Kawhi Thread, Numero 4 -- Traded to Raptors for DeRozan, others

[rickrolled]

Read on Twitter

Spoiler:

[CelticsLV]

In the end, a lot of what was said by the media about Kawhi and this whole situation will be overblown BS as always. He'll most likely play out the season just fine.

[chrisab123]

Lol the according to the General Board congrats to the Eastern Conference Champion Raptors and coach of the year Nick Nurse

[Fantaxp7]

Assuming both team are healthy, we still have the edge.

As far as where things actually are, Kawhi is still an enigma.

That news that said Ainge was unwilling to make any move without some assurance of Kawhi's health is crazy to me. As far as we know there was nothing done to prove this.

And now the news that Kawhi is warming up to playing for the Raptors...

We have our own questions for health, however it is not nearly as serious, if Hayward and Irving aren't 100% until the end of the season, well, we've seen just how good our team is with out them.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

It's not even worth addressing at this point. We think we are better. They think they are better. Only one way to find out. I now think that Boston vs. Toronto will be the season opener

[Moose23]

Lol the according to the General Board congrats to the Eastern Conference Champion Raptors and coach of the year Nick Nurse

so sayeth the most annoying fanbase in the world.

if Nurse does with COY do they fire him?

[Edug27]

If healthy, the Raps will be a force. They can easily grab the top seed and make life tough for us in a 7 game series. But, if healthy, Boston should be better. Either way.. it’ll be a crazy hard fought series between the 2 teams. Kawhi will give Tatum nightmares.

[Moose23]

If healthy, the Raps will be a force. They can easily grab the top seed and make life tough for us in a 7 game series. But, if healthy, Boston should be better. Either way.. it’ll be a crazy hard fought series between the 2 teams. Kawhi will give Tatum nightmares.

Thats fine if Kawhi bothers tatum.

Who is gonna guard Hayward? Brown? Irving? horford?

Irving does very well against Lowry.

Green is too slow to keep up to brown cutting all over the place.
OG isnt gonna keep Hayward in front of him consistantly.

ANd Horford with either bully Siakam or run rings around JV.

[3D Chess]

Ok 4 threads was fine but these Drake pics are taking it too far. Enough.

[UNCBlue012]

Grabbing Leonard is obviously terrific for Toronto, but Danny Green is an underrated shooter they desperately needed. I think we are favorites but this really improves their squad.

[3D Chess]

Grabbing Leonard is obviously terrific for Toronto, but Danny Green is an underrated shooter they desperately needed. I think we are favorites but this really improves their squad.

Danny Green's last 3 years;

37% FG 33% 3P
39% FG 37% 3P
38% FG 36% 3P

That ain't good shootin'.

[Edug27]

If healthy, the Raps will be a force. They can easily grab the top seed and make life tough for us in a 7 game series. But, if healthy, Boston should be better. Either way.. it’ll be a crazy hard fought series between the 2 teams. Kawhi will give Tatum nightmares.

Thats fine if Kawhi bothers tatum.

Who is gonna guard Hayward? Brown? Irving? horford?

Irving does very well against Lowry.

Green is too slow to keep up to brown cutting all over the place.
OG isnt gonna keep Hayward in front of him consistantly.

ANd Horford with either bully Siakam or run rings around JV.

By no means am I saying that the Raps would beat us. I'm just saying the Raps, again if healthy, will be a lot better than we think. But so will we. It'll be a great series.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

4 more pages and we can lock this up and move all Kawhi talk to the Around the NBA thread.

[CeltsfaninDC]

No ones debating if it’s a great spot or not for Boston.

You’re saying Leonard isn’t close to the offensive player that DeMar is and that isn’t true.

Kawhi can score with the best of them. The fact that there’s no one around him besides Lowry will only mean he gets even more of an opportunity to score at will. In Pops system ISO ball isn’t much of a thing. In Toronto, it’s everything.

So your argument is that he was really good working within a system where the ball was shared and he had a bunch of really good teammates to share the ball with and this means he going to be AS good or even BETTER because he’s playing in a completely different system now? Seriously? You just made the point that he is going into a system where he HAS to be the offensive focus and will be in iso regularly and thats good? Without all those guys around him he will be doubled. He will need to pass out of the double except now is he passing to (the corpse of) Ibaka and a bunch of other guys that can’t shoot very well and are really good at standing around watching DD play. I’m 100% fine with this trade regardless of whether he stays after one year or not.

Yes. Ball being shared + better offense weapons = less individual scoring. Not a hard concept to grasp.

Sig bet 60 days: Kawhi does not average 30 pts/gm or more next season. Not a hard concept to grasp if you believe it

[CeltsfaninDC]

Have to feel good for DeMar DeRozan.

Even if he doesn't know it, he is much better off, and will realize that soon.

To escape Toronto, high crime and no English language, no sports champions, the worst venue in the NBA, the huge taxes, no sunlight, no hope, the move will be great for DeMar and his health and his wealth.

And apparently, based on the responses to this, Canadians have no sense of humor

[BigShaq34]

boston is still slightly better but kawhi doesnt want to be in toronto hence he might not play with his absolute full potential that worries me

[BigTrade92]

So your argument is that he was really good working within a system where the ball was shared and he had a bunch of really good teammates to share the ball with and this means he going to be AS good or even BETTER because he’s playing in a completely different system now? Seriously? You just made the point that he is going into a system where he HAS to be the offensive focus and will be in iso regularly and thats good? Without all those guys around him he will be doubled. He will need to pass out of the double except now is he passing to (the corpse of) Ibaka and a bunch of other guys that can’t shoot very well and are really good at standing around watching DD play. I’m 100% fine with this trade regardless of whether he stays after one year or not.

Yes. Ball being shared + better offense weapons = less individual scoring. Not a hard concept to grasp.

Sig bet 60 days: Kawhi does not average 30 pts/gm or more next season. Not a hard concept to grasp if you believe it

Considering neither Leonard nor DeRozan have ever averaged that in a season, that's a worthless bet to propose.

[sully00]

Lol no. What it tells me is that the Raptors are consistently a better team with DeRozan off the floor. You are not going to find another All-Star player posting negative net ratings every year.

You're literally saying that Toronto being better with DeRozan off the floor year in and year out is somehow not a negative on DeRozan. Think about that for a second.

What the stat is telling you is that in the 13-15 minutes DeRozan is not on the court every game, Toronto performs better. Point blank. Period. It's not like it's a one-year anomaly either. This is every year.

Don't call it a "stupid stat" just because you don't understand it.

No it doesn't. Toronto's starters all around +7 which not surprisingly is roughly the difference between their offensive rating 114 (2nd best in the league) and there defensive rating 106 (5th best in the league). Their bench outperforms opposing team's benches adding to that differential but that doesn't take away from DeRozan impact. You need to understand roles and situations. You need to look at all of the stats and see how they paint a picture of a situation and not harp one thing over and over to contrary evidence of everything else.

When you look at either advanced or traditional statistics DeMar DeRozan is Toronto second most productive and effective player. He is very good offensively and it is probably fair to wonder what is going on with him defensively at times. But focusing on the 7 mins around the quarters he doesn't play each half just doesn't mean much. What you can gleam form TOR's plus/minus is that Anunoby made a HUGE difference for their team especially when inserted into the starting line up.

But more information not less don't try to dumb things down one number it doesn't work.

Your argument is that it's because Toronto's bench is good. If that were the case, then why has Lowry had a VERY high positive net rating every damn year up until this past year when he was basically a wash?

Your argument is false.

Again, if DeRozan had a negative net rating one year, I would say it's an anomaly, but he hasn't. He has had a negative net rating in all but ONE of his seasons, and you can't just play the "well Toronto had a good bench!!!" argument for every one of those years. It's ignorant.

It also doesn't matter that their bench "outperforms other teams' benches." The point is that they are better when DeRozan is OFF THE FLOOR. You DO realize he plays 33-35 minutes per game, which means that he is playing with bench guys a lot, correct?

Take Kawhi for example. In 2014, the Spurs had, by FAR, the best bench in the league (and definitely a better bench than last year's Toronto squad). Yet, in spite of that fact, Kawhi had a plus-3.8 net rating.

You are not going to find a top 15 player that posts negative net ratings every single year. It just doesn't happen. Again, I could see your side of the argument if DeRozan just had one off year, but that isn't the case.

So, yeah. You're wrong.

Do you understand what this stat is telling you? Of course you can have a negative net everyyear and be a great player. You could play 42 mins a game and outscore your opponents by 10. But if your team continues to blow opponents out by even more points without you then guess what you have a negative net.

You want to talk about the difference between Lowry and DeRozan. Two years ago Lowry was a 8.7 net and DeRozan was a -4.7 to you that means that DeRozan is somehow a lesser player because are trying to make this stat into something that it is not. What you not factoring in is that Lowry missed 24 games. Do you think the team may have struggled on the +/- side during that stretch? The team went 15-7 without Lowry which is solid but that doesn't factor into your stat.

Same season same team who lead the Raptors in +/- and net? Patrick Patterson who had a +10 and +10 net. This information was so vital to the Raptors he didn't even have a consistent role in their rotation and they let him go in FA and the team got better.

[Son Goku 25]

Assuming both team are healthy, we still have the edge.

As far as where things actually are, Kawhi is still an enigma.

That news that said Ainge was unwilling to make any move without some assurance of Kawhi's health is crazy to me. As far as we know there was nothing done to prove this.

And now the news that Kawhi is warming up to playing for the Raptors...

We have our own questions for health, however it is not nearly as serious, if Hayward and Irving aren't 100% until the end of the season, well, we've seen just how good our team is with out them.

Curious to know how the Celtics have an edge of a healthy Raptors team.

[Son Goku 25]

It's not even worth addressing at this point. We think we are better. They think they are better. Only one way to find out. I now think that Boston vs. Toronto will be the season opener

Should be a Christmas game as well.