OT: Leonard Thread - Will you miss Kawhi Leonard?

[TheBomb81]

Will he get his jersey retired someday in the rafters?

[Donald Kaufman]

Mixed feelings. I love me a defensive minded player, and KL was the best I've ever seen. Plus the way he evolved into a deadly offensive force was fun to witness.

I'm not sure if he gets his jersey retired. Probably not. He won a title, finals MVP, 2 x DPOY - which alone should give the team something to think about. I think his nasty exit will probably be forgotten soon enough.

[gpoon]

Mixed feelings. I love me a defensive minded player, and KL was the best I've ever seen. Plus the way he evolved into a deadly offensive force was fun to witness.

I'm not sure if he gets his jersey retired. Probably not. He won a title, finals MVP, 2 x DPOY - which alone should give the team something to think about. I think his nasty exit will probably be forgotten soon enough.

it took like 20 years but Toronto has mostly forgiven Vince

[imagump1313]

Its like an old girlfriend.

You miss them once in awhile but then you remember all the drama that comes with them and you feel much better they are gone.......

[UDRIH14]

going to missed him, but have to move on..

looking forward to DD see if pop can improved other facets of his game...
actually i like watching the development of players to final product...cant wait to see what walker, blossom, murray, white has improved, those are the 4 guys im interested in watchin this year...

as for retiring kl jersey? no...spurs wiill do something just to be professional, but why show respect when they welch on you like that...

[Donald Kaufman]

Avery Johnson accomplished a lot less, but admittedly was a class act all the way.

[BVB24]

Going to miss his production, certainly. Going to miss being a contender obviously. And I'm sure it'll suck more when he's tearing it up for Toronto and the Lakers over the next few years. But I'm not going to miss the insane drama and baggage he brought with him over the past 7 months. He and his uncle are clowns and I'm glad the circus is no longer in town.

[Javier Acosta]

Yes

[ObiWan_Ginobili]

If you go just on his resume I’d say he’d probably deserve to have his jersey retired;
2x DPOY, Finals MVP, Champion etc

But I feel that for your jersey to be retired a large element is off the court team activities as well.
Which is why Avery, Elliot and Bowen, all who are less talented than Kawhi have their jerseys retired. Those guys gave everything to the Spurs, for a long period of time.

I feel that Leonard’s less than amicable exit will leave a bitter taste for a good long while and probably cost him having his jersey retired.

All that being said, while I’m unhappy with how it all played out I will miss watching Kawhi in the silver and black.



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[Donald Kaufman]

I'll keep up with Kawhi (and Green) in Toronto. I always keep an eye on ex-Spurs to see how they're tracking. Cool to see Baynes find a niche in Boston, and I'm consistently entertained by Boban. I probably won't bother keeping up with Slo-Mo in Memphis though. Seems like a cool guy but I can't stand watching him play.

[Ballings7]

I'll definitely miss him. Its unfortunate how his state with the Spurs broke down in blocks.. I just don't see where and why it went wrong, and if he is actually that sensitive with the injury diagnosis... and shouldn't be something where he wants to leave.

I blame bad influences, for now..

Anyhow, I'd say we got his best years, or at least will of had the majority of them in the end. 2013-2017. He won't be where-ever he is without the Spurs.

[HitTheJ]

Mixed feelings. I love me a defensive minded player, and KL was the best I've ever seen. Plus the way he evolved into a deadly offensive force was fun to witness.

I'm not sure if he gets his jersey retired. Probably not. He won a title, finals MVP, 2 x DPOY - which alone should give the team something to think about. I think his nasty exit will probably be forgotten soon enough.

A title, finals MVP, 2xDPOY and still probably wont get retired.

That only would get you statue other places.

[UDRIH14]

they wont retire his number man, he nearly set the franchise back to the stone age with his bs

remember when we all waited for the bowen replacement all those years, to land him?
remember when spurs continue to waste draft picks looking for that backup pg? they eventually found him
as the same above, now they got a bunch of youth players to develop...just as excited watching all those draft picks over the years on the spurs getting developing mounting to something...

we all wanted the youth movement, now we are getting it, about time too since the 3 tosb are all retiring or not taking up heavy minutes ahead of younger players

[Donald Kaufman]

I'm wondering how long until we get the 30 for 30 type investigative story on this situation? I'll be watching, that's for sure.

I'm still at a loss as to what happened, how it all spiraled like it did.

[RonaldArtest]

I'm wondering how long until we get the 30 for 30 type investigative story on this situation? I'll be watching, that's for sure.

I'm still at a loss as to what happened, how it all spiraled like it did.

Is there a general consensus as to who's the guilty party in the relationship falling out? From an outsider, do fans largely feel like he quit on the spurs? Or is there a bitterness with management and folks feel Kawhi's actions were possibly justified? Again I'm a Raptors fan and haven't followed him a ton, but his exit from your franchise seemed pretty out of character to me.

[Donald Kaufman]

Is there a general consensus as to who's the guilty party in the relationship falling out? From an outsider, do fans largely feel like he quit on the spurs? Or is there a bitterness with management and folks feel Kawhi's actions were possibly justified? Again I'm a Raptors fan and haven't followed him a ton, but his exit from your franchise seemed pretty out of character to me.

Uncle Dennis is to blame. 100%.

I'm half kidding, but who is to say who should accept the blame? All sides, probably.

Unless you're within the organization and privy to all the goings-on of the day-to-day machinations, it's all speculation and hearsay. I feel like Kawhi could've handled things a lot better, but again - he feels let down by the Spurs, the medical staff in particular. Interesting that Danny Green - a total class act - came out and said he was playing on a misdiagnosed groin tear for part of last season. That carries some weight. Maybe the Spurs have to accept at least part of the blame in this.

It's funny that you say Kawhi's actions seemed out of character - I honestly don't know what his character actually is. He seemed chilled - quiet, obviously - and focused on basketball. Didn't want or need the spotlight. Perfect star to build a team around in a smallish market. He quickly changed my mind on that.

[imagump1313]

I'm wondering how long until we get the 30 for 30 type investigative story on this situation? I'll be watching, that's for sure.

I'm still at a loss as to what happened, how it all spiraled like it did.

Is there a general consensus as to who's the guilty party in the relationship falling out? From an outsider, do fans largely feel like he quit on the spurs? Or is there a bitterness with management and folks feel Kawhi's actions were possibly justified? Again I'm a Raptors fan and haven't followed him a ton, but his exit from your franchise seemed pretty out of character to me.

I really don't think there is any bitterness with management outside of the national talking heads that seem to have a bone to pick with the Spurs because they have been good for soo long.
If I remember right, wasn't it Leonard who got pissed because he wanted to continue playing in the WCF after spraining his ankle but the Spurs shut him down to protect him?
Then he wants to claim that the team was pushing for him to play hurt the very next year? In the regular season? His arguments have never made sense.

People want what they want. If he really was unhappy and wanted out then just say so. Dont make up BS stories to get your own way. I would have had much more respect for him had he just said he wanted to play in LA and not have his people make stuff up to try and justify his actions.

And yes, IMO most Spurs fans feel he quit on the team and while it sucks for everyone we are glad he isn't our problem anymore.

[RonaldArtest]

Is there a general consensus as to who's the guilty party in the relationship falling out? From an outsider, do fans largely feel like he quit on the spurs? Or is there a bitterness with management and folks feel Kawhi's actions were possibly justified? Again I'm a Raptors fan and haven't followed him a ton, but his exit from your franchise seemed pretty out of character to me.

Uncle Dennis is to blame. 100%.

I'm half kidding, but who is to say who should accept the blame? All sides, probably.

Unless you're within the organization and privy to all the goings-on of the day-to-day machinations, it's all speculation and hearsay. I feel like Kawhi could've handled things a lot better, but again - he feels let down by the Spurs, the medical staff in particular. Interesting that Danny Green - a total class act - came out and said he was playing on a misdiagnosed groin tear for part of last season. That carries some weight. Maybe the Spurs have to accept at least part of the blame in this.

It's funny that you say Kawhi's actions seemed out of character - I honestly don't know what his character actually is. He seemed chilled - quiet, obviously - and focused on basketball. Didn't want or need the spotlight. Perfect star to build a team around in a smallish market. He quickly changed my mind on that.

That's what I assumed, he was a quiet star player who just went about his business professionally. At least that what it seemed like from afar, but I guess people change. Certainly feels like he's got some negative influences in his life. Thanks for the insight.

[CoachD]

Hi Spurs fans ... Raptor fan here, with a real question.

I have been thinking that Toronto's best lineup this season would feature Kawhi at the 2

Lowry
Kawhi
OG
Siakam
Valanciunas

That's an INSANE amount of length, defense, and a ton of offensive weapons

So the question...

Is there any reason Kawhi couldn't play the 2 full time? Apparently the Raptor coach spoke to him about it and he likes the idea

Thoughts?

[G R E Y]

I'm wondering how long until we get the 30 for 30 type investigative story on this situation? I'll be watching, that's for sure.

I'm still at a loss as to what happened, how it all spiraled like it did.

Is there a general consensus as to who's the guilty party in the relationship falling out? From an outsider, do fans largely feel like he quit on the spurs? Or is there a bitterness with management and folks feel Kawhi's actions were possibly justified? Again I'm a Raptors fan and haven't followed him a ton, but his exit from your franchise seemed pretty out of character to me.

The shorter version is -- what gump said.

In general, you have to look at behaviour over time. So the guy who drove an old car has to be taken in the context of everything else that's transpired in between - some of it from way back in 2014 (but who could have predicted the early signs would lead to this?) - until the public blindsiding of the Spurs with the trade demand. And as for the bad influences, Leonard doesn't get a pass. We kept hearing that Leonard is his own man, well then it's on him how he chose to behave and how others did on his behalf. Looking at the totality of events, what transpired was actually about as in character as behaviour over time showed it to be. Follow the ego stroking (and where it wasn't given) and the money (and where it wasn't offered).

Is there a general consensus as to who's the guilty party in the relationship falling out? From an outsider, do fans largely feel like he quit on the spurs? Or is there a bitterness with management and folks feel Kawhi's actions were possibly justified? Again I'm a Raptors fan and haven't followed him a ton, but his exit from your franchise seemed pretty out of character to me.

Uncle Dennis is to blame. 100%.

I'm half kidding, but who is to say who should accept the blame? All sides, probably.

Unless you're within the organization and privy to all the goings-on of the day-to-day machinations, it's all speculation and hearsay. I feel like Kawhi could've handled things a lot better, but again - he feels let down by the Spurs, the medical staff in particular. Interesting that Danny Green - a total class act - came out and said he was playing on a misdiagnosed groin tear for part of last season. That carries some weight. Maybe the Spurs have to accept at least part of the blame in this.

It's funny that you say Kawhi's actions seemed out of character - I honestly don't know what his character actually is. He seemed chilled - quiet, obviously - and focused on basketball. Didn't want or need the spotlight. Perfect star to build a team around in a smallish market. He quickly changed my mind on that.

As to the first bold part, it's really not all speculation and hearsay, though, because we have direct quotes from Pop, R.C., and several players throughout the season. Add to that the insights of reporters who not only had a first row view but also had info from on and off the record discussions with players and FO, and what we do know is actually comprehensive enough. Michael C. Wright had an insightful podcast about various aspects of the prolonged situation and summed it up well: "The Spurs gave and inch, Leonard took a mile." It's not that Spurs are blameless - RC said we all wish we would not be where we are (words to that effect in a post-draft interview), but not all sides should accept blame equally. Like I said before, behaviour over time...

As to the second bold part, Danny actually never said he played on a misdiagnosed groin tear. The context of his comments was understanding why Leonard got a second opinion, because Danny, being competitive and returning too early, chose to play on an initial diagnosis of a groin strain. At the end of the year, it was a groin tear. He said that playing on a strain could have resulted in a tear. In retrospect, he ought to have taken a more cautious route. In fact, Danny retweeted explanations that some media irresponsibly ran with an incorrect headline that he blamed the Spurs for a misdiagnosis - he agreed that what he said got twisted into something he never intended.

It's telling that the stack of reasons for Leonard wanting out followed a pattern of a new one offered as a previous one didn't stand up to scrutiny. Until finally he got what he wanted. And, frankly, so did we.

I'd really rather just move on and focus on our team going forward, but certain inaccuracies still sometimes need addressing. We may not know everything that has transpired, but what we do know should be presented accurately, especially if the parties involved and those reporting it all actually went on record to say it.