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2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#421 » by GoranTragic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:14 pm

TOO wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:Smart S&T. Grizzlies/Nets. I would say that Ainge doesn't match.

KAT negotiating his contract with the Wolves. Any chance it falls through and we sign him next season?


Does 0% count?


Easy with the negativity. Did you have a flashback from last season?
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#422 » by TOO » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:30 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
TOO wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:Smart S&T. Grizzlies/Nets. I would say that Ainge doesn't match.

KAT negotiating his contract with the Wolves. Any chance it falls through and we sign him next season?


Does 0% count?


Easy with the negativity. Did you have a flashback from last season?


Get outta here, being realistic and being negative are 2 different things.

Don't be dense for the sake of doing so. :nonono:
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#423 » by King4Day » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:33 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
TOO wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:Smart S&T. Grizzlies/Nets. I would say that Ainge doesn't match.

KAT negotiating his contract with the Wolves. Any chance it falls through and we sign him next season?


Does 0% count?


Easy with the negativity. Did you have a flashback from last season?


I don't think it was negativity. KAT won't turn down that max money when it's put in front of him. He especially, after the postseason like he had, better cash in before he possibly loses more value.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#424 » by GoranTragic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:35 pm

TOO wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
TOO wrote:
Does 0% count?


Easy with the negativity. Did you have a flashback from last season?


Get outta here, being realistic and being negative are 2 different things.

Don't be dense for the sake of doing so. :nonono:


We just landed the #1 pick and we have a great coach. Be happy that we are making progress. Besides Booker has a connection with KAT.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#425 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:15 pm

BobbieL wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:I think Chandler as a mentor is totally overrated. He hasn’t helped any of our bigs as far as I can see.


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It's impossible to know what he's given us in the locker room, but on the court, the only thing he's shown me is that bigs shouldn't defend further from the FT line extended area under any circumstances, shouldn't sacrifice their body to try to get blocks and should never try to do anything on offense other than set screens, catch lobs on the roll and give the ball back to the guards to re-set.

Those are not good lessons for bigs to learn, obviously.


I agree that the reality is more than the myth. I have mentioned this offseason the Suns need to do better job with the players with half of 27m owed to Chandler Dudley and Daniels. And maybe - its buying out Tyson for 12m and signing Alan Williams. Better in the locker room, court, chemistry, etc. I get that it will be hard to move Chandler for a player of value. Or Dudley. Daniels, I think will be do-able. But I don't need this Tyson as Mentor stuff.


I'm not sure Daniels would receive a $3.5 million 1-year deal in free agency. Ellington hasn't signed yet. He's better. Wonder what he'd get.

Plus, a lot of the contenders are in lux tax territory. Perhaps there's a team on the bubble who needs a flamethrower.

But TBH, it's not like we would have no use for Daniels. Injuries happen. Daniels' quick trigger and deep range could be useful in certain circumstances, especially if teams haven't game planned for him. If you really wanted to lose a useless piece, you'd look to get rid of Tyson... I suspect the reason we haven't is that we're keeping our expirings around for a possible deadline deal.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#426 » by PhxLax » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:17 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:Doesn't that tell you that perhaps you're the only 'basketball expert' that thinks more highly of Rondo than actual basketball experts on NBA?


---> I'm not a basketball expert. I just love Rondo. He's my fav point guard save Steve Nash. Sure, I'm biased since my GF knows him from KY college days, but I'll go to my grave defending Rondo and Nash. Two of the greatest PG's to ever play the game -----> IMO.

SkinnyOMiller wrote:I would happily take Rubio next season.

Damkac wrote:Yes, Rubio should be high on our 2019 free agents list.

BobbieL wrote:I think that Rubio would be a very solid target with the first pick and may not break the bank like other players that might be max players.


---> Wow. What's this Rubio kool-aid everybody drinking? Trashing a smart champion like Rondo just cause he has real balls and is arrogant (so what??), but wanting an even more inferior shooter in Rubio? On top of that, Rubio isn't smart and seems to have zero drive. Rubio is one of the worst PG's to play the game. Rondo is everything Rubio wishes he was.

Waylay13 wrote:You do understand that the Suns are going to try to run a 4 out offense with everyone but Ayton be able to hit the 3? Both Smart and Rondo are very poor outside shooting threats.


---> So then why all the love for Rubio from myriad of people here? Rubio baffles me.

Waylay13 wrote:To top that off Rondo is toxic in the lockroom backed by multiple reports and at most teams only being willing to give him single year contracts. So no I wouldnt touch them at all.


---> Again. Fake news a la Donald Trump. Not everything u hear in media is true. Rondo is a real champ. A smart player w/ balls, honest arrogance, and deep drive & passion. He elevates people around him. And he speaks his mind. And is a heck of a defender.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#427 » by oddity » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:20 pm

^This is quite the interesting hill to die on
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#428 » by GoranTragic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:39 pm

oddity wrote:^This is quite the interesting hill to die on


Rondo on a team with Old Man LeBron. Not much else that needs discussion.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#429 » by Sreister » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:42 pm

PhxLax wrote:
---> Again. Fake news a la Donald Trump. Not everything u hear in media is true. Rondo is a real champ. A smart player w/ balls, honest arrogance, and deep drive & passion. He elevates people around him. And he speaks his mind. And is a heck of a defender.



I'll bite.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. Not to mention the very public and obvious Dallas issues he had. There's not 'smoke' there, only fire. That's not fake news. I refuse to argue that point to you because, well, there's no real argument to be made. He was a detriment to that team. End.

Also, you mean to tell me there's some witch hunt against Rondo? That all the dude does is win, but people just have it out for him? That he's unliked because he calls people out and just wants to win? Please. He's no Kobe. Say what you want about Kobe, but he was a winner. (Not excusing some of his other issues, which I won't go into here) Rondo won, sure, but that doesn't make him a winner. No winner has ever quit on his team like he did in Dallas.

There's something to be said about character guys in the locker room. To go off what other people were saying before you, about having Chandler and Duds in the locker room for "support" guys. Saying there is or isn't any sort of effect is just straight not knowing. We aren't in the locker room. You can argue results are a way to measure it, and I agree to some extent. But there's not many guys in the league that could have helped us to be decent the past few years. And the ones that could have, wouldn't have wanted to. I'm all FOR having those vets in here. We aren't in the locker rooms to know what they may have fixed, we only see the loses on the schedule, and IMO, that's just not enough to say whether or not they are making an impact.

My point is, we are surrounding our guys with solid character players and there's something to be said about that. There's a difference between arrogant and confident, and Rondo isn't on the side of that coin that I want on my team.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#430 » by Waylay13 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:45 pm

PhxLax wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Doesn't that tell you that perhaps you're the only 'basketball expert' that thinks more highly of Rondo than actual basketball experts on NBA?


---> I'm not a basketball expert. I just love Rondo. He's my fav point guard save Steve Nash. Sure, I'm biased since my GF knows him from KY college days, but I'll go to my grave defending Rondo and Nash. Two of the greatest PG's to ever play the game -----> IMO.

SkinnyOMiller wrote:I would happily take Rubio next season.

Damkac wrote:Yes, Rubio should be high on our 2019 free agents list.

BobbieL wrote:I think that Rubio would be a very solid target with the first pick and may not break the bank like other players that might be max players.


---> Wow. What's this Rubio kool-aid everybody drinking? Trashing a smart champion like Rondo just cause he has real balls and is arrogant (so what??), but wanting an even more inferior shooter in Rubio? On top of that, Rubio isn't smart and seems to have zero drive. Rubio is one of the worst PG's to play the game. Rondo is everything Rubio wishes he was.

Waylay13 wrote:You do understand that the Suns are going to try to run a 4 out offense with everyone but Ayton be able to hit the 3? Both Smart and Rondo are very poor outside shooting threats.


---> So then why all the love for Rubio from myriad of people here? Rubio baffles me.

Waylay13 wrote:To top that off Rondo is toxic in the lockroom backed by multiple reports and at most teams only being willing to give him single year contracts. So no I wouldnt touch them at all.


---> Again. Fake news a la Donald Trump. Not everything u hear in media is true. Rondo is a real champ. A smart player w/ balls, honest arrogance, and deep drive & passion. He elevates people around him. And he speaks his mind. And is a heck of a defender.


Tell you what please keep you politics off the board so we dont start having that issue here. I would skip on Rondo for a number of reason must of which has to do with him not fitting our timeline and him already being a negative person on our young core.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#431 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:47 pm

Sreister wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
---> Again. Fake news a la Donald Trump. Not everything u hear in media is true. Rondo is a real champ. A smart player w/ balls, honest arrogance, and deep drive & passion. He elevates people around him. And he speaks his mind. And is a heck of a defender.



I'll bite.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. Not to mention the very public and obvious Dallas issues he had. There's not 'smoke' there, only fire. That's not fake news. I refuse to argue that point to you because, well, there's no real argument to be made. He was a detriment to that team. End.

Also, you mean to tell me there's some witch hunt against Rondo? That all the dude does is win, but people just have it out for him? That he's unliked because he calls people out and just wants to win? Please. He's no Kobe. Say what you want about Kobe, but he was a winner. (Not excusing some of his other issues, which I won't go into here) Rondo won, sure, but that doesn't make him a winner. No winner has ever quit on his team like he did in Dallas.

There's something to be said about character guys in the locker room. To go off what other people were saying before you, about having Chandler and Duds in the locker room for "support" guys. Saying there is or isn't any sort of effect is just straight not knowing. We aren't in the locker room. You can argue results are a way to measure it, and I agree to some extent. But there's not many guys in the league that could have helped us to be decent the past few years. And the ones that could have, wouldn't have wanted to. I'm all FOR having those vets in here. We aren't in the locker rooms to know what they may have fixed, we only see the loses on the schedule, and IMO, that's just not enough to say whether or not they are making an impact.

My point is, we are surrounding our guys with solid character players and there's something to be said about that. There's a difference between arrogant and confident, and Rondo isn't on the side of that coin that I want on my team.



Rondo with the Suns would be different than Rondo with the Lakers and LeBron or the Celtics with KG. They have alpha personalities to handle his crap. Rondo in Sac-town; Rondo in Chicago - unless the Suns YOUNGER players developled alpha personalities - Rondo would be the Chicago Rondo in Phoenix - my guess.

Suns are building something. Understanding the right players to bring together is an important part of Ryans job now. Just not position wise but chemistry wise, style of play, and how that player might augment another player so the skills of both players flourish.

Its why unless Tyson Chandler is doing more than collect a paycheck - he needs to be done. EVen if they buy him out for 13m of his 13.6m - need the right attitude and locker room moving forward.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#432 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:56 pm

Waylay13 wrote:Tell you what please keep you politics off the board so we dont start having that issue here. I would skip on Rondo for a number of reason must of which has to do with him not fitting our timeline and him already being a negative person on our young core.


I'm glad there are stats in basketball. Can't say a guy shooting 5% on 30 attempts a game is a great player. Can't show the game on one channel and a 2K version of the same game on another. Gives us a baseline for discourse that sadly does not exist in politics, at least as a practical matter.

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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#433 » by Sreister » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:09 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Sreister wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
---> Again. Fake news a la Donald Trump. Not everything u hear in media is true. Rondo is a real champ. A smart player w/ balls, honest arrogance, and deep drive & passion. He elevates people around him. And he speaks his mind. And is a heck of a defender.



I'll bite.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. Not to mention the very public and obvious Dallas issues he had. There's not 'smoke' there, only fire. That's not fake news. I refuse to argue that point to you because, well, there's no real argument to be made. He was a detriment to that team. End.

Also, you mean to tell me there's some witch hunt against Rondo? That all the dude does is win, but people just have it out for him? That he's unliked because he calls people out and just wants to win? Please. He's no Kobe. Say what you want about Kobe, but he was a winner. (Not excusing some of his other issues, which I won't go into here) Rondo won, sure, but that doesn't make him a winner. No winner has ever quit on his team like he did in Dallas.

There's something to be said about character guys in the locker room. To go off what other people were saying before you, about having Chandler and Duds in the locker room for "support" guys. Saying there is or isn't any sort of effect is just straight not knowing. We aren't in the locker room. You can argue results are a way to measure it, and I agree to some extent. But there's not many guys in the league that could have helped us to be decent the past few years. And the ones that could have, wouldn't have wanted to. I'm all FOR having those vets in here. We aren't in the locker rooms to know what they may have fixed, we only see the loses on the schedule, and IMO, that's just not enough to say whether or not they are making an impact.

My point is, we are surrounding our guys with solid character players and there's something to be said about that. There's a difference between arrogant and confident, and Rondo isn't on the side of that coin that I want on my team.



Rondo with the Suns would be different than Rondo with the Lakers and LeBron or the Celtics with KG. They have alpha personalities to handle his crap. Rondo in Sac-town; Rondo in Chicago - unless the Suns YOUNGER players developled alpha personalities - Rondo would be the Chicago Rondo in Phoenix - my guess.

Suns are building something. Understanding the right players to bring together is an important part of Ryans job now. Just not position wise but chemistry wise, style of play, and how that player might augment another player so the skills of both players flourish.

Its why unless Tyson Chandler is doing more than collect a paycheck - he needs to be done. EVen if they buy him out for 13m of his 13.6m - need the right attitude and locker room moving forward.


The fact that there's more than one Rondo is enough for me to stay away from. Who knows what you'll get, IMO.

Also, I don't get why you want to get rid of him for..seemingly no reason. He's a GOOD locker room guy, no one says otherwise. (other than the murmurs of him wanting to be on a win now team) He's not bad for our locker room, I'd lean towards he's a plus in that regard. Also, he's not really stopping us from signing anyone that we'd actually want, right? Everyone agrees '19s class is going to be where you want to spend your money. With GSW on their tear right now, there's no rush to get back, but it's obviously time to move in the other direction, which is what he also helps with. We're growing now, instead of collecting assets. Not to mention he's a great expiring if it comes to the trade deadline, or just goes his own way for us to be ready for 2019.

I guess I just fail to see why you want to get rid of him, other than it's a move.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#434 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:53 pm

Sreister wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Sreister wrote:

I'll bite.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. Not to mention the very public and obvious Dallas issues he had. There's not 'smoke' there, only fire. That's not fake news. I refuse to argue that point to you because, well, there's no real argument to be made. He was a detriment to that team. End.

Also, you mean to tell me there's some witch hunt against Rondo? That all the dude does is win, but people just have it out for him? That he's unliked because he calls people out and just wants to win? Please. He's no Kobe. Say what you want about Kobe, but he was a winner. (Not excusing some of his other issues, which I won't go into here) Rondo won, sure, but that doesn't make him a winner. No winner has ever quit on his team like he did in Dallas.

There's something to be said about character guys in the locker room. To go off what other people were saying before you, about having Chandler and Duds in the locker room for "support" guys. Saying there is or isn't any sort of effect is just straight not knowing. We aren't in the locker room. You can argue results are a way to measure it, and I agree to some extent. But there's not many guys in the league that could have helped us to be decent the past few years. And the ones that could have, wouldn't have wanted to. I'm all FOR having those vets in here. We aren't in the locker rooms to know what they may have fixed, we only see the loses on the schedule, and IMO, that's just not enough to say whether or not they are making an impact.

My point is, we are surrounding our guys with solid character players and there's something to be said about that. There's a difference between arrogant and confident, and Rondo isn't on the side of that coin that I want on my team.



Rondo with the Suns would be different than Rondo with the Lakers and LeBron or the Celtics with KG. They have alpha personalities to handle his crap. Rondo in Sac-town; Rondo in Chicago - unless the Suns YOUNGER players developled alpha personalities - Rondo would be the Chicago Rondo in Phoenix - my guess.

Suns are building something. Understanding the right players to bring together is an important part of Ryans job now. Just not position wise but chemistry wise, style of play, and how that player might augment another player so the skills of both players flourish.

Its why unless Tyson Chandler is doing more than collect a paycheck - he needs to be done. EVen if they buy him out for 13m of his 13.6m - need the right attitude and locker room moving forward.


The fact that there's more than one Rondo is enough for me to stay away from. Who knows what you'll get, IMO.

Also, I don't get why you want to get rid of him for..seemingly no reason. He's a GOOD locker room guy, no one says otherwise. (other than the murmurs of him wanting to be on a win now team) He's not bad for our locker room, I'd lean towards he's a plus in that regard. Also, he's not really stopping us from signing anyone that we'd actually want, right? Everyone agrees '19s class is going to be where you want to spend your money. With GSW on their tear right now, there's no rush to get back, but it's obviously time to move in the other direction, which is what he also helps with. We're growing now, instead of collecting assets. Not to mention he's a great expiring if it comes to the trade deadline, or just goes his own way for us to be ready for 2019.

I guess I just fail to see why you want to get rid of him, other than it's a move.


I take it you mean Chandler... I was just basing moving forward without him based on his performance last year. I do think Dudley on the court improved the team. But if they can use these contracts to get better - why not try to get better.

Granted, I don't want a distraction in the locker room - but if you can get better on the court more so than the locker room - why not improve.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#435 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:02 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Sreister wrote:
BobbieL wrote:

Rondo with the Suns would be different than Rondo with the Lakers and LeBron or the Celtics with KG. They have alpha personalities to handle his crap. Rondo in Sac-town; Rondo in Chicago - unless the Suns YOUNGER players developled alpha personalities - Rondo would be the Chicago Rondo in Phoenix - my guess.

Suns are building something. Understanding the right players to bring together is an important part of Ryans job now. Just not position wise but chemistry wise, style of play, and how that player might augment another player so the skills of both players flourish.

Its why unless Tyson Chandler is doing more than collect a paycheck - he needs to be done. EVen if they buy him out for 13m of his 13.6m - need the right attitude and locker room moving forward.


The fact that there's more than one Rondo is enough for me to stay away from. Who knows what you'll get, IMO.

Also, I don't get why you want to get rid of him for..seemingly no reason. He's a GOOD locker room guy, no one says otherwise. (other than the murmurs of him wanting to be on a win now team) He's not bad for our locker room, I'd lean towards he's a plus in that regard. Also, he's not really stopping us from signing anyone that we'd actually want, right? Everyone agrees '19s class is going to be where you want to spend your money. With GSW on their tear right now, there's no rush to get back, but it's obviously time to move in the other direction, which is what he also helps with. We're growing now, instead of collecting assets. Not to mention he's a great expiring if it comes to the trade deadline, or just goes his own way for us to be ready for 2019.

I guess I just fail to see why you want to get rid of him, other than it's a move.


I take it you mean Chandler... I was just basing moving forward without him based on his performance last year. I do think Dudley on the court improved the team. But if they can use these contracts to get better - why not try to get better.

Granted, I don't want a distraction in the locker room - but if you can get better on the court more so than the locker room - why not improve.


Good locker room guy whatever. He doesn't hang out in Phoenix in the offseason. He's not in Vegas. He doesn't do **** on the court. If we need to open up a roster spot, it's gotta be for a guy who can play the C position better than Tyson - and there are simply too many guys who fulfill that criterion.

[Edit: I'm sure we're not releasing Tyson because we will consider using that expiring in a deadline deal. But dude is TOAST.]
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#436 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:09 pm

Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#437 » by NaturalBuns » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:10 pm

Cutting Chandler makes zero sense he just needs to give 15mins per night. Everything saying he doesn't have any vet leadership to give to ayton I'm blown away by those comments
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#438 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:26 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.


:noway:
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#439 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:32 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.



If capulator is corect - this cuts the lux tax bill from 10 to 4m

Before the Suns signed Ariza - I had thrown out WArren and Dudley for Millsap. The Nuggest since moved Chandler and the Suns signed Ariza but the idea was Suns get a one year PF, move WArren for 2019 cap and the Nuggets lower tax bill. If the Suns want cap space next summer; the Nuggests are already locked in with a core of Jokic, Harris, Plumlee, Porter, Murray Barton - so WArren might make sense.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#440 » by Fo-Real » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:37 pm

I really dont think Chandler brings vet leadership. I was hoping he would but I have not seen an example of his leadership yet. We hoped he would have a positive influence on Len and that didnt happen. Hoped he could be a good vet leader for young bigs Queese and Dragan, and there seems to be no trace of it. Hell, he was here when we had the Morri bros, Dragic bros, Isiah, Archie and all of the locker room turmoil that was later reported wasnt stopped by some solid vet. When Kief choked Archie on the bench he was standing there watching the argument the whole time watching and saying nothing, only to help others pull Kief off Archie after he had already started to be physical. Vet leadership didnt help Bled from acting like an ass before being told not to come back and that he would be traded. Dragics rant to be traded went on when Chandler was our starting center. Queese getting into it with the assistant coach last year, I didnt hear about a heart to heart with Leader Chandler. WTF has he actually done to help this team leadership wise that is documented other than that fluff special about how Booker talks to him witch seemed so spun up to take our minds off how terrible we were as a basketball team? Cant cut him, but staunch vet leader isnt working out for him so far.

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