Bullock

hoophabit · Post #1 » by **hoophabit** » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:47 pm

I suppose it was a foregone conclusion, but not waiving Bullock is an opportunity for stupidity averted? No celebration at all?

Post #2 » by **Snakebites** » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:00 pm

Yeah, it's one of those things that was just taken as a given.

If you had asked me before that news came out, I wouldn't have even been sure this season WAS a team option, honestly.

whitehops · Post #3 » by **whitehops** » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:51 pm

hoophabit wrote:I suppose it was a foregone conclusion, but not waiving Bullock is an opportunity for stupidity averted? No celebration at all?

i guess we could've declined and then signed richard jefferson or someone to the vet min to save $750K or so...

Kilo · Post #4 » by **Kilo** » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:03 pm

It's interesting that they even waited until the deadline. Makes me believe they were exploring other options, whether it be replace him with a vet minimum guy or trade him as an non-guaranteed deal to a team looking to cut money now. I mean why not send a message to the guy right away that he's a valued member of the team and part of the core and pick up the guarantee right away?

In case he blew out his knee in off-season workouts and thus you'd cut him to sign somebody else? I guess it's good raw business, but terrible employee relations.

The_Irony · Post #5 » by **The_Irony** » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:39 pm

Kilo wrote:It's interesting that they even waited until the deadline. Makes me believe they were exploring other options, whether it be replace him with a vet minimum guy or trade him as an non-guaranteed deal to a team looking to cut money now. I mean why not send a message to the guy right away that he's a valued member of the team and part of the core and pick up the guarantee right away?

In case he blew out his knee in off-season workouts and thus you'd cut him to sign somebody else? I guess it's good raw business, but terrible employee relations.

why rush when they didn't have to?

Kilo · Post #6 » by **Kilo** » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:11 pm

The_Irony wrote:
Kilo wrote:It's interesting that they even waited until the deadline. Makes me believe they were exploring other options, whether it be replace him with a vet minimum guy or trade him as an non-guaranteed deal to a team looking to cut money now. I mean why not send a message to the guy right away that he's a valued member of the team and part of the core and pick up the guarantee right away?

In case he blew out his knee in off-season workouts and thus you'd cut him to sign somebody else? I guess it's good raw business, but terrible employee relations.

why rush when they didn't have to?

To send the message that this guy is seen as an important piece you want to build a relationship with rather than an afterthought like Moreland or Buycks who you see as disposable and replaceable and not in long term plans.

We'll only have his EBR meaning we can only offer 175% of this years salary, and since he's making only $2.5M we can only offer $4,375,000 -
I mean I guess he's a goner anyways if he repeats his last season, so given that he's probably more valuable as a trade chip to a team who might have the cap space to keep him.

bballnmike · Post #7 » by **bballnmike** » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:52 pm

Kilo wrote:It's interesting that they even waited until the deadline. Makes me believe they were exploring other options, whether it be replace him with a vet minimum guy or trade him as an non-guaranteed deal to a team looking to cut money now. I mean why not send a message to the guy right away that he's a valued member of the team and part of the core and pick up the guarantee right away?

In case he blew out his knee in off-season workouts and thus you'd cut him to sign somebody else? I guess it's good raw business, but terrible employee relations.

Only reason I could think of is if there was some kind of benefit to our cap hold when signing the vet min guys, and then picking up Bullock's option. I'm not aware of any rule like that though, just throwing it out there. Something with timing of picking up the option after we sign everyone else :dontknow:

coordinator0 · Post #8 » by **coordinator0** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:02 am

Non-guaranteed contracts aren't like options. A team doesn't "pick up" the guarantee. It's just a deadline where something either happens or it doesn't.

tmorgan · Post #9 » by **tmorgan** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:34 am

Given the contract situation, if the team goes south early, Bullock has real trade value. He's proven he can shoot and defend... when he's healthy.

Canadafan · Post #10 » by **Canadafan** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:26 pm

tmorgan wrote:Given the contract situation, if the team goes south early, Bullock has real trade value. He's proven he can shoot and defend... when he's healthy.

Wouldn't be surprised if they're shopping him around now. We can only offer him a small increase from what he makes now so we'll be priced out and lose him for nothing. Between him and Ish(expiring) and Ellenson we should be able to get a good player locked up for a few years. Add in Galloway and we get out from under that horrible contract and we get Fournier or Bazemore. Bazemore only signed for 2 yrs so that fits our timeline better.

thesack12 · Post #11 » by **thesack12** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:31 pm

tmorgan wrote:Given the contract situation, if the team goes south early, Bullock has real trade value. He's proven he can shoot and defend... when he's healthy.

I agree with you.

The problem is, unless you attach him to another outgoing player his contract is a little bit of a detriment for trading purposes because its so cheap. Its going to be REALLY tough to find a trade partner on a one for one deal. There are very few players in the league in the range of Bullock's salary, that A) teams would be willing to give up, and B) Detroit would actually want to move an asset for.

I don't think he is good enough for a team to absorb him in a TPE and send a 1st to Detroit. I can see someone doing this and sending a 2nd, but I only see that happening if Detroit has fallen in the standings by the deadline. if Detroit is in the thick of the playoff hunt, I sincerely doubt they trade their best shooter for a mere 2nd.

The best avenue to trade Bullock,if he is going to be dealt, probably lies within attaching him to Leuer or Galloway to dump either of those guys with Detroit getting a shorter term contract in return.

BadMofoPimp · Post #12 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Kilo wrote:It's interesting that they even waited until the deadline. Makes me believe they were exploring other options, whether it be replace him with a vet minimum guy or trade him as an non-guaranteed deal to a team looking to cut money now. I mean why not send a message to the guy right away that he's a valued member of the team and part of the core and pick up the guarantee right away?

In case he blew out his knee in off-season workouts and thus you'd cut him to sign somebody else? I guess it's good raw business, but terrible employee relations.

Exploring trade scenarios first?

tmorgan · Post #13 » by **tmorgan** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:46 pm

If we suck, I'm totally down for Bullock + Galloway or Leuer (or both!) for an expiring.

Bullock is solid and all, but he's gonna get overpaid the following year. And, although the results say otherwise, he's not our best shooter. That's Kennard.

Post #14 » by **Snakebites** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:02 pm

tmorgan wrote:If we suck, I'm totally down for Bullock + Galloway or Leuer (or both!) for an expiring.

Bullock is solid and all, but he's gonna get overpaid the following year. And, although the results say otherwise, he's not our best shooter. That's Kennard.

I'd be down for a deal like that now, really.

Bullock is a very nice player and definitely the best of our wing players, but who knows if he can replicate last years' success, and as you say his price could prevent him from being a part of the core in the future.

He's definitely less valuable than a first rounder for us right now.\

We're in compete now mode though, so trading a likely starter as a salary dump is a very unlikely move though, even if we struggle early. At least IMO.

hoophabit · Post #15 » by **hoophabit** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:20 pm

Much as I expected them to pick up this year, it would not surprise me if he were involved in a trade.

mercury · Post #16 » by **mercury** » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:55 pm

The right thing to do is move SJ for expiring... monies to be used to re-sign Bullock... dumb concept but the best player at the position should be rewarded.

Kilo · Post #17 » by **Kilo** » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:17 am

Bullock had a good season last year, but there is reason why we signed him at the end of the FA period to a team friendly 1 + TO 2.5M/year deal. If he repeats last season or further improves we cannot afford him anyways. He's basically at his trade value peak for us right now.

That being said I don't think he further breaks out in any way that gets him more than MLE offers, and I believe we can spend our MLE on him, just can only use EBR on him otherside if we spend our MLE elsewhere.

I also expect that we'll go into the tax next season - tax doesn't really start until years 3-4+, Reggie, Leuer, Galloway come off after next season, Dre the year after than and Griffin after two more seasons. So that would be three seasons at most paying the tax before our big money contracts are all off the books with only Dre potentially re-upped, but given where his position salaries are trending he could be looking at a pay cut with his next deal here, or anywhere else.

Our "window" is 19-20, 20-21, 21-22 seasons - pay the tax those three years and then reset with two years out of the tax after them.

coordinator0 · Post #18 » by **coordinator0** » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:27 am

Detroit is right around $115 million in salary for the 2019-20 season. Declining Ellenson's option saves them about $3 million more. The projected salary cap for that season is $109 million and the luxury tax should be around $130 million. Even if Bullock does well this season he won't be pricing himself out of Detroit's price range. Granted, they wouldn't be players for much else if they re-signed Reggie... but he's the best they're likely to attract anyways.

The Pistons need Bullock (assuming he doesn't regress). Even if/when Kennard steps up shooting is at a premium if the plan is to build with Griffin and Drummond. That's not even a debate. Those two can play together. At this point let Stanley walk or trade him during the season given he should be at least a minor plus asset.

Canadafan · Post #19 » by **Canadafan** » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:20 am

coordinator0 wrote:Detroit is right around $115 million in salary for the 2019-20 season. Declining Ellenson's option saves them about $3 million more. The projected salary cap for that season is $109 million and the luxury tax should be around $130 million. Even if Bullock does well this season he won't be pricing himself out of Detroit's price range. Granted, they wouldn't be players for much else if they re-signed Reggie... but he's the best they're likely to attract anyways.

The Pistons need Bullock (assuming he doesn't regress). Even if/when Kennard steps up shooting is at a premium if the plan is to build with Griffin and Drummond. That's not even a debate. Those two can play together. At this point let Stanley walk or trade him during the season given he should be at least a minor plus asset.

We can only offer him 175% of this year's contract so just over $4mil which would most likely mean we'd lose him

coordinator0 · Post #20 » by **coordinator0** » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:25 am

Canadafan wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:Detroit is right around $115 million in salary for the 2019-20 season. Declining Ellenson's option saves them about $3 million more. The projected salary cap for that season is $109 million and the luxury tax should be around $130 million. Even if Bullock does well this season he won't be pricing himself out of Detroit's price range. Granted, they wouldn't be players for much else if they re-signed Reggie... but he's the best they're likely to attract anyways.

The Pistons need Bullock (assuming he doesn't regress). Even if/when Kennard steps up shooting is at a premium if the plan is to build with Griffin and Drummond. That's not even a debate. Those two can play together. At this point let Stanley walk or trade him during the season given he should be at least a minor plus asset.

We can only offer him 175% of this year's contract so just over $4mil which would most likely mean we'd lose him

As far as I can tell Detroit will have Bullock on his full Bird rights next summer. You might be confusing this with Detroit having Early Bird rights with Ennis this summer.