Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
nevetsov wrote:Cap related question - Duds is on $9.5m this season, in his final year. If we agree to a buy out with him for say $6.5m, does that then reduce his cap hit by $3m? And if so, can we use that capspace and roster spot to bring back Alan Williams?
Could we then give Dudley a front office/ assistant coaching gig for $3m to make up the salary difference?
BobbieL wrote:I caught the last few minutes of a segment with Gambo and he again mentioned Chandler. He mentioned that Chandler as a mentor was overblown. Again Gambia opinion. Mentioned willians or Cooley as options
Gambo also said he thinks they will clear or try to clear two roster spots. Chandler and Daniels perhaps?
I think Shaq and Reed are worth a spot.
Peters and King on two ways
gaspar wrote:nevetsov wrote:Cap related question - Duds is on $9.5m this season, in his final year. If we agree to a buy out with him for say $6.5m, does that then reduce his cap hit by $3m? And if so, can we use that capspace and roster spot to bring back Alan Williams?
Could we then give Dudley a front office/ assistant coaching gig for $3m to make up the salary difference?
Yes, it does, but I don't think Dudley has any plans to retire. He isn't that old.
bwgood77 wrote:Mischa wrote:The Bulls are like the Pistons in that they're going to be locked into what they've got, which is a long way from contention. That's if Lauri and Carter meet expectations, which is far from a done deal. Like Detroit, their ceiling would seem to be a playoff team. The one caveat is if one or both of those guys mentioned REALLY exceed expectations and become a franchise type player. I'm not betting on that happening. Good? Sure. Playoff team starting caliber? I'll buy that. Star you build a contender around? Nope.
I don't know. Markkanen was one of the best rookies and broke some 3 pt records for his age...he could be similar to Dirk and Carter is the most solid fundamentally sound big without many weaknesses that came out in this draft...maybe not with the upside, but a very high floor and a solid upside....he defends, hits the 3, blocks shots, does everything.
Lavine before getting injured was playing very well...his 3rd year he had efficiency #s similar to Booker and a better ast/to ratio.
Portis is decent..
Dunn looked much better.
I think they could be a team that makes a jump into the playoff race in the east. They were playing very very well at times before they tried to tank and if Lavine gets back to where he was pre injury and keeps developing and with the addition of Carter, I think they can be a pretty good team, especially if Dunn becomes that tough defensive solid PG people were hoping for.
I don't really think they need to add Parker...I wouldn't but I like everything else they have going on quite a bit.
Mischa wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Mischa wrote:The Bulls are like the Pistons in that they're going to be locked into what they've got, which is a long way from contention. That's if Lauri and Carter meet expectations, which is far from a done deal. Like Detroit, their ceiling would seem to be a playoff team. The one caveat is if one or both of those guys mentioned REALLY exceed expectations and become a franchise type player. I'm not betting on that happening. Good? Sure. Playoff team starting caliber? I'll buy that. Star you build a contender around? Nope.
I don't know. Markkanen was one of the best rookies and broke some 3 pt records for his age...he could be similar to Dirk and Carter is the most solid fundamentally sound big without many weaknesses that came out in this draft...maybe not with the upside, but a very high floor and a solid upside....he defends, hits the 3, blocks shots, does everything.
Lavine before getting injured was playing very well...his 3rd year he had efficiency #s similar to Booker and a better ast/to ratio.
Portis is decent..
Dunn looked much better.
I think they could be a team that makes a jump into the playoff race in the east. They were playing very very well at times before they tried to tank and if Lavine gets back to where he was pre injury and keeps developing and with the addition of Carter, I think they can be a pretty good team, especially if Dunn becomes that tough defensive solid PG people were hoping for.
I don't really think they need to add Parker...I wouldn't but I like everything else they have going on quite a bit.
I think they may well be a playoff team as well, but that's not really the goal as an endpoint.
bwgood77 wrote:Mischa wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
I don't know. Markkanen was one of the best rookies and broke some 3 pt records for his age...he could be similar to Dirk and Carter is the most solid fundamentally sound big without many weaknesses that came out in this draft...maybe not with the upside, but a very high floor and a solid upside....he defends, hits the 3, blocks shots, does everything.
Lavine before getting injured was playing very well...his 3rd year he had efficiency #s similar to Booker and a better ast/to ratio.
Portis is decent..
Dunn looked much better.
I think they could be a team that makes a jump into the playoff race in the east. They were playing very very well at times before they tried to tank and if Lavine gets back to where he was pre injury and keeps developing and with the addition of Carter, I think they can be a pretty good team, especially if Dunn becomes that tough defensive solid PG people were hoping for.
I don't really think they need to add Parker...I wouldn't but I like everything else they have going on quite a bit.
I think they may well be a playoff team as well, but that's not really the goal as an endpoint.
Well if they make the major rotation guys like 18-23 year old, I wouldn't say they are close to the end point.
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Mischa wrote:
I think they may well be a playoff team as well, but that's not really the goal as an endpoint.
Well if they make the major rotation guys like 18-23 year old, I wouldn't say they are close to the end point.
I think the Bulls are setting themselves to go up over the top with a FA acquisition. Lots of very good, but not spectacular, young players (with the possible exception of Markkanen). But the Jabari contract makes no sense. I'd consider something like a 1 year, $8 million deal with a TO for $10-ish. What they're talking about is crazy.
bwgood77 wrote:ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
Well if they make the major rotation guys like 18-23 year old, I wouldn't say they are close to the end point.
I think the Bulls are setting themselves to go up over the top with a FA acquisition. Lots of very good, but not spectacular, young players (with the possible exception of Markkanen). But the Jabari contract makes no sense. I'd consider something like a 1 year, $8 million deal with a TO for $10-ish. What they're talking about is crazy.
Well they have the cap space and there are not much for free agents left so with the team option in the 2nd year they can get their cap space back next summer.
In his 3rd year he was looking pretty good at 20/6/3/1 shooting 36.5% from 3 and their net rating was just about as good at the 3 as at the 4, so he was starting to play really well. Then he got injured again. Coming back last year he was a little slow but his 3 pt shooting was even better at 38.3%. Pretty much their entire starting lineup outside of Dunn is a good 3 pt shooter. It's just the defense that will suffer.
Barkley6 wrote:PhxLax wrote:LukasBMW wrote:Some of you have mentioned that our summer league team seemed to have trouble getting Ayton the ball. And I agree.
The problem is that 2 of our 3 probable point guards (Okobo and Shaq) were a big part of this problem. Many of their passes were picked off.
The other BIGGER problem is that our probable starting point guard (Brandon Knight) has a HUGE weakness throwing lobs, and making passes in traffic. I mean...it's almost comically bad. Knight only seems capable of making a basic chest pass when the coast is clear.
So again, I bring up the fact that we let Payton and Ulis go. Payton would have been cheap and was an excellent passer. Ulis played very well when he was not injured and was a great floor general.
I HATE HATE HATE the fact that we let two cheap point guards go who really have as much potential as anyone. A Knight/Payton competition for the starting spot would have been great with the loser competing against Ulis for backup duty.
Let's not forget that the PG we cut (Ulis) beat out our new starting PG (Knight) for backup duty FAIR and SQUARE in his ROOKIE year.
And don't tell me about how Shaq has looked great in summer league and that Okobo has also had his moments. BECUASE... Remember when Ulis DOMINATED summer league?????
We really REALLY **** up on our PG decisions.
THANK YOU. AMEN.
I'm kinda sick of people defending this whole Ariza signing and actually drinking the "he's a PF" kool-aid and how Knight-Okobo is a decent rotation.
It's not. It's terrible. Many if not ALL Knight conversations here just 24 months ago was about how he is awful, can't wait for buyout, blah blah. Then last year everybody's like he's hurt, we'll give him a pass, and this year everybody is like -- awesome! he's the starting pg. Love it.
Suns made a HUGE mistake signing another SF when they already have 3! Warren-Jackson-Bridges. Hmm, that's kinda like signing Isaiah Thomas to play with Bledsoe and Dragic. LoL!!!
They just had to strike early and get a PG... And don't give me this hogwash about how next year cap space blah blah blah.. And next year so many superstar pg's are free agents blah blah blah.
Face it: This Ariza wingman masked as a bigman is going to be a complete and utter failure and the sun's messed up big time by not addressing the point guard situation early.
Even worse trying to come up with a defense in arguing what I just said is quite shameful and shows how fans are totally inept and disillusioned.
I'll keep this going until Suns actually address the two positions the general manager promised he would address before the offseason. He specifically said they need to upgrade and have a new:
-PF
-PG
So far, 15 million dollars and 3 draft picks later, they've manage to address none of them and no don't say least they drafted Okobo.
Fail.
So, I agree i'm not sold at all on Ariza as a 4. Sure in spurts thats fine, but full time? HELL NO. I think the team was hoping to see more from Bender and thinking he could maybe make a push for starting 4 minutes before the season was over. Summer league has obviously told us differently.
As to the PG situation, from what I've seen of Koko's sets in summer league, the need for a ball dominant guard is really diminished because of all the passing and movement. There were times when Bender took the ball up the court himself, and then made the first pass to initiate the offense. Yes, having some drive and kick and PnR is nice, but I really don't think that's what this offense thrives on. It's more pass and move. A PG who needs the ball a lot to be effective probably isn't the best fit in this offense, and it's also probably why Slovenia was able to find a way to allow Goran and Doncic to coexist so effectively even though they are both primary ball handlers.
BobbieL wrote:The Nets are in asset building mode. I wonder if they would be open for Chandler/Daniels for DeMarre Carroll (maybe Faired) if the Suns flip a second rounder. Suns move two players for the price of one roster spot. Nets get another second rounder - odds are - -pretty good pick. All players involved are expirings. Suns buy out either player and sign a guy like Alan Williams and maybe Teodosic or another PG type with the 4.4m exception. Suns may not need Williams if they have Faried.
Damkac wrote:gaspar wrote:nevetsov wrote:Cap related question - Duds is on $9.5m this season, in his final year. If we agree to a buy out with him for say $6.5m, does that then reduce his cap hit by $3m? And if so, can we use that capspace and roster spot to bring back Alan Williams?
Could we then give Dudley a front office/ assistant coaching gig for $3m to make up the salary difference?
Yes, it does, but I don't think Dudley has any plans to retire. He isn't that old.
He looks like he retired 10 years ago.
Cutter wrote:I sort of feel like we have one more Tank in us before we begin to really try to compete.
Even if Booker takes another step and Ayton plays like a #1 pick should play we aren't winning a lot of games. I'm not saying we'll have the worst record in the league, I just don't see a lot of wins with the projected starting line up being discussed.
I hope I'm wrong though.....
Frank Lee wrote:Reasonable optimism Bfoot… yeah we’re better…
I don’t see a tank coming, I see a team that’s going to try to win but wont. So far, outside of the expected number one pick, this has been a thumb-twiddling off season
jcsunsfan wrote:Damkac wrote:gaspar wrote:Yes, it does, but I don't think Dudley has any plans to retire. He isn't that old.
He looks like he retired 10 years ago.
This is in response to the original question.
A buyout does NOT impact his cap number unless his deal is stretched or something. But there is no reason to stretch any players unless we want to sign someone else now. No player is going to take a 30% discount for a buyout either (but I assume your numbers were just for the sake of the example).
(5) In the event that a Team and a player agree to amend a Player
Contract to reduce the amount of the player’s protected
Compensation in accordance with Article II, Section 3(n), then: (i)
for purposes of calculating the player’s Salary for the then-current
and any remaining Salary Cap Year covered by the Contract,
notwithstanding any stretch of the player’s protected
Compensation payment schedule, the aggregate reduction in the
player’s protected Compensation shall be allocated pro rata over
the then-current and each remaining Salary Cap Year on the basis
of the remaining unearned protected Base Compensation in each
such Salary Cap Year; and (ii) the Team shall not be permitted to
sign the player to a new Player Contract (or claim the player off of
waivers) before the later of: (x) one (1) year following the date that
the player’s Player Contract with such Team was terminated; or (y)
the July 1 following the last Season of such Player Contract.
bwgood77 wrote:jcsunsfan wrote:Damkac wrote:He looks like he retired 10 years ago.
This is in response to the original question.
A buyout does NOT impact his cap number unless his deal is stretched or something. But there is no reason to stretch any players unless we want to sign someone else now. No player is going to take a 30% discount for a buyout either (but I assume your numbers were just for the sake of the example).
It does impact the cap number. I looked this up like a week ago. If the buyout is for a contract with multiple seasons left, the buyout number gets prorated over the remaining number of years...if it's one year it would obviously just reduce the cap hit that year. I posted the link to the new CBA and language when I looked it up.
Edit: Here is the clause from page 223 of the CBA..(5) In the event that a Team and a player agree to amend a Player
Contract to reduce the amount of the player’s protected
Compensation in accordance with Article II, Section 3(n), then: (i)
for purposes of calculating the player’s Salary for the then-current
and any remaining Salary Cap Year covered by the Contract,
notwithstanding any stretch of the player’s protected
Compensation payment schedule, the aggregate reduction in the
player’s protected Compensation shall be allocated pro rata over
the then-current and each remaining Salary Cap Year on the basis
of the remaining unearned protected Base Compensation in each
such Salary Cap Year; and (ii) the Team shall not be permitted to
sign the player to a new Player Contract (or claim the player off of
waivers) before the later of: (x) one (1) year following the date that
the player’s Player Contract with such Team was terminated; or (y)
the July 1 following the last Season of such Player Contract.
http://3c90sm37lsaecdwtr32v9qof-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/2017-NBA-NBPA-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement.pdf