2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[Fo-Real]

So, do the Raps now take trade bids from the Lakers and turn him right around and trade him out?

[rcc8884]

I had no idea just how low Schroder's trade value has gotten

[Qwigglez]

Warren is basically a less flashier DeRozan. Definitely see a Warren, Jackson for Butler trade happening.

So you will to destroy our timeline for a 28 year player that wont be around when our core is ready? I can see Warren moving but Jackson is the defensive heart of this team and can be around for years longer then Bulter who seems to have a problems with his teammates. I would skip on any trade that takes any of our core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson and Mikal.

Not destroying anything. I feel Jackson and Warren just aren’t very good fits with Booker and Ayton. Jackson being the defensive heart means nothing when we were last in defense. If we were to trade Warren, JJ for a player like Butler and play fairly well I could see Butler not only staying in Phoenix but also being a catalyst in convincing other top tier free agents to join us here as well.

[bwgood77]

I had no idea just how low Schroder's trade value has gotten

He's just one of the worst defensive point guards in the game and a bad shooter. We have enough of those problems. And there are reports he is toxic in the locker room.

[cberry78]

If it was basically we give up expiring Chandler for Schroder would you guys still not want to do it? I know his lack of defense and character issues don't fit but I still believe we should pull that trigger

I wouldnt touch Schroder if they were paying us.

I would consider Schroder if he came with at least a FRP attached...could be a worthwhile end of the bench type move.

[TOO]

Schroder is a MoBro type. Thinks he's better than he is, overpaid, one dimensional, not very good at said dimension, also has assault charges pending. Classic MoBro.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

Jabari would have fit right in on the suns lol

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[Waylay13]

Warren is basically a less flashier DeRozan. Definitely see a Warren, Jackson for Butler trade happening.

So you will to destroy our timeline for a 28 year player that wont be around when our core is ready? I can see Warren moving but Jackson is the defensive heart of this team and can be around for years longer then Bulter who seems to have a problems with his teammates. I would skip on any trade that takes any of our core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson and Mikal.

Not destroying anything. I feel Jackson and Warren just aren’t very good fits with Booker and Ayton. Jackson being the defensive heart means nothing when we were last in defense. If we were to trade Warren, JJ for a player like Butler and play fairly well I could see Butler not only staying in Phoenix but also being a catalyst in convincing other top tier free agents to join us here as well.

Six years that this the maximum that Butler has in the NBA any more, he would be 34 years old and as far being a player that draws others Stars to play with the only play that has ever been talking about playing with him is Kyrie and i wouldnt trade Harrison for Kyrie. in every other case he hasnt gotten along with other star player players. heck i think it would be more likely that Booker would want to leave then staying to play with Butler. Dont touch the core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson or Mikal.

[BobbieL]

I had no idea just how low Schroder's trade value has gotten

He's just one of the worst defensive point guards in the game and a bad shooter. We have enough of those problems. And there are reports he is toxic in the locker room.

Suns are building a new culture under Igor - at least hope they are. The third on that list is important. In some ways, the worst of the three traits. Cannot have guys that might have the locker room go backwards especially when you sign Ariza to help the locker room go forward.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Jabari would have fit right in on the suns lol

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Damn he really sounds clueless. I hope our guys our at least knowledgeable enough to be smart enough to know it's not so much points, but how much harder can you make it for them and lower their efficiency? Someone scoring 20-30 points on bad efficiency doesn't help anyone but the opposition.

[bigfoot]

So you will to destroy our timeline for a 28 year player that wont be around when our core is ready? I can see Warren moving but Jackson is the defensive heart of this team and can be around for years longer then Bulter who seems to have a problems with his teammates. I would skip on any trade that takes any of our core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson and Mikal.

Not destroying anything. I feel Jackson and Warren just aren’t very good fits with Booker and Ayton. Jackson being the defensive heart means nothing when we were last in defense. If we were to trade Warren, JJ for a player like Butler and play fairly well I could see Butler not only staying in Phoenix but also being a catalyst in convincing other top tier free agents to join us here as well.

Six years that this the maximum that Butler has in the NBA any more, he would be 34 years old and as far being a player that draws others Stars to play with the only play that has ever been talking about playing with him is Kyrie and i wouldnt trade Harrison for Kyrie. in every other case he hasnt gotten along with other star player players. heck i think it would be more likely that Booker would want to leave then staying to play with Butler. Dont touch the core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson or Mikal.

One simple fact ... Josh Jackson's defense is overrated. He was one of the worst defenders last season on the team. In the summer league he continued the trend and had the fourth worst defensive rating on the team. Combined with his pathetic offense and shooting, he may turn into Elfrid Payton 2.0. JJ included in a trade for a legitimate star is a no brainer.

[TASTIC]

If it was basically we give up expiring Chandler for Schroder would you guys still not want to do it? I know his lack of defense and character issues don't fit but I still believe we should pull that trigger

bw gonna blow a gasket in response to this comment...

The Suns can be part of this as the FOURTH team if somebody wants Chandler & Daniels and the Suns are NOT getting Shroder. I don't know that player is - just as long as its not Shroder.

Doesn't Schroder seem like a Magic PG?

Melo to ATL, waive him.

Muscala, Simmons, Augustin to OKC (all actually help them, especially Jonathon Simmons)

Schroder to ORL

[lilfishi22]

bw gonna blow a gasket in response to this comment...

The Suns can be part of this as the FOURTH team if somebody wants Chandler & Daniels and the Suns are NOT getting Shroder. I don't know that player is - just as long as its not Shroder.

Doesn't Schroder seem like a Magic PG?

Melo to ATL, waive him.

Muscala, Simmons, Augustin to OKC (all actually help them, especially Jonathon Simmons)

Schroder to ORL

This actually makes sense. Although I think ATL would want something more than just cap relief in return

[Waylay13]

Not destroying anything. I feel Jackson and Warren just aren’t very good fits with Booker and Ayton. Jackson being the defensive heart means nothing when we were last in defense. If we were to trade Warren, JJ for a player like Butler and play fairly well I could see Butler not only staying in Phoenix but also being a catalyst in convincing other top tier free agents to join us here as well.

Six years that this the maximum that Butler has in the NBA any more, he would be 34 years old and as far being a player that draws others Stars to play with the only play that has ever been talking about playing with him is Kyrie and i wouldnt trade Harrison for Kyrie. in every other case he hasnt gotten along with other star player players. heck i think it would be more likely that Booker would want to leave then staying to play with Butler. Dont touch the core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson or Mikal.

One simple fact ... Josh Jackson's defense is overrated. He was one of the worst defenders last season on the team. In the summer league he continued the trend and had the fourth worst defensive rating on the team. Combined with his pathetic offense and shooting, he may turn into Elfrid Payton 2.0. JJ included in a trade for a legitimate star is a no brainer.

And this is why i never trust advanced stats, if you cant watch Jackson and see more defensive effort then what we see from someone like Bender or Chriss or even Booker we are not watching the same game. The fact that Jackson is the one out there talking defense with the other players on the court says more then any advance stats that i have seen.

[lilfishi22]

Not destroying anything. I feel Jackson and Warren just aren’t very good fits with Booker and Ayton. Jackson being the defensive heart means nothing when we were last in defense. If we were to trade Warren, JJ for a player like Butler and play fairly well I could see Butler not only staying in Phoenix but also being a catalyst in convincing other top tier free agents to join us here as well.

Six years that this the maximum that Butler has in the NBA any more, he would be 34 years old and as far being a player that draws others Stars to play with the only play that has ever been talking about playing with him is Kyrie and i wouldnt trade Harrison for Kyrie. in every other case he hasnt gotten along with other star player players. heck i think it would be more likely that Booker would want to leave then staying to play with Butler. Dont touch the core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson or Mikal.

One simple fact ... Josh Jackson's defense is overrated. He was one of the worst defenders last season on the team. In the summer league he continued the trend and had the fourth worst defensive rating on the team. Combined with his pathetic offense and shooting, he may turn into Elfrid Payton 2.0. JJ included in a trade for a legitimate star is a no brainer.

He passes the eye test for me, unlike most players on the team but being on the worst defensive team with holes in multiple position is not going to help his raw or advanced stats. There's attempts to isolate individual defense from team defense but it's difficult and as far as I know, there's no perfect advance stat to measure individual defense which is unaffected by team defense.

Bender is another guy who doesn't look good from an advance stats standpoint and honestly, it's hard to make a case for the eye test either because while he shows good fundamentals, he hasn't been able to consistently contain perimeter penetration and doesn't have the athleticism/length for the come from behind block either.

Booker doesn't look good nor does his stats show he's any good either.

[bwgood77]

Six years that this the maximum that Butler has in the NBA any more, he would be 34 years old and as far being a player that draws others Stars to play with the only play that has ever been talking about playing with him is Kyrie and i wouldnt trade Harrison for Kyrie. in every other case he hasnt gotten along with other star player players. heck i think it would be more likely that Booker would want to leave then staying to play with Butler. Dont touch the core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson or Mikal.

One simple fact ... Josh Jackson's defense is overrated. He was one of the worst defenders last season on the team. In the summer league he continued the trend and had the fourth worst defensive rating on the team. Combined with his pathetic offense and shooting, he may turn into Elfrid Payton 2.0. JJ included in a trade for a legitimate star is a no brainer.

And this is why i never trust advanced stats, if you cant watch Jackson and see more defensive effort then what we see from someone like Bender or Chriss or even Booker we are not watching the same game. The fact that Jackson is the one out there talking defense with the other players on the court says more then any advance stats that i have seen.

We really didn't have any good defensive players on the team last year outside of Shaq. Jackson's effort can look good. Dragan is more sound and usually in better position. I do agree advanced stats if you are looking at simple rankings or ratings....especially on b ref which uses box score stats a lot more than on/off type of criteria.

Of the advanced stats that don't require more in depth research like on/off, lineups, etc, or diving into Cleaning the Glass #s, DRAPM is probably the best...where Dragan ranked 325th and Jackson 367....and those were two of the better ones...Chriss was actually better than both though.

Dragan is a good team defender, switching, helping, and is good at disrupting shots. Jackson is good at getting steals and manning up...Dragan is pretty good at sticking with his guys though for his size.

Of course the expectations for Dragan were to be a utility big good at various things like shooting, passing, defending...not really star expectations...but hopefully valuable....Jackson was always expected to be a star being the #1 recruit in HS, etc, so expectations were high. He was about as disappointing as a top drafted rookie relative to expectations that I can recall for the Suns. But I do love his attitude (even though his summer league play left me wondering if he forgot what he had done to improve the last half of the season from putrid to just simply below average...because he was back to putrid). I think working with Igor he will get the best out of him though....whatever that may be.

[BobbieL]

The Suns can be part of this as the FOURTH team if somebody wants Chandler & Daniels and the Suns are NOT getting Shroder. I don't know that player is - just as long as its not Shroder.

Doesn't Schroder seem like a Magic PG?

Melo to ATL, waive him.

Muscala, Simmons, Augustin to OKC (all actually help them, especially Jonathon Simmons)

Schroder to ORL

This actually makes sense. Although I think ATL would want something more than just cap relief in return

Atlanta getting cap relief is no small thing

And if Ross is to be believed - they want a third team. Could be Orlando

[WeekapaugGroove]

One simple fact ... Josh Jackson's defense is overrated. He was one of the worst defenders last season on the team. In the summer league he continued the trend and had the fourth worst defensive rating on the team. Combined with his pathetic offense and shooting, he may turn into Elfrid Payton 2.0. JJ included in a trade for a legitimate star is a no brainer.

And this is why i never trust advanced stats, if you cant watch Jackson and see more defensive effort then what we see from someone like Bender or Chriss or even Booker we are not watching the same game. The fact that Jackson is the one out there talking defense with the other players on the court says more then any advance stats that i have seen.

We really didn't have any good defensive players on the team last year outside of Shaq. Jackson's effort can look good. Dragan is more sound and usually in better position. I do agree advanced stats if you are looking at simple rankings or ratings....especially on b ref which uses box score stats a lot more than on/off type of criteria.

Of the advanced stats that don't require more in depth research like on/off, lineups, etc, or diving into Cleaning the Glass #s, DRAPM is probably the best...where Dragan ranked 325th and Jackson 367....and those were two of the better ones...Chriss was actually better than both though.

Dragan is a good team defender, switching, helping, and is good at disrupting shots. Jackson is good at getting steals and manning up...Dragan is pretty good at sticking with his guys though for his size.

Of course the expectations for Dragan were to be a utility big good at various things like shooting, passing, defending...not really star expectations...but hopefully valuable....Jackson was always expected to be a star being the #1 recruit in HS, etc, so expectations were high. He was about as disappointing as a top drafted rookie relative to expectations that I can recall for the Suns. But I do love his attitude (even though his summer league play left me wondering if he forgot what he had done to improve the last half of the season from putrid to just simply below average...because he was back to putrid). I think working with Igor he will get the best out of him though....whatever that may be.

I agree. As some know I wasn't the biggest Jackson guy but I do see some defensive potential with him. Now it should be noted at this point it's all just theorical and not something he's actually good at but dude does have the right mentality and can move his feet. He just need to learn to play basketball in general at this point. Not exactly something you like saying about a top 5 pick but it's true.

Bender has some potential but has been a huge dispointment from a shot blocking standpoint. And obviously he needs to get stronger or he won't be in the league 4 years from now.

Chriss is actually kind of intriguing defensively. If he ever got his head on straight and could consistently be in the right place he could be a good defender. One of the few things that seem to come naturally for him is blocking shots and dude has all the physical ability you would want except for massive length.

Bridges is going to be a good defender. He actually knows how to play.

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[bwgood77]

And this is why i never trust advanced stats, if you cant watch Jackson and see more defensive effort then what we see from someone like Bender or Chriss or even Booker we are not watching the same game. The fact that Jackson is the one out there talking defense with the other players on the court says more then any advance stats that i have seen.

We really didn't have any good defensive players on the team last year outside of Shaq. Jackson's effort can look good. Dragan is more sound and usually in better position. I do agree advanced stats if you are looking at simple rankings or ratings....especially on b ref which uses box score stats a lot more than on/off type of criteria.

Of the advanced stats that don't require more in depth research like on/off, lineups, etc, or diving into Cleaning the Glass #s, DRAPM is probably the best...where Dragan ranked 325th and Jackson 367....and those were two of the better ones...Chriss was actually better than both though.

Dragan is a good team defender, switching, helping, and is good at disrupting shots. Jackson is good at getting steals and manning up...Dragan is pretty good at sticking with his guys though for his size.

Of course the expectations for Dragan were to be a utility big good at various things like shooting, passing, defending...not really star expectations...but hopefully valuable....Jackson was always expected to be a star being the #1 recruit in HS, etc, so expectations were high. He was about as disappointing as a top drafted rookie relative to expectations that I can recall for the Suns. But I do love his attitude (even though his summer league play left me wondering if he forgot what he had done to improve the last half of the season from putrid to just simply below average...because he was back to putrid). I think working with Igor he will get the best out of him though....whatever that may be.

I agree. As some know I wasn't the biggest Jackson guy but I do see some defensive potential with him. Now it should be noted at this point it's all just theorical and not something he's actually good at but dude does have the right mentality and can move his feet. He just need to learn to play basketball in general at this point. Not exactly something you like saying about a top 5 pick but it's true.

Bender has some potential but has been a huge dispointment from a shot blocking standpoint. And obviously he needs to get stronger or he won't be in the league 4 years from now.

Chriss is actually kind of intriguing defensively. If he ever got his head on straight and could consistently be in the right place he could be a good defender. One of the few things that seem to come naturally for him is blocking shots and dude has all the physical ability you would want except for massive length.

Bridges is going to be a good defender. He actually knows how to play.

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Oh yeah, I think our best starting lineup (I won't include PG because who knows) would be Booker, Bridges, Ariza and Ayton.

Bridges shoots better than the other 3s and defends better as well. Of course he is older than Jackson with more experience.

But you can't bring Jackson and Warren off the bench together either so you need to stagger them correctly...so Bridges along with Jackson or Warren could work better.

[lilfishi22]

I still think a Warren trade is being explored