Vlade goes Hinkie with cap space

[winter_mute_13]

FWIW, Pritchard said in a press conference (Tyreke and McBuckets signing) that the trade market was softer than he expected, that's why he opted to use cap space on FAs than on trades. Take that for what you will.

I generally agree with HW that cap space is more valuable BEFORE FA, not after the first wave has signed. Which isn't to say that Sacto, Atlanta, et al can't still get a nice deal, but it seems likely that teams with salary dumping needs aren't willing to pay a high price. Put it this way - would Dallas for example have opted to burn 20m+ in cap space on DeAndre if there were attractive deals available for taking bad money?

The stretch provision also changes the equation for teams that need to cut salary. At the cost of future dead money, it's a relatively easy and painless way to reduce payroll with immediate effect. I think there's a strong likelihood that OKC, for example, will go down this road with Melo.

[babyjax13]

I think LA needs to add Hart to that package and take back Shumpert instead of Randolph. #2 makes sense for Sacramento, but if I'm Denver I keep what is likely to be a lottery pick and stretch Faried or demand that it's Plumlee instead of Faried (and probably attack Hernangomez and Beasley to offset the extra year). I don't like the third one. You are going to have to pay Oubre + you'll be paying Mahimni. I'd want Washington's 2019 and 2021 picks.

Well I'd be happy to take those picks, but I'm not so sure Washington would pay such a steep price.

But I think all three teams involved in the trade would be willing to listen and offer up a few things potentially that the Kings should take advantage of.

Well then you'd effectively be paying $16 million + Oubre's salary for the privilege of having Oubre. I think we underestimate how harmful bad contracts are, even for a rebuilding team.

[The Beam King]

Also Zbo can still play, Deng is rather useless.

To be fair Zbo plays zero defense nowadays

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True. But Deng plays zero basketball. At least Zbo is a highly potent offer sive player at the age of 37. He has Something to offer.

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[NoZoLakers]

ill take op offer for koufus...la doesnt need zbo and salary difference doesnt warrant 2 1st either but for koufus i would give you 2 1st as for that poster offering to take ingram or no dice, sac isnt the only team with cap space so dont go pushing take it or leave it offers, la can stretch deng and have more than enough for a max next yr

I know it's tough, but remember with Lebron those picks should be 20+

You still get around 6.5 million of space immediately.

Lakers project as an 8th seed right now. That’s a 16 or 17 pick. However, I agree that the Kings ought to hold out to completely destroy the Lakers in a Deng dump. Rival and all.

Ingram, Hart, and Deng for Shumpert. Or something close to that. Lakers in position to own FA 2019, Kings win a lopsided deal with a hated rival. Win-win IMO.

[The Beam King]

FWIW, Pritchard said in a press conference (Tyreke and McBuckets signing) that the trade market was softer than he expected, that's why he opted to use cap space on FAs than on trades. Take that for what you will.

I generally agree with HW that cap space is more valuable BEFORE FA, not after the first wave has signed. Which isn't to say that Sacto, Atlanta, et al can't still get a nice deal, but it seems likely that teams with salary dumping needs aren't willing to pay a high price. Put it this way - would Dallas for example have opted to burn 20m+ in cap space on DeAndre if there were attractive deals available for taking bad money?

The stretch provision also changes the equation for teams that need to cut salary. At the cost of future dead money, it's a relatively easy and painless way to reduce payroll with immediate effect. I think there's a strong likelihood that OKC, for example, will go down this road with Melo.

So if that's true..... could it be that the Kings and Hawks are reading the market and setting themselvrs up for may/June next year? Getting a Kings ransom right before the biggest free agent signing bonanza this side of the summer of 2016?

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[The Rebel]

Here is a list of the transactions that the 76ers have done that were based on them taking a salary dump from teams since 2014-2015 (used Basketball reference)
July 3rd, 2018

Traded cash considerations to the Denver Nuggets for Wilson Chandler, a 2021 2nd round pick and a swap option on 2022 2nd round Nuggets pick.

July 15, 2016
Traded Chukwudiebere Maduabum to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Sasha Kaun and cash considerations.

November 1, 2016
Traded Jerami Grant to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Ersan Ilyasova and a 2020 1st round draft pick. (2020 1st-Rd pick is Top-20 protected & turns into 2022 & 2023 2nd-rd picks if not conveyed)

February 22, 2017
Traded Ersan Ilyasova and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Alpha Kaba was later selected) to the Atlanta Hawks for Tiago Splitter, a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Sterling Brown was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Mathias Lessort was later selected).

July 9, 2015
Traded Arturas Gudaitis, Luka Mitrovic and a 2017 1st round draft pick (De'Aaron Fox was later selected) to the Sacramento Kings for Carl Landry, Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, a 2017 1st round draft pick (Jayson Tatum was later selected) and a 2019 1st round draft pick. (76ers exercised right to swap picks in 2017 NBA Draft, taking #3 overall pick and sending back #5 overall pick)

February 19, 2015
Traded Cenk Akyol and cash to the Denver Nuggets for Chukwudiebere Maduabum, JaVale McGee and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Furkan Korkmaz was later selected).

December 19, 2014
As part of a 3-team trade, the Philadelphia 76ers traded Alexey Shved to the Houston Rockets; the Houston Rockets traded Troy Daniels, cash, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Rakeem Christmas was later selected) and a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Houston Rockets traded Sergei Lishouk and a 2015 2nd round draft pick (J.P. Tokoto was later selected) to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Corey Brewer to the Houston Rockets; and the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Ronny Turiaf to the Philadelphia 76ers. (Top-45 protected and not conveyed) (Minnesota's 2nd-round pick in 2015 and 2016 are protected for picks 50-60 and 31-45, respectively.)


When you start researching salary dumps, the market around the start of free agency seems to be higher price for salary, but when you do research of how many contracts/players are dumped and the price, it ends up being basically the same price year round. The only big salary dump outside of the Kings 76ers screw up where the Kings thought they were going to sign big names, was the Warriors Jazz trade where the Warriors traded 2 1st round picks and a 2nd to dump $36 million in contracts which seems to be the normal price.

[the_process]

What would SAC want to take on Bayless? Gotta bunch of 2nds and young guys available.

Not sure what purpose giving up assets to get rid of him would fill at this point unless it's part of a 3-way deal.

Not be limited by salary matching when a Kawhi deal gets done in a few weeks. But yeah, it could happen all at the same time as a 3 way deal.

[markjay]

There is not really an either/or. The Lakers either have a lot of incentive to move Deng (if they need the cap space this year) or no incentive (if they don’t need the space). As of today, they don’t seem to need the cap space this year and may not even need it next year. (They could stretch Deng in 2019 and still have room for a max contract). If I’m the Lakers, I’m not giving up anything to dump Deng since there seems little reason to do so now.

[HartfordWhalers]

Here is a list of the transactions that the 76ers have done that were based on them taking a salary dump from teams since 2014-2015 (used Basketball reference)
July 3rd, 2018

Traded cash considerations to the Denver Nuggets for Wilson Chandler, a 2021 2nd round pick and a swap option on 2022 2nd round Nuggets pick.

July 15, 2016
Traded Chukwudiebere Maduabum to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Sasha Kaun and cash considerations.

November 1, 2016
Traded Jerami Grant to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Ersan Ilyasova and a 2020 1st round draft pick. (2020 1st-Rd pick is Top-20 protected & turns into 2022 & 2023 2nd-rd picks if not conveyed)

February 22, 2017
Traded Ersan Ilyasova and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Alpha Kaba was later selected) to the Atlanta Hawks for Tiago Splitter, a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Sterling Brown was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Mathias Lessort was later selected).

July 9, 2015
Traded Arturas Gudaitis, Luka Mitrovic and a 2017 1st round draft pick (De'Aaron Fox was later selected) to the Sacramento Kings for Carl Landry, Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, a 2017 1st round draft pick (Jayson Tatum was later selected) and a 2019 1st round draft pick. (76ers exercised right to swap picks in 2017 NBA Draft, taking #3 overall pick and sending back #5 overall pick)

February 19, 2015
Traded Cenk Akyol and cash to the Denver Nuggets for Chukwudiebere Maduabum, JaVale McGee and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Furkan Korkmaz was later selected).

December 19, 2014
As part of a 3-team trade, the Philadelphia 76ers traded Alexey Shved to the Houston Rockets; the Houston Rockets traded Troy Daniels, cash, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Rakeem Christmas was later selected) and a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Houston Rockets traded Sergei Lishouk and a 2015 2nd round draft pick (J.P. Tokoto was later selected) to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Corey Brewer to the Houston Rockets; and the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Ronny Turiaf to the Philadelphia 76ers. (Top-45 protected and not conveyed) (Minnesota's 2nd-round pick in 2015 and 2016 are protected for picks 50-60 and 31-45, respectively.)


When you start researching salary dumps, the market around the start of free agency seems to be higher price for salary, but when you do research of how many contracts/players are dumped and the price, it ends up being basically the same price year round. The only big salary dump outside of the Kings 76ers screw up where the Kings thought they were going to sign big names, was the Warriors Jazz trade where the Warriors traded 2 1st round picks and a 2nd to dump $36 million in contracts which seems to be the normal price.

I’m confused here by the inconsistency with your takes.

You had Wilson Chandler as worth his contract before the trade and posted that stance.

Now he is one of two trades done before free agency was finished and seems to be using to suggest that the price of dumping isn’t higher beforehand. This is at odds with Chandler as a neutral value player.

You complained about how inconsistent people’s takes are when Nuggets are traded before and after the trade on boards such as this one but here seem to be doing just that.

[LightTheBeam]

Here is a list of the transactions that the 76ers have done that were based on them taking a salary dump from teams since 2014-2015 (used Basketball reference)
July 3rd, 2018

Traded cash considerations to the Denver Nuggets for Wilson Chandler, a 2021 2nd round pick and a swap option on 2022 2nd round Nuggets pick.

July 15, 2016
Traded Chukwudiebere Maduabum to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Sasha Kaun and cash considerations.

November 1, 2016
Traded Jerami Grant to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Ersan Ilyasova and a 2020 1st round draft pick. (2020 1st-Rd pick is Top-20 protected & turns into 2022 & 2023 2nd-rd picks if not conveyed)

February 22, 2017
Traded Ersan Ilyasova and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Alpha Kaba was later selected) to the Atlanta Hawks for Tiago Splitter, a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Sterling Brown was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Mathias Lessort was later selected).

July 9, 2015
Traded Arturas Gudaitis, Luka Mitrovic and a 2017 1st round draft pick (De'Aaron Fox was later selected) to the Sacramento Kings for Carl Landry, Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, a 2017 1st round draft pick (Jayson Tatum was later selected) and a 2019 1st round draft pick. (76ers exercised right to swap picks in 2017 NBA Draft, taking #3 overall pick and sending back #5 overall pick)

February 19, 2015
Traded Cenk Akyol and cash to the Denver Nuggets for Chukwudiebere Maduabum, JaVale McGee and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Furkan Korkmaz was later selected).

December 19, 2014
As part of a 3-team trade, the Philadelphia 76ers traded Alexey Shved to the Houston Rockets; the Houston Rockets traded Troy Daniels, cash, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Rakeem Christmas was later selected) and a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Houston Rockets traded Sergei Lishouk and a 2015 2nd round draft pick (J.P. Tokoto was later selected) to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Corey Brewer to the Houston Rockets; and the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Ronny Turiaf to the Philadelphia 76ers. (Top-45 protected and not conveyed) (Minnesota's 2nd-round pick in 2015 and 2016 are protected for picks 50-60 and 31-45, respectively.)


When you start researching salary dumps, the market around the start of free agency seems to be higher price for salary, but when you do research of how many contracts/players are dumped and the price, it ends up being basically the same price year round. The only big salary dump outside of the Kings 76ers screw up where the Kings thought they were going to sign big names, was the Warriors Jazz trade where the Warriors traded 2 1st round picks and a 2nd to dump $36 million in contracts which seems to be the normal price.

I’m confused here by the inconsistency with your takes.

You had Wilson Chandler as worth his contract before the trade and posted that stance.

Now he is one of two trades done before free agency was finished and seems to be using to suggest that the price of dumping isn’t higher beforehand. This is at odds with Chandler as a neutral value player.

You complained about how inconsistent people’s takes are when Nuggets are traded before and after the trade on boards such as this one but here seem to be doing just that.

So you've decided to ignore his overall point and try to poke holes in 1 small personal opinion detail. Great to know.

[HartfordWhalers]

So you've decided to ignore his overall point and try to poke holes in 1 small personal opinion detail. Great to know.

His overall point was the price isn't higher at the start of free agency. The 1 small hole I poked was the only deal he used to show that. Which if you eliminate leaves a set of deals showing the price highest before free agency.

You guys carry on though, cause I don't think any more details matter.

[Slava]

Best time to take on dumps is during the draft when teams are game planning on who to target in free agency and you might even pick up valuable draft picks that you can make selections with. Now most teams have settled onto their rosters and the free agents left on the board aren't attractive enough to shed money either. Teams like Denver and Charlotte have already made their moves to get below luxury tax threshold.

I'd trade two picks for dumping Deng if I was getting cap space, not one less year on the deal with a player who doesn't even fit the offense in LA.

[LightTheBeam]

So you've decided to ignore his overall point and try to poke holes in 1 small personal opinion detail. Great to know.

His overall point was the price isn't higher at the start of free agency. The 1 small hole I poked was the only deal he used to show that. Which if you eliminate leaves a set of deals showing the price highest before free agency.

You guys carry on though, cause I don't think any more details matter.

For some reason I have a feeling that if it was philly or Boston you would be praising them as geniuses and saying how they've cornered the market in a time when cap is immensely valuable. Eh it is what it is.

And this isn't some "hes always targeting the kings" because I think you'd maintain the same opinion for many other teams. But had it been your own? Well that's a different story.

[HartfordWhalers]

So you've decided to ignore his overall point and try to poke holes in 1 small personal opinion detail. Great to know.

His overall point was the price isn't higher at the start of free agency. The 1 small hole I poked was the only deal he used to show that. Which if you eliminate leaves a set of deals showing the price highest before free agency.

You guys carry on though, cause I don't think any more details matter.

For some reason I have a feeling that if it was philly or Boston you would be praising them as geniuses and saying how they've cornered the market in a time when cap is immensely valuable. Eh it is what it is.

And this isn't some "hes always targeting the kings" because I think you'd maintain the same opinion for many other teams. But had it been your own? Well that's a different story.

I’ve been pretty critical of a lot of things nybteam has done.

Just like right now I’m going to be critical of you trying to take a cheap shot and accusing me of bias when all other logic left the discussion. Don’t do that on this forum.

[LightTheBeam]

His overall point was the price isn't higher at the start of free agency. The 1 small hole I poked was the only deal he used to show that. Which if you eliminate leaves a set of deals showing the price highest before free agency.

You guys carry on though, cause I don't think any more details matter.

For some reason I have a feeling that if it was philly or Boston you would be praising them as geniuses and saying how they've cornered the market in a time when cap is immensely valuable. Eh it is what it is.

And this isn't some "hes always targeting the kings" because I think you'd maintain the same opinion for many other teams. But had it been your own? Well that's a different story.

I’ve been pretty critical of a lot of things nybteam has done.

Just like right now I’m going to be critical of you trying to take a cheap shot and accusing me of bias when all other logic left the discussion. Don’t do that on this forum.

Ya you're right the kings have no options taking on salary in the market. Divac waited to long, just another poor move made by an extremely poor GM.

[HartfordWhalers]

For some reason I have a feeling that if it was philly or Boston you would be praising them as geniuses and saying how they've cornered the market in a time when cap is immensely valuable. Eh it is what it is.

And this isn't some "hes always targeting the kings" because I think you'd maintain the same opinion for many other teams. But had it been your own? Well that's a different story.

I’ve been pretty critical of a lot of things nybteam has done.

Just like right now I’m going to be critical of you trying to take a cheap shot and accusing me of bias when all other logic left the discussion. Don’t do that on this forum.

Ya you're right the kings have no options taking on salary in the market. Divac waited to long, just another poor move made by an extremely poor GM.

And we are back to strawmen.

Having less options than at the draft and the start of free agency is obviously not the same as having no options.

But yeah, Divac’s track record isn’t great imo.

[LightTheBeam]

I’ve been pretty critical of a lot of things nybteam has done.

Just like right now I’m going to be critical of you trying to take a cheap shot and accusing me of bias when all other logic left the discussion. Don’t do that on this forum.

Ya you're right the kings have no options taking on salary in the market. Divac waited to long, just another poor move made by an extremely poor GM.

And we are back to strawmen.

Having less options than at the draft and the start of free agency is obviously not the same as having no options.

But yeah, Divac’s track record isn’t great imo.

I dont think I was strawmanning, I'm pretty sure i was being sarcastic but maybe you missed that.

Since you know the rebel already laid it out and rather than refuting his entire point you picked out 1 minor detail in which HE PERSONALLY felt chandler had neutral value.

[HartfordWhalers]

Ya you're right the kings have no options taking on salary in the market. Divac waited to long, just another poor move made by an extremely poor GM.

And we are back to strawmen.

Having less options than at the draft and the start of free agency is obviously not the same as having no options.

But yeah, Divac’s track record isn’t great imo.

I dont think I was strawmanning, I'm pretty sure i was being sarcastic but maybe you missed that.

Since you know the rebel already laid it out and rather than refuting his entire point you picked out 1 minor detail in which HE PERSONALLY felt chandler had neutral value.

I’m at a loss at how I can help you.

Rebel listed:
2 deals before free agency
Several deals after free agency

Rebels deals before free agency had 1) a huge cost and 2) had the Sixers getting with 1.5 2nds a player he felt was neutral value.

Based off that Denver paid to dump a neutral value player who Philly projects to play significantly can’t minutes he then said the price beforehand isn’t as big as people think it is.

That one detail was his basis, and it was flawed.

I’ve spelled this out a lot now.

I’m amazed I think we are up to 20 posts on how:
Being available for salary dumps all of July is better than for only part of July. There seems to be a need to defend the Kings first, and find a way to second. Because that should not have been confrontational...

[LightTheBeam]

And we are back to strawmen.

Having less options than at the draft and the start of free agency is obviously not the same as having no options.

But yeah, Divac’s track record isn’t great imo.

I dont think I was strawmanning, I'm pretty sure i was being sarcastic but maybe you missed that.

Since you know the rebel already laid it out and rather than refuting his entire point you picked out 1 minor detail in which HE PERSONALLY felt chandler had neutral value.

I’m at a loss at how I can help you.

Rebel listed:
2 deals before free agency
Several deals after free agency

Rebels deals before free agency had 1) a huge cost and 2) had the Sixers getting with 1.5 2nds a player he felt was neutral value.

Based off that Denver paid to dump a neutral value player who Philly projects to play significantly can’t minutes he then said the price beforehand isn’t as big as people think it is.

That one detail was his basis, and it was flawed.

I’ve spelled this out a lot now.

I’m amazed I think we are up to 20 posts on how:
Being available for salary dumps all of July is better than for only part of July. There seems to be a need to defend the Kings first, and find a way to second. Because that should not have been confrontational...

The way I see it is that it's just as likely to make a deadline deal for tax purposes as it is pre free agency..

And dude go ahead ban me, warn me do whatever you need to but you are full of bologna.

"At this point the Kings have waited until there is no demand"

Not even worth discussing with you anymore. You are always right and if anyone disagrees then it's being confrontational. What a joke.

[HartfordWhalers]

I dont think I was strawmanning, I'm pretty sure i was being sarcastic but maybe you missed that.

Since you know the rebel already laid it out and rather than refuting his entire point you picked out 1 minor detail in which HE PERSONALLY felt chandler had neutral value.

I’m at a loss at how I can help you.

Rebel listed:
2 deals before free agency
Several deals after free agency

Rebels deals before free agency had 1) a huge cost and 2) had the Sixers getting with 1.5 2nds a player he felt was neutral value.

Based off that Denver paid to dump a neutral value player who Philly projects to play significantly can’t minutes he then said the price beforehand isn’t as big as people think it is.

That one detail was his basis, and it was flawed.

I’ve spelled this out a lot now.

I’m amazed I think we are up to 20 posts on how:
Being available for salary dumps all of July is better than for only part of July. There seems to be a need to defend the Kings first, and find a way to second. Because that should not have been confrontational...

The way I see it is that it's just as likely to make a deadline deal for tax purposes as it is pre free agency..

And dude go ahead ban me, warn me do whatever you need to but you are full of bologna.

"At this point the Kings have waited until there is no demand"

Not even worth discussing with you anymore. You are always right and if anyone disagrees then it's being confrontational. What a joke.

Okay so we are back at take personal shots cause you have no argument? That break from that lasted a short time.

Maybe if you get banned then it won’t look like you had no point?

I’m not really interested in bailing you out of your foolishness.

Feel free to stand proudly with the argument that starting to look for cap deals on July 7th is just as likely to result in one as if a team had started to look a month beforehand, it is a heck of a position to take.