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Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched

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Match? 4 yrs 78 mil

No, NO. Nononono
202
67%
Yes. We must.
98
33%
 
Total votes: 300

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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#801 » by StunnerKO » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:14 am

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
holv03 wrote:The people who are complaining about the Bulls matching Lavine 4 year 78M contract will be the same people cheering for him if he ends up being a star and taking us to the playoffs. Let's see how all this plays out first before complaining about the contract.

Bulls still have room for 2 MAX guys next off season and most likely they will end up landing 1 or none at all. Bulls are in a good position with good young players who have the potential to be all-stars.


We no longer have room for 2 max guys unless multiple players were moved(including Felicio and GL moving him).



But the chance to have two max players slot is there which he was alluding too if we wanted it.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#802 » by madvillian » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:14 am

dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.

**** it, it's my new sig. time to move on from that night derrick had.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#803 » by BahamaBull » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:14 am

SHO'NUFF wrote:Almost $25 million less than Otto Porter deal.


not worth that much $$ as well but at least Otto is a very good defender...
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#804 » by TheSuzerain » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:15 am

SHO'NUFF wrote:Almost $25 million less than Otto Porter deal.

Otto Porter had 3 more win shares last season than Lavine has in his entire career.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#805 » by holv03 » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:15 am

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
holv03 wrote:The people who are complaining about the Bulls matching Lavine 4 year 78M contract will be the same people cheering for him if he ends up being a star and taking us to the playoffs. Let's see how all this plays out first before complaining about the contract.

Bulls still have room for 2 MAX guys next off season and most likely they will end up landing 1 or none at all. Bulls are in a good position with good young players who have the potential to be all-stars.


We no longer have room for 2 max guys unless multiple players were moved(including Felicio and GL moving him).



We will have 45M in cap space that's enough to get 2 good players.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#806 » by kingkirk » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:15 am

Well, there goes the plan of 2 max contract slots in 2019...

I mean, it's still theoritcally possible, but if you believe the Bulls will continue to invest in LaVine, Markkanen, Dunn, WCJ, Hutchison and can't move the Felicio deal, the Bulls won't have 2 max slots. And that's before considering cap holds for Portis, Grant, Payne, as well as money for Valentine, plus roster charges and future pick salaries.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#807 » by Ben » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:15 am

Benedict Miller wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
Benedict Miller wrote:I'll try to keep an open mind. It always hurts losing talent for nothing.

We wouldn't have lost him for nothing. We would have kept $20 million in cap room. That's not nothing.


I hear you. Cap room for who though? Not everyone is lined up to come play for the Bulls.


In truth, it only matters if we want to try to compete in the next year or two (which is almost certainly way, way too soon unless all of the pieces line up and we can persuade Jimmy to come back for a non-supermax and to bring Kyrie with him rather than Jimmy just joining Kyrie in Boston after they move a piece or two). Otherwise, we need to stay bad for quite a while. I could respect us trying to stay bad for quite a while. True, the league has taken an anti-tanking stance with regard to the lottery balls that the Bulls front office should have seen coming before they decided to trade Butler, dump everyone else, and tank. But we still need to take our medicine and get really bad for a long time before we can hope to become really good. (And after all, wasn't that the standard that made many fans support trading Butler? The notion that if we can't be a title contender we're nothing?)

Retaining Lavine at $20M/year for a 4-year period just contributes to a culture of mediocrity. He could score enough points to win a few games, but is very unlikely to be great in the way that would win MANY games. And that kind of mediocrity will prevent us from being bad enough to improve slowly but surely, a la Sam Hinkie (even if the rules have-- predictably-- changed). He's like Ron Mercer. Do you want to rebuild around Ron Mercer? Do you want to bet that another GM will take Ron Mercer off your hands once he's shown himself to be, well, Ron Mercer?

I would much rather use up our capspace on a bunch of solid guys on solid, short term contracts, who are likely to be tradeable or simply to expire, than to fall prey to "sunk cost" mentality and match on a $20M guy who's not solid, who's long term, and who's therefore all the less likely to be tradable.

Of course you know that I'll be here eating crow if Zach proves me wrong a year or more down the line. It's about the team much more than it's about me. But while I would much rather be happy than right, I suspect that a year or two down the line I'll be unhappily right along with my like-minded homies.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#808 » by madvillian » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:16 am

TheSuzerain wrote:
SHO'NUFF wrote:Almost $25 million less than Otto Porter deal.

Otto Porter had 3 more win shares last season than Lavine has in his entire career.


We signed rookie year THJR.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#809 » by SHO'NUFF » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:16 am

TheSuzerain wrote:
SHO'NUFF wrote:Almost $25 million less than Otto Porter deal.

Otto Porter had 3 more win shares last season than Lavine has in his entire career.



Still not worth the contract Porter got.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#810 » by boundbymusic » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:17 am

holv03 wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
holv03 wrote:The people who are complaining about the Bulls matching Lavine 4 year 78M contract will be the same people cheering for him if he ends up being a star and taking us to the playoffs. Let's see how all this plays out first before complaining about the contract.

Bulls still have room for 2 MAX guys next off season and most likely they will end up landing 1 or none at all. Bulls are in a good position with good young players who have the potential to be all-stars.


We no longer have room for 2 max guys unless multiple players were moved(including Felicio and GL moving him).



We will have 45M in cap space that's enough to get 2 good players.


2 good players isn’t the same as 2 max players.
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Re: New poll: match Lavine's offer sheet or not 

Post#811 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:17 am

GimmeDat wrote:
madvillian wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:I'm pretty upset about the price, but I think you have to tentatively match. Reports are it's a front-loaded 4/78, it's an overpay but it's not a crippling deal.

At worst, he's an overpaid but productive 6th man. At best, he lives up to his contract and he's an All-Star level talent.

But this deal gives us the same cap hit as our actual offer apparently was (4/72). We'll have plenty of space to make moves going forward. I wouldn't act too dramatic about it all.


At worst he's a G League talent demanding a starting gig and taking up a significant amount of your cap space. That's not acceptable.


You can't genuinely think Lavine is a G-League talent, that's just ridiculous.

He's a 20 point a game scorer, who, discounting a 24 game sample last season, was an efficient shooter on a high volume of 3 point attempts.

It's like saying Bulls-era Boozer should've been getting DNP's.


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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#812 » by Ben » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:17 am

holv03 wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
holv03 wrote:The people who are complaining about the Bulls matching Lavine 4 year 78M contract will be the same people cheering for him if he ends up being a star and taking us to the playoffs. Let's see how all this plays out first before complaining about the contract.

Bulls still have room for 2 MAX guys next off season and most likely they will end up landing 1 or none at all. Bulls are in a good position with good young players who have the potential to be all-stars.


We no longer have room for 2 max guys unless multiple players were moved(including Felicio and GL moving him).



We will have 45M in cap space that's enough to get 2 good players.


It'll be enough to get two players of the same market value as Zach Lavine, if tonight is any indication of market value. Happy now?
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#813 » by League Circles » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:17 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:I am trying to wrap my head around people being ok with offering him 18 mil. But completely outrageous for 19.5?

Its just semantics at that point of cost.

Saying you dont want Zach back would make more sense.

For most of us it's the years, not the money we object to. I wanted only one year guaranteed so I would have declined to match. Though I would have offered him the max for one year with team option for year two, and it's conceivable he'd have taken that over this offer sheet.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#814 » by kingkirk » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:17 am

holv03 wrote:The people who are complaining about the Bulls matching Lavine 4 year 78M contract will be the same people cheering for him if he ends up being a star and taking us to the playoffs.


You say this as if it is a bad thing for someone to be logical and change their opinion on something should the variables change.

It's possible to think the deal is bad now, but in the event it does become good, to then reconsider a position.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#815 » by DuckIII » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:17 am

My reaction to this is, well, alright then. I really can’t seem to find a reason to be either angry or supportive. I have no idea how to feel about Zach Lavine.

Someone, please, give me an emotion.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#816 » by Dez » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:18 am

I guess I'll be one of the few that won't have the overreaction hissy fit.

Would have liked him a bit cheaper but still not mad because despite what people think, this doesn't hamper us in the slightest.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#817 » by madvillian » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:18 am

DuckIII wrote:My reaction to this is, well, alright then. I really can’t seem to find a reason to be either angry or supportive. I have no idea how to feel about Zach Lavine.

Someone, please, give me an emotion.


consider this move relative to selling a 2nd round pick and trading Jimmy Butler a year prior.

:crazy:
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#818 » by DanTown8587 » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:19 am

SHO'NUFF wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
SHO'NUFF wrote:Almost $25 million less than Otto Porter deal.

Otto Porter had 3 more win shares last season than Lavine has in his entire career.



Still not worth the contract Porter got.


Ok. THey're both bad deals.

Comparing Zach's deal to ANYONE elses is stupid.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#819 » by SHO'NUFF » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:21 am

DanTown8587 wrote:
SHO'NUFF wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Otto Porter had 3 more win shares last season than Lavine has in his entire career.



Still not worth the contract Porter got.


Ok. THey're both bad deals.

Comparing Zach's deal to ANYONE elses is stupid.


Naaa. Not stupid.
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Re: Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched 

Post#820 » by DuckIII » Sat Jul 7, 2018 3:21 am

madvillian wrote:
DuckIII wrote:My reaction to this is, well, alright then. I really can’t seem to find a reason to be either angry or supportive. I have no idea how to feel about Zach Lavine.

Someone, please, give me an emotion.


consider this move relative to selling a 2nd round pick and trading Jimmy Butler a year prior.

:crazy:


I don’t follow. I still love the Butler trade like it was one of my children.
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