Kawhi Thread, Numero 4 -- Traded to Raptors for DeRozan, others

[Slax]

Nah, Neo eventually surpasses Morpheus.

It's more like we're Neo and they're Smith. Perpetually right about at our level, sometimes seeming a bit above, sometimes a bit below, but never quite able to close the deal when it really counts.

I think they're more like that weird squid robot that Neo disabled in like ten seconds with his completely inexplicable real world superpowers at the end of the second movie, but to each his own.

Neo doesn't surpass Morpheus. The One does.

Nerd.

[Banks2Pierce]

Can't believe that was the best they could do.

That's a terrible deal for SA. They're screwed.

This is ultimately where I'm at. The 1st is not good, Poeltl is decent but I don't see him as a gamechanger, and Derozan is a flat track bully that is going to have a sharp decline after losing his athleticism and will be 29 before the season starts. Yikes. Oladipo was at least in his mid 20s and had potential for growth. I don't see upside and they've also capped themselves out as well.

[ddb]

I'm glad this Kawhi saga is over. Listen, none of us should be that surprised here. Things we knew:

#1- He wanted out of SA
#2- Spurs didn't want to deal him in the West
#3- Boston and Philly weren't willing to include key pieces without assurance that Kawhi would extend
#4- Kawhi wasn't going to extend
#5- A mystery team (we threw the Bucks, Raptors and Heat as possibilities) would ultimately get him

Boom, done. Have fun in Toronto with Drake you weird-o. Celtics over Raptors in 6 in the East Finals

C’s in 5. They are leaps and bounds better if healthy.

Lowry-Green-Kawhi-Ibaka-Jonas is a heck of a defensive unit, though. Would make for an interesting series. I think Toronto would be a difficult team to beat in the playoffs. They'd still have Van Fleet-Miles-OG-Siakam off the bench. they need to pick up a backup Center so keep an eye out for them adding a big

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Can't believe that was the best they could do.

That's a terrible deal for SA. They're screwed.

I can believe it. KL really put the spurs in a tough spot by saying he is leaving for the Lakers. Who knows if it will happen but is was enough to scare teams off and limit the spurs options. KL apparently doesn't want to play for the raps so this already isn't off to a great start.

I don't think it is the bad for the spurs. I think DD is a solid player.

[bucknersrevenge]

Can't believe that was the best they could do.

That's a terrible deal for SA. They're screwed.

This is ultimately where I'm at. The 1st is not good, Poeltl is decent but I don't see him as a gamechanger, and Derozan is a flat track bully that is going to have a sharp decline after losing his athleticism and will be 29 before the season starts. Yikes. Oladipo was at least in his mid 20s and had potential for growth. I don't see upside and they've also capped themselves out as well.

Disagree. Derozan while having good athleticism, his game is not based on any ability as a high flyer. He's more in the "Pierce-mold". Plus, advances in sports medicine allow guys like Derozan, who have been healthy pretty much for his whole career, to be effective for longer. Then you add in the "Pop advantage". And they are absolutely NOT capped out next year. You guys are seeing this all wrong. Pop made out like a bandit and got to middle-finger his way back to San Antonio while he did it.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Hot take: Raptors flip Kawhi for Ingram and Deng by years end.

My prediction too if Kawhi continues to act like a diva. But no way Lakers are parting with Ingram. Kuzma, Deng, and a 1st just so they don't waste a year of Lebron's last legs.

Clippers could top that.

Kuz is Klutch— I don't see LeBron trading away one of his guys.

Harris, Robinson and SGA is intriguing. Rumors were that Toronto loved SGA, a Toronto native. Interesting.

[Gant]

Under the circumstances this a good trade for both teams. Toronto has a chance to be really strong while taking on the multiple risks of Kawhi leaving, being injured, not being as good as he was, and being a distraction. But, he could also be his old all-world self and re-sign there.

San Antonio gets a very good, very motivated player in DeRozan who will be outstanding if he has his best season yet, which is possible.

So, it's basketball fun.

[cl2117]

Also, LOL @ all the Raptors fans criticizing Ainge for dealing IT. Masai looked DD in the face and said he wont be trading him. And then did it. Time to crash off your pedestal’s.

Great point. Ainge has been trashed so hard for not having loyalty, but what Masai did, while understandable, was cold blooded.

Will be interesting to hear if Masai gets the same kind of treatment and if people bring it up every time the Raptors are mentioned with free agents in the future.

[Parasite]

Wait a minute. The Raptors just acquired Kawhi and Danny Green, who is a good player, for the choke artist DeRozan, a big man project, and an inconsequential draft pick???

Strap in boys, the east isn’t a foregone conclusion for us anymore. As a matter of fact, if Kawhi is healthy and plays like he means it, I think the Raps have a legitimate shot at the East. That is a monster defensive team.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

I understand that, but they couldn't at least squeeze OG out of the deal? This might be the worst return for a superstar player I've ever seen.

Dude. Think about that risk, look at it on paper. San Antonio makes mistakes, but if they pulled the trigger on this, it certainly was the best option on the table.

Well let's see. Pop and Buford turned this dumpster fire into a Top 15 All-NBA player (whatever your personal biases are) who can get you 25/5/5, the #9 pick in the draft from 2 years ago and a conditional 1st round pick. They get the added bonus of giving both LAL/Magic and Kawhi himself the middle finger for all their crap. I think San Antonio did a TREMENDOUS job in this deal. And that's before you even get to their team now.

DM (All-Defensive), DDM, RG, LMA, Gasol with Mills, Belli, Manu, and Poertl off the bench. San Antonio was what- 6th last year without Kawhi/DDM, 3 games out from 3rd? Houston got worse this offseason. Besides Golden State, tell me a team in the West that they're not at least on par with? And Pop is still Pop on the bench.

Seems obvious right?

[Valid]

Wait a minute. The Raptors just acquired Kawhi and Danny Green, who is a good player, for the choke artist DeRozan, a big man project, and an inconsequential draft pick???

Strap in boys, the east isn’t a foregone conclusion for us anymore. As a matter of fact, if Kawhi is healthy and plays like he means it, I think the Raps have a legitimate shot at the East. That is a monster defensive team.

Green is not even remotely close to the player he once was on either end of the floor. He is not a starting-caliber player anymore and his shot has abandoned him the past three years.

The Raptors are definitely going to be tough, though.

[Valid]

Toronto is the only team who was willing to trade for him without a guarantee that he will even show up to play. Pretty sure San Antonio just turned a rotten tomato into at least a serviceable grocery store tomato, certainly not a fancy heirloom, but better than nothing.

I understand that, but they couldn't at least squeeze OG out of the deal? This might be the worst return for a superstar player I've ever seen.

Dude. Think about that risk, look at it on paper. San Antonio makes mistakes, but if they pulled the trigger on this, it certainly was the best option on the table.

Unless Pop was just being stubborn and didn't want to trade him to a Western Conference team.

[amory87]

Can't believe that was the best they could do.

That's a terrible deal for SA. They're screwed.

This is ultimately where I'm at. The 1st is not good, Poeltl is decent but I don't see him as a gamechanger, and Derozan is a flat track bully that is going to have a sharp decline after losing his athleticism and will be 29 before the season starts. Yikes. Oladipo was at least in his mid 20s and had potential for growth. I don't see upside and they've also capped themselves out as well.

Disagree. Derozan while having good athleticism, his game is not based on any ability as a high flyer. He's more in the "Pierce-mold". Plus, advances in sports medicine allow guys like Derozan, who have been healthy pretty much for his whole career, to be effective for longer. Then you add in the "Pop advantage". And they are absolutely NOT capped out next year. You guys are seeing this all wrong. Pop made out like a bandit and got to middle-finger his way back to San Antonio while he did it.

I'm a Derozan fan, but it's tough to see how this could possibly end up being a good deal for the Spurs in either the short or the long run. He keeps them on the low lottery / fringe playoff contender treadmill, costs too much money to build a team around since he's clearly not a #1 and ideally not even a #2 guy, they didn't get even a fringe stud young player, the pick they got is in a shallow draft year and will likely be at the bottom of the first round....blah. Blah blah blah.

It's a sad day, as far as I'm concerned. The Spurs were a dynasty I could appreciate. They lasted a long time, but they're dead.

[87rottweiler]

Still, Celtics in 5.

[Parasite]

Wait a minute. The Raptors just acquired Kawhi and Danny Green, who is a good player, for the choke artist DeRozan, a big man project, and an inconsequential draft pick???

Strap in boys, the east isn’t a foregone conclusion for us anymore. As a matter of fact, if Kawhi is healthy and plays like he means it, I think the Raps have a legitimate shot at the East. That is a monster defensive team.

Green is not even remotely close to the player he once was on either end of the floor. He is not a starting-caliber player anymore and his shot has abandoned him the past three years.

The Raptors are definitely going to be tough, though.

He might not be starting caliber, but he is definitely rotation caliber. The fact they got anybody else halfways decent at all is astounding.

[Valid]

I understand that, but they couldn't at least squeeze OG out of the deal? This might be the worst return for a superstar player I've ever seen.

Dude. Think about that risk, look at it on paper. San Antonio makes mistakes, but if they pulled the trigger on this, it certainly was the best option on the table.

Well let's see. Pop and Buford turned this dumpster fire into a Top 15 All-NBA player (whatever your personal biases are) who can get you 25/5/5, the #9 pick in the draft from 2 years ago and a conditional 1st round pick. They get the added bonus of giving both LAL/Magic and Kawhi himself the middle finger for all their crap. I think San Antonio did a TREMENDOUS job in this deal. And that's before you even get to their team now.

DM (All-Defensive), DDM, RG, LMA, Gasol with Mills, Belli, Manu, and Poertl off the bench. San Antonio was what- 6th last year without Kawhi/DDM, 3 games out from 3rd? Houston got worse this offseason. Besides Golden State, tell me a team in the West that they're not at least on par with? And Pop is still Pop on the bench.

DeRozan is in no way, shape or form a top 15 player in the league. He is a terrible shooter, a horrific defender and a playoff choker on a bad contract. The dude just got benched in the playoffs, for crying out loud. This was an awful deal for the Spurs.

If DeRozan were really that dude, the Raptors wouldn't have just gotten swept by the Cavs.

[Valid]

Wait a minute. The Raptors just acquired Kawhi and Danny Green, who is a good player, for the choke artist DeRozan, a big man project, and an inconsequential draft pick???

Strap in boys, the east isn’t a foregone conclusion for us anymore. As a matter of fact, if Kawhi is healthy and plays like he means it, I think the Raps have a legitimate shot at the East. That is a monster defensive team.

Green is not even remotely close to the player he once was on either end of the floor. He is not a starting-caliber player anymore and his shot has abandoned him the past three years.

The Raptors are definitely going to be tough, though.

He might not be starting caliber, but he is definitely rotation caliber. The fact they got anybody else halfways decent at all is astounding.

Sure, but I'm just saying there really is no reason to fear Danny Green anymore and he isn't so impactful that it makes the Raptors that much more formidable. Their starting five will likely be Valanciunas, Ibaka, Leonard, Green and Lowry, so it will have two guys who are past their primes in Ibaka and Green, a bad defensive player and renowned playoff choker in Valanciunas and another playoff choker in Lowry who seems to be declining.

They're going to be good, but we are still looking at Celtics in six games or less.

[bucknersrevenge]

Dude. Think about that risk, look at it on paper. San Antonio makes mistakes, but if they pulled the trigger on this, it certainly was the best option on the table.

Well let's see. Pop and Buford turned this dumpster fire into a Top 15 All-NBA player (whatever your personal biases are) who can get you 25/5/5, the #9 pick in the draft from 2 years ago and a conditional 1st round pick. They get the added bonus of giving both LAL/Magic and Kawhi himself the middle finger for all their crap. I think San Antonio did a TREMENDOUS job in this deal. And that's before you even get to their team now.

DM (All-Defensive), DDM, RG, LMA, Gasol with Mills, Belli, Manu, and Poertl off the bench. San Antonio was what- 6th last year without Kawhi/DDM, 3 games out from 3rd? Houston got worse this offseason. Besides Golden State, tell me a team in the West that they're not at least on par with? And Pop is still Pop on the bench.

Seems obvious right?

I think what we're seeing is a lot of Celtics fans let their bias influence their objectivity here. Yes Derozan has choked against Lebron. But that doesn't change that he's still an All-NBA player in the PRIME of his career. It's not like they acquired a 34 year-old player. Derozan is in his BEST years with the BEST coach in the business. He's pissed now but he's a pro and once he accepts it and calms down, he will go down there and help re-establish the Spurs as a threat again.

[SMTBSI]

Nah, Neo eventually surpasses Morpheus.

It's more like we're Neo and they're Smith. Perpetually right about at our level, sometimes seeming a bit above, sometimes a bit below, but never quite able to close the deal when it really counts.

I think they're more like that weird squid robot that Neo disabled in like ten seconds with his completely inexplicable real world superpowers at the end of the second movie, but to each his own.

Neo doesn't surpass Morpheus. The One does.

I am clearly over my head. Saw each of those movies once, when they first came out.


Anyway, I think we should be aiming higher. Forget "The One". Let's go for Omnipresent Supergalactic Oneness.

Watch on YouTube

[Valid]

Well let's see. Pop and Buford turned this dumpster fire into a Top 15 All-NBA player (whatever your personal biases are) who can get you 25/5/5, the #9 pick in the draft from 2 years ago and a conditional 1st round pick. They get the added bonus of giving both LAL/Magic and Kawhi himself the middle finger for all their crap. I think San Antonio did a TREMENDOUS job in this deal. And that's before you even get to their team now.

DM (All-Defensive), DDM, RG, LMA, Gasol with Mills, Belli, Manu, and Poertl off the bench. San Antonio was what- 6th last year without Kawhi/DDM, 3 games out from 3rd? Houston got worse this offseason. Besides Golden State, tell me a team in the West that they're not at least on par with? And Pop is still Pop on the bench.

Seems obvious right?

I think what we're seeing is a lot of Celtics fans let their bias influence their objectivity here. Yes Derozan has choked against Lebron. But that doesn't change that he's still an All-NBA player in the PRIME of his career. It's not like they acquired a 34 year-old player. Derozan is in his BEST years with the BEST coach in the business. He's pissed now but he's a pro and once he accepts it and calms down, he will go down there and help re-establish the Spurs as a threat again.

How is it biased when we are saying that the Raptors smoked the Spurs in this deal? It would be biased if we were saying it the other way around. DeRozan isn't very good. He had a minus-2.7 net rating this past year.