Demar Vents Frustration About Loyalty

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Has he been disloyal? Of course! He knew full well stating that view for everyone to see that the org lied to him is completely throwing the org under the bus for the great two-way relationship there has been for the past 9 seasons.


Same applies to the org. Do we judge Toronto Raps organization's treatment of DeMar on a management mistep of not telling him there's still a chance he's being traded, or do we judge the Raps on how they treated DD on their total body of work?

If you are attempting to advocate that DD remained loyal based upon the entirety of his tenure and you want to throw out his intent to tarnish the Raps org with his social media posts (yes there is 100% intent there, no doubt), then the same must apply to the org that and their treatment of DD over the entire tenure.

Or he's simply venting in reaction to something he totally didn't expect.

for 9 years he's towed the company line and not vented publicly on anything, why start now?

I've posted many times that I don't believe he was lied to by this organization and stand by that. But I can acknowledge that he perceives things that way. We don't know, there's a lot of grey area in those conversations. I stated that Masai just doesn't seem like the type to lie to one of his players. I think he truly believed he wasn't trading him at the time they sat down and chatted. So there were some assurances given in some manner, whether they were outright our subtle.

I'm not going to judge Demar off of a reaction to a post on social media just as I'm not taking his word that he was lied to. But as I stated above, he was nothing but a good soldier here his whole time, he was part of the most successful period of basketball in this city, there were many great moments shared. That's it. There is enough basketball reasons to justify this deal, there's no need to focus on the off court stuff, especially some of the BS on here that is just being made up. It's unnecessary.

Thanks for your time Demar, you'll be missed and now we move on with Kawhi. Which is a great deal for this organization. Simple as that.

FTR, I think DeMar has been very good for the Raps over the years, I just don't buy this loyalty narrative being pushed forward.

[djsunyc]

the issue here for all of us is that we don't know the real story. he didn't speak yet and neither did ujiri. so we are all left in the dark.

[XxIronChainzxX]

He's upset he has to go to a franchise that will hold him accountable and not just hand him the keys to the franchise and max contracts for mediocre all around play

No he's not. This is the kind of stupid BS responses we get. He's upset cause he's loyal, that's his nature and he wanted to be that guy that played for Toronto his whole career. He wanted to be one of those rare guys that does that. It didn't happen. There's nothing in Demar's past that says he's afraid of being held accountable. This is a dumb narrative spewed by his haters.

You are allowed to not like his game and be happy he's gone. You don't need to make up stuff to justify that.

He got traded for a simple reason: he's not good enough. Loyalty is nice. But he failed repeatedly on the biggest stage for this franchise. This is being held accountable. If you want to be a franchise player and spend your entire career in once place you've got to perform. DD didn't. It's not about winning. It's not about loyalty. It's simply about not being a good enough player to be untouchable.

[Mikistan]

So only a person of Nelson Mandela's ilk can have his character assassinated? Seriously, think about what your saying. Nobody is claiming Demar is Mother Theresa here. But people are making up a bunch of BS and the question begs, why are people making up stuff that has nothing to do with his basketball contributions? I have never once stated that I hate this trade, I actually love it. At the same time I can acknowledge why Demar is upset by it and why so many fans are hurt.

All I've responded to so far is a bunch of BS that's being made up that Demar is this or that and that x or y happened off the court which all of these people have absolutely no evidence to support.

Nobody is making **** up. Unless they know derozan personally I doubt anyone can be sure. Different people gets different interpretation from his actions which is all that is tangible we have on him.
While u might see that he is hurt and felt betrayed by management I see him as egotistical and immature. I am not actually making stuff up and saying he did this and that. The fact is I think it's silly to vent on social media and it doesn't do anybody any good. And while I've been told he took a discount stem from loyalty, I see it as that he accepted a hefty contract from a franchise that can offer him the most money.
This loyalty business is overblown I don't think he would have re-signed here if he didn't enjoy being here and didn't see that he would be in a good situation.

You may be taking this out of context. When Mikistan said: "it was because Masai told him straight up... Look how you don't effect the game on defense, don't pass enough, and don't hit 3s,you aren't worth the full max," whysoserious then questioned whether this claim was made up. Frankly, I don't recall Masai saying this either and it would be outside his character to say this IMO.

As for feeling betrayed, DeRozan said he was told outright by the Raptors that he would not be included in any Kawhi deal. You can't misinterpret something like this. Regardless of how much you make, being traded to another team is a major change for any player and his family, so I think DeRozan is within his right to call this out without being chastised for it.

I actually disagree that it is "outside of Masai" character to tell Demar the truth.

I base it on the report of Masai sitting Lowry down first his first extension, telling Lowry he was a percieved coach-killer and bad attitude - Lowry signed 3 years or whatever at 10M a year, grew into an all-star, and then Masai honoured Lowry's past by giving him this 3 year 100+ million contract for playing ball.

You guys are now telling me that Masai went in to Demar, after 2015-2016 and said "Demar, you are our franchise player, you get the full max you are entitled to!"
Like Masai was so blinded by making the ECF and having 4 losses to Lebron's Cavs by an average of 20+ points didn't matter, he just wanted to give away money.

And Demar said
: "No way man, I am so loyal, I am staying AND giving you a discount to stay!!!!"


Comon guys, I don't need a source to know that Demar "being loyal" is why he got paid more by the Raptors than any other team could even offer him.

[XxIronChainzxX]

How on Earth are you guys killing DeMar for being in his feelings? The Raptors have him everything, he didn't ask for it. They made him the number 1 option when he wasn't worthy, again he never asked for that. He got comfortable with that. It's human man.

Why do Raptor fans always gotta kill guys who leave? WE GOT KAWHI **** LEONARD, WE SHOULD BE CELEBRATING IN THE STREETS.

Yet y'all wanna spend your time dumping on DeMar. Raptor fans confuse me man.

Cause these players **** on the franchise when they do it. Carroll did it. Bosh did it. DD is doing it.

[TrustFundBaby]

sorry how much did Korver and JR make?

'he left a few million for us". Yeah the Raptor fans are terrible, it took 3 sweeps in 4 years for this finally to happen.

Enjoy it ****

Maybe we should of put a team around him instead of a 33 year old Lowry?

But yeah it's DD's fault.

Korver and JR are not All NBA All Stars...

You do realize that the team performed better in the playoffs with Derozan on the bench right? Statistically, factually, those are the numbers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/900cpd/demar_derozans_playoff_plusminus_has_been/

But yah, its the team's fault

Infuriating

How ppl gloss over this is crazy

DD is good character man, but he's not a winner

You can't be loyal to mediocrity

2Pat loved us and the City, and we didn't even resign him.
Why DD supposed to get special treatment?

[whysoserious]

for 9 years he's towed the company line and not vented publicly on anything, why start now?

The guy is hurt, does he not have the right to be hurt? His entire career he's posted about being disrespected by the US media, not getting his due, the city not getting respect, the franchise not being respected and all that. Why would we expect anything different here. He's an emotional dude and reacted. So be it, many people react this way. Why should that be held against him?

He hasn't outright said anything since that one series of posts.


FTR, I think DeMar has been very good for the Raps over the years, I just don't buy this loyalty narrative being pushed forward.[/quote]

I'm more indifferent to the loyalty thing in general. I'm just trying to point out there's a bunch of people around here that are specifically ripping his character and bringing up off court stuff that is their own personal opinion, stating it as fact and using that to justify their hate for Demar the player and I'm saying it's unnecessary. There's enough basketball reasons to support trading him away, the other stuff is just fluff and BS.

[Bankai]

the issue here for all of us is that we don't know the real story. he didn't speak yet and neither did ujiri. so we are all left in the dark.

The Raptors have said straight up that everyone was available for a trade. No one is untouchable. It sucks that the casualty ended up being Demar, but let's not act like the Raptors snaked him. They told everyone beforehand what their intentions were.

[Chandan]

I'm more indifferent to the loyalty thing in general. I'm just trying to point out there's a bunch of people around here that are specifically ripping his character and bringing up off court stuff that is their own personal opinion, stating it as fact and using that to justify their hate for Demar the player and I'm saying it's unnecessary. There's enough basketball reasons to support trading him away, the other stuff is just fluff and BS.

it was all basketball stuff until he went on social media and proclaimed to the world how he was back-stabbed.

[whysoserious]

He's upset he has to go to a franchise that will hold him accountable and not just hand him the keys to the franchise and max contracts for mediocre all around play

No he's not. This is the kind of stupid BS responses we get. He's upset cause he's loyal, that's his nature and he wanted to be that guy that played for Toronto his whole career. He wanted to be one of those rare guys that does that. It didn't happen. There's nothing in Demar's past that says he's afraid of being held accountable. This is a dumb narrative spewed by his haters.

You are allowed to not like his game and be happy he's gone. You don't need to make up stuff to justify that.

He got traded for a simple reason: he's not good enough. Loyalty is nice. But he failed repeatedly on the biggest stage for this franchise. This is being held accountable. If you want to be a franchise player and spend your entire career in once place you've got to perform. DD didn't. It's not about winning. It's not about loyalty. It's simply about not being a good enough player to be untouchable.

I agree 100%. There's enough basketball reasons to discuss trading Demar, why focus on the fluff. Which is why I called out a few guys who were specifically making up stuff with no evidence and continue to do so stating their opinion as fact on issues that don't matter and they have 0 insight in to.

[whysoserious]

I'm more indifferent to the loyalty thing in general. I'm just trying to point out there's a bunch of people around here that are specifically ripping his character and bringing up off court stuff that is their own personal opinion, stating it as fact and using that to justify their hate for Demar the player and I'm saying it's unnecessary. There's enough basketball reasons to support trading him away, the other stuff is just fluff and BS.

it was all basketball stuff until he went on social media and proclaimed to the world how he was back-stabbed.

Again, that's been his history. You have a different standard for how to use social media then he does. He felt he was lied to and reacted emotionally. You can call it an immature reaction and you may be right, but it has nothing to do in response to his loyalty, if anything it kind of confirms his commitment to the city and organization and how hurt he is.

I stated above, from his perception of things, it's understandable that he reads the situation as being lied to. That's fine. I don't believe it. But I also don't care and he hasn't said anything since that first reaction to finding out he was going to be traded.

[XxIronChainzxX]

again, what exactly is this entire history and character other than "he wants to be here" in a situation that benefits him.
I've mentioned multiple times, what he does is pretty much the norm for nba players. Talk good about the city, back a few charities, shoots videos of his workout. What exactly separates him from let's say.... Jonas Valanciuas?

I acknowledge that there's many reasons for him to want to stay here. Those all play in to it. There's lots of NBA players that like where they are because it benefits them, so why do you and others feel the need to dismiss it when a guy like Demar is on his way out? What does it benefit you?

Again, I go back to it, why is his character up for discussion or being hated on? There's enough basketball reasons to discuss the trade and why we did it. Why do we even need to focus on the loyalty aspect? I certainly am not. I'm only questioning those that are making stuff up about his character which was my original response in this thread with no facts to back them up. That is what I was responding to.

Whether he's loyal or not, who cares. He was a good soldier in his time in Toronto. He played hard, he worked hard, he was a part of our most successful period as a franchise. Thanks for that Demar. If he feels he was lied to and is disappointed he's not in Toronto anymore, why should we hate him for that?

His character is being hated on because he made it an issue. He specifically accused the franchise of treating him poorly despite his high character (loyalty) and wanting people to think it is unfair. He's gotten a lot of NBA players to **** on Toronto at a crucial time for the team. It's petty.

[Mikistan]

[
So you admit there is no report on what transpired to convert that "discount"


But we are supposed to take the media stance that "demar took a discount for loyalty"

Okayyyy

Well if you have something to back up your claims than put it out there. Otherwise you're just doing the Trump thing of stating something as fact, doubling down on it with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

You made the claim, not me so back it up. Or go ahead and spew more BS on here that's fake with no facts behind it other than your opinion.

As I stated before, you can back up not liking Demar and his game and how this trade improves the team going forward. You can discuss his negative value based on whatever stats you want to present. There's no need to go in to character assassination mode just cause you don't like the guy's game.

This was the point I was making by asking Mikistan for the source of his Masai quote. I knew, as did all of you he had none.

It is completely fine to have an opinion. We all do. However, trying to pass your opinion off as fact is something that all to often gets posted here.

And just because there is no evidence to refute your opinion, doesn’t make it a fact. It’s still an opinion until YOU provide actual evidence to support it.

Last point Mikistan. If you get called out on trying to pass opinion off as fact, it does not mean the person disagrees with your opinion. It’s just that they value facts as facts.

You can believe you know why Masai didn’t offer the max and state your opinion, but you would be better served using subtle words like, imo or I believe unless you are able to provide a source to back up someone else’s quote.

Oh, and could you provide a source where the media states Demar took a discount out of loyalty.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Good points all around, let me summarize my viewpoint below:

1) There is no quote or media report to indicate Derozan "actually" took/asked for a discount in 2016
2) There is no quote or media report indicating Masai didn't offer the full Max in 2016
3) All Loyalty/discount talk is opinion and not fact, the closest i can find from 2016 is a "probballreport.com" article saying discount, with no quotes, just because it wasnt the full max it was their opinion

4) it's not a discount, if its your highest offer...

[Chandan]

the issue here for all of us is that we don't know the real story. he didn't speak yet and neither did ujiri. so we are all left in the dark.

The Raptors have said straight up that everyone was available for a trade. No one is untouchable. It sucks that the casualty ended up being Demar, but let's not act like the Raptors snaked him. They told everyone beforehand what their intentions were.

and if derozan went to management asking "are you going to trade me away for a rental?", which is equivalent of a needy girlfriend asking "do you still love me?" while the dude is still on the fence. It's not the management's fault for giving him a quick easy answer.

some questions you dont ask

[whysoserious]

His character is being hated on because he made it an issue. He specifically accused the franchise of treating him poorly despite his high character (loyalty) and wanting people to think it is unfair. He's gotten a lot of NBA players to **** on Toronto at a crucial time for the team. It's petty.

He posted one thing in response to being traded and his perception of being told another thing. He hasn't seed bleep since. We don't know if he's campaigning against the city among other players. Players are reacting on their own and most of them are just bit players.

This is the calculated risk Masai is taking in an attempt to win the whole thing. But Demar has kept quiet since then. If he comes out stating more stuff then fine, but I'm not going to overreact to his emotional response at 3-4am to finding out he'd been traded from a franchise he wanted to spend his entire career with.

[XxIronChainzxX]

No he's not. This is the kind of stupid BS responses we get. He's upset cause he's loyal, that's his nature and he wanted to be that guy that played for Toronto his whole career. He wanted to be one of those rare guys that does that. It didn't happen. There's nothing in Demar's past that says he's afraid of being held accountable. This is a dumb narrative spewed by his haters.

You are allowed to not like his game and be happy he's gone. You don't need to make up stuff to justify that.

He got traded for a simple reason: he's not good enough. Loyalty is nice. But he failed repeatedly on the biggest stage for this franchise. This is being held accountable. If you want to be a franchise player and spend your entire career in once place you've got to perform. DD didn't. It's not about winning. It's not about loyalty. It's simply about not being a good enough player to be untouchable.

I agree 100%. There's enough basketball reasons to discuss trading Demar, why focus on the fluff. Which is why I called out a few guys who were specifically making up stuff with no evidence and continue to do so stating their opinion as fact on issues that don't matter and they have 0 insight in to.

But we don't agree. I don't think calling DeMar out for loyalty is fluff. The kind of loyalty he wants is what teams save for their ATGs. People like Dirk and Kobe who win rings and MVPs and brand their name into the NBA as the greatest to ever play the game. They get to retire with one team kicking back any $$ they want because they gave the franchise something incredible.

The loyalty Toronto showed DeMar was commensurate to his talent and I think all of this is about his bruised ego.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

for 9 years he's towed the company line and not vented publicly on anything, why start now?

The guy is hurt, does he not have the right to be hurt? His entire career he's posted about being disrespected by the US media, not getting his due, the city not getting respect, the franchise not being respected and all that. Why would we expect anything different here. He's an emotional dude and reacted. So be it, many people react this way. Why should that be held against him?

He hasn't outright said anything since that one series of posts.

I didn't say anything with his right to being hurt and he most certainly does. Reacted you say? A reaction would be to yell and scream and act out within your inner circle. Taking to time to craft the social media message and posting it shows the intent to lash back out at the franchise and attempt to hurt them back. That isn't a reaction and most certainly isn't showing loyalty to an org you've spent 9 years with.

Like I stated in an earlier post...it's extremely easy to be loyal when everything is going your way (money, focal point, winning), it becomes increasingly difficult to stay loyal when you don't get your way. Pops showed what being loyal means, DeMar showed he was loyal when he felt he wasn't being disrespected. Big difference there.

FTR, I think DeMar has been very good for the Raps over the years, I just don't buy this loyalty narrative being pushed forward.

I'm more indifferent to the loyalty thing in general. I'm just trying to point out there's a bunch of people around here that are specifically ripping his character and bringing up off court stuff that is their own personal opinion, stating it as fact and using that to justify their hate for Demar the player and I'm saying it's unnecessary. There's enough basketball reasons to support trading him away, the other stuff is just fluff and BS.

I tend to agree, but the way media and the likes are making it about the non-basketball reasons is enough to have the conversation with regards to DeRozan's actions as well (of course only the factual evidence).

[GoodOne]

I've said this many times before. Players owe NOTHING to Organizations or the Fans because they will flip on you the second it is more convenient for you to be gone. As a Player, you have to look out for you & your family first because if you are fooling yourself to thinking the organization or the fans are loyal to you, you are delusional. The moment they can get a better player, or that you start to fade in talent then suddenly their loyalty miraculously goes too. Maybe now DD can understand this is a business first & foremost and to look out for himself because no one else will.

And DeMar has already taken care of his personal life. He could retire tomorrow and him and his family could live like kings for the rest of their lives. Plus, he is still under contract to make lots more money. So, why the sour grapes DeMar? You already knew that sport is a business. There are no guarantees in life for anyone - welcome to the club! That being said, thanks for your contributions while you were here, and I wish you all the best in San Antonio.

[BramptonYute]

I've said this many times before. Players owe NOTHING to Organizations or the Fans because they will flip on you the second it is more convenient for you to be gone. As a Player, you have to look out for you & your family first because if you are fooling yourself to thinking the organization or the fans are loyal to you, you are delusional. The moment they can get a better player, or that you start to fade in talent then suddenly their loyalty miraculously goes too. Maybe now DD can understand this is a business first & foremost and to look out for himself because no one else will.

And DeMar has already taken care of his personal life. He could retire tomorrow and him and his family could live like kings for the rest of their lives. Plus, he is still under contract to make lots more money. So, why the sour grapes DeMar? You already knew that sport is a business. There are no guarantees in life for anyone - welcome to the club! That being said, thanks for your contributions while you were here, and I wish you all the best in San Antonio.

The sour grapes are because he was literally told he wont be traded and then he was traded. If masai had said "theres still a chance you're gone" then I dont think he's mad at all.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

[Chandan]

But we don't agree. I don't think calling DeMar out for loyalty is fluff. The kind of loyalty he wants is what teams save for their ATGs. People like Dirk and Kobe who win rings and MVPs and brand their name into the NBA as the greatest to ever play the game. They get to retire with one team kicking back any $$ they want because they gave the franchise something incredible.

The loyalty Toronto showed DeMar was commensurate to his talent and I think all of this is about his bruised ego.

let's face it. Toronto is literally the ONLY place he can even sniff that kind of status, there's no way he doesn't know it. That's the reason why I've always been extra vigilant when it comes to PR stuff with derozan.