2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[TeamTragic]

Jackson will be fine. Not sure about Bender. Chriss is pretty much gone.

[MathiasPW]

Are you high?

You're right. He probably shouldn't even be in the league. Worst offensive PG in 30 years. Re-read that. He is that bad. There is nothing he does at a good level on that end of the court. He is a walking turnover who can't shoot and still takes a boatload of shots.
Then when you combine his horrid offense with his good defense, he still grades out as a VORP neutral player with negative ORtg-DRtg.

If he's the worst offensive PG in 30 years, it makes it real scary to realize he has the same TS% as JJ in the regular season...actually had a slightly better one at the same age. Better ast/to ratio...actually not bad there at 2/1.

Why mention JJ in this conversation at all?

Him being bad at offense does not make Smart less bad, and he wasn't mentioned at any point before.

I understand you usually take a devil's advocate position, but your insistence in criticizing Josh is getting tiresome.

[lilfishi22]

Oops, It looked like it was in a response to him being traded for Rozier...I thought it would show...but looking back just now I guess some user was responding to him on that tweet posing a trade.

Then it appears the tweet disappeared.

For those wondering his tweet just said "B"

I've said it before but TJ's got the most boring twitter account in the NBA. All he does is post "cryptic" song lyrics. So lame

TJ should be untouchable right now due to:

-The fact that we have him LOCKED IN on a great contract
-Jackson's poor summer league play
-Benders poor summer league play
-Chriss' attitude rumors
-Mikal is an unknown with zero NBA minutes
-Ariza is a 1 year rental

All these wings and so many questions...except for TJ. Boring, humble, reliable, efficient TJ.

I think it's crazy to consider anyone outside of Booker and Ayton untouchable. Don't take my words and interpret it as I want to trade him for pennies but he's not untouchable.

[lilfishi22]

All Rookie Second team after a bad 2017.... averaged 17+ points a game and played defense in 2018, second only to Mitchell..

And that was BAD??


ridiculous.


To me its clear... not a great shooter = bad in the eyes of some Suns fans here. If Westbrook was a rookie or 2nd year player on the Suns, even players like Butler and Durant who shot low 40% early in his rookie year.... some of you guys would want them lynched. Basically Suns should just field a bunch of Bookers and Currys it seems.


Ridiculous.


Funny, Draymond Green shot poorly the 3pt line last season and is not known as a "good" shooter but he is a max player and an all-star.

Josh Jackson has shown many things outside of Booker-like shooting that is common with other elite players and Suns fans hate him...


The team needs defense, all round ability and athletecism as much as shooting.... Jackson ticks all the boxes outside of being a 3pt sharp shooter... Its baffling really.

Draymond deficiencies have been hidden since day one. Klay and Curry make him more than he really is. Kinda like when MJ made Luc Longley into a high paid center. Draymond is not an all-star on any other team not named Warriors.

I have been watching the NBA since 1988, and there probably isn’t a more overrated basketball player I have witnessed other than Draymond Green.

Non Suns topic that I needed to address..

I can get behind disagreeing about how someone is worth, and there is truth behind players 'worth' being inflated, but this was crazy to read. Saying he is the most over rated player since 1988 is insane, because what makes him great isn't helped AT ALL by what Klay and Steph do. He has heart, and wears his hat on the defensive end. And to tout that you know he is because you've watched basketball for a somewhat long time as evidence to your unfounded statement is pretty pretentious.

He lead the NBA in defensive Win Shares in the 16-17 season and was 3rd in the 15-16 season. Last year he dipped to top 30 is all. But to say that he's overrated because his offensive game is masked by Steph and Klay is EXTREMELY superficial. Whatever the dude makes on the offensive end is gravy. He's a firey, full of heart defensive specialist and a winner.

I do think he's overrated. He's a solid passer and an amazing defender but I still think he's overrated, especially on the offensive. Defensively I think he's worthy of his All Defense selection and DPOY awards. Just a super smart defender, has the strength, length and the speed to cover, play straight up and has super active hands. But offensively, I think it's laughable that he's much above league average.

Without a bunch of legendary shooters like Klay, Steph and a system that supports finding open shooters, he doesn't have half the assists that he does. He was about average in passing for big the season before Kerr came along but once Kerr took over the team, he became above average. It was only after his 2nd season under Kerr did he become an elite passer under Kerr. Aside from the passing, he's pretty average offensive player. His efficiency doesn't jump out the page except for that one season when he was shooting near .400 from the 3. He doesn't create many opportunities for himself offensively, he doesn't really get to the line and he's a below average offensive rebounder. That's not to say that he needs to do more than hitting the occasional 3, pass and play defense because that's really all that's asked of him on the team, I just think he looks better than he really is because he's hidden behind historically GREAT offensive players.

[PhxLax]

Oops, It looked like it was in a response to him being traded for Rozier...I thought it would show...but looking back just now I guess some user was responding to him on that tweet posing a trade.

Then it appears the tweet disappeared.

For those wondering his tweet just said "B"

I've said it before but TJ's got the most boring twitter account in the NBA. All he does is post "cryptic" song lyrics. So lame

TJ should be untouchable right now due to:

-The fact that we have him LOCKED IN on a great contract
-Jackson's poor summer league play
-Benders poor summer league play
-Chriss' attitude rumors
-Mikal is an unknown with zero NBA minutes
-Ariza is a 1 year rental

All these wings and so many questions...except for TJ. Boring, humble, reliable, efficient TJ.

Completely agree.

Further - I would really wanna see what the trade market is for Josh Jackson. I wonder what he can net back. Bender/Jackson/expiring Chander/Dudley or any combination of that ----> prob snag yourself a superstar instead of worrying about how much cap space u have next year and what FA is going to come sign here. Might as well trade for one today than wait and play the free-agent game next offseason when u know nobody wants to willingly come here and sign.

[timetoshinebaby]

Jackson will be fine. In regular season he will be far lower usage on offense which will see things normalise. In Summer League, he is the boss, in the Regular Season he is probably 5th option. He will get more looks on offense when he improves his shot.

Not concerned at all.

I think Chriss is gone. The whole freeing up roster space and him being out of shape when he looks okay, sounds like a PR move to me. Not sure for what though.

[PhxLax]

Read on Twitter

hmm...Phx sign n trade. I don't care u guys hate him he can't shoot, but we don't need shooters. Need toughness and smarts.....SMART

hopefully it's a sign n trade to ship out some clutter here and maybe they want a diamond in the rough like a Bender n expirings. And in turn Smart 2 Phx!

[bwgood77]

I'd love to try to snag KP or KAT for the right price at the deadline. The Wolves may not be able to keep KAT given their cap situation. Plus, if we trade for a guy like KAT or KP, we could still have cap space to sign someone else before we extend them.

Make a solid offer for KAT or KP at the deadline, then throw an offer to Kemba/Kyrie in free agency.

Booker/KAT/Kemba would all be on max deals, but TJ is locked in cheap and Ayton is still on a rookie scale. We could afford it.

Neither of those guys will be available, but I don't think you want a lumbering big like that next to Ayton anyway. Of course you wouldn't turn down getting a talent like that but the cost wouldn't be worth it. I don't even see any packages of our assets and players that would be enough if Booker and Ayton are off the table.

Unless you were proposing Ayton be a part of a deal.

I agree that KAT would probably not be an ideal fit at the 4 next to Ayton given his lack of defense. But I disagree on your stance he might not be available. He's gonna get a max offer and Minny already has to pay Wiggins. If Butler still is having issues with KAT by midseason and they are not winning, they may look for a trade.

I think KP would be an absurd fit at the 4 next to Ayton. He's athletic enough to defend the 4 on defense and on offense he can stretch the floor. But here I think the issue is that the Knicks won't move him. They'll keep him and max him or match any offer.

As for our assets at the trade deadline, Tyson/Dudley/Ariza are all expiring. We have two picks in the 2019 draft (Buck + ours), and we may or may not have young assets to dangle. It depends on how JJ/Bender/Chriss/Oboko/Knight play. If some of those guys play well, including some of them, 2 or 3 picks, and expirings is about as good of a haul as you can get for a superstar.

I have pretty good info that says Glen Taylor would fire Thibs before signing off on a KAT trade. They control KAT and sure he will get a max and they know that. Butler they don't control for too long so even though he might leave if he doesn't like it there if they traded KAT he could leave anyway.

KAT is their future. I think they may try and trade Wiggins at some point after giving him a shot to improve. He is not living up to the contract he signed, at least not in his first year...to say the least.

Porzingis is not an ideal guy to guard 4s, particularly coming off of injury. Knicks reportedly didn't think Carter was a good fit (prior to draft) because they thought neither would be ideal guarding 4s.

Ayton would be better guarding 4s than Porzingis, but there is little chance they trade him. He is as popular there as Booker is in Phx and their best draft pick in 30 years.

[bigfoot]

Read on Twitter

hmm...Phx sign n trade. I don't care u guys hate him he can't shoot, but we don't need shooters. Need toughness and smarts.....SMART

hopefully it's a sign n trade to ship out some clutter here and maybe they want a diamond in the rough like a Bender n expirings. And in turn Smart 2 Phx!

Would be the stupidest signing ... just what we need, another guy who can't shoot the ball to go along with JJ. Just say no to Marcus.

[TeamTragic]

Pass on Smart. We need more shooters.

[bwgood77]

You're right. He probably shouldn't even be in the league. Worst offensive PG in 30 years. Re-read that. He is that bad. There is nothing he does at a good level on that end of the court. He is a walking turnover who can't shoot and still takes a boatload of shots.
Then when you combine his horrid offense with his good defense, he still grades out as a VORP neutral player with negative ORtg-DRtg.

If he's the worst offensive PG in 30 years, it makes it real scary to realize he has the same TS% as JJ in the regular season...actually had a slightly better one at the same age. Better ast/to ratio...actually not bad there at 2/1.

Why mention JJ in this conversation at all?

Him being bad at offense does not make Smart less bad, and he wasn't mentioned at any point before.

True, I guess I just expected it to be worse, and when I saw the numbers after having looked at our players, it just made me think "Wow" since he claims this guy is the worst PG in 30 years and it's all about shooting. And I am getting a little bit concerned with JJ, and that efficiency after only 1 year, so a guy doing it for 4 years is not a guy I want.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

hmm...Phx sign n trade. I don't care u guys hate him he can't shoot, but we don't need shooters. Need toughness and smarts.....SMART

hopefully it's a sign n trade to ship out some clutter here and maybe they want a diamond in the rough like a Bender n expirings. And in turn Smart 2 Phx!

Would be the stupidest signing ... just what we need, another guy who can't shoot the ball to go along with JJ. Just say no to Marcus.

He is not the PG I think I would want. Still holding out for Rubio next year. Smart is tough, plays good defense, but his lack of shooting as said, with JJ already would be problematic
Secondarily, it would have to be a sign and trade - something like a three team deal

Boston: Asik and a pick from the Bulls
Bulls: TJ Warren
Suns: Marcus Smart

I don't see this as an option. I have read that the Pelicans are interested in Rodney Hood. Wonder who they think they can sluff off on Cleveland - Solomon Hill? Mirotic has one year left and he seems a great fit with Randle and AD.

[bigfoot]

hmm...Phx sign n trade. I don't care u guys hate him he can't shoot, but we don't need shooters. Need toughness and smarts.....SMART

hopefully it's a sign n trade to ship out some clutter here and maybe they want a diamond in the rough like a Bender n expirings. And in turn Smart 2 Phx!

Would be the stupidest signing ... just what we need, another guy who can't shoot the ball to go along with JJ. Just say no to Marcus.

He is not the PG I think I would want. Still holding out for Rubio next year. Smart is tough, plays good defense, but his lack of shooting as said, with JJ already would be problematic
Secondarily, it would have to be a sign and trade - something like a three team deal

Boston: Asik and a pick from the Bulls
Bulls: TJ Warren
Suns: Marcus Smart

I don't see this as an option. I have read that the Pelicans are interested in Rodney Hood. Wonder who they think they can sluff off on Cleveland - Solomon Hill? Mirotic has one year left and he seems a great fit with Randle and AD.

Yes this would be a horrible trade ... giving up TJ Warren who has a decent true shooting percentage for a Smart with a career .480 true shooting percentage. Someone please start posting barf pics anytime Marcus Smart is brought up in a Suns trade.

[TASTIC]

Orlando and Kings need Smart more than we do, especially for $10m+ a season...Will be one of those two teams I suspect

[bwgood77]

Orlando and Kings need Smart more than we do, especially for $10m+ a season...Will be one of those two teams I suspect

If Orlando is going for all defense no offense. Not sure if they have cap space. They really need shooting. Hawks have cap space if they'd like him next to Smart, but I know their GM is trying to replicate the Warriors with shooters, so who knows.

I imagine he ends up playing on the QO, or a lot smaller deal than he expects.

[Waylay13]

Read on Twitter

hmm...Phx sign n trade. I don't care u guys hate him he can't shoot, but we don't need shooters. Need toughness and smarts.....SMART

hopefully it's a sign n trade to ship out some clutter here and maybe they want a diamond in the rough like a Bender n expirings. And in turn Smart 2 Phx!

Have you read how many people on this board have been blasting JJ for his shooting %? If we want that kind of defense on the point guard we can put JJ on them for a fraction of the cost. I believe that JJ's shot will improve because he wants to work on it. Smart doesnt seem to think it is an issue and that he should be paid like a star point guard when he doesnt come close to one. Just say no to Smart!

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

hmm...Phx sign n trade. I don't care u guys hate him he can't shoot, but we don't need shooters. Need toughness and smarts.....SMART

hopefully it's a sign n trade to ship out some clutter here and maybe they want a diamond in the rough like a Bender n expirings. And in turn Smart 2 Phx!

Have you read how many people on this board have been blasting JJ for his shooting %? If we want that kind of defense on the point guard we can put JJ on them for a fraction of the cost. I believe that JJ's shot will improve because he wants to work on it. Smart doesnt seem to think it is an issue and that he should be paid like a star point guard when he doesnt come close to one. Just say no to Smart!

I wouldn't mind running JJ at the 1 on occasion, more for defensive purposes, if they wanted Booker to initiate (not be a full time offensive PG, but with ball movement and a motion offense and a lot of passing, we may not need that traditional PG).

But Shaq can also play that Marcus Smart defensive role. He's a bad shooter too...but he makes nothing....great defender though and good from 2 pt range...finishing.
or
At this point I wouldn't mind starting Shaq..but it would depend on JJ...I'd probably start Knight if JJ or TJ started and Shaq if Mikal started. I doubt Mikal starts though.

[Waylay13]

I wouldn't mind running JJ at the 1 on occasion, more for defensive purposes, if they wanted Booker to initiate (not be a full time offensive PG, but with ball movement and a motion offense and a lot of passing, we may not need that traditional PG).

But Shaq can also play that Marcus Smart defensive role. He's a bad shooter too...but he makes nothing....great defender though and good from 2 pt range...finishing.
or
At this point I wouldn't mind starting Shaq..but it would depend on JJ...I'd probably start Knight if JJ or TJ started and Shaq if Mikal started. I doubt Mikal starts though.

I personally think the plan right now is to start Knight and play 4 out (Knight, Booker, JJ, Ariza, and Ayton) with the hope that JJ can improve his shooting over the course of the next couple months. it looks to me like we are going to be really seeing if the Suns can build a defensive team.

[bwgood77]

I wouldn't mind running JJ at the 1 on occasion, more for defensive purposes, if they wanted Booker to initiate (not be a full time offensive PG, but with ball movement and a motion offense and a lot of passing, we may not need that traditional PG).

But Shaq can also play that Marcus Smart defensive role. He's a bad shooter too...but he makes nothing....great defender though and good from 2 pt range...finishing.
or
At this point I wouldn't mind starting Shaq..but it would depend on JJ...I'd probably start Knight if JJ or TJ started and Shaq if Mikal started. I doubt Mikal starts though.

I personally think the plan right now is to start Knight and play 4 out (Knight, Booker, JJ, Ariza, and Ayton) with the hope that JJ can improve his shooting over the course of the next couple months. it looks to me like we are going to be really seeing if the Suns can build a defensive team.

If I had to guess I'd guess that Igor will leave the competition for starting spots open during training camp. Obviously Booker, Ayton and maybe Knight and Ariza are givens. Not sure though.

It probably doesn't matter who starts as much as who gets the most minutes though.

[BobbieL]

Would be the stupidest signing ... just what we need, another guy who can't shoot the ball to go along with JJ. Just say no to Marcus.

He is not the PG I think I would want. Still holding out for Rubio next year. Smart is tough, plays good defense, but his lack of shooting as said, with JJ already would be problematic
Secondarily, it would have to be a sign and trade - something like a three team deal

Boston: Asik and a pick from the Bulls
Bulls: TJ Warren
Suns: Marcus Smart

I don't see this as an option. I have read that the Pelicans are interested in Rodney Hood. Wonder who they think they can sluff off on Cleveland - Solomon Hill? Mirotic has one year left and he seems a great fit with Randle and AD.

Yes this would be a horrible trade ... giving up TJ Warren who has a decent true shooting percentage for a Smart with a career .480 true shooting percentage. Someone please start posting barf pics anytime Marcus Smart is brought up in a Suns trade.

I was just thinking Boston doesn’t need Warren and won’t take Dudley Daniels and pick so may need another team.


I don’t think I want Smart. Hold off a year - maybe band-aid it withthe guys you have. Teodosic maybe