Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money"

jfs1000d · Post #1641 » by **jfs1000d** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:03 pm

I want the guy on the team. He does unusual things on the court. I think Van Gundy said he gets you extra possessions, which is critical on a good team.

If shooting was everything, Jarrell Eddie would be on the team.

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sam_I_am · Post #1642 » by **sam_I_am** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:08 pm

Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season. We have 3-4 first round picks next year. How many teams would pay 8-9 best player 15 million per year with 5 potential max salary guys on roster when they have 3-4 picks coming and 2 are likely lottery picks?

Reality is a harsh mistress. What’s best for Smart isn’t what’s best for Celtics so either the market is favorable for the Celtics or he walks. It’s really not personal and his agent is doing a disservice to him to even imply that it could be that way.

tombattor · Post #1643 » by **tombattor** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:11 pm

sam_I_am wrote:Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season. We have 3-4 first round picks next year. How many teams would pay 8-9 best player 15 million per year with 5 potential max salary guys on roster when they have 3-4 picks coming and 2 are likely lottery picks?

Reality is a harsh mistress. What’s best for Smart isn’t what’s best for Celtics so either the market is favorable for the Celtics or he walks. It’s really not personal and his agent is doing a disservice to him to even imply that it could be that way.

He was 7th best player in the playoffs? Behind Tatum, Al, Brown, then who else?

Celts17Pride · Post #1644 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:13 pm

jfs1000d wrote:I want the guy on the team. He does unusual things on the court. I think Van Gundy said he gets you extra possessions, which is critical on a good team.

Smart’s extra possessions net out when he is shooting 4 for 13 and turning the ball over. Something pro Smart people completely ignore.

jfs1000d · Post #1645 » by **jfs1000d** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:16 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:I want the guy on the team. He does unusual things on the court. I think Van Gundy said he gets you extra possessions, which is critical on a good team.

Smart’s extra possessions net out when he is shooting 4 for 13 and turning the ball over. Something pro Smart people completely ignore.

Disagree.

Look at him on and off the floor for Boston. How do the Celtics have those splits with him shooting 4 of 13?

Not an accident. I really like him out there. He has to shoot better, but if he gets to 40% shooting and 33% from 3, he’s gold imo

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tombattor · Post #1646 » by **tombattor** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:19 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:I want the guy on the team. He does unusual things on the court. I think Van Gundy said he gets you extra possessions, which is critical on a good team.

Smart’s extra possessions net out when he is shooting 4 for 13 and turning the ball over. Something pro Smart people completely ignore.

Disagree.

Look at him on and off the floor for Boston. How do the Celtics have those splits with him shooting 4 of 13?

Not an accident. I really like him out there. He has to shoot better, but if he gets to 40% shooting and 33% from 3, he’s gold imo

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If he shoots like that, then he'll be a max player.

Celtic Esquire · Post #1647 » by **Celtic Esquire** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:21 pm

Bill Bradley wrote:The most likely outcome of all of this is Smart will fire his agent. How unprofessional and wrongheaded can an agent be and remain employed?

Here is Happy Walters' client list. Not exactly a roster of All-Stars and NBA First Teamers so it's not surprising that the agent is going to try and milk as much money as he can from Smart's contract to the possible detriment of Smart.

https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Happy-David-Walters/42

CeltsfanSinceBirth · Post #1648 » by **CeltsfanSinceBirth** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:23 pm

tombattor wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season. We have 3-4 first round picks next year. How many teams would pay 8-9 best player 15 million per year with 5 potential max salary guys on roster when they have 3-4 picks coming and 2 are likely lottery picks?

Reality is a harsh mistress. What’s best for Smart isn’t what’s best for Celtics so either the market is favorable for the Celtics or he walks. It’s really not personal and his agent is doing a disservice to him to even imply that it could be that way.

He was 7th best player in the playoffs? Behind Tatum, Al, Brown, then who else?

if he says Morris was better.

cloverleaf · Post #1649 » by **cloverleaf** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:23 pm

tombattor wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season. We have 3-4 first round picks next year. How many teams would pay 8-9 best player 15 million per year with 5 potential max salary guys on roster when they have 3-4 picks coming and 2 are likely lottery picks?

Reality is a harsh mistress. What’s best for Smart isn’t what’s best for Celtics so either the market is favorable for the Celtics or he walks. It’s really not personal and his agent is doing a disservice to him to even imply that it could be that way.

He was 7th best player in the playoffs? Behind Tatum, Al, Brown, then who else?

TRO definitely--#2 in VORP, #3 in WS/48, #1 in minutes played--and Baynes I'd say too, though he didn't play big minutes. Then Morris and Smart IMO are the next tier, followed by Semi and Larkin.

So I'd say tied for 6th.

Big Joke Line · Post #1650 » by **Big Joke Line** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:27 pm

tombattor wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Smart’s extra possessions net out when he is shooting 4 for 13 and turning the ball over. Something pro Smart people completely ignore.

Disagree.

Look at him on and off the floor for Boston. How do the Celtics have those splits with him shooting 4 of 13?

Not an accident. I really like him out there. He has to shoot better, but if he gets to 40% shooting and 33% from 3, he’s gold imo

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If he shoots like that, then he'll be a max player.

Exactly, let us know when that happens.

jfs1000d · Post #1651 » by **jfs1000d** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:29 pm

tombattor wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Smart’s extra possessions net out when he is shooting 4 for 13 and turning the ball over. Something pro Smart people completely ignore.

Disagree.

Look at him on and off the floor for Boston. How do the Celtics have those splits with him shooting 4 of 13?

Not an accident. I really like him out there. He has to shoot better, but if he gets to 40% shooting and 33% from 3, he’s gold imo

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If he shoots like that, then he'll be a max player.

I think he is a better shooter than his #s, which makes no sense.

He take a lot of late and desperate attempts. I think he also takes low percentage and difficult shots.

His key to improving shooting is continuing to fine-tune his mechanics, and getting better shot selection. I swear he gives away 2 shots a game that has zero chance at going in.

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Fencer reregistered · Post #1652 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:31 pm

sam_I_am wrote:Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season.

Are you assuming Smart will be similarly injured every season?

tombattor · Post #1653 » by **tombattor** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:36 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
tombattor wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:Disagree.

Look at him on and off the floor for Boston. How do the Celtics have those splits with him shooting 4 of 13?

Not an accident. I really like him out there. He has to shoot better, but if he gets to 40% shooting and 33% from 3, he’s gold imo

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If he shoots like that, then he'll be a max player.

I think he is a better shooter than his #s, which makes no sense.

He take a lot of late and desperate attempts. I think he also takes low percentage and difficult shots.

His key to improving shooting is continuing to fine-tune his mechanics, and getting better shot selection. I swear he gives away 2 shots a game that has zero chance at going in.

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I'm with you. Well, Smart's shooting is pretty terrible. But I love the guy. He plays top notch D. Can handle and run the offense. Makes big plays. Other than shooting, what's not to love?

Post #1654 » by **sully00** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:37 pm

tombattor wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
Big Joke Line wrote:In the sense that he is not a need or even a 6th man on a championship team.

Tbh, I said it before the season ended and will say it again, I'm over Smart and I agree with you I think most people here are overvaluing him grossly. If we bring a guy like Beverly or even Collison our offense would be much better on that 2nd unit. Marcus is so absurdly bad on offense.

Our defense will also get worse. We have guys that can score enough from guard position that we don't need whatever offense Beverly or Collison will bring. And even though Beverly is a good defender, he's not even close to being on the level of Marcus Smart.

I don't think it is necessarily true. Marcus plays 76% of his mins with another PG on the floor be it Irving, Rozier, or Larkin. So a big chunk of those mins are going to be mins played by Gordon Hayward whether he or Brown are lined up at the SG spot and both are good defenders and huge upgrades offensively. Obviously a lot of mins went to Ojeleye, Larkin, and Nader and Smart can take up a lot of those mins.

You also don't have to play dominant life and death defense if you actually put the ball in the basket.

I think we should be careful when assessing the importance of either Rozier or Smart keep in mind that it wasn't purely their role and performance what made them valuable and appear so important is that it came when the team was so undermanned. They were playing with 8-9 man rotations and using guys like Larkin, Bird, Allen, essentially anyone they could find to give them some in mins at guard. It is a credit to both players that they came through I am just not sure I expect them to have the same roles next season.

Big Joke Line · Post #1655 » by **Big Joke Line** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:40 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season.

Are you assuming Smart will be similarly injured every season?

Are you assuming the Celtics will be similarly injured every season thus giving him an elevated role?

Post #1656 » by **sully00** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season.

Are you assuming Smart will be similarly injured every season?

How does him being injured in FEB impact him in the playoffs?

Who is he going to move past on that list of 7 players in front of him?
Irving
Hayward
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Rozier
Baynes
He isn't unless he gets better offensively. Then you factor in Theis who was better than him in the regular season in the end Marcus Smart is you 9th best player and I don't know how that changes.

Big Joke Line · Post #1657 » by **Big Joke Line** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:53 pm

sully00 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season.

Are you assuming Smart will be similarly injured every season?

How does him being injured in FEB impact him in the playoffs?

Who is he going to move past on that list of 7 players in front of him?
Irving
Hayward
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Rozier
Baynes
He isn't unless he gets better offensively. Then you factor in Theis who was better than him in the regular season in the end Marcus Smart is you 9th best player and I don't know how that changes.

I'd also add I'd like them to upgrade from Morris. If that happens that's another spot.

BruceBanner18 · Post #1658 » by **BruceBanner18** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:56 pm

sully00 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:Smart was our 7th best player in playoffs and Kyrie and Hayward did not play which means he is our 9th best player or 8th going forward if you assume Morris moves along after this season.

Are you assuming Smart will be similarly injured every season?

How does him being injured in FEB impact him in the playoffs?

Who is he going to move past on that list of 7 players in front of him?
Irving
Hayward
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Rozier
Baynes
He isn't unless he gets better offensively. Then you factor in Theis who was better than him in the regular season in the end Marcus Smart is you 9th best player and I don't know how that changes.

I mostly agree with this BUT...I think there are times, especially in the playoffs when Irving, Hayward, Tatum and Brown are providing enough offense that Stevens goes to Smart for a defensive match up over Rozier AND there are times he'd play over Baynes to allow us to to play a smaller line up.

ZeroTolerance · Post #1659 » by **ZeroTolerance** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:00 pm

sully00 wrote:I think we should be careful when assessing the importance of either Rozier or Smart keep in mind that it wasn't purely their role and performance what made them valuable and appear so important is that it came when the team was so undermanned. They were playing with 8-9 man rotations and using guys like Larkin, Bird, Allen, essentially anyone they could find to give them some in mins at guard. It is a credit to both players that they came through I am just not sure I expect them to have the same roles next season.

Sully...I've been observing them both and thinking the whole time that they remind me allot of Sam and KC Jones...Sure, next year their minutes could take a hit....and likely that is just what will happen....But for those who may not know of the "Jones boys', both started as reserves and worked their way up to being starters replacing Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman on those great early championship Celtic teams...They were reserve players that Red used to up tempo the game and give his team a shot of life when things weren't going the right way...

Smart is that KC like defensive spark for this team....Rozier is quickly becoming that dead eye shooter that Sam was...but believe me, they had a huge role in Red's scheme of things....Now, I know, this is 2018 and all and it's a different sort of NBA. But these two guys are worth keeping in my opinion to fill in those rolls as others like Kyrie or Gordon Hayward move on or are traded....And if it's offense that is needed, Rozier is that guy....and if an opposing player is going off on you, there is no better player in the league to put the clamps on the guy than Marcus Smart...I'd just hate to see either of them go....but that's just me...Blue chip players improve with time....And I think both of these guys have much more to give than we have seen....Anyway, the hope is that Danny can pull a rabbit out of his hat and keep both of these home grown Celtics in the fold....JMO

jmr07019 · Post #1660 » by **jmr07019** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:00 pm

Smart has averaged 65 games / year. Given the way he plays and his inability to stay on the court I think its fair to assume he will miss some time every year. You hope he's ready to go in the playoffs.