Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

[League Circles]

TJR, I dont want Zach to blow up after we let him go. I think its very likely that happens. Its happening with Niko.

How many years did we wait for Niko to blow up? I think the Bulls are just waiting for the market to establish the price gif Lavine I don’t think the Bulls should be the first to offer when it gives these other teams the right t out bid and start a bidding war over LaVine


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They wont. They're seasoned players. We'll see what Zach's agent can bring in. If he cant bring in an offer sheet, then 1+ 1 is of course the best way to go ( Doug's plan).

Or, there's also the Cousins route that Zach can take.

He can ask to be moved to a contending team to play for cheap and get visibility as he prepares for 2019 free agency. A team that can use him is LA Lakers.

Man I love Doug but I've been beating the 1+1 offer to Zach nearly every day on this board for a calendar year.

[League Circles]

Musiq, haven't you suggested numerous times offering him a four-year contract? If you haven't I feel like we've been arguing about absolutely nothing. All I've ever said is that I just want to offer him a OnePlus One deal. If he gets an offer sheet I'll evaluate what it is.

[SensiBull]

Sam Smith:

Sorry, I'd rather have LaVine. Again, I get these requests fairly frequently to not resign LaVine, which is strange to me. OK, he's hasn't defended much in Minnesota, either. But here's an excellent athlete who is a very good three-point shooter, solid citizen, anxious to improve, a young 6-5 guard. Yes, he had ACL surgery and we hate that phrase, and he didn't finish last season, though who really knows with the artificial competition after the All-Star break. I find it hard to believe given his health situation LaVine gets any sort of break-the-bank offer as a restricted free agent. Teams are no longer allowed to say they'll match to scare off competitors or restricted free agents. If LaVine were in this draft, he'd have been a top 10 player. He's 23 years old and ready to have a full season again after missing much of the last two. He's a top athlete for a team long searching for more athletes and the biggest name in the Jimmy Butler trade. I cannot personally see a circumstance in which I would not want to work out a contract with LaVine. I think he's going to be a terrific player again.

I agree 110%.

Who in the Top Ten of this year's draft was coming off and ACL?

Who in the Top Ten of this year's draft has a rookie contract of more than $9MM per (a figure that "sign-Zac"h proponents view as insulting or stingy)?

Mikal Bridges at 22 was the only person Zach's age (I'll give him a mulligan on the year and still make the point) was the only player picked in the Top Ten and he was 10th. His contract is basically 5 years/$25MM or $5MM per.

Bad example.

I don't agree.

[SensiBull]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250600/Kings-Will-Pivot-To-Trades-With-$17M-In-Cap-Space

[musiqsoulchild]

Well all I'm saying is that if you want to discuss trade-ideas I'm open to discuss them. Otherwise it's just a philosophy and nothing else to discuss further. On the other hand what I advocate is not a philosophy. It's a specific plan. Do not commit any guaranteed salary to anyone right now unless they are a high-end player. That's the plan. Then wait, play the season,and reassess. The plan involves unknowns. There may be 20 different players both FAs and trade targets that I want to target after the season. Or zero. Maybe I'll want to max Lavine and Portis. my point is that at the current time I'm interested in discussing what we should currently do. And what I believe we should currently do is not offer Bobby Portis an extension and only offer one plus one extensions to David nawaba and Zach LaVine. If one or both of them sign an offer sheet then I will look at what it is and discuss that further.

And I am in full agreement with you. And, keep Lavine.

I want to keep Lavine also. I just don't want to preemptively offer him a contract longer than one plus one. If he signs an offer sheet for longer than that I will reassess.

Good lawd....isnt that what we are doing all along. So many posts and finger arthritis. I love you!!!

All I am saying is, just run the hypotheticals at 16 M, 17 M and 18 M for Zach. Add Dunn + Lauri + Hutch + Wendell for 18 Million. And 6 roster holds for 4 Million. Thats 36-38 Million in total for 5 players and 6 roster holds.

Leaving about 70 Million in cap space for 2 Max FA's.

Felicio / Portis / Valentine - bye bye.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Sam Smith:

Sorry, I'd rather have LaVine. Again, I get these requests fairly frequently to not resign LaVine, which is strange to me. OK, he's hasn't defended much in Minnesota, either. But here's an excellent athlete who is a very good three-point shooter, solid citizen, anxious to improve, a young 6-5 guard. Yes, he had ACL surgery and we hate that phrase, and he didn't finish last season, though who really knows with the artificial competition after the All-Star break. I find it hard to believe given his health situation LaVine gets any sort of break-the-bank offer as a restricted free agent. Teams are no longer allowed to say they'll match to scare off competitors or restricted free agents. If LaVine were in this draft, he'd have been a top 10 player. He's 23 years old and ready to have a full season again after missing much of the last two. He's a top athlete for a team long searching for more athletes and the biggest name in the Jimmy Butler trade. I cannot personally see a circumstance in which I would not want to work out a contract with LaVine. I think he's going to be a terrific player again.

I agree 110%.

There are definitely reasons to like Zach, but all this seems really thin to me. “He’d be a top 10 pick in this year’s draft”? He was the 13th pick in his own draft and is now a four year veteran. What does that even mean?

[musiqsoulchild]

Musiq, haven't you suggested numerous times offering him a four-year contract? If you haven't I feel like we've been arguing about absolutely nothing. All I've ever said is that I just want to offer him a OnePlus One deal. If he gets an offer sheet I'll evaluate what it is.

I said in the beginning of the thread that SIZE doesnt matter to me. Duration does. I think that also what she said, but thats another forum.

Now, I am OK with 4 years (and I have said this in the beginning of this mega thread as well) that Zach himself becomes part of a trade package...OR someone we can dump onto a team that has cap space.

For example: Say Kyrie is signing here. Then, I dont see Dunn as necessary.

So, we do a trade of Zach + Dunn for a young player + FRP.

[musiqsoulchild]

How many years did we wait for Niko to blow up? I think the Bulls are just waiting for the market to establish the price gif Lavine I don’t think the Bulls should be the first to offer when it gives these other teams the right t out bid and start a bidding war over LaVine


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They wont. They're seasoned players. We'll see what Zach's agent can bring in. If he cant bring in an offer sheet, then 1+ 1 is of course the best way to go ( Doug's plan).

Or, there's also the Cousins route that Zach can take.

He can ask to be moved to a contending team to play for cheap and get visibility as he prepares for 2019 free agency. A team that can use him is LA Lakers.

Man I love Doug but I've been beating the 1+1 offer to Zach nearly every day on this board for a calendar year.

My bad, credit is due to you as well for the 1+1

[SensiBull]

Everyone keeps talking about preserving cap room. Who are we going to spend this money on? Can someone please identify realistic players we can spend all this cap space on?

That's a falsely imposed burden of proof that no one has to meet to make the point.

Jayson Tatum was acquired with a pick that Boston acquired from Brooklyn.

Are you telling me that Danny Ainge had to know that he was going to be in a position to trade down for Jayson Tatum, a year in advance, and actually state Tatum by name to justify hoarding picks? He had to know who he was going to pick before he could justify accumulating picks? Otherwise, they shouldn't have made the trade?

Are you telling me that Philly's process worked because they knew in advance who would be available each year, one year in advance.

There is NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER for even the Bulls themselves, much less anyone on this board, to be able to name who the Bulls are going to pursue in free agency in order to justify what is, in effect, keeping their own money.

Why is their money supposed to be burning a hole in MY pocket?

Philadelphia's payroll for 2018/19 is $76MM. Miami's is $137MM. Who do you like better to make the Finals now that LeBron is gone?

Who is Philly saving IT'S money to get?

When is the last time Philly landed a 'big time free agent' (whatever the 'F' that is depending on who you ask and on what cycle of the moon is in phase when you pose the question)?

[SensiBull]

Who was the 'centrepiece' of this trade?

http://www.businessinsider.com/players-and-picks-in-celtics-nets-trade-2017-8/?r=AU&IR=T/#in-that-trade-the-celtics-received-the-third-overall-pick-in-this-years-draft-and-selected-jayson-tatum-they-also-received-a-future-first-round-pick-which-will-either-be-the-lakers-pick-in-2018-if-it-falls-among-picks-nos-2-5-or-the-better-selection-among-the-76ers-and-kings-picks-in-2019-28

[SensiBull]

Some people say that success is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

Others say something like, "Proper preparation prevents !$$ poor performance.

Either way, the part that is in your control is preparedness - the ability to make sure that IF the right situation comes along, you are in a position to act.

The military doesn't wait until a foreign nation declares war against it to start a fitness routine, combat training and a nutrition plan for its soldiers.

But this logic, you shouldn't even have a resume, much less be employed, until you have a final shopping list.

It's bogus reasoning. It has no place in the discussion. It's an extra hurdle in what is already the steeplechase. It's just designed to trip everyone up.

[dougthonus]

Jimmy and Kyrie want to play on a team in the East. This is true. I don't think Jimmy is coming back here. Not with Fred. Boston would be foolish NOT to offer Kyrie up in a trade for Kawhi. Kyrie already said he isn't signing an extension in Boston. I would bet more money on New York as the destination than Chicago.

What's to say Fred is here in a year?

New York doesn't have anywhere near enough caproom to bring in both guys even if they waive and stretch Noah they are over 20 million short.

[blicka]

And the best news for any bulls fan is that the kings would rather use their cap space to absorb a contract for a '19 1st round pick

The kings being interested in zach lavine was frightening.The hawks and kings arent gonna sign him so the ball is in garpax court

Lavine options are accept a 2 year deal(or short term)like niko did,sign a team friendly 4 year deal or take the qo.

Highly doubt a guy one year removed from knee surgery wants to take the qo , possible but unlikely. Take a short term deal see if he improves his defense,bball iq and plays within the system and becomes a better overall basketball player, if he does the bulls can extend him if not peace.

[gf2020hotmail]

This is so depressing
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-zach-lavine-free-agency-20180706-story.html

They know this, which is why they’ve proactively negotiated with LaVine in good faith with a strong, multiyear offer that could be in the $18 million range annually.

This could be a tragic contract for the Bulls. I'd rather not have Lavine at all, than for $18 million a year.

The logic about how the Bulls should get this over with sooner, for the sake of their reputation is so freaking dumb. Yeah, I am glad we locked Felicio down instantly last off-season so we could send a message to people.

[musiqsoulchild]

This is so depressing
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-zach-lavine-free-agency-20180706-story.html

They know this, which is why they’ve proactively negotiated with LaVine in good faith with a strong, multiyear offer that could be in the $18 million range annually.

This could be a tragic contract for the Bulls. I'd rather not have Lavine at all, than for $18 million a year.

The logic about how the Bulls should get this over with sooner, for the sake of their reputation is so freaking dumb. Yeah, I am glad we locked Felicio down instantly last off-season so we could send a message to people.

Glad you posted that article. Coming from KC, it clears up quite a few things for me as well.

Sounds like the Bulls view Lavine as having more value than what we are seeing in this thread. This makes for many, many future threads and circular debates.

[dougthonus]

Knicks and clippers can sign both. And playing with porzingis in new york city>>>>>> playing with lauri markannen in chicago

The Knicks are presently 30 million away from having room for both. They'd need to make pretty serious moves in order to get 2 max slots open and would need to basically strip down to Porzingis + 20-23m (depending how many minimum roster holds) to fit 2 max guys.

Meantime, the Bulls will have Dunn + Lauri + WCJ + Valentine + Hutchison + 2019 pick. That's a much stronger group.

And several reporters say kyrie wants to play in new york this has been a rumor for 5 years.

Could be. Kyrie might choose NY over anything due to his own world view. He forced his way off a championship team, so anything is possible with him.

clippers will have sga and robinson,avery bradley and jerry west's brain making decisions in l.a.

That's objectively a vastly worse core than what the Bulls have as you would project Lauri and WCJ to be better than everyone you mentioned and also fit positions and abilities that would vastly better complement Kyrie+Jimmy as well as the Clippers also being in the West not the East.

[TheJordanRule]

The Niko situation all over.

Which is why I want a hedge.

Hedging is a 1+1 deal featuring an insane one time over pay with a team option for that second year. You’re not hedging if you sign him to a long term deal that costs us seventeen million every season. You’re straight up committing.

TJR, I dont want Zach to blow up after we let him go. I think its very likely that happens. Its happening with Niko.

Thank you for explaining where you’re coming from Musiq.

Tbh don’t want to lose Lavine either. I see his massive upside. Do you see his massive downside, though? He’s not that far away from being a league minimum type of player. I want a deal that accounts for both his massive upside and massive downside. It can’t just be about his massive upside. Does a 1+1 work for you? It’s the only high dollar compromise that works for me. I’ll bite the bullet if it means we’ll still have the flexibility to move on if he’s closer to his floor than his ceiling by this time next year.
Niko was a different situation. He was already trending up from the season before with an 18.7 PER. He had no ACL injury concerns.
Lavine’s leverage when compared to Niko is that there is no Bobby at SG and that the team isn’t going to stop tanking just because Lavine is on the roster.

[dougthonus]

Highly doubt a guy one year removed from knee surgery wants to take the qo , possible but unlikely. Take a short term deal see if he improves his defense,bball iq and plays within the system and becomes a better overall basketball player, if he does the bulls can extend him if not peace.

LaVine has a ton of money from shoe deals, so he's not taking a life altering financial risk like some guys on the QO.

[League Circles]

This is so depressing
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-zach-lavine-free-agency-20180706-story.html

They know this, which is why they’ve proactively negotiated with LaVine in good faith with a strong, multiyear offer that could be in the $18 million range annually.

This could be a tragic contract for the Bulls. I'd rather not have Lavine at all, than for $18 million a year.

The logic about how the Bulls should get this over with sooner, for the sake of their reputation is so freaking dumb. Yeah, I am glad we locked Felicio down instantly last off-season so we could send a message to people.

Glad you posted that article. Coming from KC, it clears up quite a few things for me as well.

Sounds like the Bulls view Lavine as having more value than what we are seeing in this thread. This makes for many, many future threads and circular debates.

If I had to bet on the Bulls internal stance on this, I would bet that you're correct. Though it's worth noting that KC goes on to make this somewhat contradictory statement:

"But if their inclination is to match if LaVine signs a more lucrative offer sheet from the Kings — still a possibility — why not extend that offer now? Maybe the Bulls have. "

Which is it KC? Have the Bulls made an offer or not?

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

This is so depressing
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-zach-lavine-free-agency-20180706-story.html

They know this, which is why they’ve proactively negotiated with LaVine in good faith with a strong, multiyear offer that could be in the $18 million range annually.

This could be a tragic contract for the Bulls. I'd rather not have Lavine at all, than for $18 million a year.

The logic about how the Bulls should get this over with sooner, for the sake of their reputation is so freaking dumb. Yeah, I am glad we locked Felicio down instantly last off-season so we could send a message to people.

Seems good to me. Do it and move on.