Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched

[dawhizz]

Getting ready to see those Allen Houston lines in the box score - 20/1/1 on 30 shots.

[TheFinishSniper]

From the general board:

David Griffin was on his SiriusXM show today talking about this - he said this deal was about Sacramento doing a favor for LaVine’s agent who was having a hard time getting what he wanted from Chicago.

Also said the deal had a really team favorable clause in it to protect against LaVines knee having a problem, so it was very “matchable” to the point that they knew Chicago would do it. Basically Sac really never had any intention of signing LaVine.

Just interesting stuff.

Great stuff here. Had a feeling this was it. This is why this league sucks so bad. Superteams, friends playing with friends, actually demanding things without prove it, scrubs getting paid, people doing favors to each other so one day they can get favor back.

[Stratmaster]

From the general board:

David Griffin was on his SiriusXM show today talking about this - he said this deal was about Sacramento doing a favor for LaVine’s agent who was having a hard time getting what he wanted from Chicago.

Also said the deal had a really team favorable clause in it to protect against LaVines knee having a problem, so it was very “matchable” to the point that they knew Chicago would do it. Basically Sac really never had any intention of signing LaVine.

Just interesting stuff.

LOL.

Un-f***ing-believable.

Yeah... but no. No GM is putting 20 million dollars on the line for a player they don't want just to try to bid up the opposing team. That's biggest bunch of b******* I've ever heard.

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[Kurt Heimlich]

From the general board:

David Griffin was on his SiriusXM show today talking about this - he said this deal was about Sacramento doing a favor for LaVine’s agent who was having a hard time getting what he wanted from Chicago.

Also said the deal had a really team favorable clause in it to protect against LaVines knee having a problem, so it was very “matchable” to the point that they knew Chicago would do it. Basically Sac really never had any intention of signing LaVine.

Just interesting stuff.

LOL.

Un-f***ing-believable.

GarPax getting played like a fiddle, what else is new?

Add that to the Hutchison promise that everybody knew about the minute it happened, do the Bulls front office realize that knowledge is power and can be used as leverage against them? They're negotiating nincompoops, in free agency and in trades (want a 2nd rounder? sure take three! style negotiating). Pax is probably an above average drafter, but my god they are the worst with player/agent/trade interactions.

[Indomitable]

From the general board:

I don't buy that for an instant, no front office is that insane. What front office is going to put 80 million on the table to do a favor for an agent?

If true one of the crazier things I've ever heard.....

The Kings. And the Bulls were stupid enough to match. Two idiotic franchises playing footsie.

The Bulls are far and away better then them. I understand you are disappointed but come on.

[Indomitable]

Agreed. Too much focus being put on last year in a throw away season where he played 20 games coming off the ACL injury. By all accounts, he looks like he’s recovering well and didnt lose explosiveness. I dont mind paying 20 mil a year for a guy who can average 20-25 points per game for us and fits very well next to Dunn. Averaged 19 ppg at 22 years old as the 3rd option on his team. Everyone agreed when we got him he has the talent to be an elite scorer so why let him walk? Furthermore he’s well liked around the league and can help in recruiting efforts next offseason. No one is gonna sign with us if there isnt talent on the roster.

He has played 4 years in the NBA now.

His PER by year 11.3, 14.3, 14.6, 14.6
On off rating -10.1, -6.9, -4.3, -6.7

Last year really doesn't look like a flyer. What is really striking is how regularly he makes his teams worse when he gets on the floor and that's striking because he has exclusively played on bad teams. Effectively he makes some of the worst teams in the NBA look even worse, by a good bit, when he comes in.

He really doesn't fit with Dunn because he doesn't move well off ball. Not sure it matters because Dunn isn't particularly good either.

Excellent post. Last year was not an outlier for him, he really is that bad. He made more shots before (probably due to better lift and finishing pre-acl) but everything else was the same awfulness he’s exhibited for 4 years.

Last year was the first year he had got worst. He had grown every year until then.

He will be better and I believe he will improve again.
His TS had improve every year until last year. He is not a star but he is better then last season. His numbers improved every year until the ACL.

[sami71]

From the general board:

David Griffin was on his SiriusXM show today talking about this - he said this deal was about Sacramento doing a favor for LaVine’s agent who was having a hard time getting what he wanted from Chicago.

Also said the deal had a really team favorable clause in it to protect against LaVines knee having a problem, so it was very “matchable” to the point that they knew Chicago would do it. Basically Sac really never had any intention of signing LaVine.

Just interesting stuff.

I absolutely do not believe in this. Not a chance in hell this is real.

There is all sorts of childish stuff going on in sports, but that is so far beyond the line of disrespect towards another GM that it would not be done. It is a different thing to screw the other team for cap space than just screw them to suck up on an agent.

No way.

Besides. Garpax would have known and called the bluff. Surely.

Right?

Right?

[League Circles]

I just hope a reporter asks Paxson:

"John, over 70% of the fanbase opposed matching this contract in a recent poll because they want to save the cap space to try to sign good players instead. What would you tell this strong majority of Bulls fans who opposed making this struggling player such a focus of such a bad team for the next 4 years?"

"I would tell them they don't have a clue how this business works, or what they are talking about. Especially those who thought Lavine value should be the MLE or the vet minimum" (laughing ensues)

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Worked pretty well when they let a drastically better version of LaVine go in 2009 in Ben Gordon. Very similar circumstances but a much better player Gordon was.

And again, there is no such thing as "should be". I knew Lavine getting an offer like this was a significant possibility, and wanted them to let him walk if it was more than one year guaranteed. Because of how much he and the Bulls both suck at this time.

[coldfish]

I just hope a reporter asks Paxson:

"John, over 70% of the fanbase opposed matching this contract in a recent poll because they want to save the cap space to try to sign good players instead. What would you tell this strong majority of Bulls fans who opposed making this struggling player such a focus of such a bad team for the next 4 years?"

"I would tell them they don't have a clue how this business works, or what they are talking about. Especially those who thought Lavine value should be the MLE or the vet minimum" (laughing ensues)

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I'm somewhat stunned you are on this side of the argument. Lavine is normally everything you hate in a player. Low IQ, low efficiency chucker, doesn't move off the ball and doesn't even try on defense. Add in some salty shots at the Bulls FO recently and this is basically the prototypical "I f'ing hate this guy" for you.

Regardless, this is kind of a watershed moment. Right now the Bulls fanbase has largely stuck its pole in the sand that this was the wrong move. Its not just a few naysayers that can be viewed as broken clocks always criticizing. This is more than a 2:1 margin saying no.

If the Bulls got this right, kudos to them. Not only were they smarter than the fanbase but a lot of the media experts too.

If they got it wrong . . . then they really don't know what the hell they are doing because it was obvious to even casual fans.

[IrishBeatdown]

I just hope a reporter asks Paxson:

"John, over 70% of the fanbase opposed matching this contract in a recent poll because they want to save the cap space to try to sign good players instead. What would you tell this strong majority of Bulls fans who opposed making this struggling player such a focus of such a bad team for the next 4 years?"

"I would tell them they don't have a clue how this business works, or what they are talking about. Especially those who thought Lavine value should be the MLE or the vet minimum" (laughing ensues)

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I'm somewhat stunned you are on this side of the argument. Lavine is normally everything you hate in a player. Low IQ, low efficiency chucker, doesn't move off the ball and doesn't even try on defense. Add in some salty shots at the Bulls FO recently and this is basically the prototypical "I f'ing hate this guy" for you.

Regardless, this is kind of a watershed moment. Right now the Bulls fanbase has largely stuck its pole in the sand that this was the wrong move. Its not just a few naysayers that can be viewed as broken clocks always criticizing. This is more than a 2:1 margin saying no.

If the Bulls got this right, kudos to them. Not only were they smarter than the fanbase but a lot of the media experts too.

If they got it wrong . . . then they really don't know what the hell they are doing because it was obvious to even casual fans.

I'm not even going to single out the Lavine supporters, because at the end of the day they are going to be more disappointed than I am.

At the end of the day, its on the front office and Reinsdorf (either) unwilling to hold our co-GM's (who the **** thought this idea would be good, just a dereliction of responsibility) responsible for their decisions. Which GM, or GM's, in our case, have job security after 15 years with just one ECF appearance and numerous under performing coaches and players? They lucked into the #1 pick and Derrick Rose, everyone drafts Rose that year, lets not discount that. Even I could be GM of the Bulls, draft the most polished college senior every year?

[madvillian]

This FO has all the conviction of the chess club leader asking out the prom queen. Pick a **** path and walk it. All indications are that this was a "1 year tank" which isn't even really a **** tank and the "one year tank" netted you the #7th and #22 picks and oh you also traded your best remaining asset in Mirotic.

[Bulls_Fan]

This FO has all the conviction of the chess club leader asking out the prom queen. Pick a **** path and walk it. All indications are that this was a "1 year tank" which isn't even really a **** tank and the "one year tank" netted you the #7th and #22 picks and oh you also traded your best remaining asset in Mirotic.

Half-assing the 'rebuild' will doom this team for 5 years. Only way we get out of it quickly is if Lauri becomes a star.

All we are doing now is locking up our average players. What are we going to pay Bobby?

Pax is playing checkers not chess.

[BoogieTime]

You know what makes this even worse? The Kings are going to be one this franchise's biggest cap space competitors next year. Every big salary on their roster expires next summer. Now they are pretty much guaranteed to have way more cap room than the Bulls.

I’m not being facetious, but in all seriousness, they are at a huge disadvantage if they are trying to attract talent to live in Sacramento.

Live in Sacramento? A mid sized diverse Californian city with great weather and close to many attractions (Pacific/Tahoe/Bay Area/Napa etc), without the traffic of the metropolises? Subjective, though I personally don’t mind it here. A lot of players do like bigger markets, and anticipate more off the court financial opportunities in them. But Sacramento has a great new arena.

You mean the reputation of the team and owner? True. Hope Divacs replacement will inspire a bit more confidence

[Stratmaster]

I just hope a reporter asks Paxson:

"John, over 70% of the fanbase opposed matching this contract in a recent poll because they want to save the cap space to try to sign good players instead. What would you tell this strong majority of Bulls fans who opposed making this struggling player such a focus of such a bad team for the next 4 years?"

"I would tell them they don't have a clue how this business works, or what they are talking about. Especially those who thought Lavine value should be the MLE or the vet minimum" (laughing ensues)

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I'm somewhat stunned you are on this side of the argument. Lavine is normally everything you hate in a player. Low IQ, low efficiency chucker, doesn't move off the ball and doesn't even try on defense. Add in some salty shots at the Bulls FO recently and this is basically the prototypical "I f'ing hate this guy" for you.

Regardless, this is kind of a watershed moment. Right now the Bulls fanbase has largely stuck its pole in the sand that this was the wrong move. Its not just a few naysayers that can be viewed as broken clocks always criticizing. This is more than a 2:1 margin saying no.

If the Bulls got this right, kudos to them. Not only were they smarter than the fanbase but a lot of the media experts too.

If they got it wrong . . . then they really don't know what the hell they are doing because it was obvious to even casual fans.

I don't like lavine's comments. However it was in the middle of a negotiation. Both sides were making comments to position themselves better. If he continues to make statements like that outside of that context, trust me, I'll be the first one on here raging against him.

The low IQ comments seem completely based around his shot selection last season. The chucker comment also seems to be based mostly on that 24 game sample. I believe Zack was told that he was going to have limited minutes and games and I believe that factored into the way he played. If you saw my first comment, I said that it looked like 24 games of pickup basketball and that now he was going to have to show us what he could actually do for the Chicago Bulls.

But all of that is only a small portion of what goes into making a decision on whether to match this offer. Everyone knew the Bulls were going to have to pay him when the trade was made. This is all been Much Ado About Nothing.

As far as the fan base, real GM is not representative of the Chicago Bulls fan base. 70% of this board dislikes the front office so much that they will crap on any move the Bulls make. Anytime a move the Bulls make doesn't go perfectly it proves "the fanbase" correct. Of course, we never seem to acknowledge that every move the Bulls have ever made that actually turned out decent then would also prove that 70% of us are idiots.

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[Stratmaster]

"I would tell them they don't have a clue how this business works, or what they are talking about. Especially those who thought Lavine value should be the MLE or the vet minimum" (laughing ensues)

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I'm somewhat stunned you are on this side of the argument. Lavine is normally everything you hate in a player. Low IQ, low efficiency chucker, doesn't move off the ball and doesn't even try on defense. Add in some salty shots at the Bulls FO recently and this is basically the prototypical "I f'ing hate this guy" for you.

Regardless, this is kind of a watershed moment. Right now the Bulls fanbase has largely stuck its pole in the sand that this was the wrong move. Its not just a few naysayers that can be viewed as broken clocks always criticizing. This is more than a 2:1 margin saying no.

If the Bulls got this right, kudos to them. Not only were they smarter than the fanbase but a lot of the media experts too.

If they got it wrong . . . then they really don't know what the hell they are doing because it was obvious to even casual fans.

I'm not even going to single out the Lavine supporters, because at the end of the day they are going to be more disappointed than I am.

At the end of the day, its on the front office and Reinsdorf (either) unwilling to hold our co-GM's (who the **** thought this idea would be good, just a dereliction of responsibility) responsible for their decisions. Which GM, or GM's, in our case, have job security after 15 years with just one ECF appearance and numerous under performing coaches and players? They lucked into the #1 pick and Derrick Rose, everyone drafts Rose that year, lets not discount that. Even I could be GM of the Bulls, draft the most polished college senior every year?

Respectfully, I have heard those same words a million times. Those same comments appear on multiple threads of real GM every freaking day. If we took out posts like this from this thread it would probably be about 6 pages long.

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[Ctownbulls]

Bulls can luck into a contender...they will never build one.

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[Stratmaster]

I just hope a reporter asks Paxson:

"John, over 70% of the fanbase opposed matching this contract in a recent poll because they want to save the cap space to try to sign good players instead. What would you tell this strong majority of Bulls fans who opposed making this struggling player such a focus of such a bad team for the next 4 years?"

"I would tell them they don't have a clue how this business works, or what they are talking about. Especially those who thought Lavine value should be the MLE or the vet minimum" (laughing ensues)

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Worked pretty well when they let a drastically better version of LaVine go in 2009 in Ben Gordon. Very similar circumstances but a much better player Gordon was.

And again, there is no such thing as "should be". I knew Lavine getting an offer like this was a significant possibility, and wanted them to let him walk if it was more than one year guaranteed. Because of how much he and the Bulls both suck at this time.

There is no world in which Ben Gordon is a drastically better version of what Zach LaVine should be by the time he is done, unless the ACL turns into a Derrick Rose type series of injuries. Gordon was extremely overrated as a Chicago Bull. That was my take when Gordon was putting up empty numbers for the Bulls. Lavine is severely underrated, and he hasn't even really played yet.

It would have been complete Insanity to let LaVine walk without him ever really even playing as a bull. If it any point the Bulls decide he is not part of the future, unless he is just out of the league bad there will be a trading partner available for him. Everybody wants a guy who can shoot like him.

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[GetBuLLish]

Watching two of the dumbest franchises in the league battle it out to see who can overpay a below average player...now that's comedy, fellas.

[Houston_Bulls]

I worry about the message this contract sends. It tells Lavine he's already a great player, that he has already made it. Further, at 20 million a year, he knows the Bulls will be reluctant to bench him unless he really stinks up the joint.

[weneeda2guard]

Some fans are just hell bent on saying he is bad without any context. Then when he posts like a 22/5/5 season, people will throw some stupid metric out there to try and justify its still not good. smh

So the question to you fans is, what does Zach Lavine have to do this season to justify the contract in your eyes?

Become Durant or LeBron james.