Hawks hijacked
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Hawks hijacked
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Hawks hijacked
There is nothing worse that can happen to a pro sports team than to be bought by a greedy, short-term revenue investor. We now have 100% proof that that is exactly what Ressler is.
What does this mean for the Hawks? It means that you will see lots of shiny new things that will attract the distracted fan, music, entertainment, gimics and non-competitive Basketball decisions.
Case in point: J Lin. An expensive, damaged player brought in only because he has his own following.
It means that TSchlenk is a handicapped, yes sir, man, GM who is prioritising owners bank account over trying to build a competitor.
Was Trae TS's BPA or Ressler's biggest draw? The evidence says the latter and that really sucks.
As I've said before, my interest with the Hawks goes back to about 70 and I'll follow the team many more years...... and there is nothing that bothers me more in sports than newbie, short-term owners / management that isn't even here to compete. When they decide to capitalize and end their investment in the Hawks, I'll still be here.
In sports the one game you can not win is against the bad owner.
What does this mean for the Hawks? It means that you will see lots of shiny new things that will attract the distracted fan, music, entertainment, gimics and non-competitive Basketball decisions.
Case in point: J Lin. An expensive, damaged player brought in only because he has his own following.
It means that TSchlenk is a handicapped, yes sir, man, GM who is prioritising owners bank account over trying to build a competitor.
Was Trae TS's BPA or Ressler's biggest draw? The evidence says the latter and that really sucks.
As I've said before, my interest with the Hawks goes back to about 70 and I'll follow the team many more years...... and there is nothing that bothers me more in sports than newbie, short-term owners / management that isn't even here to compete. When they decide to capitalize and end their investment in the Hawks, I'll still be here.
In sports the one game you can not win is against the bad owner.
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Re: Hawks hijacked
Feel your pain. My beloved Dodgers were run into the ground by the McCourts for years before their terrible mismanagement embarassed MLB enough to force them to sell the team. Then those bastards profited like bandits cuz team value still shot up despite everyhthing. Also they kept a bunch of land around Dodger Stadium too, and theyre just raking in the dough hand over fist still, UGH.
Bad cheap owners + stupid GM led to a litany of stupid and wasteful moves. Where the team would SLASH their scouting department and draft pick signing bonus funds to the bone (we'd consistently drafted inferior players to be signed under slot signing bonus), while at the same time let a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) GM piss money away on craptons of terrible contracts.
It wouldnt be surprising for an owner that you describe to look at Lin as some sort of freakshow mascot that might trick some of his followers to, i dunno, buy ATL merch or goto games? I mean Lin at 12.5mil is NOT a cheap throwaway investment, and if Lin isnt healthy, well even his diehards arent gonna tune in to any games. Just seems like a waste of time for everyone, with the only losers are true ATL fans like yourself.
Bad cheap owners + stupid GM led to a litany of stupid and wasteful moves. Where the team would SLASH their scouting department and draft pick signing bonus funds to the bone (we'd consistently drafted inferior players to be signed under slot signing bonus), while at the same time let a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) GM piss money away on craptons of terrible contracts.
It wouldnt be surprising for an owner that you describe to look at Lin as some sort of freakshow mascot that might trick some of his followers to, i dunno, buy ATL merch or goto games? I mean Lin at 12.5mil is NOT a cheap throwaway investment, and if Lin isnt healthy, well even his diehards arent gonna tune in to any games. Just seems like a waste of time for everyone, with the only losers are true ATL fans like yourself.
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You must be a buzz kill at parties.
We have proof that is what Ressler wants to do? Because he used our cap space to trade for Lin? I really doubt the Lin fans would buy 12.5 million dollars in jerseys. Now I am not a huge fan of the deal, but if Dennis is being moved the deal makes sense. Dennis is not a good mentor or vet for Trae to look up to. Lin has the experience dealing with pressure (Linsanity was much bigger than anything Dennis has done) and at showing Trae what to expect of the point guard (scoring at a decent clip).
Can you please cite the evidence that Trae was not the BPA at 5? Trae was the best point guard in the class and the least headache of the players left. Should we have drafted a defensive big in Bamba? Or a player who has a crazy mother in Carter?
People have to understand that the Hawks were run into the ground before, thanks in part to the Spirit Group and then Bud. When Schlenk and the new group took over we were stuck with a team that contained a locker-room headache in Dwight, an overpaid defensive wing in Baze, and an overpaid headache in Dennis. We also had the 19th pick and a young wing who many felt was a reach when we drafted him. This team was not and is not a good team. The rebuild will take a while, and that isn't blaming Ressler or Schlenk.
We have proof that is what Ressler wants to do? Because he used our cap space to trade for Lin? I really doubt the Lin fans would buy 12.5 million dollars in jerseys. Now I am not a huge fan of the deal, but if Dennis is being moved the deal makes sense. Dennis is not a good mentor or vet for Trae to look up to. Lin has the experience dealing with pressure (Linsanity was much bigger than anything Dennis has done) and at showing Trae what to expect of the point guard (scoring at a decent clip).
Can you please cite the evidence that Trae was not the BPA at 5? Trae was the best point guard in the class and the least headache of the players left. Should we have drafted a defensive big in Bamba? Or a player who has a crazy mother in Carter?
People have to understand that the Hawks were run into the ground before, thanks in part to the Spirit Group and then Bud. When Schlenk and the new group took over we were stuck with a team that contained a locker-room headache in Dwight, an overpaid defensive wing in Baze, and an overpaid headache in Dennis. We also had the 19th pick and a young wing who many felt was a reach when we drafted him. This team was not and is not a good team. The rebuild will take a while, and that isn't blaming Ressler or Schlenk.
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dms269 wrote:You must be a buzz kill at parties.
We have proof that is what Ressler wants to do? Because he used our cap space to trade for Lin? I really doubt the Lin fans would buy 12.5 million dollars in jerseys. Now I am not a huge fan of the deal, but if Dennis is being moved the deal makes sense. Dennis is not a good mentor or vet for Trae to look up to. Lin has the experience dealing with pressure (Linsanity was much bigger than anything Dennis has done) and at showing Trae what to expect of the point guard (scoring at a decent clip).
Can you please cite the evidence that Trae was not the BPA at 5? Trae was the best point guard in the class and the least headache of the players left. Should we have drafted a defensive big in Bamba? Or a player who has a crazy mother in Carter?
People have to understand that the Hawks were run into the ground before, thanks in part to the Spirit Group and then Bud. When Schlenk and the new group took over we were stuck with a team that contained a locker-room headache in Dwight, an overpaid defensive wing in Baze, and an overpaid headache in Dennis. We also had the 19th pick and a young wing who many felt was a reach when we drafted him. This team was not and is not a good team. The rebuild will take a while, and that isn't blaming Ressler or Schlenk.
I believe that I mentioned to you that the team was being run into the ground back then, as I am doing now.
The way I see leadership is; we're on a train and somebody's got to drive it. We all know where the train is supposed to go, but for different reasons the temporary, paid drivers tend to get lost. Sometimes years go by and I still have the impression that I'm stuck at the train station and haven't gotten anywhere. Some day, sooner or later, somehow we'll find a driver that knows how to get where we're going. That is the driver I'll be happy to follow. As for the rest I won't be happy until they're gone.
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This is getting crazy. You know what the most valuable trade chip is at the midseason trade deadline? A $10-20 million expiring contract. I can't believe i'm here defending TS because i'm not really a fan so far, but he is playing the long game.
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Re: Hawks hijacked
tbhawksfan1 wrote:I believe that I mentioned to you that the team was being run into the ground back then, as I am doing now.
The way I see leadership is; we're on a train and somebody's got to drive it. We all know where the train is supposed to go, but for different reasons the temporary, paid drivers tend to get lost. Sometimes years go by and I still have the impression that I'm stuck at the train station and haven't gotten anywhere. Some day, sooner or later, somehow we'll find a driver that knows how to get where we're going. That is the driver I'll be happy to follow. As for the rest I won't be happy until they're gone.
This was true during the Rick Sund and BudCox eras. But not at all for the D Ferry and T Schlenk front offices.
They came in and immediately tore the place down to the studs. Rebuilding as they saw fit.
Schlenk told what he was going to do from the very start and has been true to his word.
Some of the minor moves have been head scratchers...but we're still in phase 1, homey.
Tear down and asset accumulation.
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Re: Hawks hijacked
tbhawksfan1 wrote:There is nothing worse that can happen to a pro sports team than to be bought by a greedy, short-term revenue investor. We now have 100% proof that that is exactly what Ressler is.
What does this mean for the Hawks? It means that you will see lots of shiny new things that will attract the distracted fan, music, entertainment, gimics and non-competitive Basketball decisions.
Case in point: J Lin. An expensive, damaged player brought in only because he has his own following.
It means that TSchlenk is a handicapped, yes sir, man, GM who is prioritizing owners bank account over trying to build a competitor.
In sports the one game you can not win is against the bad owner.
Ressler is not a bad owner. That new practice facility and medical complex is proof of that. He built that up, bought a G-League franchise, re-designed the Hawks stadium and gutted the team's roster.
Those are each long term investments with little short term payoff.
The franchise is much better off now because of his many investments. That has not been the case for previous ownership.
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Re: Hawks hijacked
Jamaaliver wrote:tbhawksfan1 wrote:There is nothing worse that can happen to a pro sports team than to be bought by a greedy, short-term revenue investor. We now have 100% proof that that is exactly what Ressler is.
What does this mean for the Hawks? It means that you will see lots of shiny new things that will attract the distracted fan, music, entertainment, gimics and non-competitive Basketball decisions.
Case in point: J Lin. An expensive, damaged player brought in only because he has his own following.
It means that TSchlenk is a handicapped, yes sir, man, GM who is prioritizing owners bank account over trying to build a competitor.
In sports the one game you can not win is against the bad owner.
Ressler is not a bad owner. That new practice facility and medical complex is proof of that. He built that up, bought a G-League franchise, re-designed the Hawks stadium and gutted the team's roster.
Those are each long term investments with little short term payoff.
The franchise is much better off now because of his many investments.
I wouldn't swear to it but pretty sure the new practice facility and med complex were in the works before REssler.
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macd-gm wrote:I wouldn't swear to it but pretty sure the new practice facility and med complex were in the works before REssler.
I think it had been discussed under previous ownership. But we all know very well Atlanta Spirit wasn't putting out the bucks for that deal.
Ressler and folks came into ownership spring 2015.
Practice facility was announced a year later:
Code: Select all
"When we became owners, one of our top priorities was to provide the resources necessary to build a world-class training facility—a key element of being a first-class franchise that consistently competes at the highest level," Hawks Principal Owner Tony Ressler said in a statement by the Hawks. "We are thrilled with the partnership that Steve and Bud have forged with Dr. Boden and the Emory team in developing a new facility that will be at the forefront of how professional teams approach integrating sports medical technology in their training centers."
Peachtree HoopsCEO Steve Koonin reiterated the idea that the new facility shows that the new ownership group has its priorities in line, and are doing what they can to improve the franchise in every way. "We are fortunate to have found a perfect partner in Emory.
...The development of this facility is another example of how Tony Ressler, Grant Hill and our ownership team have very quickly begun to implement their vision and provide the resources necessary to make our organization an industry leader.
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Re: Hawks hijacked
Jamaaliver wrote:tbhawksfan1 wrote:I believe that I mentioned to you that the team was being run into the ground back then, as I am doing now.
The way I see leadership is; we're on a train and somebody's got to drive it. We all know where the train is supposed to go, but for different reasons the temporary, paid drivers tend to get lost. Sometimes years go by and I still have the impression that I'm stuck at the train station and haven't gotten anywhere. Some day, sooner or later, somehow we'll find a driver that knows how to get where we're going. That is the driver I'll be happy to follow. As for the rest I won't be happy until they're gone.
This was true during the Rick Sund and BudCox eras. But not at all for the D Ferry and T Schlenk front offices.
They came in and immediately tore the place down to the studs. Rebuilding as they saw fit.
Schlenk told what he was going to do from the very start and has been true to his word.
Some of the minor moves have been head scratchers...but we're still in phase 1, homey.
Tear down and asset accumulation.
Yes. But no hedging and compromising. Trading down and out last draft and Lin are not full rebuild moves. Ferry had a plan but was historically bad at draft and ASG was much worse than Ressler.
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Re: Hawks hijacked
Jamaaliver wrote:tbhawksfan1 wrote:There is nothing worse that can happen to a pro sports team than to be bought by a greedy, short-term revenue investor. We now have 100% proof that that is exactly what Ressler is.
What does this mean for the Hawks? It means that you will see lots of shiny new things that will attract the distracted fan, music, entertainment, gimics and non-competitive Basketball decisions.
Case in point: J Lin. An expensive, damaged player brought in only because he has his own following.
It means that TSchlenk is a handicapped, yes sir, man, GM who is prioritizing owners bank account over trying to build a competitor.
In sports the one game you can not win is against the bad owner.
Ressler is not a bad owner. That new practice facility and medical complex is proof of that. He built that up, bought a G-League franchise, re-designed the Hawks stadium and gutted the team's roster.
Those are each long term investments with little short term payoff.
The franchise is much better off now because of his many investments. That has not been the case for previous ownership.
This is very debatable. The facility umgrades immediately up franchise value. You can be a chmpion and have a poor workout facility.
I am pleased with these moves, but my interest is on the court
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macd-gm wrote:This is getting crazy. You know what the most valuable trade chip is at the midseason trade deadline? A $10-20 million expiring contract. I can't believe i'm here defending TS because i'm not reallly a fan so far, but he is playing the long game.
Buuuuttt.....you know we could have had not 1 but 2 valuable trade chip expiring contracts - Faried at $13.7 and Arthur at $7.4, plus a 2019 1st AND a 2nd.
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jayu70 wrote:macd-gm wrote:This is getting crazy. You know what the most valuable trade chip is at the midseason trade deadline? A $10-20 million expiring contract. I can't believe i'm here defending TS because i'm not reallly a fan so far, but he is playing the long game.
Buuuuttt.....you know we could have had not 1 but 2 valuable trade chip expiring contracts - Faried at $13.7 and Arthur at $7.4, plus a 2019 1st AND a 2nd.
I don't understand how anyone can argue this. It was the trade we' were waiting for and had been promised. Lin trade was like getting hit in the face with a dead rotten fish
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I don't think anyone is saying that they prefer the Lin trade to the deal Brooklyn got with Faried.
But if that trade would have been an A, the Lin trade is likely a C. There haven't been any other salary dumps (other than the Chandler deal), but the market for that seems to have dried up. Lin isn't a horrible player (his most recent not-1-game-season was better than Dennis' last season), and if he shows he can play decently, I could see a dump for a 2 year player and a FRP.
But if that trade would have been an A, the Lin trade is likely a C. There haven't been any other salary dumps (other than the Chandler deal), but the market for that seems to have dried up. Lin isn't a horrible player (his most recent not-1-game-season was better than Dennis' last season), and if he shows he can play decently, I could see a dump for a 2 year player and a FRP.
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tbhawksfan1 wrote:jayu70 wrote:Buuuuttt.....you know we could have had not 1 but 2 valuable trade chip expiring contracts - Faried at $13.7 and Arthur at $7.4, plus a 2019 1st AND a 2nd.
I don't understand how anyone can argue this. It was the trade we' were waiting for and had been promised. Lin trade was like getting hit in the face with a dead rotten fish
Now, this criticism is valid.
Some of the other complaints less, so.
But this is indeed a fair question.
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Jamaaliver wrote:tbhawksfan1 wrote:jayu70 wrote:Buuuuttt.....you know we could have had not 1 but 2 valuable trade chip expiring contracts - Faried at $13.7 and Arthur at $7.4, plus a 2019 1st AND a 2nd.
I don't understand how anyone can argue this. It was the trade we' were waiting for and had been promised. Lin trade was like getting hit in the face with a dead rotten fish
Now, this criticism is valid.
Some of the other complaints less, so.
But this is indeed a fair question.
This has been my issue with the trade, not Lin the player or owner kerfuffle.....I just don't see it as a good use of capspace when considering the totality of the Denver/Bkn deal that followed and the actually asset we get is a potential pick swap 5 years from now and a 2nd 7 years from now.
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I've been extremely down on Ressler. He was the owner that let Horf / Sap walk. You know a GM is only as good as his owner.
I took a step back on Ressler when he let TS rebuild, but at that point there really was no other path. The Lin trade is so bad and so in the face of doing the rebuild right that Ressler is squarely back in my sights.
TS is just a new GM that hasn't done squat to convince me. Last summers moves sucked and Lin trade doomed this summer's moves.
Not looking good if you're counting on management to do everything possible to fully exploit the rebuild. If they don't,chances are that we'll just go through a long rebuild with a decent prime but fall far short of a chip. That is exactly what we spent the last 12 years living.
I took a step back on Ressler when he let TS rebuild, but at that point there really was no other path. The Lin trade is so bad and so in the face of doing the rebuild right that Ressler is squarely back in my sights.
TS is just a new GM that hasn't done squat to convince me. Last summers moves sucked and Lin trade doomed this summer's moves.
Not looking good if you're counting on management to do everything possible to fully exploit the rebuild. If they don't,chances are that we'll just go through a long rebuild with a decent prime but fall far short of a chip. That is exactly what we spent the last 12 years living.
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tbhawksfan1 wrote:I've been extremely down on Ressler. He was the owner that let Horf / Sap walk. You know a GM is only as good as his owner.
I took a step back on Ressler when he let TS rebuild, but at that point there really was no other path. The Lin trade is so bad and so in the face of doing the rebuild right that Ressler is squarely back in my sights.
TS is just a new GM that hasn't done squat to convince me. Last summers moves sucked and Lin trade doomed this summer's moves.
Not looking good if you're counting on management to do everything possible to fully exploit the rebuild. If they don't,chances are that we'll just go through a long rebuild with a decent prime but fall far short of a chip. That is exactly what we spent the last 12 years living.
On this...I respectfully disagree.
Ressler admitted to bungling the Horford negotiations and learning on the fly.
Sending people Horford didn't know to strong arm him in contract talks was clearly a misplay. The same mistake Pat Riley made with D-Wade in Summer '16.
But Ressler stated that Schlenk has full say; and since then Travis has completely changed the direction of the team and franchise...bringing in numerous GS cohorts along the way.
Travis Schlenk clearly has a plan...whether it works remains to be seen.
NOTE: I haven't loved multiple decisions, but none have come close to back breakers.
Drafting Trae Young is the first big decision I have to wonder about. Time will tell if it was the wisest play.
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jayu70 wrote:macd-gm wrote:This is getting crazy. You know what the most valuable trade chip is at the midseason trade deadline? A $10-20 million expiring contract. I can't believe i'm here defending TS because i'm not reallly a fan so far, but he is playing the long game.
Buuuuttt.....you know we could have had not 1 but 2 valuable trade chip expiring contracts - Faried at $13.7 and Arthur at $7.4, plus a 2019 1st AND a 2nd.
But that assumes that was an option for us. It obviously wasn't. Denver and Bkn traded together for a reason and we have no idea what it was. Obviously if TS had his choice he picks the Denver trade unless he is totally useless, but for some reason that wasn't an option. Denver and BKN have agendas too.