoping for GarPax to build.