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[BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan'

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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#181 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:33 pm

spree8 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:
It's best to give your young superstars early extensions. Letting them 'prove themselves' can create distrust. I think in KP's mind he's done more than enough to prove that he's a young player worthy of a max extension. And one of the jobs of the FO is too keep their star players happy, not alienate them.


You do understand that I’m saying just that, right?

If we’re keeping KP he shouldn’t have to wait. If you’re not(or not sure) then let him hit FA and make a decision from there.
...and if your not sure or don’t want him back then you should trade him.

By all accounts the Knicks want him here. So give that boy his money and stop lollygagging about it.



But it costs us a max player next summer. He might barely even play this year so he’s not really risking much and he won’t even get paid that money til next season anyway. They just need to tell him they have every intention of giving him all of his money.

I’m sure management is talking to him about it the way Detroit did with Drummond. If the guy wants to win so badly, then he should take his time, rehab, rest, and understand we want to bring in another star to play with him next summer. After that, we sign him to a max. But it has to be in that order.

He’s gotta work with management n get on the same page if he wants to win. That’s what champ level star players do (Lebron, Wade, Durant, Duncan, Dirk, etc.)


Two things:

1. Signing Timmy cost the Knicks a max.
The Knicks don’t even have max money if they wait to sign KP. We’re not entitled to players leaving money on the table to come here.


2. They didn’t do that coming out of their rookie contracts. They all had extensions in place. Drummond is the same caliber player of KP. He’s in the Lavine/Gordon boat.
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Re: RE: Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#182 » by GONYK » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:52 pm

Greenie wrote:There is no extension next summer. It’s a full blown re-sign. You’re asking an injury prone player to play on an expiring deal.

So don't play the season. Who cares?
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#183 » by Sark » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:05 pm

DowNY wrote:lol I don't understand why this is even still being discussed.
It makes total sense to squeeze a max player in before signing KP to an extension.

If KP truly has a problem with that, sign the QO (which lowers his cap hold even more) then we can run you into the ground the following season &/trade him. Simple.



Depends on who the max player is. They're not all created equal. I don't want to give a player a max deal that doesn't deserve one. Really the only ones we should be lookin at are available in 2021.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#184 » by dakomish23 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:09 pm

Sark wrote:
DowNY wrote:lol I don't understand why this is even still being discussed.
It makes total sense to squeeze a max player in before signing KP to an extension.

If KP truly has a problem with that, sign the QO (which lowers his cap hold even more) then we can run you into the ground the following season &/trade him. Simple.



Depends on who the max player is. They're not all created equal. I don't want to give a player a max deal that doesn't deserve one. Really the only ones we should be lookin at are available in 2021.


Squeezing in contracts before giving the rookie extension is why POR & WAS are in the situations they’re in.

We need to learn from the mistakes of other teams. I’m with you. Rather roll it over via one year deals or salary dumps for assets
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#185 » by spree8 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:10 pm

Greenie wrote:
spree8 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
You do understand that I’m saying just that, right?

If we’re keeping KP he shouldn’t have to wait. If you’re not(or not sure) then let him hit FA and make a decision from there.
...and if your not sure or don’t want him back then you should trade him.

By all accounts the Knicks want him here. So give that boy his money and stop lollygagging about it.



But it costs us a max player next summer. He might barely even play this year so he’s not really risking much and he won’t even get paid that money til next season anyway. They just need to tell him they have every intention of giving him all of his money.

I’m sure management is talking to him about it the way Detroit did with Drummond. If the guy wants to win so badly, then he should take his time, rehab, rest, and understand we want to bring in another star to play with him next summer. After that, we sign him to a max. But it has to be in that order.

He’s gotta work with management n get on the same page if he wants to win. That’s what champ level star players do (Lebron, Wade, Durant, Duncan, Dirk, etc.)


Two things:

1. Signing Timmy cost the Knicks a max.
The Knicks don’t even have max money if they wait to sign KP. We’re not entitled to players leaving money on the table to come here.


2. They didn’t do that coming out of their rookie contracts. They all had extensions in place. Drummond is the same caliber player of KP. He’s in the Lavine/Gordon boat.



Naa, I posted numbers a couple times in other threads, but we def have the money if we stretch Noah (saves 13 mil) and dump CLee (prob have to attach a 2nd) by next summer.

I meant those superstars just working with management in general, not giving up money. The guy is gunna get all of it, and he’s gunna get it all at the same exact time he would with an extension, it’s just not making it official until the last minute.

Most importantly, he’s coming off a major injury at the time of extension, and we are exactly at the time where we can bring him another superstar player to help him win for the next several years. These aren’t normal circumstances. Asking him to work with us a bit isn’t too much to ask.

I dunno why he doesn’t just take his time coming back. If he barely even plays he doesn’t risk anything...n we kill 3 birds with one stone. We make sure he’s 100%, get a top lotto pick, and get a max player.

If the guy comes back in like January at 100% and we make a playoff push, then yea, he might want the extension asap in case he got hurt again during the season, and we’d prob have to give it to him. But that’s unlikely, and other than that, we’re better off waiting.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#186 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:15 pm

Sark wrote:
DowNY wrote:lol I don't understand why this is even still being discussed.
It makes total sense to squeeze a max player in before signing KP to an extension.

If KP truly has a problem with that, sign the QO (which lowers his cap hold even more) then we can run you into the ground the following season &/trade him. Simple.



Depends on who the max player is. They're not all created equal. I don't want to give a player a max deal that doesn't deserve one. Really the only ones we should be lookin at are available in 2021.

So then we should lock KP up and sit our asses down?

I’m with you....

Unless Kawhi wanna come through
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#187 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:17 pm

spree8 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
spree8 wrote:

But it costs us a max player next summer. He might barely even play this year so he’s not really risking much and he won’t even get paid that money til next season anyway. They just need to tell him they have every intention of giving him all of his money.

I’m sure management is talking to him about it the way Detroit did with Drummond. If the guy wants to win so badly, then he should take his time, rehab, rest, and understand we want to bring in another star to play with him next summer. After that, we sign him to a max. But it has to be in that order.

He’s gotta work with management n get on the same page if he wants to win. That’s what champ level star players do (Lebron, Wade, Durant, Duncan, Dirk, etc.)


Two things:

1. Signing Timmy cost the Knicks a max.
The Knicks don’t even have max money if they wait to sign KP. We’re not entitled to players leaving money on the table to come here.


2. They didn’t do that coming out of their rookie contracts. They all had extensions in place. Drummond is the same caliber player of KP. He’s in the Lavine/Gordon boat.



Naa, I posted numbers a couple times in other threads, but we def have the money if we stretch Noah (saves 13 mil) and dump CLee (prob have to attach a 2nd) by next summer.

I meant those superstars just working with management in general, not giving up money. The guy is gunna get all of it, and he’s gunna get it all at the same exact time he would with an extension, it’s just not making it official until the last minute.

Most importantly, he’s coming off a major injury at the time of extension, and we are exactly at the time where we can bring him another superstar player to help him win for the next several years. These aren’t normal circumstances. Asking him to work with us a bit isn’t too much to ask.

I dunno why he doesn’t just take his time coming back. If he barely even plays he doesn’t risk anything...n we kill 3 birds with one stone. We make sure he’s 100%, get a top lotto pick, and get a max player.

If the guy comes back in like January at 100% and we make a playoff push, then yea, he might want the extension asap in case he got hurt again during the season, and we’d prob have to give it to him. But that’s unlikely, and other than that, we’re better off waiting.



Spree, all of that maneuvering isn’t even needed if we didn’t sign Timmy.

That’s the point.

It will ALWAYS come back to the front office.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#188 » by spree8 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:31 pm

Greenie wrote:
spree8 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Two things:

1. Signing Timmy cost the Knicks a max.
The Knicks don’t even have max money if they wait to sign KP. We’re not entitled to players leaving money on the table to come here.


2. They didn’t do that coming out of their rookie contracts. They all had extensions in place. Drummond is the same caliber player of KP. He’s in the Lavine/Gordon boat.



Naa, I posted numbers a couple times in other threads, but we def have the money if we stretch Noah (saves 13 mil) and dump CLee (prob have to attach a 2nd) by next summer.

I meant those superstars just working with management in general, not giving up money. The guy is gunna get all of it, and he’s gunna get it all at the same exact time he would with an extension, it’s just not making it official until the last minute.

Most importantly, he’s coming off a major injury at the time of extension, and we are exactly at the time where we can bring him another superstar player to help him win for the next several years. These aren’t normal circumstances. Asking him to work with us a bit isn’t too much to ask.

I dunno why he doesn’t just take his time coming back. If he barely even plays he doesn’t risk anything...n we kill 3 birds with one stone. We make sure he’s 100%, get a top lotto pick, and get a max player.

If the guy comes back in like January at 100% and we make a playoff push, then yea, he might want the extension asap in case he got hurt again during the season, and we’d prob have to give it to him. But that’s unlikely, and other than that, we’re better off waiting.



Spree, all of that maneuvering isn’t even needed if we didn’t sign Timmy.

That’s the point.

It will ALWAYS come back to the front office.



Yea Mills fuq’d up again just like he did with Allan Houston. Perry is better than that tho, n he’s gotta clean up his mess.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#189 » by YouthMovement » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:36 pm

Greenie wrote:
YouthMovement wrote:
Greenie wrote:No one gets to use that as an excuse here.
If you’re the man, be the man. We can’t pick and choose who we give excuses to, no?

We haven’t had a PG since Jason Kidd retired. Didn’t matter when critiquing players.


nah i’m definitely gonna use that



And we will not acknowledge it.

Timmy’s PG was Jack too...


so what? timmy should have never gotten this contract and is 4 years older and substantially worse
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#190 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:47 pm

spree8 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
spree8 wrote:

Naa, I posted numbers a couple times in other threads, but we def have the money if we stretch Noah (saves 13 mil) and dump CLee (prob have to attach a 2nd) by next summer.

I meant those superstars just working with management in general, not giving up money. The guy is gunna get all of it, and he’s gunna get it all at the same exact time he would with an extension, it’s just not making it official until the last minute.

Most importantly, he’s coming off a major injury at the time of extension, and we are exactly at the time where we can bring him another superstar player to help him win for the next several years. These aren’t normal circumstances. Asking him to work with us a bit isn’t too much to ask.

I dunno why he doesn’t just take his time coming back. If he barely even plays he doesn’t risk anything...n we kill 3 birds with one stone. We make sure he’s 100%, get a top lotto pick, and get a max player.

If the guy comes back in like January at 100% and we make a playoff push, then yea, he might want the extension asap in case he got hurt again during the season, and we’d prob have to give it to him. But that’s unlikely, and other than that, we’re better off waiting.



Spree, all of that maneuvering isn’t even needed if we didn’t sign Timmy.

That’s the point.

It will ALWAYS come back to the front office.



Yea Mills fuq’d up again just like he did with Allan Houston. Perry is better than that tho, n he’s gotta clean up his mess.


Yeah, PERRY does.

Not KP :lol:
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#191 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:47 pm

YouthMovement wrote:
Greenie wrote:
YouthMovement wrote:
nah i’m definitely gonna use that



And we will not acknowledge it.

Timmy’s PG was Jack too...


so what? timmy should have never gotten this contract and is 4 years older and substantially worse

What’s good for the goose...
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#192 » by YouthMovement » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:08 pm

Greenie wrote:
YouthMovement wrote:
Greenie wrote:

And we will not acknowledge it.

Timmy’s PG was Jack too...


so what? timmy should have never gotten this contract and is 4 years older and substantially worse

What’s good for the goose...


nice one!

for the record timmy would be better with a pg too. just not defensively. a 7’3 kid asked to create off the dribble isn’t going to be highly efficient. both will benefit from a coach
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#193 » by cgf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:32 pm

cuyankees wrote:
cgf wrote:
cuyankees wrote:@ end of 2018-19 (this coming season), they’ll have close to 25mn of salary cap space INCLUDING Parsons, they dump him like they’ve been trying to do they’ll have close to 50mn. 0 chance MEM takes on Lee for their expirings wout assets like I said.


How? Unless Gasol opts out they'll have 91M committed to 3 players. They'd have at most 16M in cap space, with which to sign 12 guys, and that's if they renounced everyone (including their pick).

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=5330541425b4781452e7d4890566486

Ohhh, so MEM does have cap space, swear you used no cap space as the far fetched reason that MEM will deal for Lee.

This is a moot point, reality is if ANY team wanted Lee like most here pray for, he'd be gone by now. Lee does NOT get dumped unless Knicks add assets, sick of seeing all these ridiculous trades involving Lee, LT, THJ and Noah. All of those guys will require sig assets to unload simple as that.


Huh? They don't actually have cap space because they won't renounce every single player on their roster other than Gasol, Parsons & Conley...including their 1st next year & not signing their 1st this year lol

91M is just the lowest number they could possibly get to by shedding literally every single other salary & cap hold they have.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#194 » by DowNY » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:27 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Sark wrote:
DowNY wrote:lol I don't understand why this is even still being discussed.
It makes total sense to squeeze a max player in before signing KP to an extension.

If KP truly has a problem with that, sign the QO (which lowers his cap hold even more) then we can run you into the ground the following season &/trade him. Simple.



Depends on who the max player is. They're not all created equal. I don't want to give a player a max deal that doesn't deserve one. Really the only ones we should be lookin at are available in 2021.


Squeezing in contracts before giving the rookie extension is why POR & WAS are in the situations they’re in.

We need to learn from the mistakes of other teams. I’m with you. Rather roll it over via one year deals or salary dumps for assets


I feel y'all but I'm not turning away a Kyrie or Durant. Just my opinion though.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#195 » by dakomish23 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:27 pm

DowNY wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Sark wrote:

Depends on who the max player is. They're not all created equal. I don't want to give a player a max deal that doesn't deserve one. Really the only ones we should be lookin at are available in 2021.


Squeezing in contracts before giving the rookie extension is why POR & WAS are in the situations they’re in.

We need to learn from the mistakes of other teams. I’m with you. Rather roll it over via one year deals or salary dumps for assets


I feel y'all but I'm not turning away a Kyrie or Durant. Just my opinion though.


Dow that should be every Knicks fan opinion :lol:

I think what Sark is referring to is giving a max to a guy who’s not a max guy b/c you feel pressured due to KP’s extension kicking in.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#196 » by cgf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:38 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
DowNY wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Squeezing in contracts before giving the rookie extension is why POR & WAS are in the situations they’re in.

We need to learn from the mistakes of other teams. I’m with you. Rather roll it over via one year deals or salary dumps for assets


I feel y'all but I'm not turning away a Kyrie or Durant. Just my opinion though.


Dow that should be every Knicks fan opinion :lol:

I think what Sark is referring to is giving a max to a guy who’s not a max guy b/c you feel pressured due to KP’s extension kicking in.


I don't think anyone is suggesting we give a max offer to someone just to get it in before the KP extension. If we can't get Kyrie / KD we should explore using our cap space & our 2020 pick as a basis to trade for a star lead guard like Kemba or Dame, but if nothing's happening there either then we just have continue building up our young core, with an eye towards trying our luck again at the 2021 FA class if we can do so without impeding our kids growth.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#197 » by Sark » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:54 pm

If Durant wants to come here, of course you open the books to get him. He's signed through this year and next with a player option, which he will probably pick up. So 2020 is probably the most likely chance at him, which gives him time to watch our youth develop, and see if KP takes the next step to superstardom.

From our perspective, that's when Noah and Lee are off the books, and Hardaway would have 1 year left.

We really shouldn't use up that space in Summer 19. Save it for 2020 and beyond.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#198 » by cgf » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:23 am

If Kyrie wants to come here then I’m not passing up on that because it’ll mean we have to dump the last year of Timmy’s deal if KD wants to come to the Knicks as well
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#199 » by jstudabaka » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:03 am

Let KP be a restricted FA and match if it makes sense. The reality is, despite all the plaudits and potential, this guy has yet to have a really good NBA season under his belt. The first two years he came out of the gate strong, but then faded due to fatigue and injuries. Last year, he looked like an MVP for a month and then was tapering off until he got hurt.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#200 » by shtolky » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:32 pm

Capn'O wrote:
shtolky wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
:lol:




Stellar analogy.

We have 40m in space. Is this not a fact? If I get a D on a test and then nine straight A's, are those A's meaningless because of my D? Yes, Noah and THJ were dumb signings and yet we STILL have that space. When you make two bad mistakes like that and still have a boatload of cap space, you've done well with cap management. I never said perfect cap management.


It's a conditional fact. We have that option but it's a little misleading to tout it without the considerations that would accompany it. To get near 40 mil, we'd have to decline Frank's option, not sign Knox, and renounce all of our cap holds including KPs. This is also before you stretch Noah. If you keep KP's hold, sign Knox, and stretch Noah you're down to about 31 million. I don't know why they have Baker for another year and don't have Hezonja yet but that's the math.

The Knicks are in a tough spot in order to have that kind of space and keep their developing players. Once the Knicks bring back the players they should damn well be keeping there's not much left. We'd still have to wiggle significantly to have one max slot with good players behind it.



Also, this isn't school. If you have a dollar and you get some great deals for 1c but then spend 97c on something else you don't get extra credit because you're still **** out of money.



Ok, forget the 40m for a second. My initial response was that it's not possible to say we f'd up the cap while having room for a max FA. If we wait to extend KP (and we have more power in this than he does) and stretch Noah, just those two moves, I believe gets us to around 35m. Yes, I realize Knox is now on the cap as will another top 5 pick (oh the horror of having this).

That leaves us with:

KP - 17m cap hold
THJ - 18.1m
Lee - 12.8m
Lance - 1m guaranteed
Frank 4.8
Noah - roughly 6m
Knox - 4.4m
Let's say 2019 pick 5m
Dotson 1.8m
Robinson - 1.5m

That gives us around 36m in space without factoring in min cap holds given a 108m cap. That also assumes Lee is still here, but that speaks to your conditional argument, so let's assume he stays (there is also no need to deal him if we want a max guy, though it would certainly help). We would clearly be in the running for a max guy just by waiting for KP to sign (which we can do, he can't just up and leave), and stretching Noah, which is under our control. You can't say the cap was messed up while having that much space. Obviously we could have more space if we didn't sign Noah and THJ, but you can make mistakes with the cap and still be in a good situation. That's all.

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