Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

[dckingsfan]

It is a terrific deal for OKC - luxury cap penalty reduction and they get Schroder (they didn't have a backup PG and that hurt last year) and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot (who gives them depth at wing with Alex Abrines). Very good for both teams.

[FAH1223]

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[trast66]

I think that’s a real good move for OKC. I guess Atlanta gets what they want as well, but eventually they have to field a team. Tanking real hard.

[dckingsfan]

I think that’s a real good move for OKC. I guess Atlanta gets what they want as well, but eventually they have to field a team. Tanking real hard.

Yep, definitely tanking hard. Guess they will do the same thing next year and continue picking up assets. Doing it the Philly way.

2019 first round draft pick from Cleveland
Cleveland's 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 1-10 in 2019 and 1-10 in 2020; if Cleveland has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Atlanta by 2020, then Cleveland will instead convey its 2021 2nd round pick and 2022 2nd round pick to Atlanta

2019 first round draft pick from Dallas
Dallas' 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 1-5 in 2019, 1-5 in 2020, 1-3 in 2021 and 1-3 in 2022 and unprotected in 2023

2019 second round draft pick from Charlotte
Charlotte's 2019 2nd round pick to Atlanta

2019 second round draft pick from Minnesota or L.A. Lakers (less favorable)
Sacramento will receive the more favorable of Minnesota's 2019 2nd round pick (via Cleveland to Portland) and the L.A. Lakers' 2019 2nd round pick (via Indiana to Cleveland to Portland) and Atlanta will receive the less favorable of these two picks (via Cleveland)

2022 first-round draft pick from Oklahoma
Olklahoma's 1st round pick to Atlanat top-14 protected

2023 second round draft pick from Charlotte or Brooklyn (two most favorable incl. Atlanta, swap, Atlanta or Charlotte outgoing to Brooklyn)
Atlanta will receive the two most favorable of its 2023 2nd round pick, Charlotte's 2023 2nd round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 2nd round pick and Brooklyn will receive the least favorable of these three picks

2025 second round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2025 2nd round pick to Atlanta

[I_Like_Dirt]

It is a terrific deal for OKC - luxury cap penalty reduction and they get Schroder (they didn't have a backup PG and that hurt last year) and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot (who gives them depth at wing with Alex Abrines). Very good for both teams.

I'm torn on the deal for OKC. I get the tax savings, but they're still paying tax through the nose and a longer contract prolongs the pain.

As for Schroeder himself, he seems like a worse Reggie Jackson with a bigger mouth. I'm not so sure that's going to play out well. It might, but it's a heckuva risk to dump Melo. If the Hawks could have dumped Schroeder for free, they'd have done it, so I don't see that as an out for the Thunder unless they make things work.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My entire post was in reference to this year. Kawhi better come to Toronto and play hard this year, even if he's pissed that he didn't get traded to LA.

Next year, he's an unrestricted free agent (assuming he exercises his player option). He can go wherever he wants to go. LA will have the cap room to pay him max money.

I was responding to your suggestion that it would be a bad idea to not play to his full potential or sit out as he would kinda be black listed by teams ala Cousins this year because of the injury.

I could see him not getting the offers he wants and just running to G-Sate to screw over the league.

But why is it good for him to get paid $5.4M when he can sign a 4-year $140M contract? That would be the dumbest decision by a player in league history.

Cousins had no choice. Nobody wanted him because nobody with cap room had a need for a grumpy center with a ruptured Achilles. Kawhi has a choice. Play hard in Toronto and teams will line up this summer with max offers.

Cousins has a bad reputation as a grumpy guy but I think he's a better dude than John Wall

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[dckingsfan]

It is a terrific deal for OKC - luxury cap penalty reduction and they get Schroder (they didn't have a backup PG and that hurt last year) and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot (who gives them depth at wing with Alex Abrines). Very good for both teams.

I'm torn on the deal for OKC. I get the tax savings, but they're still paying tax through the nose and a longer contract prolongs the pain.

As for Schroeder himself, he seems like a worse Reggie Jackson with a bigger mouth. I'm not so sure that's going to play out well. It might, but it's a heckuva risk to dump Melo. If the Hawks could have dumped Schroeder for free, they'd have done it, so I don't see that as an out for the Thunder unless they make things work.

Yes, both OKC and Atlanta would have traded those players for nothing. The alternative for the Thunder was to stretch Carmelo - which would have been worse.

They needed a backup PG and they were light at the wing position - no longer. Both Schroder and Luwawu-Cabarrot are gambles. But in this case good gambles - they can use both players.

I think it will be good for Schroder to step into a position where he isn't the alpha player - not even close. So, it will be very hard for him to be disruptive - and I am guessing that he will welcome a fresh start.

[FAH1223]

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[barelyawake]

I was responding to your suggestion that it would be a bad idea to not play to his full potential or sit out as he would kinda be black listed by teams ala Cousins this year because of the injury.

I could see him not getting the offers he wants and just running to G-Sate to screw over the league.

But why is it good for him to get paid $5.4M when he can sign a 4-year $140M contract? That would be the dumbest decision by a player in league history.

Cousins had no choice. Nobody wanted him because nobody with cap room had a need for a grumpy center with a ruptured Achilles. Kawhi has a choice. Play hard in Toronto and teams will line up this summer with max offers.

Cousins has a bad reputation as a grumpy guy but I think he's a better dude than John Wall

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Your analysis of Wall is skin deep. Much like what is done with Cousins. Both are good guys who want to win ball games, and thought they were helping, but choose poor methods. Both will continue to mature and learn from their mistakes, and realize better methods.

[Rafael122]

I think that’s a real good move for OKC. I guess Atlanta gets what they want as well, but eventually they have to field a team. Tanking real hard.

Yep, definitely tanking hard. Guess they will do the same thing next year and continue picking up assets. Doing it the Philly way.

2019 first round draft pick from Cleveland
Cleveland's 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 1-10 in 2019 and 1-10 in 2020; if Cleveland has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Atlanta by 2020, then Cleveland will instead convey its 2021 2nd round pick and 2022 2nd round pick to Atlanta

2019 first round draft pick from Dallas
Dallas' 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 1-5 in 2019, 1-5 in 2020, 1-3 in 2021 and 1-3 in 2022 and unprotected in 2023

2019 second round draft pick from Charlotte
Charlotte's 2019 2nd round pick to Atlanta

2019 second round draft pick from Minnesota or L.A. Lakers (less favorable)
Sacramento will receive the more favorable of Minnesota's 2019 2nd round pick (via Cleveland to Portland) and the L.A. Lakers' 2019 2nd round pick (via Indiana to Cleveland to Portland) and Atlanta will receive the less favorable of these two picks (via Cleveland)

2022 first-round draft pick from Oklahoma
Olklahoma's 1st round pick to Atlanat top-14 protected

2023 second round draft pick from Charlotte or Brooklyn (two most favorable incl. Atlanta, swap, Atlanta or Charlotte outgoing to Brooklyn)
Atlanta will receive the two most favorable of its 2023 2nd round pick, Charlotte's 2023 2nd round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 2nd round pick and Brooklyn will receive the least favorable of these three picks

2025 second round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2025 2nd round pick to Atlanta

It's going to be interesting how the Cleveland situation plays out. You can make an argument they should just tank to keep the pick but the East is so bad, they might very well sneak in the 8th spot.

[Dark Faze]

Hell no. Cavs are going to be bad.

[FAH1223]

Hell no. Cavs are going to be bad.

Yeah. They can't defend and they lost the best player in the NBA.

I have them winning around 33 games.

[I_Like_Dirt]

They needed a backup PG and they were light at the wing position - no longer. Both Schroder and Luwawu-Cabarrot are gambles. But in this case good gambles - they can use both players.

I think it will be good for Schroder to step into a position where he isn't the alpha player - not even close. So, it will be very hard for him to be disruptive - and I am guessing that he will welcome a fresh start.

They did need a backup pg, but it would have been cheaper for them to stretch Melo and sign a minimum pg or the taxpayer mle. How much better a person sees Schroeder basically defines how they see this trade. I loved Schroeder's game at the draft but since then... He was problematic as a 6th man on the Hawks. He's facing serious criminal charges (and I think they'dhave troublevoiding his contract even if he'sfound guilty since they knew about it before trading for him), and his poor/rash judgement shows on the court, too. This could work out great for the Thunder, but I see this as quite a bit riskier than most, it seems.

[dckingsfan]

They needed a backup PG and they were light at the wing position - no longer. Both Schroder and Luwawu-Cabarrot are gambles. But in this case good gambles - they can use both players.

I think it will be good for Schroder to step into a position where he isn't the alpha player - not even close. So, it will be very hard for him to be disruptive - and I am guessing that he will welcome a fresh start.

They did need a backup pg, but it would have been cheaper for them to stretch Melo and sign a minimum pg or the taxpayer mle. How much better a person sees Schroeder basically defines how they see this trade. I loved Schroeder's game at the draft but since then... He was problematic as a 6th man on the Hawks. He's facing serious criminal charges (and I think they'dhave troublevoiding his contract even if he'sfound guilty since they knew about it before trading for him), and his poor/rash judgement shows on the court, too. This could work out great for the Thunder, but I see this as quite a bit riskier than most, it seems.

Think about the costs for a backup PG against the luxury tax savings - quite an affordable contract then, no? + they get Luwawu-Cabarrot who I feel will improve their with that brand of basketball.

If he is found guilty and can't play the games he is automatically docked that pay (and that too comes off the luxury tax penalty). The perfect case for them would be if Schroder couldn't play the first 40 games (luxury tax penalty wise).

I think the risk/reward matrix is too great not to jump at the opportunity, no?

[Dat2U]

Having watched team sports for more than 30 years, I don't remember too many scenarios where a guy devoid of leadership qualities developed them over the course of time.

It's not unfair to say John does not display ideal leadership qualities. Nothing against that and it doesn't mean he isn't a terrific player. It means we probably should move beyond whether Wall will ever develop those qualities and focus on finding a player that can fill that role.

It doesn't have to be your best player either (see Draymond), he just needs to have a key role to have a real impact (see Pierce).

[dckingsfan]

We have Dwight's leadership skills now

Trust the plan

[verbal8]

They needed a backup PG and they were light at the wing position - no longer. Both Schroder and Luwawu-Cabarrot are gambles. But in this case good gambles - they can use both players.

I think it will be good for Schroder to step into a position where he isn't the alpha player - not even close. So, it will be very hard for him to be disruptive - and I am guessing that he will welcome a fresh start.

They did need a backup pg, but it would have been cheaper for them to stretch Melo and sign a minimum pg or the taxpayer mle. How much better a person sees Schroeder basically defines how they see this trade. I loved Schroeder's game at the draft but since then... He was problematic as a 6th man on the Hawks. He's facing serious criminal charges (and I think they'dhave troublevoiding his contract even if he'sfound guilty since they knew about it before trading for him), and his poor/rash judgement shows on the court, too. This could work out great for the Thunder, but I see this as quite a bit riskier than most, it seems.

Think about the costs for a backup PG against the luxury tax savings - quite an affordable contract then, no? + they get Luwawu-Cabarrot who I feel will improve their with that brand of basketball.

If he is found guilty and can't play the games he is automatically docked that pay (and that too comes off the luxury tax penalty). The perfect case for them would be if Schroder couldn't play the first 40 games (luxury tax penalty wise).

I think the risk/reward matrix is too great not to jump at the opportunity, no?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#13

For certain purposes, 50% of salary not paid to players who were suspended by the league is excluded. For example, if a player with a $10 million salary is suspended by the league for exactly half the season, then he loses $5 million, and 50% of this amount, or $2.5 million, is excluded from certain calculations including escrow and luxury tax. The team does not receive extra cap room which it can use to sign another player.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q107

Unlawful violence (convicted of a violent felony): 10 games minimum suspension.

10 games works out to about $1.5 million in salary which is $750K in lux tax savings.

[FAH1223]

DeRozan ranked 84th among SGs in defensive real-plus minus. Wow. Beal was 53rd. Wall is 35th amongst PGs.

The Spurs lost Kyle Anderson who was #2 among SFs in defense plus minus, Danny Green who was #5 among SGs, and obviously Kawhi.

Dejounte Murray ranked #1 amongst all PGs in the NBA. Rudy Gay was #25 among SFs.

San Antonio is really thin on the wings.

[Ruzious]

It is a terrific deal for OKC - luxury cap penalty reduction and they get Schroder (they didn't have a backup PG and that hurt last year) and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot (who gives them depth at wing with Alex Abrines). Very good for both teams.

Speaking of your namesake, the Kings are the only team left with any significant cap room https://www.hoopsrumors.com/ with 20.52 million. That's just 3 weeks into free agency. If they don't acquire a couple of 1st rounders this season from teams trying to avoid the lux tax, they ain't trying.

[Illmatic12]

But why is it good for him to get paid $5.4M when he can sign a 4-year $140M contract? That would be the dumbest decision by a player in league history.

Cousins had no choice. Nobody wanted him because nobody with cap room had a need for a grumpy center with a ruptured Achilles. Kawhi has a choice. Play hard in Toronto and teams will line up this summer with max offers.

Cousins has a bad reputation as a grumpy guy but I think he's a better dude than John Wall

Sent from my LG-TP260 using RealGM mobile app

Your analysis of Wall is skin deep. Much like what is done with Cousins. Both are good guys who want to win ball games, and thought they were helping, but choose poor methods. Both will continue to mature and learn from their mistakes, and realize better methods.

Don’t put John in the same bin as Cousins.. he’s never punched his teammate in the face or been considered a team cancer by an entire organization