Wiz sign Jeff Green to 1 year deal

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My auto-correct is full of s*** today and I don't feel like editing anything

I truly hate autocorrect

Sent from my LG-TP260 using RealGM mobile app

[gambitx777]

I don't hate this hes going to play more PF than SF and if the young kids out play him they will play hes not a bad deal for 2.5 I like it.

[gtn130]

Jeff Green is garbage and always has been. Plays zero defense and takes lots of midrange Kobe style shots. Scott Brooks probably loves his game.

[FAH1223]

Jeff Green is garbage and always has been. Plays zero defense and takes lots of midrange Kobe style shots. Scott Brooks probably loves his game.

Brooks when he sees Green passing to the open man and not bricking a mid-range

[NatP4]

Jeff Green is garbage and always has been. Plays zero defense and takes lots of midrange Kobe style shots. Scott Brooks probably loves his game.

Yet he finished with 4 win shares, 26th in RPM for small forwards and a positive net rating. Also a 15 PER and .587 TS% 18th in wins added for SFs.

Doesn’t seem like garbage to me, he’s also signed for the minimum on a team that actually did have garbage in that spot off the bench last year.

*Awaits personal attack for disagreeing*

[TGW]

Horrible signing for several reasons:

1) Green is average at best
2) He's going to take away minutes from Oubre and Porter
3) There's no doubt Brooks tries to play him and Morris together for extended periods of time

[nate33]

Horrible signing for several reasons:

1) Green is average at best
2) He's going to take away minutes from Oubre and Porter
3) There's no doubt Brooks tries to play him and Morris together for extended periods of time

1. Getting an "average at best" guy for the vet minimum is a good thing.
2. Probably not many. He'll take Mike Scott's minutes.
3. Possibly, but only when Morris is at center. I don't see either of those guys playing any SF minutes.

I'm struggling to figure out what you were hoping for. Should we have simply not signed anyone so that all the forward minutes were handled by Morris, Porter and Oubre (and an unproven rookie)? What if one of them gets hurt?

We're you hoping for someone better than Green at a vet minimum salary?

[TGW]

Horrible signing for several reasons:

1) Green is average at best
2) He's going to take away minutes from Oubre and Porter
3) There's no doubt Brooks tries to play him and Morris together for extended periods of time

1. Getting an "average at best" guy for the vet minimum is a good thing.
2. Probably not many. He'll take Mike Scott's minutes.
3. Possibly, but only when Morris is at center. I don't see either of those guys playing any SF minutes.

I'm struggling to figure out what you were hoping for. Should we have simply not signed anyone so that all the forward minutes were handled by Morris, Porter and Oubre (and an unproven rookie)? What if one of them gets hurt?

We're you hoping for someone better than Green at a vet minimum salary?

No. I don't want a perceived rotation guy at the minimum. I want a "break-the glass" type who only plays when needed. Once one of those guys start taking minutes from starters and better players, they become a liability and not an asset.

[gtn130]

Jeff Green is garbage and always has been. Plays zero defense and takes lots of midrange Kobe style shots. Scott Brooks probably loves his game.

Yet he finished with 4 win shares, 26th in RPM for small forwards and a positive net rating. Also a 15 PER and .587 TS% 18th in wins added for SFs.

Doesn’t seem like garbage to me, he’s also signed for the minimum on a team that actually did have garbage in that spot off the bench last year.

*Awaits personal attack for disagreeing*

He's been a negative player for his entire career.

[nate33]

Horrible signing for several reasons:

1) Green is average at best
2) He's going to take away minutes from Oubre and Porter
3) There's no doubt Brooks tries to play him and Morris together for extended periods of time

1. Getting an "average at best" guy for the vet minimum is a good thing.
2. Probably not many. He'll take Mike Scott's minutes.
3. Possibly, but only when Morris is at center. I don't see either of those guys playing any SF minutes.

I'm struggling to figure out what you were hoping for. Should we have simply not signed anyone so that all the forward minutes were handled by Morris, Porter and Oubre (and an unproven rookie)? What if one of them gets hurt?

We're you hoping for someone better than Green at a vet minimum salary?

No. I don't want a perceived rotation guy at the minimum. I want a "break-the glass" type who only plays when needed. Once one of those guys start taking minutes from starters and better players, they become a liability and not an asset.

So the guy we signed... for the vet minimum, is too good? We would have been better off signing a worse guy? Are you listening to yourself?

[TGW]

1. Getting an "average at best" guy for the vet minimum is a good thing.
2. Probably not many. He'll take Mike Scott's minutes.
3. Possibly, but only when Morris is at center. I don't see either of those guys playing any SF minutes.

I'm struggling to figure out what you were hoping for. Should we have simply not signed anyone so that all the forward minutes were handled by Morris, Porter and Oubre (and an unproven rookie)? What if one of them gets hurt?

We're you hoping for someone better than Green at a vet minimum salary?

No. I don't want a perceived rotation guy at the minimum. I want a "break-the glass" type who only plays when needed. Once one of those guys start taking minutes from starters and better players, they become a liability and not an asset.

So the guy we signed... for the vet minimum, is too good? We would have been better off signing a worse guy? Are you listening to yourself?

you're missing the point completely. egh...whatever. you'll see in a few months exactly what I'm talking about.

[nate33]

No. I don't want a perceived rotation guy at the minimum. I want a "break-the glass" type who only plays when needed. Once one of those guys start taking minutes from starters and better players, they become a liability and not an asset.

So the guy we signed... for the vet minimum, is too good? We would have been better off signing a worse guy? Are you listening to yourself?

you're missing the point completely. egh...whatever. you'll see in a few months exactly what I'm talking about.

I get your point. It sounds like your real complaint is with Scott Brooks. That's understandable. But you don't address problems with Brooks' rotation decisions by building a roster with depth so bad that he can only play the 6 or 7 guys you want him to play. That leaves the team far too vulnerable to injury.

If Brooks starts playing Green over Porter and Oubre, then we can complain then. And the complaint should be about Brooks, not Grunfeld. A GM's job is to acquire as much talent as he can for the least amount of money possible. I'd say EG did pretty well on this signing.

[dckingsfan]

Waiting for the Jeff Green working hard video...

[NatP4]

So the guy we signed... for the vet minimum, is too good? We would have been better off signing a worse guy? Are you listening to yourself?

you're missing the point completely. egh...whatever. you'll see in a few months exactly what I'm talking about.

I get your point. It sounds like your real complaint is with Scott Brooks. That's understandable. But you don't address problems with Brooks' rotation decisions by building a roster with depth so bad that he can only play the 6 or 7 guys you want him to play. That leaves the team far too vulnerable to injury.

If Brooks starts playing Green over Porter and Oubre, then we can complain then. And the complaint should be about Brooks, not Grunfeld. A GM's job is to acquire as much talent as he can for the least amount of money possible. I'd say EG did pretty well on this signing.

Wait, I made this exact point last year when Brooks was playing Bojan over Oubre and Porter. Same thing with the Marcus Thornton vet min signing that also led to Otto and KO losing minutes.

And literally every scrub PG that played over Sato. AND Mike Scott on the minimum who should never be playing over Porter at the 4 with Oubre at the 3.

It was “nitpicking” then

[pcbothwel]

No. I don't want a perceived rotation guy at the minimum. I want a "break-the glass" type who only plays when needed. Once one of those guys start taking minutes from starters and better players, they become a liability and not an asset.

So the guy we signed... for the vet minimum, is too good? We would have been better off signing a worse guy? Are you listening to yourself?

you're missing the point completely. egh...whatever. you'll see in a few months exactly what I'm talking about.

Not all minutes are created equal. As in, we can all be pissed and say Sato should be getting 20-25 MPG instead of 15 MPG... But you cant do the same with Otto. They guy is constantly injured... I love him, but its true.
So yeah, increasing Otto from 32 to say 36 MPG might be smart on paper, but that doesnt take into account fatigue (both acute and cumulative)
"Taking away" minutes is needed for Wall, Beal, and Otto... no matter how much better they are than the bench.
Also, dont be surprised if Kieff gets more minutes at the 5 and therefore we need more minutes from our 4 spot.

[nate33]

So the guy we signed... for the vet minimum, is too good? We would have been better off signing a worse guy? Are you listening to yourself?

you're missing the point completely. egh...whatever. you'll see in a few months exactly what I'm talking about.

Not all minutes are created equal. As in, we can all be pissed and say Sato should be getting 20-25 MPG instead of 15 MPG... But you cant do the same with Otto. They guy is constantly injured... I love him, but its true.
So yeah, increasing Otto from 32 to say 36 MPG might be smart on paper, but that doesnt take into account fatigue (both acute and cumulative)
"Taking away" minutes is needed for Wall, Beal, and Otto... no matter how much better they are than the bench.
Also, dont be surprised if Kieff gets more minutes at the 5 and therefore we need more minutes from our 4 spot.

Exactly.

I don't have too many complaints with the minutes Porter has been getting. The guy isn't really that durable and he breaks down. He may be a 32 mpg player and not a 36 mpg player. And it's hard to complain much about Oubre's minutes. He was 3rd on the team in total minutes played and got substantially more minutes than Morris (despite coming off the bench, which makes it hard to log heavy minutes). Looking back, I can't be upset that Mike Scott stole too many minutes from Oubre/Porter because I don't really think Oubre and Porter could have played that many more minutes.

If Green gets all of Scott's minutes, plus he steals a minute or two from Oubre and/or Mahinmi, I'd be fine with it.

Complaints about Brooks' handling of Sato's minutes are completely founded though. I've got no defense of Brooks on that front. It's criminal how many minutes Frazier and Meeks got once it became evident that Sato was an effective player. Frazier shouldn't have played again except in garbage time, Meeks should have played less, and even Beal should have had his minutes cut back a little bit in favor of Sato - particularly any minutes in which he was playing PG.

[NatP4]

I don’t have complaints about Otto and Kelly’s minutes, moreso their horrific usage.

2017-2018 Brooks predictions:

1. He will play Rivers more than Sato because he creates his own shot more (not actually) Sato will play those 10-12 meaningless minutes off the ball like he did as a rookie, standing in the corner watching rivers disgrace basketball.

2. Green will play over all of Brown, Oubre, and Porter, we wont play any Otto at the 4 with Kelly at the 3 small ball because of Jeff Green.

3. Brooks will continue to bench Mahinmi and use Morris at center (which is horrid)

4. Sato STILL won’t be used at the 3 next to Wall Beal and Porter at all like he should be.

5. Thomas Bryant won’t play AT ALL because like some posters on this board, Brooks thinks Morris is capable of playing center.

6. Troy Brown will be used sparingly, and only in horrific lineups featuring something like Wall+Rivers+Jeff Green+Morris.

7. Did I mention that Austin Rivers will be a scott Brooks favorite?

8. Penava won’t play a single second, even though I expect him to be a decent player from the start, maybe even better than Morris.

[nate33]

I don’t have complaints about Otto and Kelly’s minutes, moreso their horrific usage.

2017-2018 Brooks predictions:

1. He will play Rivers more than Sato because he creates his own shot more (not actually) Sato will play those 10-12 meaningless minutes off the ball like he did as a rookie, standing in the corner watching rivers disgrace basketball.

2. Green will play over all of Brown, Oubre, and Porter, we wont play any Otto at the 4 with Kelly at the 3 small ball because of Jeff Green.

3. Brooks will continue to bench Mahinmi and use Morris at center (which is horrid)

4. Sato STILL won’t be used at the 3 next to Wall Beal and Porter at all like he should be.

5. Thomas Bryant won’t play AT ALL because like some posters on this board, Brooks thinks Morris is capable of playing center.

6. Troy Brown will be used sparingly, and only in horrific lineups featuring something like Wall+Rivers+Jeff Green+Morris.

7. Did I mention that Austin Rivers will be a scott Brooks favorite?

8. Penava won’t play a single second, even though I expect him to be a decent player from the start, maybe even better than Morris.

I too am scared to death of how much Rivers will play. Ironically, Rivers' best use would be as a ball handler late in the game because of the stupid isolation plays that Brooks insists on running down the stretch. But that's actually the only time Rivers won't play because he'll have Wall and Beal in the game to close it out.

Any chance we can give away Rivers right now? That would solve our luxtax problems.

[verbal8]

I think a lot of the success/failure of the Wizards this season will be determined by where Rivers and Green fall in the rotation.

They are players that should be in the 8 to 10 range in the rotation. So paying the minimum is great, $10+ million is not.

Wall/Porter/Beal are decent as the top 3.

The slots 4 through 7 in the rotation are the real problem. Hopefully Howard can be a solid starter. Morris is going to be worse than most other starters. It really depends on Sato and Oubre being able to improve and produce this season at a level that they are productive for the 6th and 7th slots in a typical rotation.

If Rivers and Green are 5th and 6th in the rotation in terms of the minutes and usage, this will a bad season.

[payitforward]

Horrible signing for several reasons:

1) Green is average at best
2) He's going to take away minutes from Oubre and Porter
3) There's no doubt Brooks tries to play him and Morris together for extended periods of time

1. Getting an "average at best" guy for the vet minimum is a good thing.
2. Probably not many. He'll take Mike Scott's minutes.
3. Possibly, but only when Morris is at center. I don't see either of those guys playing any SF minutes.

I'm struggling to figure out what you were hoping for. Should we have simply not signed anyone so that all the forward minutes were handled by Morris, Porter and Oubre (and an unproven rookie)? What if one of them gets hurt?

We're you hoping for someone better than Green at a vet minimum salary?

Green is not "average at best." He is a lot worse than average. He was never good, & he''ll be 32 in a month so "at best" was long long ago. He is about as good as Mike Scott -- no worse but also no better.

What I'd have been "hoping for" was a young player -- either another guy out of R2 (Keita Bates-Diop?) or an undrafted guy like Gary Clark. As an outstanding 4 year player, Clark would have had a shot to contribute this year. I don't see any particular reason to think he'd be worse than Green. He might be better.

Then again it might take him a year or so to become a solid journeyman. Ditto Bates-Diop.

But either of these guys would represent an attempt to actually add to this team, which a 1-year Rent-a-Player like Green does not. & either would be ours to control at a low cost over a period of a few years.

But, because the team has been built in an incompetent way, every year we "need" rental vets. This year it's Howard (who is at least a good player) & Green so far. Last year it was Scott, Sessions & Frazier. The year before it was Thornton, Bogdanovic & Jennings, the year before that it was Neal, Gooden, Thornton, Anderson, Dudley, Hickson & Hollins.

If you repeat that cycle, you never break that cycle. So, it's not a question whether there was someone better than Green for $2.5m -- although I can't imagine it would be difficult to find a player who fits that description: Ernie has never shown much skill in choosing FAs. It's that w/ something like 20 draft picks between John Wall & Troy Brown, we have managed to add 4 players.

If we'd used our picks sensibly, & especially If we'd bought R2 picks in each of the last few years, we'd have developing guys on our roster giving actual vectors for growth & continuity.

As to injury, it's fair to say that Green has been durable, I agree. But, you know what, if Porter is injured & Green has to play heavy minutes, we're sunk anyway.

Not even Thomas Bryant will be able to help us.