Around the NBA: 2017—2018

[Pillendreher]

I don't think we need to beat around the bush with this one: They elected to maintain some stability without getting anything of value for their future. Disappointing, especially since Derozan-Gay-Aldridge is bound to suck and is such a Non-Spurs trio.

[bondom34]

The Spurs won 47 games with Aldridge and no DeRozan. There's a good shot at over 50 wins and they may be better than OKC. It's not a great return but they're gonna be good.

[Kizz Fastfists]

The Spurs won 47 games with Aldridge and no DeRozan. There's a good shot at over 50 wins and they may be better than OKC. It's not a great return but they're gonna be good.

At worst they will be 3rd in the West and they could be 2nd behind GS. DeRozan will shoot 35% from 3 this year as Pop will only have him taking most of them from the corner where he is 37% for his career. SA is more likely to make the WCF than OKC is to make it past game 5 in the first round. If only OKC had a competent coach that would maximize their roster that has the talent that Pop would have a chance to get to the WCF.

[bondom34]

Little too far. I'd have GSW, Houston, Utah, then a group of OKC the Spurs, Portland and Minnesota. Then the Lakers, Denver and NOLA.

[Pillendreher]

The Spurs won 47 games with Aldridge and no DeRozan. There's a good shot at over 50 wins and they may be better than OKC. It's not a great return but they're gonna be good.

At worst they will be 3rd in the West and they could be 2nd behind GS. DeRozan will shoot 35% from 3 this year as Pop will only have him taking most of them from the corner where he is 37% for his career. SA is more likely to make the WCF than OKC is to make it past game 5 in the first round. If only OKC had a competent coach that would maximize their roster that has the talent that Pop would have a chance to get to the WCF.

Good God - enough with this cult like nonsense every damn season with the Spurs! Would you at least take a look at their roster? For multiple seasons in a row, it has become worse and worse with decent and good players leaving while mediocre to bad players stayed on.
I for one don't believe that a bunch of inefficient chuckers that don't play defense will suddenly turn into completely different versions of themselves just because they're playing for the Spurs.

The Spurs won games because of their defense*. They lost their two best wing defenders this offseason and replaced them with a non defender and a guy who's at best a decent 9th man off the bench in Cunningham. I'm not a fan of Kyle Anderson, but I don't think that he was 3rd in On/Off, 1st in BPM and 2nd in RPM for that team just as a coincidence. And impact like that can't be replaced with Dante Cunnningham.

*Their offense was quite underwhelming at 17th in ORtG/A and that's not gonna change with Derozan taking trash shots at average efficiency.

The Spurs could very well be starting not a single player who can make a 3 at a decent level at a meaningful volume. I don't even know how many people are left on that roster that can actually play defense. Out of their current roster, the only guys who should make the rotation and are younger than 28 years old are Murray, Brandon Paul, Forbes, Bertans and Poeltl. Meanwhile, they're gonna be relying on a whole lot of 30 yo or older players without the luxury of being able to rest as much because they top tier talent is diminished.
But I'm glad they got another mid-range fetish player. That'll push them to 65 wins, I'm sure.

Oh and regarding last season: The Spurs were lucky both the Thunder and the T'Wolves got **** by injuries over the last couple of months of the season. If not for those injuries to Roberson and Butler, both teams would have run away with the 3rd and 4th seed and the Spurs would have been left fighting for their Playoff life. Which they did anyway, if you recount what happened just a couple of months ago.

PS: Per basketballreference, Derozan has attempted roughly 400 corner 3s in his career. That's not even 50 per season. That's not exactly something I would be willing to bet on.

[slick_watts]

Little too far. I'd have GSW, Houston, Utah, then a group of OKC the Spurs, Portland and Minnesota. Then the Lakers, Denver and NOLA.

i see denver in that 2nd group, no?

northwest division is strong.

[slick_watts]

The Spurs won 47 games with Aldridge and no DeRozan. There's a good shot at over 50 wins and they may be better than OKC. It's not a great return but they're gonna be good.

At worst they will be 3rd in the West and they could be 2nd behind GS. DeRozan will shoot 35% from 3 this year as Pop will only have him taking most of them from the corner where he is 37% for his career. SA is more likely to make the WCF than OKC is to make it past game 5 in the first round. If only OKC had a competent coach that would maximize their roster that has the talent that Pop would have a chance to get to the WCF.

Good God - enough with this cult like nonsense every damn season with the Spurs! Would you at least take a look at their roster? For multiple seasons in a row, it has become worse and worse with decent and good players leaving while mediocre to bad players stayed on.
I for one don't believe that a bunch of inefficient chuckers that don't play defense will suddenly turn into completely different versions of themselves just because they're playing for the Spurs.

The Spurs won games because of their defense*. They lost their two best wing defenders this offseason and replaced them with a non defender and a guy who's at best a decent 9th man off the bench in Cunningham. I'm not a fan of Kyle Anderson, but I don't think that he was 3rd in On/Off, 1st in BPM and 2nd in RPM for that team just as a coincidence. And impact like that can't be replaced with Dante Cunnningham.

*Their offense was quite underwhelming at 17th in ORtG/A and that's not gonna change with Derozan taking trash shots at average efficiency.

The Spurs could very well be starting not a single player who can make a 3 at a decent level at a meaningful volume. I don't even know how many people are left on that roster that can actually play defense. Out of their current roster, the only guys who should make the rotation and are younger than 28 years old are Murray, Brandon Paul, Forbes, Bertans and Poeltl. Meanwhile, they're gonna be relying on a whole lot of 30 yo or older players without the luxury of being able to rest as much because they top tier talent is diminished.
But I'm glad they got another mid-range fetish player. That'll push them to 65 wins, I'm sure.

Oh and regarding last season: The Spurs were lucky both the Thunder and the T'Wolves got **** by injuries over the last couple of months of the season. If not for those injuries to Roberson and Butler, both teams would have run away with the 3rd and 4th seed and the Spurs would have been left fighting for their Playoff life. Which they did anyway, if you recount what happened just a couple of months ago.

PS: Per basketballreference, Derozan has attempted roughly 400 corner 3s in his career. That's not even 50 per season. That's not exactly something I would be willing to bet on.

you're forgetting davis bertans.

[bondom34]

Little too far. I'd have GSW, Houston, Utah, then a group of OKC the Spurs, Portland and Minnesota. Then the Lakers, Denver and NOLA.

i see denver in that 2nd group, no?

northwest division is strong.

I still have them in the NOLA and Lakers group. I picked them last year to do well and they fooled me a bit.

[spearsy23]

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[ThunderBolt]

What a disaster the t wolves rebuild has become. None of those guys like each other and the coach is likely too stubborn to make the needed moves before it implodes.

[spearsy23]

What a disaster the t wolves rebuild has become. None of those guys like each other and the coach is likely too stubborn to make the needed moves before it implodes.

Hiring thibs for a young team needing development, plus giving him roster control didn't work? I'm shocked. Maybe they can bring in luol Deng and Joakim to recall the magic.

[ozwizard8]

Little too far. I'd have GSW, Houston, Utah, then a group of OKC the Spurs, Portland and Minnesota. Then the Lakers, Denver and NOLA.

A team with Lebron would definitely be in playoffs just saying. Probably top 4 in conference too. They'll close out those games against under .500 much better than many teams in that 2nd and 3rd group.

WB must step up this year. Become an offensive threat instead of volume shooter.

[bondom34]

Little too far. I'd have GSW, Houston, Utah, then a group of OKC the Spurs, Portland and Minnesota. Then the Lakers, Denver and NOLA.

A team with Lebron would definitely be in playoffs just saying. Probably top 4 in conference too. They'll close out those games against under .500 much better than many teams in that 2nd and 3rd group.

WB must step up this year. Become an offensive threat instead of volume shooter.

Its literally like you've never watched the Thunder or Lakers.

Lance, Rondo, McGee, Beasley, and Lebron isn't a good team. And Lebron was a barely top 4 seed in the east with a better cast.

And yet, Westbrook and nothing can be better offensively (almost like he's...not just a volume shooter). Melo was the issue. Probably will be in Houston.

[ozwizard8]

Little too far. I'd have GSW, Houston, Utah, then a group of OKC the Spurs, Portland and Minnesota. Then the Lakers, Denver and NOLA.

A team with Lebron would definitely be in playoffs just saying. Probably top 4 in conference too. They'll close out those games against under .500 much better than many teams in that 2nd and 3rd group.

WB must step up this year. Become an offensive threat instead of volume shooter.

Its literally like you've never watched the Thunder or Lakers.

Lance, Rondo, McGee, Beasley, and Lebron isn't a good team. And Lebron was a barely top 4 seed in the east with a better cast.

And yet, Westbrook and nothing can be better offensively (almost like he's...not just a volume shooter). Melo was the issue. Probably will be in Houston.

Yea what I'm saying is probably top 4. Not definitely but its more likely if you ask me.
Summer is not over yet. And they can always trade Ball or Ingram if they dont fit well with Lebron.
Ball, Ingram, Kuzma are really nice young players.
Rondo, Lance, Beasley, Mcgee are going to contribute like other problematic players did in Lebron's previous teams.

Just compared positions without adding Lebron in the mix.

*J.Clarkson-J.Calderon-G.Hill vs Rondo-Ball
*Jr Smith-R.Hood vs Lance Stephenson, KCP
*Korver vs Ingram
*K.Love-J.Green vs Kuzma-M.Beasley
*T.Thompson vs Mcgee

-Rondo-Ball are better playmakers for sure. And they're good at D too. 3pt shooting wise Cavs were better but Ball-Rondo must be the best defensive pg rotation in the NBA. Lakers
-Jr vs Lance. They're both need someone like Lebron to stay in control. JR is better shooter but Lance puts some other things on the table too. KCP-Hood. Its even.
-Korver vs Ingram. Different players but Ingram has more value. Even if it means trade value its still better having him. Who knows maybe they'll use him to trade K.Leonard at trade deadline. Ingram improved his shooting numbers a lot. %39 3pt shooting. Lakers
-Though Kuzma is really fits that modern PF role. And Beasley is good scorer off the bench. He should contribute similar to J.Green. Cavs had the edge on PF.
-Thompson had an awful regular season. Mcgee would finsih alley oops and provide some rim protection.K.Love played C too. Cavs had better C rotation.

Looking at the positions, player values I think they're pretty similar.
Rondo-Ball offers better pg rotation. Ingram improved his game a lot and he can get better this year too. I'd rather have him in regular season than K.Korver.
K.Love was certainly better than any Lakers big men so Cavs had better frontcourt.

At the end of the day, I dont think there's much difference.
Ball-Ingram-Kuzma expected to get better at this stage. If not they still hold trade value.
Old washed up ring chasers and buddies of Lebron going to join Lakers at some point. I'm not saying they'll make difference but some would join him on the road.

***

Melo was problematic on defense. But I dont think he created much issues on offense. I dont like Donovan's coaching it doesnt let us score easily. As an outcome we rely on 1on1's and forced shots.
When there is no better option to score they give the ball to Melo and he scores inefficiently. Its not like there were much better options on offense.

WB's %TS dropped to the 8 years low. He's holding the ball too much. He tries to save energy on defense.
Harden, Curry draws much more help defense than WB and thats more valuable than scoring 30 and making triple double.
He should concentrate on his impact to the game. Stat padding for triple doubles doesnt help. Its not the biggest issue but still holds him and Thunder back.
Less forced shots, less meaningless dribbles. More off ball movement, better defensive effort might help Thunder more than what he did last season.
Also I cant forget how he lost the matchup against Rubio. Rubio defended better and sadly he shooted much better than WB.
Like Rubio finding his spots efficiently with Jazz, WB needs to get rid of some bad habits to have more impact on the game.

[bondom34]

-Rondo-Ball are better playmakers for sure. And they're good at D too. 3pt shooting wise Cavs were better but Ball-Rondo must be the best defensive pg rotation in the NBA. Lakers

Rondo is a terrible defender and Ball a terrible offensive player. Hill is better than either pretty easily. And Rondo may be the worst on either team.

-Jr vs Lance. They're both need someone like Lebron to stay in control. JR is better shooter but Lance puts some other things on the table too. KCP-Hood. Its even.

Lance hasn't had an even average year outside of Indiana, and even then it was close. He's not good at all.

-Korver vs Ingram. Different players but Ingram has more value. Even if it means trade value its still better having him. Who knows maybe they'll use him to trade K.Leonard at trade deadline. Ingram improved his shooting numbers a lot. %39 3pt shooting.

Ingram has more value, because he's younger. Korver is currently better.

-Though Kuzma is really fits that modern PF role. And Beasley is good scorer off the bench. He should contribute similar to J.Green. Cavs had the edge on PF.

Love is by far the best here.

-Thompson had an awful regular season. Mcgee would finsih alley oops and provide some rim protection.K.Love played C too. Cavs had better C rotation.

McGee is a vet min player. Thompson, though bad, is not.

Melo was problematic on defense. But I dont think he created much issues on offense. I dont like Donovan's coaching it doesnt let us score easily. As an outcome we rely on 1on1's and forced shots.
When there is no better option to score they give the ball to Melo and he scores inefficiently. Its not like there were much better options on offense.

The offense was marginally better with Melo when he was added to PG and Russ. He doesn't actually elevate other players, he gets his own relatively empty numbers while forgetting defense entirely. ,

WB's %TS dropped to the 8 years low.

True.

He's holding the ball too much.

How he's always played, while leading a very good offense.

He tries to save energy on defense.

And yet statistically it's not harming the team defense. Individual defense isnt team defense and he's not doing the damage Melo was.

Harden, Curry draws much more help defense than WB

This is categorically incorrect

and thats more valuable than scoring 30 and making triple double.

This is true, but I'd like to see you point to a time when this was the goal for anyone.

He should concentrate on his impact to the game. Stat padding for triple doubles doesnt help. Its not the biggest issue but still holds him and Thunder back.

Ah, so he's been holding them back all this time, who knew. Also, the stat padding thing needs to stop, you should know it's false but I'm assuming you haven't paid any attention outside of Melo at this point.

Less forced shots, less meaningless dribbles. More off ball movement, better defensive effort might help Thunder more than what he did last season.

This to me sounds like every player who's ever been on this roster.

Also I cant forget how he lost the matchup against Rubio. Rubio defended better and sadly he shooted much better than WB.
Like Rubio finding his spots efficiently with Jazz, WB needs to get rid of some bad habits to have more impact on the game.

Tossing it out there but comparing them is laughable. Durant had a better finals than Lebron numbers wise. Lebron is the better player. George was outplayed by Mitchell, Melo by Favors, and Adams by Gobert.

And if you think Westbrook doesn't have a high impact on the game check how the offense functions without him.

[ozwizard8]

Lets go one by one.

*Rondo is much better defender than G.Hill. Look at their stats. G.Hill had minus DPBM for last couple years.
Rondo by eye test also better defender. He did really good in playoffs too. Just by trading L.Ball you can get a pg at G.Hil-J.Clarkson caliber. That duo might help Lakers significantly on D.

*JR didnt look good at all in his last 1.5 seasons with Knicks. He won that 6MOY in 12-13 season but other than that he was a nut case.
Lebron going to improve Lance-KCP performance.

*Korver isnt better than Ingram at this point. Ingram is certainly better on D. And he improved a lot last year. This will be his 3rd year you shouldnt expect any less from him.
And like I said if we're comparing rosters we should care for player value too. Ingram is valuable asset. You can pack him with someone and turn it to a much better player suits win now mentality.

*Kuzma fits that modern PF role. Beasley is good backup.
*Thompson isnt special but with K.Love playing at 5 its fair to say Cavs had better frontcourt.
But the thing is Houston got 2nd seed with R.Anderson-PJ Tucker playing PF. Capela's role was catching hoops and protecting the rim. Mcgee can bring some of them.
In modern game frontcourt is less important than backcourt.

All in all, Lakers with Lebron and those young players they're a threat.
Predicting them being in 3rd group and trying to make playoffs barely is no good prediction if you ask me.
I can see them being in top 4. Like when they're healthy Spurs making top spots without much top players Lebron has similar effect on his teams.

***

For WB I didnt compared him to Rubio. And I didnt conclude that Rubio is better player or such.
But the reality is Rubio outplayed WB especially in first games.
WB claims for being top player of the NBA. So I would expect him to win his matchup with a margin.
He used to make opponent pg's his bitch in playoffs. T.Parker, Cp3 etc.

I know WB was never efficient. He was never a good play maker.
But the thing is he got worse.

I used wrong words to describe Harden-Curry's effect.
WB certainly draws some help defense but he couldnt find a way to use them for the team. Not as much as Harden-Curry did for their teams.
WB actually got help on offense last year. So he didnt need to shoot that much but somehow his %TS decreased.
Its just my observation that he couldnt adjust his game accordingly.
Curry got Durant on his team but transition went seamlessly.
Harden with CP3 was similar.

WB needs to save his energy to finish plays on higher %fg.
Dribbling for 15 seconds was ok when it was his one man show 2 years ago.
But now he should find ways to share the ball more. Also the way Oladipo played last year kinda showed how WB hold him off 2 years ago.
I actually blame Donovan more on this but I really dont have any faith in him.
So if WB can find it by his own. Instead of going for more assist/rebounds he can give the ball more and focus on efficiency.

I really do believe WB has great talent. And if he focus on sth he can do it. I'm not saying he's putting winning behind triple doubles. But I'm feel like he's focused to do it all by himself and get most of the stats.
If he can focus on efficiency that'd help the team most.

Btw you said like Melo was the issue on offense. I just disagree with that part. On D he hold the team back for sure.
And before WB making some adjustments and stuff I blame Donovan on how pathetic our offensive scheme is.
2 top 20 player in the league and Melo who was still good scorer was on the roster. You got Adams inside who's pretty good low post player and offensive rebounder. Team underperformed offensively last year.

[bondom34]

I noticed you didn't quote me.

The team wasn't underperforming offensively with Westbrook on the court. They were underperforming defensively with Melo though

Westbrook draws the same attention and can elevate an offense similarly. Melo can't and doesn't.

And the Lakers comps are just all wrong.

The issue was Melo can't see he isn't a high impact player but thinks he is. Westbrook, and to a lesser extent George, are. Westbrook is one of the top 5-10 at worst players in the league (closer to 5 but you could argue him out of it based on a down year). Thats not this team's issue.

[bondom34]

Also did you just say Rondo is a good defender because Hill is a -0.42? Because Rondo is a -0.37 and worse offensively. He sucks. The Lakers don't have that talent and your takes on the Thunder are miles off too. I know you're a Melo guy but jeez.

My most entertaining narrative this season was the Melo fans blaming his old terrible self on Westbrook. Like he was ever some MVP level player.

[ThunderBolt]

Didn’t expect love to want to sign on with Cleveland long term.

[spearsy23]

Didn’t expect love to want to sign on with Cleveland long term.

Why? He got his ring but spent a few years being underappreciated and attacked, now he gets to show he's still the 24/12 guy he was and there's not really any pressure on him. If he makes the playoffs for a few years then everyone is shocked and calls it a success.