Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

[StunnerKO]

If it’s 17 mill per, that’s easy to match


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If Zach is adamant about wanting that additional 10 million or so over the course of 4 years, then good luck in Sacramento, where he will likely be forgotten and lost.

That said, they'd be fun to watch, lots of athletic ability up and down their roster if they acquire Zach.

Something is wrong if 10 million over 4 years is enough to let him walk. That's a pittance. Either you believe him or you don't. **** or get off the pot. Would be typical Bulls to dick around like that though. Like that extra 2.5 million is gonna cost us Kawahi or something.

Bulls and 6 million difference with Butler turned into 40 million

[Ctownbulls]

He may have been the centerpiece at the time but he's the 3rd best asset from the trade now.

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Sadly we’re the only ones who’ll say that. Media definitely won’t spin it that way.

Personally I don't think you can take anything from last season. Honestly, I don't think any of us really know how LaVine is going to turn out. The Bulls could refuse to match an offer and he could go somewhere else and end up an All-Star. They could also agree to match a big offer and end up with a bench player being paid 20 million a year.

He still has the most upside of anyone in that deal. Remember, the Bulls didn't trade Butler for Lauri. They traded him for a number 7 draft pick which ended up being Lauri.

I expect he will still be a Bull this year.

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The point is, if nobody knows what he will be since he was just returning from injury and played poorly in just a few games then why is he deserving of a big deal?

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[SensiBull]

He's a rear spoiler on a pick-up truck.

[Ralphb07]

Sadly we’re the only ones who’ll say that. Media definitely won’t spin it that way.

Personally I don't think you can take anything from last season. Honestly, I don't think any of us really know how LaVine is going to turn out. The Bulls could refuse to match an offer and he could go somewhere else and end up an All-Star. They could also agree to match a big offer and end up with a bench player being paid 20 million a year.

He still has the most upside of anyone in that deal. Remember, the Bulls didn't trade Butler for Lauri. They traded him for a number 7 draft pick which ended up being Lauri.

I expect he will still be a Bull this year.

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The point is, if nobody knows what he will be since he was just returning from injury and played poorly in just a few games then why is he deserving of a big deal?

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Devin Booker just got 5/148 and if you look at Lavine pre ACL and Booker the numbers are similar. The risk you take with Zach is kinda what happen with Jimmy. The Bulls and him were 2 mil apart when he bet on himself and it cost the Bulls a lot more the following year. So for me if people think he’s worth only 13 mil but 17 gets the deal done that’s a gamble I’m willing to take because Zach at 17 mil could turn out to be a real value contract.

I do know teams would be lining up to sign Zach at 14-16 mil if he was a UFA. His value is for actual NBA team are a bit higher than fans. The same applied with the value of Jimmy on the open market vs what fans thought his value was.

[Proven_Winner]

Personally I don't think you can take anything from last season. Honestly, I don't think any of us really know how LaVine is going to turn out. The Bulls could refuse to match an offer and he could go somewhere else and end up an All-Star. They could also agree to match a big offer and end up with a bench player being paid 20 million a year.

He still has the most upside of anyone in that deal. Remember, the Bulls didn't trade Butler for Lauri. They traded him for a number 7 draft pick which ended up being Lauri.

I expect he will still be a Bull this year.

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The point is, if nobody knows what he will be since he was just returning from injury and played poorly in just a few games then why is he deserving of a big deal?

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Devin Booker just got 5/148 and if you look at Lavine pre ACL and Booker the numbers are similar. The risk you take with Zach is kinda what happen with Jimmy. The Bulls and him were 2 mil apart when he bet on himself and it cost the Bulls a lot more the following year. So for me if people think he’s worth only 13 mil but 17 gets the deal done that’s a gamble I’m willing to take because Zach at 17 mil could turn out to be a real value contract.

I do know teams would be lining up to sign Zach at 14-16 mil if he was a UFA. His value is for actual NBA team are a bit higher than fans. The same applied with the value of Jimmy on the open market vs what fans thought his value was.

Spot on and this is what separates fans from the actual GMs. It’s not checkers it’s chess. Teams don’t just go for the now they aim for the future too. Fans only take what we see now which is why we have a lot of those moments going back to previous threads looking how wrong or hyperbolic we were about a player or situation.

[Ice Man]

Devin Booker just got 5/148

Donovan Mitchell was +2.15 in RPM as a rookie, and Devin Booker was -0.95 in his 3rd year. Which, granted, was up substantially from where he had previously been. I would be dying if I were a Phoenix GM betting my franchise on a guy who hasn't yet been good, when the team the next state over has a guy who you know will be good. Because he already is. If I were the Phoenix GM, I'd ship out my maybe player and look to get a sure-thing like Mitchell.

Which I guess gives my view on LaVine. Although at least he's not a gamble of the sort that Minnesota made on Wiggins, Orlando did on Gordon, and Phoenix has done on Booker. He is a lesser gamble. But man, those moves worry me.

[Ctownbulls]

The point is, if nobody knows what he will be since he was just returning from injury and played poorly in just a few games then why is he deserving of a big deal?

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Devin Booker just got 5/148 and if you look at Lavine pre ACL and Booker the numbers are similar. The risk you take with Zach is kinda what happen with Jimmy. The Bulls and him were 2 mil apart when he bet on himself and it cost the Bulls a lot more the following year. So for me if people think he’s worth only 13 mil but 17 gets the deal done that’s a gamble I’m willing to take because Zach at 17 mil could turn out to be a real value contract.

I do know teams would be lining up to sign Zach at 14-16 mil if he was a UFA. His value is for actual NBA team are a bit higher than fans. The same applied with the value of Jimmy on the open market vs what fans thought his value was.

Spot on and this is what separates fans from the actual GMs. It’s not checkers it’s chess. Teams don’t just go for the now they aim for the future too. Fans only take what we see now which is why we have a lot of those moments going back to previous threads looking how wrong or hyperbolic we were about a player or situation.

Spot on? We are comparing Devon Booker to Zach Lavine here. Maybe their stats were on par two years ago but Zach has had an ACL injury since and played poorly in his return. Also, let's not compare those two players over simple statistics. The entire basketball community understands Booker is an untouchable, future star. Zach isn't even being wooed in free agency.

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[Ralphb07]

Devin Booker just got 5/148

Donovan Mitchell was +2.15 in RPM as a rookie, and Devin Booker was -0.95 in his 3rd year. Which, granted, was up substantially from where he had previously been. I would be dying if I were a Phoenix GM betting my franchise on a guy who hasn't yet been good, when the team the next state over has a guy who you know will be good. Because he already is. If I were the Phoenix GM, I'd ship out my maybe player and look to get a sure-thing like Mitchell.

Which I guess gives my view on LaVine. Although at least he's not a gamble of the sort that Minnesota made on Wiggins, Orlando did on Gordon, and Phoenix has done on Booker. He is a lesser gamble. But man, those moves worry me.

But with Zach you are talking 17 mil instead of the 31 mil Booker got which was my point.

[Ice Man]

It’s not checkers it’s chess.

Neither the Warriors, Rockets, Celtics, Spurs, nor Sixers have paid anything like Booker's money for a negative RPM player. If you know of smarter franchises than those, I'd like to hear who they are.

[Ralphb07]

Devin Booker just got 5/148 and if you look at Lavine pre ACL and Booker the numbers are similar. The risk you take with Zach is kinda what happen with Jimmy. The Bulls and him were 2 mil apart when he bet on himself and it cost the Bulls a lot more the following year. So for me if people think he’s worth only 13 mil but 17 gets the deal done that’s a gamble I’m willing to take because Zach at 17 mil could turn out to be a real value contract.

I do know teams would be lining up to sign Zach at 14-16 mil if he was a UFA. His value is for actual NBA team are a bit higher than fans. The same applied with the value of Jimmy on the open market vs what fans thought his value was.

Spot on and this is what separates fans from the actual GMs. It’s not checkers it’s chess. Teams don’t just go for the now they aim for the future too. Fans only take what we see now which is why we have a lot of those moments going back to previous threads looking how wrong or hyperbolic we were about a player or situation.

Spot on? We are comparing Devon Booker to Zach Lavine here. Maybe their stats were on par two years ago but Zach has had an ACL injury since and played poorly in his return. Also, let's not compare those two players over simple statistics. The entire basketball community understands Booker is an untouchable, future star. Zach isn't even being wooed in free agency.

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The Zach not being wooed statement that continues to get tossed around is such ****. No RFA is being wooed as their current team can match and freeze the teams money who makes the offer sheet for 72 hours. To go even further that 72 hours doesn’t start July 1 when you verbally agree but actual can’t even start until July 6th at the earliest. Let that sink in for a moment. So if Indy would’ve July 1 offered Zach a deal they would’ve missed out on Tyreke and Doug couldn’t sign the sheet until July 6th and would have that money froze until July 9th. That’s. 9 days of frozen money. So when the Bulls match such deal Indy screws themselves in this free agency. You want to see Zach be wooed let him sign a 1+ 1 and you’ll see all the wooing you can handle when he is now unrestricted.

The point with Booker is he is someone who got 31 per and with Zach we are talking about half that.

[Moosegary]

Why not offer a 1+1 with 20 million plus that 1st year? The Bulls have the cap and have another year to evaluate him. I still have a hard time seeing Sacramento signing him to an offer sheet. Is Zach really that much better then what they already have?

[ATRAIN53]

His shoe deal with Adidas is 4/35

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21269175/chicago-bulls-guard-zach-lavine-signs-adidas

I think like PG13 - You suffer a major injury, you want the guaranteed money. Gambling on yourself is different when you've had a major injury.

KIngs can def afford him at 20 mil.
They have Bogdanovich & Heild and maybe Justin Jackson at SG
Zach a really good fit there too and closer to home.

But it's not a major market for endorsements.
But I don't think he needs that. He's already a known entity in the NBA.

So hopefully that is not the angle GarPax are relying on - he can make more off the court here than Sacramento.

He def wants Aaron Gordon money....

Read on Twitter

[Proven_Winner]

It’s not checkers it’s chess.

Neither the Warriors, Rockets, Celtics, Spurs, nor Sixers have paid anything like Booker's money for a negative RPM player. If you know of smarter franchises than those, I'd like to hear who they are.

IM not advocating signing Zach to big money. I’m simply agreeing with Ralph that it’s more to a contract than just what have you done for me now. I mean look at all those teams you just named they all have set themselves right in the past and come now they have what they want and more.

What I will say is if bulls can get Zach at 14 -17mil I’m all for it. Also do you think some of those franchises are truly smart is it just because now they’re good? Never heard of anyone touting Houston, GS and sixers as smart until people saw the direction they were going in and those teams set it in motion years ago.

[Ice Man]

Also do you think some of those franchises are truly smart is it just because now they’re good? Never heard of anyone touting Houston, GS and sixers as smart until people saw the direction they were going in and those teams set it in motion years ago.

A fair question.

I think that Houston is truly smart, under its current owner/GM. It recognized long ago the need for a superstar, figured out how to get one via the deal of the century, and built the right team around the guy.

GS, I don't know. It was fortunate to draft the guys that it did. It has acted intelligently once it got those guys, but I will grant that the most important part was landing the right players, which always involves plenty of luck.

The Sixers, I will take off the list. They went ultra-tank, it worked. It might not have worked.

[dougthonus]

The Zach not being wooed statement that continues to get tossed around is such ****. No RFA is being wooed as their current team can match and freeze the teams money who makes the offer sheet for 72 hours. To go even further that 72 hours doesn’t start July 1 when you verbally agree but actual can’t even start until July 6th at the earliest. Let that sink in for a moment. So if Indy would’ve July 1 offered Zach a deal they would’ve missed out on Tyreke and Doug couldn’t sign the sheet until July 6th and would have that money froze until July 9th. That’s. 9 days of frozen money. So when the Bulls match such deal Indy screws themselves in this free agency. You want to see Zach be wooed let him sign a 1+ 1 and you’ll see all the wooing you can handle when he is now unrestricted.

We'll find out tomorrow. I think if a team prioritizes Doug and Tyreke over Zach that it shows you quite a bit about Zach's value though.

The point with Booker is he is someone who got 31 per and with Zach we are talking about half that.

This comparison is silly. Booker played a whole season at a significantly higher level than Zach has ever played and isn't coming off a season where he stats make him worth about the vet minimum. Zach's action with the Bulls was simply dreadful. I mean god awful. Sub 50% TS% with absolutely no value outside of scoring is "doesn't belong in the NBA" level bad.

We're assuming that he has a massive turn around from last year just to be worth the MLE. There are reasons this is likely, but to turn from that into a 17m+ player? Probably not. He was borederline worth that much when he was on a role in Minnesota as a 3rd option, but after an ACL injury with no signs of positive performance and still massive gaping holes in his game?

It's like gambling on Tyrus Thomas after four years, hoping that a super athletic guy just suddenly gets it. Except Tyrus Thomas didn't tear his ACL.

[chrispatrick]

It’s not checkers it’s chess.

Neither the Warriors, Rockets, Celtics, Spurs, nor Sixers have paid anything like Booker's money for a negative RPM player. If you know of smarter franchises than those, I'd like to hear who they are.

I have no connections to the basketball world but recently had the good fortune of speaking to one NBA team's former analytics guy at a work conference I was attending for a couple of hours over dinner. It was fairly hilarious to hear about some of the trade scenarios his team had been asked to look at. It was his opinion that some of the GMs really need to be protected from themselves, and I don't think that's ground-breaking given some of the contracts we've seen handed out in recent years to non-difference makers.

The takeaway though was that not all GMs think alike. What one GM thinks is a smart move, another will think is a stupid one. There are teams who obsess over the advanced stats we all talk about this board (and have their own advanced stats), and other teams who think its garbage. The guy I was talking to obviously had a bias towards analytics, but if one team gives a guy a big contract, that doesn't mean there aren't other teams in the league joking about and mocking that contract.

While we discussed many players, we didn't discuss Zach LaVine, so I have no idea what this particular franchise thought of him. But my point is that if someone offers LaVine a big contract, it doesn't mean that other GMs might not think it's a terrible move. A couple of recent posts are suggesting that any money thrown at LaVine is validation that he's worth the gamble.

[BearsBulls78]

Devin Booker just got 5/148 and if you look at Lavine pre ACL and Booker the numbers are similar. The risk you take with Zach is kinda what happen with Jimmy. The Bulls and him were 2 mil apart when he bet on himself and it cost the Bulls a lot more the following year. So for me if people think he’s worth only 13 mil but 17 gets the deal done that’s a gamble I’m willing to take because Zach at 17 mil could turn out to be a real value contract.

I do know teams would be lining up to sign Zach at 14-16 mil if he was a UFA. His value is for actual NBA team are a bit higher than fans. The same applied with the value of Jimmy on the open market vs what fans thought his value was.

A few disagreements here:

1. Just because the Suns overpaid doesn't mean the Bulls should. I mean Booker is nearing a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio for a point guard.
2. Big difference with Jimmy and LaVine is what they do for the team. Jimmy scored, rebounded, and defended. LaVine just scores. He's a negative defensively. Again, he hasn't had a double digit rebounding game EVER and hasn't had a double digit assist game since his rookie year.

This is a league where scoring specialists aren't as valued. Scoring is great, but scoring efficiently and doing other + things matters. LaVine has no other + skills, I'd argue that he's got more - things than he should.

[fleet]

IM not advocating signing Zach to big money. I’m simply agreeing with Ralph that it’s more to a contract than just what have you done for me now..

Not a lot more. Not really. If you are rolling almost strictly on upside, those are tiny contracts. Low risk high reward. That is almost where we are with this guy

What I will say is if bulls can get Zach at 14 -17mil I’m all for it.

"Zach" is not worth this at all. 'Super Zach', perhaps is. I'd love to see Super Zach. No-one really knows if he exists. So I'm not all for it. I'll tolerate it if I have to. And chew my nails all summer until I see some return on the gamble.

[Hangtime84]

His shoe deal with Adidas is 4/35

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21269175/chicago-bulls-guard-zach-lavine-signs-adidas

I think like PG13 - You suffer a major injury, you want the guaranteed money. Gambling on yourself is different when you've had a major injury.

KIngs can def afford him at 20 mil.
They have Bogdanovich & Heild and maybe Justin Jackson at SG
Zach a really good fit there too and closer to home.

But it's not a major market for endorsements.
But I don't think he needs that. He's already a known entity in the NBA.

So hopefully that is not the angle GarPax are relying on - he can make more off the court here than Sacramento.

He def wants Aaron Gordon money....

Read on Twitter

Yeah i'm good pass. Not even a all star level player yet guys want to get paid by one. He works hard, but results need to show on court and not just with scoring PPG.

[Ralphb07]

The Zach not being wooed statement that continues to get tossed around is such ****. No RFA is being wooed as their current team can match and freeze the teams money who makes the offer sheet for 72 hours. To go even further that 72 hours doesn’t start July 1 when you verbally agree but actual can’t even start until July 6th at the earliest. Let that sink in for a moment. So if Indy would’ve July 1 offered Zach a deal they would’ve missed out on Tyreke and Doug couldn’t sign the sheet until July 6th and would have that money froze until July 9th. That’s. 9 days of frozen money. So when the Bulls match such deal Indy screws themselves in this free agency. You want to see Zach be wooed let him sign a 1+ 1 and you’ll see all the wooing you can handle when he is now unrestricted.

We'll find out tomorrow. I think if a team prioritizes Doug and Tyreke over Zach that it shows you quite a bit about Zach's value though.

The point with Booker is he is someone who got 31 per and with Zach we are talking about half that.

This comparison is silly. Booker played a whole season at a significantly higher level than Zach has ever played and isn't coming off a season where he stats make him worth about the vet minimum. Zach's action with the Bulls was simply dreadful. I mean god awful. Sub 50% TS% with absolutely no value outside of scoring is "doesn't belong in the NBA" level bad.

We're assuming that he has a massive turn around from last year just to be worth the MLE. There are reasons this is likely, but to turn from that into a 17m+ player? Probably not. He was borederline worth that much when he was on a role in Minnesota as a 3rd option, but after an ACL injury with no signs of positive performance and still massive gaping holes in his game?

It's like gambling on Tyrus Thomas after four years, hoping that a super athletic guy just suddenly gets it. Except Tyrus Thomas didn't tear his ACL.

Doug what’s silly is freezing your money on a free agent you have no shot at getting because you know the current team is matching? Do you think teams don’t value Capella, Parker, Smart or Gordon as no team looked at them. The RFA market is tough but it’s doesn’t mean you purposely not try and lock your guy up because of it. Obviously don’t go overboard but try and still get a deal done.

Zach pre injury career is on par with Booker. Also I never said give Zach 31 million like Booker got. I’m saying that a pre injured Zach being paid 17 mil is more than fair. Also that besides being rusty last season to me at least shown he didn’t lose anything from that injury.