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2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#321 » by PhxLax » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:28 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Seems our biggest weakness/need is at PF, assuming we overlook the huge pg question mark that is Brandon Knight.

Right now, we have PF by committee, with the main board members being SFs. I’m guessing we see what and if Chriss and Bender can contribute as we forge ahead with our not so powerful SFs getting the important minutes.

I’ll bet McDeal is working on improving PF position, as he has already placed a 15 mill bandaid on it thus far. Mid Season move coming up ?


Fully agree. The whole Ariza thing was knee-jerk signing at the spur of the moment. There's no effing way they gonna be successful or try to build any consistency/progress if they gonna roll out skinny Jackson and skinny Ariza as your forwards.

I happen to think SOMETHING gonna happen in the next 60 days w/ regards to Dudley-Warren-Chandler-Bender-Chriss. We need clarity and I would love to have a legit PF on this team. Not a superstar taking away cap space, but a legit somewhat young PF that is a starter next to Ayton.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#322 » by Kjdills13 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:40 pm

I love Kelly Olynyk- plays defense , hustles, really good passer, can hit the 3 at a high percentage. Only 27

Miami- duds, chandler, Bender
(They want cap relief well here you go)

Suns- olynyk, Johnson
(Suns get their young PF, then can try Johnson at PG)

Johnson- knight - okobo
Booker - bridges - Johnson
Jackson/Warren
Olynyk- Ariza - Chriss
Ayton - Olynyk

That's a YOUNG team that has a TON of flexibility , can play a ton of different lineups. And it will give knight and Johnson a chance to win the PG job, worst comes to worse in 12 month we will have 24 million in expiring contracts to trade.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#323 » by Fo-Real » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:41 pm

PhxLax wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Seems our biggest weakness/need is at PF, assuming we overlook the huge pg question mark that is Brandon Knight.

Right now, we have PF by committee, with the main board members being SFs. I’m guessing we see what and if Chriss and Bender can contribute as we forge ahead with our not so powerful SFs getting the important minutes.

I’ll bet McDeal is working on improving PF position, as he has already placed a 15 mill bandaid on it thus far. Mid Season move coming up ?


Fully agree. The whole Ariza thing was knee-jerk signing at the spur of the moment. There's no effing way they gonna be successful or try to build any consistency/progress if they gonna roll out skinny Jackson and skinny Ariza as your forwards.

I happen to think SOMETHING gonna happen in the next 60 days w/ regards to Dudley-Warren-Chandler-Bender-Chriss. We need clarity and I would love to have a legit PF on this team. Not a superstar taking away cap space, but a legit somewhat young PF that is a starter next to Ayton.


Hard to find one of those as far as legit and young, Saric is my nomination. Problem is he nor any other legit and young Pf will be up for bids. No one in that ilk is available that I can think of.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#324 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:43 pm

PhxLax wrote:
bigfoot wrote:McD did talk with Kokoshkov during his coaching interview and Koko said Ariza would be the best fit for the Suns. That might be the reason why McD made the quick jump. Based on the defense and offense I'm seeing Koko run in the summer league I'm sure he is going to use Ariza correctly. The defensive intensity by these kids has been insane so far.

Still like the Ariza signing as it brings us defense, three point shooting, and veteran leadership. We were the worst in the league at all three last year. Shaq and Reed both look to fit the defensive needs of the team. Plus Reed has the three point shooting chops. Bridges was a great move as he was a three year college player and hits the 3-D need. Overall McD has done above average addressing the needs of the team this year.


Probably more like - - - Hey Koko, check out D'Antoni. Do u see he got to the Western Finals w/ Ariza (6-8) and Tucker (6-6) as their forwards? Watcha think --- we can roll out two 6-8 guys in Warren n Ariza. The rest is history.....and will prove to be a mistake when three weeks in Ariza decides he's not suited to play frontcourt......afterall, he's a career wingman. Not a frontcourt player.

Doesn't everybody remember the JJ issue at start of last season? They played him at PF guarding Blake and Blake destroyed him. And JJ went in locker room and told reporters he hates playing PF and don't wanna be guarding big ass men like that. I don't blame him.

Teams need TWO bigs on the floor at all times. I'm old school. Even the Warriors rolled out McGee/Green as starters. And now they rolling out Boogie/Green. Pelicans same w/ Boogie/AD and now Randle/AD. Or Celtics' deep run with Horford/Baynes. Or Blake/Drummond. Or Pau/LaMarcus. Or Kanter/Porzingis or Jokic/Millsap. The list goes on and on and on w/ practically every NBA team except Suns and Rockets ---- and guess what both have Phx affiliations (tucker, d'antoni). Clearly it's a stupid valley desert mentality to play small ball and that goes nowhere. Period. No ifs or buts.

The whole spill about "u don't need bigs" is a giant myth. No team goes on to win consistently without 2 bigs on the floor at most times. And Suns will really make Ayton's job much harder by making him the only big on the floor. You've got a SG playing effing PF and you got a rookie Center who you're going to rely on 99% of the time. Not gonna work. Disaster waiting to happen.


McGee was a nominal starter but they played their real crunch time minutes with Green at C. The Pels were better with a stretch PF like Mirotic than they were with Cousins and frankly AD is a freak and can play with anyone. Horford and Baynes started but rarely if ever finished games together. Blake and Drummond pairing was a failure. Jokic and Millsap didn't work that well together either. Pau and LaMarcus got bounced in the first round. Really there is no examples of two non shooters playing in the post really working all that well; one of your PF or C has to be able to space the floor. Utah probably had the most success but even they rarely played crunch time with both Favors and Gobert.

I think this year is an experiment on playing a 4 out type of system around Ayton. That should allow him the most space in the post and prevent teams from double teaming him. In theory it's probably how they should play with him moving forward. The real question is going to be if he can hold up defensively as the lone true big man. I kind of like challenging him to do that early in his career because for him to reach his ultimate ceiling he needs to anchor a D.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#325 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:45 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:I’m surprised too Week... I’m mean blowing the load on Ariza right out of the gate just halted any other opportunities. That was a left field semi panic move imo... all because they didn’t want to tie up their $$ for a few days on a RFA??? And didn’t want to affect the capper next yr? May be there is more to it... but it’s bird in the hand time now. McDimwit is stuck on a next next year strategy.


McD did talk with Kokoshkov during his coaching interview and Koko said Ariza would be the best fit for the Suns. That might be the reason why McD made the quick jump. Based on the defense and offense I'm seeing Koko run in the summer league I'm sure he is going to use Ariza correctly. The defensive intensity by these kids has been insane so far.

Still like the Ariza signing as it brings us defense, three point shooting, and veteran leadership. We were the worst in the league at all three last year. Shaq and Reed both look to fit the defensive needs of the team. Plus Reed has the three point shooting chops. Bridges was a great move as he was a three year college player and hits the 3-D need. Overall McD has done above average addressing the needs of the team this year.

Selecting Kokoshkov
Drafting Ayton, Bridges, and Okobo
Releasing Ulis who was not a good defender or offensive player
Signing Ariza

Really my big disappointment was the release of Williams and looking at things (unknown status of Chriss, Chandler health issues, Ayton youth) I would think the another center is needed more than a PG or PF.

If we really need to pick someone else up this year then waive Daniels who is a defensive liability and use the $4.4M exception to sign another PG, PF, or C. If McD can somehow figure out how to move Dudley or Chandler to get another veteran presence that might be good. At this point we should be willing to give up second round picks to move players like Dudley, Chandler, and Daniels.



I have a feeling Chandler will be bought out and Williams will be brought back. Williams signed a pretty good deal for him last year - knowing years 2 and 3 were not guaranteed. So he probably knew a year ago this could happen
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#326 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:56 pm

Kjdills13 wrote:I love Kelly Olynyk- plays defense , hustles, really good passer, can hit the 3 at a high percentage. Only 27


I thought of Olynyk if Riley was wanting to create longer term cap space for next summer. Whiteside, Dragic have two years, Waiters, Johnson Olynyk three years. And I can see "Riles" wanting to get cap space

So, if Presti truly trades Anthony - I can Riley wanting him to rid himself of longer term debt to start to be ready for next summer. So, just a thought, if Melo is traded to Miami - then Riley might be open to move a Goran Dragic or an Olynyk to get cap space next summer. Unless those two are traded for Melo - but my thought would be Whiteside or a combo of ike Waiters and Johnson
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#327 » by JDLAW » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:04 pm

DaleyBlind wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
DaleyBlind wrote:Josh Jackson playing himself to the NAZ Suns, yeesh he looks terrible.
Also Reed must be kept over Troy Daniels.



Nonsense


Thought it was obvious that statement was hyperbole, but their is truth in it - he looks really bad. He is a terrible offensive player.


Again, nonsense.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#328 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:08 pm

JDLAW wrote:
DaleyBlind wrote:
JDLAW wrote:

Nonsense


Thought it was obvious that statement was hyperbole, but their is truth in it - he looks really bad. He is a terrible offensive player.


Again, nonsense.


Igor said something - from todays paper - like "josh is not just taking a lot of shots to dominate summer league. he looks to be tired. there are things we can help him with to make better decisions."

Kokoskov - i like him more and more
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#329 » by jcsunsfan » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:15 pm

PhxLax wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Seems our biggest weakness/need is at PF, assuming we overlook the huge pg question mark that is Brandon Knight.

Right now, we have PF by committee, with the main board members being SFs. I’m guessing we see what and if Chriss and Bender can contribute as we forge ahead with our not so powerful SFs getting the important minutes.

I’ll bet McDeal is working on improving PF position, as he has already placed a 15 mill bandaid on it thus far. Mid Season move coming up ?


Fully agree. The whole Ariza thing was knee-jerk signing at the spur of the moment. There's no effing way they gonna be successful or try to build any consistency/progress if they gonna roll out skinny Jackson and skinny Ariza as your forwards.

I happen to think SOMETHING gonna happen in the next 60 days w/ regards to Dudley-Warren-Chandler-Bender-Chriss. We need clarity and I would love to have a legit PF on this team. Not a superstar taking away cap space, but a legit somewhat young PF that is a starter next to Ayton.


Totally disagree about Ariza being a spur of the moment signing. When you call a guy immediately upon the free agent market opening and offer him that kind of contract--that was a very deliberate plan. There were lots of other free agents they could have gone after and Ariza is the one they called immediately and they made him an offer they knew he would accept. I can see how some fans might disagree with Ariza being an effective PF, but it is clear that the Suns think he can be and that they did their own research to come to that conclusion.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#330 » by bigfoot » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:42 pm

PhxLax wrote:
bigfoot wrote:McD did talk with Kokoshkov during his coaching interview and Koko said Ariza would be the best fit for the Suns. That might be the reason why McD made the quick jump. Based on the defense and offense I'm seeing Koko run in the summer league I'm sure he is going to use Ariza correctly. The defensive intensity by these kids has been insane so far.

Still like the Ariza signing as it brings us defense, three point shooting, and veteran leadership. We were the worst in the league at all three last year. Shaq and Reed both look to fit the defensive needs of the team. Plus Reed has the three point shooting chops. Bridges was a great move as he was a three year college player and hits the 3-D need. Overall McD has done above average addressing the needs of the team this year.


Probably more like - - - Hey Koko, check out D'Antoni. Do u see he got to the Western Finals w/ Ariza (6-8) and Tucker (6-6) as their forwards? Watcha think --- we can roll out two 6-8 guys in Warren n Ariza. The rest is history.....and will prove to be a mistake when three weeks in Ariza decides he's not suited to play frontcourt......afterall, he's a career wingman. Not a frontcourt player.

Doesn't everybody remember the JJ issue at start of last season? They played him at PF guarding Blake and Blake destroyed him. And JJ went in locker room and told reporters he hates playing PF and don't wanna be guarding big ass men like that. I don't blame him.

Teams need TWO bigs on the floor at all times. I'm old school. Even the Warriors rolled out McGee/Green as starters. And now they rolling out Boogie/Green. Pelicans same w/ Boogie/AD and now Randle/AD. Or Celtics' deep run with Horford/Baynes. Or Blake/Drummond. Or Pau/LaMarcus. Or Kanter/Porzingis or Jokic/Millsap. The list goes on and on and on w/ practically every NBA team except Suns and Rockets ---- and guess what both have Phx affiliations (tucker, d'antoni). Clearly it's a stupid valley desert mentality to play small ball and that goes nowhere. Period. No ifs or buts.

The whole spill about "u don't need bigs" is a giant myth. No team goes on to win consistently without 2 bigs on the floor at most times. And Suns will really make Ayton's job much harder by making him the only big on the floor. You've got a SG playing effing PF and you got a rookie Center who you're going to rely on 99% of the time. Not gonna work. Disaster waiting to happen.


Let's make it simple for you then. Tell us what big man we could have gotten in free agency this offseason that played defense and could hit the three ball. Don't throw out any RFAs (e.g., Gordon) because they would have been matched. Just tell us who (and it needs to be a PF) we would have had a reasonable chance of attracting.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#331 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:43 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Seems our biggest weakness/need is at PF, assuming we overlook the huge pg question mark that is Brandon Knight.

Right now, we have PF by committee, with the main board members being SFs. I’m guessing we see what and if Chriss and Bender can contribute as we forge ahead with our not so powerful SFs getting the important minutes.

I’ll bet McDeal is working on improving PF position, as he has already placed a 15 mill bandaid on it thus far. Mid Season move coming up ?


Fully agree. The whole Ariza thing was knee-jerk signing at the spur of the moment. There's no effing way they gonna be successful or try to build any consistency/progress if they gonna roll out skinny Jackson and skinny Ariza as your forwards.

I happen to think SOMETHING gonna happen in the next 60 days w/ regards to Dudley-Warren-Chandler-Bender-Chriss. We need clarity and I would love to have a legit PF on this team. Not a superstar taking away cap space, but a legit somewhat young PF that is a starter next to Ayton.


Totally disagree about Ariza being a spur of the moment signing. When you call a guy immediately upon the free agent market opening and offer him that kind of contract--that was a very deliberate plan. There were lots of other free agents they could have gone after and Ariza is the one they called immediately and they made him an offer they knew he would accept. I can see how some fans might disagree with Ariza being an effective PF, but it is clear that the Suns think he can be and that they did their own research to come to that conclusion.


Given the talents and shortcomings of the forwards on the roster as well as our desire to win next season, the FO clearly thought that Ariza was the best player to aid in the development of this team. Any significant PG signing would have been problematic if we hope to resurrect Knight's value (as we clearly do). Signing Ariza for only one year allows us to promote whomever among our forwards steps up this season. I suppose it's also fairly obvious that we didn't want to sign any young players that could stand in the way of the development of other young players on the roster (Gordon, Randle, Parker, Anderson, and even Bertans to a lesser extent) and that we didn't want to tie ourselves up in a protracted RFA battle while we watched good fits (like Ariza) slip away.

The $20 million in cap space we'll have next summer is also valuable, but less so given the amount of $$$ teams will have to spend. But we do get some time to further evaluate our young guys (and Knight) before making any long-term additions. If Koko manages to get a lot out of these guys, I wonder if we would consider taking on salary in order to add a pick (as remote as that possibility may be). I struggle to figure out whom we would actually want out of the FA class that we could afford at $20ish million.....
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#332 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:48 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
Fully agree. The whole Ariza thing was knee-jerk signing at the spur of the moment. There's no effing way they gonna be successful or try to build any consistency/progress if they gonna roll out skinny Jackson and skinny Ariza as your forwards.

I happen to think SOMETHING gonna happen in the next 60 days w/ regards to Dudley-Warren-Chandler-Bender-Chriss. We need clarity and I would love to have a legit PF on this team. Not a superstar taking away cap space, but a legit somewhat young PF that is a starter next to Ayton.


Totally disagree about Ariza being a spur of the moment signing. When you call a guy immediately upon the free agent market opening and offer him that kind of contract--that was a very deliberate plan. There were lots of other free agents they could have gone after and Ariza is the one they called immediately and they made him an offer they knew he would accept. I can see how some fans might disagree with Ariza being an effective PF, but it is clear that the Suns think he can be and that they did their own research to come to that conclusion.


Given the talents and shortcomings of the forwards on the roster as well as our desire to win next season, the FO clearly thought that Ariza was the best player to aid in the development of this team. Any significant PG signing would have been problematic if we hope to resurrect Knight's value (as we clearly do). Signing Ariza for only one year allows us to promote whomever among our forwards steps up this season. I suppose it's also fairly obvious that we didn't want to sign any young players that could stand in the way of the development of other young players on the roster (Gordon, Randle, Parker, Anderson, and even Bertans to a lesser extent) and that we didn't want to tie ourselves up in a protracted RFA battle while we watched good fits (like Ariza) slip away.

The $20 million in cap space we'll have next summer is also valuable, but less so given the amount of $$$ teams will have to spend. But we do get some time to further evaluate our young guys (and Knight) before making any long-term additions. If Koko manages to get a lot out of these guys, I wonder if we would consider taking on salary in order to add a pick (as remote as that possibility may be). I struggle to figure out whom we would actually want out of the FA class that we could afford at $20ish million.....


If we stretch Knight, we could add $9 million or so to the cap space, minus whatever the cap hold would be on our first rounder.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#333 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:50 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
Fully agree. The whole Ariza thing was knee-jerk signing at the spur of the moment. There's no effing way they gonna be successful or try to build any consistency/progress if they gonna roll out skinny Jackson and skinny Ariza as your forwards.

I happen to think SOMETHING gonna happen in the next 60 days w/ regards to Dudley-Warren-Chandler-Bender-Chriss. We need clarity and I would love to have a legit PF on this team. Not a superstar taking away cap space, but a legit somewhat young PF that is a starter next to Ayton.


Totally disagree about Ariza being a spur of the moment signing. When you call a guy immediately upon the free agent market opening and offer him that kind of contract--that was a very deliberate plan. There were lots of other free agents they could have gone after and Ariza is the one they called immediately and they made him an offer they knew he would accept. I can see how some fans might disagree with Ariza being an effective PF, but it is clear that the Suns think he can be and that they did their own research to come to that conclusion.


Given the talents and shortcomings of the forwards on the roster as well as our desire to win next season, the FO clearly thought that Ariza was the best player to aid in the development of this team. Any significant PG signing would have been problematic if we hope to resurrect Knight's value (as we clearly do). Signing Ariza for only one year allows us to promote whomever among our forwards steps up this season. I suppose it's also fairly obvious that we didn't want to sign any young players that could stand in the way of the development of other young players on the roster (Gordon, Randle, Parker, Anderson, and even Bertans to a lesser extent) and that we didn't want to tie ourselves up in a protracted RFA battle while we watched good fits (like Ariza) slip away.

The $20 million in cap space we'll have next summer is also valuable, but less so given the amount of $$$ teams will have to spend. But we do get some time to further evaluate our young guys (and Knight) before making any long-term additions. If Koko manages to get a lot out of these guys, I wonder if we would consider taking on salary in order to add a pick (as remote as that possibility may be). I struggle to figure out whom we would actually want out of the FA class that we could afford at $20ish million.....


I think you're spot on with the assessment of the Ariza signing. Like it or not it was plan A evidenced by them signing him 1 hour into FA. As I've stated I think the Ariza signing gives them some options later in the year because as long as he's healthy that is a very tradeable contract at the deadline if they are out of the hunt.

It's kind of interesting that for all the talk they had about getting vets this summer their actions point to them really targeting next year. Which does make sense if they feel that Ayton is the real deal and Booker continues to improve because they could be a MUCH more desirable team for a veteran to join next summer if those guys are legit than they were this summer coming in as the worst team in the league.

As far as who they will target that really doesn't need to be determined today. They will have a much better idea of the type of player they want by next spring. Plus it might not even be a FA they use their cap space on; having it makes it much easier to do a trade for a guy on a big contract.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#334 » by TeamTragic » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:52 pm

Kjdills13 wrote:I love Kelly Olynyk- plays defense , hustles, really good passer, can hit the 3 at a high percentage. Only 27

Miami- duds, chandler, Bender
(They want cap relief well here you go)

Suns- olynyk, Johnson
(Suns get their young PF, then can try Johnson at PG)

Johnson- knight - okobo
Booker - bridges - Johnson
Jackson/Warren
Olynyk- Ariza - Chriss
Ayton - Olynyk

That's a YOUNG team that has a TON of flexibility , can play a ton of different lineups. And it will give knight and Johnson a chance to win the PG job, worst comes to worse in 12 month we will have 24 million in expiring contracts to trade.


Ultimately I think we pass. Not a bad idea if we want to load up.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#335 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:53 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
Fully agree. The whole Ariza thing was knee-jerk signing at the spur of the moment. There's no effing way they gonna be successful or try to build any consistency/progress if they gonna roll out skinny Jackson and skinny Ariza as your forwards.

I happen to think SOMETHING gonna happen in the next 60 days w/ regards to Dudley-Warren-Chandler-Bender-Chriss. We need clarity and I would love to have a legit PF on this team. Not a superstar taking away cap space, but a legit somewhat young PF that is a starter next to Ayton.


Totally disagree about Ariza being a spur of the moment signing. When you call a guy immediately upon the free agent market opening and offer him that kind of contract--that was a very deliberate plan. There were lots of other free agents they could have gone after and Ariza is the one they called immediately and they made him an offer they knew he would accept. I can see how some fans might disagree with Ariza being an effective PF, but it is clear that the Suns think he can be and that they did their own research to come to that conclusion.


Given the talents and shortcomings of the forwards on the roster as well as our desire to win next season, the FO clearly thought that Ariza was the best player to aid in the development of this team. Any significant PG signing would have been problematic if we hope to resurrect Knight's value (as we clearly do). Signing Ariza for only one year allows us to promote whomever among our forwards steps up this season. I suppose it's also fairly obvious that we didn't want to sign any young players that could stand in the way of the development of other young players on the roster (Gordon, Randle, Parker, Anderson, and even Bertans to a lesser extent) and that we didn't want to tie ourselves up in a protracted RFA battle while we watched good fits (like Ariza) slip away.

The $20 million in cap space we'll have next summer is also valuable, but less so given the amount of $$$ teams will have to spend. But we do get some time to further evaluate our young guys (and Knight) before making any long-term additions. If Koko manages to get a lot out of these guys, I wonder if we would consider taking on salary in order to add a pick (as remote as that possibility may be). [b]I struggle to figure out whom we would actually want out of the FA class that we could afford at $20ish [/b]million.....


With Exum signing in Utah - I would think a guy like Rubio might be a possibility. Granted, the 4/PF. is also open but like you, not sure would be the right 4/PF.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#336 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:57 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
Kjdills13 wrote:I love Kelly Olynyk- plays defense , hustles, really good passer, can hit the 3 at a high percentage. Only 27

Miami- duds, chandler, Bender
(They want cap relief well here you go)

Suns- olynyk, Johnson
(Suns get their young PF, then can try Johnson at PG)

Johnson- knight - okobo
Booker - bridges - Johnson
Jackson/Warren
Olynyk- Ariza - Chriss
Ayton - Olynyk

That's a YOUNG team that has a TON of flexibility , can play a ton of different lineups. And it will give knight and Johnson a chance to win the PG job, worst comes to worse in 12 month we will have 24 million in expiring contracts to trade.


Ultimately I think we pass. Not a bad idea if we want to load up.


Tyler Johnson I take it - not James.

LIke I said, if Riley dumps two contracts to OKC dollars for Melo - he might be "open for business".

I still do not think Presti takes contracts - when just stretching Melo saves SO much money
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#337 » by jcsunsfan » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:00 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
Totally disagree about Ariza being a spur of the moment signing. When you call a guy immediately upon the free agent market opening and offer him that kind of contract--that was a very deliberate plan. There were lots of other free agents they could have gone after and Ariza is the one they called immediately and they made him an offer they knew he would accept. I can see how some fans might disagree with Ariza being an effective PF, but it is clear that the Suns think he can be and that they did their own research to come to that conclusion.


Given the talents and shortcomings of the forwards on the roster as well as our desire to win next season, the FO clearly thought that Ariza was the best player to aid in the development of this team. Any significant PG signing would have been problematic if we hope to resurrect Knight's value (as we clearly do). Signing Ariza for only one year allows us to promote whomever among our forwards steps up this season. I suppose it's also fairly obvious that we didn't want to sign any young players that could stand in the way of the development of other young players on the roster (Gordon, Randle, Parker, Anderson, and even Bertans to a lesser extent) and that we didn't want to tie ourselves up in a protracted RFA battle while we watched good fits (like Ariza) slip away.

The $20 million in cap space we'll have next summer is also valuable, but less so given the amount of $$$ teams will have to spend. But we do get some time to further evaluate our young guys (and Knight) before making any long-term additions. If Koko manages to get a lot out of these guys, I wonder if we would consider taking on salary in order to add a pick (as remote as that possibility may be). I struggle to figure out whom we would actually want out of the FA class that we could afford at $20ish million.....


If we stretch Knight, we could add $9 million or so to the cap space, minus whatever the cap hold would be on our first rounder.


If we are interested in making a deal right now, one of the hidden considerations in trading one or both of the first rounders we could have next year is the cap hold that they will command. If both are mid firsts, they could command $8 million or more in a cap hold. This might be the year to convert those, along with a tradeable asset like Warren for a real quality piece.

Say we trade Warren (not that I really want to dump him, he just seems the most logical moveable piece) and both first round picks next year for a really good pg. If we stretch Knight, potentially that could give us as much as $36 million in cap money, depending on how much salary and how long the commitment is that comes back in trade.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#338 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:02 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Given the talents and shortcomings of the forwards on the roster as well as our desire to win next season, the FO clearly thought that Ariza was the best player to aid in the development of this team. Any significant PG signing would have been problematic if we hope to resurrect Knight's value (as we clearly do). Signing Ariza for only one year allows us to promote whomever among our forwards steps up this season. I suppose it's also fairly obvious that we didn't want to sign any young players that could stand in the way of the development of other young players on the roster (Gordon, Randle, Parker, Anderson, and even Bertans to a lesser extent) and that we didn't want to tie ourselves up in a protracted RFA battle while we watched good fits (like Ariza) slip away.

The $20 million in cap space we'll have next summer is also valuable, but less so given the amount of $$$ teams will have to spend. But we do get some time to further evaluate our young guys (and Knight) before making any long-term additions. If Koko manages to get a lot out of these guys, I wonder if we would consider taking on salary in order to add a pick (as remote as that possibility may be). I struggle to figure out whom we would actually want out of the FA class that we could afford at $20ish million.....


If we stretch Knight, we could add $9 million or so to the cap space, minus whatever the cap hold would be on our first rounder.


If we are interested in making a deal right now, one of the hidden considerations in trading one or both of the first rounders we could have next year is the cap hold that they will command. If both are mid firsts, they could command $8 million or more in a cap hold. This might be the year to convert those, along with a tradeable asset like Warren for a real quality piece.

Say we trade Warren (not that I really want to dump him, he just seems the most logical moveable piece) and both first round picks next year for a really good pg. If we stretch Knight, potentially that could give us as much as $36 million in cap money, depending on how much salary and how long the commitment is that comes back in trade.


dumping Bender/Chriss or renouncing one or both give you even more than a first round pick in their first year. Unless they pick Ayton or top 5 again!
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#339 » by DirtyDez » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:09 pm



Good for Earl.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#340 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:10 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Given the talents and shortcomings of the forwards on the roster as well as our desire to win next season, the FO clearly thought that Ariza was the best player to aid in the development of this team. Any significant PG signing would have been problematic if we hope to resurrect Knight's value (as we clearly do). Signing Ariza for only one year allows us to promote whomever among our forwards steps up this season. I suppose it's also fairly obvious that we didn't want to sign any young players that could stand in the way of the development of other young players on the roster (Gordon, Randle, Parker, Anderson, and even Bertans to a lesser extent) and that we didn't want to tie ourselves up in a protracted RFA battle while we watched good fits (like Ariza) slip away.

The $20 million in cap space we'll have next summer is also valuable, but less so given the amount of $$$ teams will have to spend. But we do get some time to further evaluate our young guys (and Knight) before making any long-term additions. If Koko manages to get a lot out of these guys, I wonder if we would consider taking on salary in order to add a pick (as remote as that possibility may be). I struggle to figure out whom we would actually want out of the FA class that we could afford at $20ish million.....


If we stretch Knight, we could add $9 million or so to the cap space, minus whatever the cap hold would be on our first rounder.


If we are interested in making a deal right now, one of the hidden considerations in trading one or both of the first rounders we could have next year is the cap hold that they will command. If both are mid firsts, they could command $8 million or more in a cap hold. This might be the year to convert those, along with a tradeable asset like Warren for a real quality piece.

Say we trade Warren (not that I really want to dump him, he just seems the most logical moveable piece) and both first round picks next year for a really good pg. If we stretch Knight, potentially that could give us as much as $36 million in cap money, depending on how much salary and how long the commitment is that comes back in trade.


The Bucks pick has a good chance of being protected again, and who knows where our's would be. I wouldn't trade our first rounder next year, not with the new lottery system, and the top 4 being drawn and better odds for those without the very worst records.

There are a bunch of teams with cap space so we can't assume we will sign a big name. We could always decline options on Chriss or Bender to create more, and Shaq and Reed as well (though they make so little they would be worth keeping if they add value to the team).

I think we need to keep our picks and rookie contracts since we hopefully have some guys on our roster now that will command big second contracts. We will need those smaller cost controlled contracts to keep coming in.

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