Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" Agrees to 4 year 52$ million deal page 32

[Froob]

Is it unpopular to say Rozier is a better point? I thinks Smart’s playmaking is a bit overrated he seems to have more stupid turnovers.

I think both are better as a secondary creator, Smart at either the 2 or the 3 with a tradiontal point guard and Rozier at the 1 with a point forward (because Rozier can’t guard bigger guys).

I kinda see them as different positions and it’s not because Smart has a few inches on him. Smart is much much stronger than Rozier.

[GuyClinch]

Smart's value is not created in a vacuum. Ainge has faith in his Smart replacements thus no offers have been made to Smart. This is the writing on the wall kind of thing.. Offense wins championships and puts fans in the seats..this why Parker got 20 mill and Smart has not even got 12 thus far..

[Larry Legend 33]

The thing is getting more ridiculous by the minute. Dude hasn’t achieved nothing in his career, he should stop asking for something he hasn’t earned. I’m worried this douche is gonna ruin our season.

He's really not asking for a lot though. If Dante Exum is getting $11 mil/yr, Smart is correct in asking for $13 mil/yr.

Celtics aren't going to outbid themselves but also want to sign him long term since next summer having all of Rozier, Smart, and Kyrie as FA's isn't ideal

If what he's demanding is so reasonable, someone would have made him that offer already. His value is determined by the market in RFA, and we're seeing that it's not as high as Marcus believes.

[threrf23]

If what he's demanding is so reasonable, someone would have made him that offer already. His value is determined by the market in RFA, and we're seeing that it's not as high as Marcus believes.

This is bs. If he was unrestricted there's a decent chance he could have been offered much more.

I guess by some philosophy, the fact he is restricted and hasn't received any offer besides the QO lowers his market value to the QO right now in a one year deal. But by that same philosophy, given teams' cap situations, historic contracts, a rising cap and other factors, he stands to be worth maybe $15 mil next offseason and possibly 25+ mil in two seasons. If you average projections and weigh the value of certainty, in a four year deal that would probably make him worth about $13-14 mil per season right now. That's the biggest irony I see in these threads, IMO the same logic that says he isn't worth a penny more than the QO is IMO the same logic that says he is justified to seek a 4 yr $75 mil deal. The answer is in between.

I've said in another thread - the market dictates possibilities. Beyond providing a contextual backdrop, it does not dictate fair, unfair, smart, productive or destructive.

[Larry Legend 33]

If what he's demanding is so reasonable, someone would have made him that offer already. His value is determined by the market in RFA, and we're seeing that it's not as high as Marcus believes.

This is bs. If he was unrestricted there's a decent chance he could have been offered much more.

I guess by some philosophy, the fact he is restricted and hasn't received any offer besides the QO lowers his market value to the QO right now in a one year deal. But by that same philosophy, given teams' cap situations, historic contracts, a rising cap and other factors, he stands to be worth maybe $15 mil next offseason and possibly 25+ mil in two seasons. If you average projections and weigh the value of certainty, in a four year deal that would probably make him worth about $13-14 mil per season right now. That's the biggest irony I see in these threads, IMO the same logic that says he isn't worth a penny more than the QO is IMO the same logic that says he is justified to seek a 4 yr $75 mil deal. The answer is in between.

I've said in another thread - the market dictates possibilities. Beyond providing a contextual backdrop, it does not dictate fair, unfair, smart, productive or destructive.

I didn't say he was only worth the QO, no idea where you got that from. But if you think Marcus is going to be (or even has the potential to be) worth 25M+ in 2 years time, then we fundamentally disagree on the quality of player he is.

[threrf23]

I didn't say he was only worth the QO, no idea where you got that from. But if you think Marcus is going to be (or even has the potential to be) worth 25M+ in 2 years time, then we fundamentally disagree on the quality of player he is.

To clarify, I wasn't saying I thought he'd be worth 25+ mil in two years; but I think there is theoretically a real chance he can get that on the open market two season from now if he is unrestricted. The cap will be higher and I expect a number of teams to have cap space.

[Larry Legend 33]

I didn't say he was only worth the QO, no idea where you got that from. But if you think Marcus is going to be (or even has the potential to be) worth 25M+ in 2 years time, then we fundamentally disagree on the quality of player he is.

To clarify, I wasn't saying I thought he'd be worth 25+ mil in two years; but I think there is theoretically a real chance he can get that on the open market two season from now if he is unrestricted. The cap will be higher and I expect a number of teams to have cap space.

The cap is projected at $116M for the 20/21 season. So $25M in 20/21 is equivalent to $22M under the current cap. Imagine teams this summer have cap space, is anyone clamoring for the worst shooter in the league for $22M? Nope.

[threrf23]

The cap is projected at $116M for the 20/21 season. So $25M in 20/21 is equivalent to $22M under the current cap. Imagine teams this summer have cap space, is anyone clamoring for the worst shooter in the league for $22M? Nope.

No but they are clamoring for guys like Jabari Parker and Dante Exum and Zach Lavine and there isn't so much cap space to go around. If he can improve his game a little and be part of a really good if not two-time champion C's team, he'll find a taker.

(which is part of the reason I like the concept of a two year deal, let him try and earn a big contract while trying to help us win a championship in the process)

[undertaker0]

He'll be back next year but depends on if it's on a long term deal or a 1 yr deal. We need him to beat Golden State. That is a fact and management knows that.

[Celts17Pride]

He'll be back next year but depends on if it's on a long term deal or a 1 yr deal. We need him to beat Golden State. That is a fact and management knows that.

Not if the Kings decide to give Smart $14-15 million per year. TBD.

[undertaker0]

He'll be back next year but depends on if it's on a long term deal or a 1 yr deal. We need him to beat Golden State. That is a fact and management knows that.

Not if the Kings decide to give Smart $14-15 million per year. TBD.

The credible media members say they have no interest in him but we'll see

[Celts17Pride]

He'll be back next year but depends on if it's on a long term deal or a 1 yr deal. We need him to beat Golden State. That is a fact and management knows that.

Not if the Kings decide to give Smart $14-15 million per year. TBD.

The credible media members say they have no interest in him but we'll see

TBD

[Edug27]

He'll be back next year but depends on if it's on a long term deal or a 1 yr deal. We need him to beat Golden State. That is a fact and management knows that.

Not if the Kings decide to give Smart $14-15 million per year. TBD.

Why would they do such a thing??

[Celts17Pride]

He'll be back next year but depends on if it's on a long term deal or a 1 yr deal. We need him to beat Golden State. That is a fact and management knows that.

Not if the Kings decide to give Smart $14-15 million per year. TBD.

Why would they do such a thing??

Logic says they wouldn’t but they are the Kings

[Edug27]

Not if the Kings decide to give Smart $14-15 million per year. TBD.

Why would they do such a thing??

Logic says they wouldn’t but they are the Kings

Touché

[undertaker0]

He'll be back next year but depends on if it's on a long term deal or a 1 yr deal. We need him to beat Golden State. That is a fact and management knows that.

Not if the Kings decide to give Smart $14-15 million per year. TBD.

Why would they do such a thing??

If they want Smart they'll have to overpay since he's a RFA but fit wise I would just run with Fox if I were them and accelerate his development

[celtxman]

Not if the Kings decide to give Smart $14-15 million per year. TBD.

The credible media members say they have no interest in him but we'll see

TBD

All this stuff is TBD as was IT not that long ago. But in real time Ainge has to try to balance keeping Smart and keeping him happy with hitting a price level that would be detrimental longer term. I personally think that 2 yr $20 million - no player option might be reasonable and save face for both sides. We're all just guessing but I see Sacramento being able to get better using their cap space for a bad contract and getting draft pick for their service . I see more value for the Celtics getting two years of Smart's playing ability/tradeability, then givng him playing time on a Celtics team he absolutely has no future for, and the Celtics get no use of his salary in any way. Smart, in effect, gets $14 million for the second season. Smart, in the process should fire Happy Walters, and could save some more face in that the salary demands were coaxed by an agent who already lost Noel tens of millions of dollars

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

If what he's demanding is so reasonable, someone would have made him that offer already. His value is determined by the market in RFA, and we're seeing that it's not as high as Marcus believes.

This is bs. If he was unrestricted there's a decent chance he could have been offered much more.

I guess by some philosophy, the fact he is restricted and hasn't received any offer besides the QO lowers his market value to the QO right now in a one year deal. But by that same philosophy, given teams' cap situations, historic contracts, a rising cap and other factors, he stands to be worth maybe $15 mil next offseason and possibly 25+ mil in two seasons. If you average projections and weigh the value of certainty, in a four year deal that would probably make him worth about $13-14 mil per season right now. That's the biggest irony I see in these threads, IMO the same logic that says he isn't worth a penny more than the QO is IMO the same logic that says he is justified to seek a 4 yr $75 mil deal. The answer is in between.

I've said in another thread - the market dictates possibilities. Beyond providing a contextual backdrop, it does not dictate fair, unfair, smart, productive or destructive.

I’d bet money on it next year he’s not getting what he wants. And I don’t gamble. But that’s an easy cash grab for me. I’d take all your money.

[Larry Legend 33]

The cap is projected at $116M for the 20/21 season. So $25M in 20/21 is equivalent to $22M under the current cap. Imagine teams this summer have cap space, is anyone clamoring for the worst shooter in the league for $22M? Nope.

No but they are clamoring for guys like Jabari Parker and Dante Exum and Zach Lavine and there isn't so much cap space to go around. If he can improve his game a little and be part of a really good if not two-time champion C's team, he'll find a taker.

(which is part of the reason I like the concept of a two year deal, let him try and earn a big contract while trying to help us win a championship in the process)

Exum got $11M, which is a lot different than the $25M ($22M in current dollars) contract you're floating as a possibility for Marcus. Lavine & Parker got around that $20M mark yearly, and the reason is upside. Both had major injuries, so the Bulls are gambling on them fulfilling their potential. Problem for Marcus is he hasn't improved in 4 years, he is what he is at this point. Not to mention offense puts asses in seats and thus gets rewarded in contracts - not great for Marcus.

[celticfan42487]

Is it unpopular to say Rozier is a better point? I thinks Smart’s playmaking is a bit overrated he seems to have more stupid turnovers.

I think both are better as a secondary creator, Smart at either the 2 or the 3 with a tradiontal point guard and Rozier at the 1 with a point forward (because Rozier can’t guard bigger guys).

I kinda see them as different positions and it’s not because Smart has a few inches on him. Smart is much much stronger than Rozier.

I'd say it's unpopular with some very outspoken Smart fans for you to say that, but that's not an unpopular opinion. It's one that I share and Smart's playmaking is very overrated by some in Boston that listen to Tommy too much without tempering his shtick with reality.

I think people underestimate the importance for a PG these days to not only be able to handle the ball but also be able to beat your man one on one and knock down 3s. It's part of the reasons I was really concerned about any team drafting Lonzo Ball as their "transformative" primary ballhandler... he's starting handicapped because he can't easily get by the man in front of him... it makes things so much more difficult. I think all 3 of those assets are absolutely crucial to play point today ( ball control, playmaking, triple threat skill).

But also if you generally feel both are best served as secondary creators then generally you see Rozier as the better fit long term, because if you take the ball out of both of their hands one shoots 40% from 3 on catch and shoots and the other shoots like Marcus Smart.

But I 100% agree and see them as different players. I see Smart if he comes back getting minutes at SF and having no strong issues doing that.

I see Rozier strength wise only being able to guard PGs well (or small small guards).

But yeah I see their role on our team going forward most importantly, but any team that has talent to win being the secondary creator with all-stars doing the playmaking or a creative PG off the bench/point forward like Horford.

With our team they'll play off ball with Irving and Hayward creating, and through sets Horford will create. Who knows if Tatum will develop to the point where he will become a goto creator too but that's certainly a possibility.